Irish Sports
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03 Jan 15
15:53
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30 Nov 10
The disqualification was inevitable but it was done at the wrong time.
The horse weighed out and in with the same weight so the result should have stood on the day.
Its like a horse running in a race he isint qualified to run in,he would never be disqualified on the day.
The oldest rule in betting is if you can't win you can't lose.
The result should have stood on the day,punters would have got paid out on the day,none of that looking for losing dockets,a 33/1 shot got the race but can you imagine the chaos had the favourite finished second to Sadlers Risk.
The horse weighed out and in with the same weight so the result should have stood on the day.
Its like a horse running in a race he isint qualified to run in,he would never be disqualified on the day.
The oldest rule in betting is if you can't win you can't lose.
The result should have stood on the day,punters would have got paid out on the day,none of that looking for losing dockets,a 33/1 shot got the race but can you imagine the chaos had the favourite finished second to Sadlers Risk.
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Replies: 73
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Is that an an agreement or a disagreement ?
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Disagreement wildman. You simply cannot have horses carrying the wrong weight. Instant disqualification is the only answer. Otherwise you are opening a huge can of worms. The game has enough problems, none being rectified. Highly unlikely Sadler's Risk would have won carrying the correct weight. An extra 4lbs i think. Clerk of scales AND jockey error.
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The Young Master was disqualified after winning a race in Wincanton as he wasn't qualified to run in the race but the bets on the day stood.
Sadlers Risk weighed out and in the same so no problem there,accept he wouldn't have won with the correct weight but they should have disqualified the horse later. All who backed Sadlers Risk couldn't win from the start,that has to be unfair. |
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IMO all bets on saddles risk shud have been void and a rule 4 put in place nearly sure the likes of PP refunded but the on course punters screwed over again
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He had to be disqualified on the day. You say he weighed out and in at the same weight but the problem is that punters weren't aware that this weight was actually four pounds less than what it was meant to be.
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The Young Master scenario totally different in that "the correct weight was carried" even though he was not qualified for that race. Anyone who backed Sadler's Risk should have stakes refunded. If certain bookies want to pay out as a winner, fine. How often does this happen?
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Maybe Chapman was spot on when he muted that his run should have been voided on the day .Basically treating him as a non runner. As you say Wildman if you cant win you cant loose. On another topic arising from racing at Punchestown on Wednesday it was more than a little sickening to see a person recently banned from racing in this country openly strutting about the enclosures. This fellow has brought the industry into ill repute due to his actions fuelled by pure greed with no regard for damage caused by his actions. Has to get 10 out of 10 for pure neck to be fair.
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Elaboration please....
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Should be obvious enough. No great need to name names .
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Fenton?
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Thread will probably disappear soon in any case.
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No
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Must be John Hughes
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Another.
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Sorry I meant other than Fenton.
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It is a poor show that a disqualified person is not ejected from the racecourse. Fenton is allowed to attend until 1st March 2015.
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Would be very surprised if the ex vet was there.
Apparently he has taken it very bad and is housebound,also knows he is public enemy no one in the eyes of the Turf Club. In the Sadlers Risk case the inquiry was called a long time after the race and plenty were already paid out but the few that backed the original second had thrown their dockets away. |
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Must have been suffering a little touch of "cabin fever" on Wednesday then.
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Time for revenge Paddy.....Karma is a funny thing.
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I cannot abide this kind of old bollloxx talk.....this no need to name names horses pisss....
Philip Fenton is not banned at the moment .....and one thing is absolutely certain......the vet was not there.....who the fukk is it so ?...... |
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And another thing .....how the fukk could saddlers risk hold the race.....he carried the wrong weight.....end of story.....and if he did carry the correct lead.....he would not have won.....
Another kilnaskully special from Dan...... |
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Only other person I can think off that was recently diqualified (depends what you call recent) is Eddie Ahern
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He never had a chance of holding the race.Disqualification with SR being treated as a non runner would have been the correct treatment for betting purposes.
The whole concept of double result is alien to what bookmaking should be about...betting on the result of an event.It would be infinitely preferable if they actually laid a bet instead of using double result as a publicity tool to keep the race by race mug punter feeling happier. |
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And apply 20 cents rule 4 in this instance on all winning bets?
I was done for a fairly decent amount on an exchange with unrequited at Wexford last summer, slightly different circumstances but the same outcome. You just have to take it on the chin and it generally evens itself out over a large sample size. |
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I think SR should be a non runner for betting purposes.Anyone who backed him cannot win so they shouldn't lose either.A rule 4 would then be made to winning bets.
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More than slightly different really as unrequited carried the proper racing weight but Colin Keane failed to weigh in. Saddler's risk would not have won if he carried the right weight and it must have initially being a sweet moment for Andrew Lynch with a decent ride to pip Johnathan Burke.
These instances are rare enough and can't see the rules changing. |
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Dunquib won the Punchestown bumper and was subsequently disqualified.
He wouldn't have won without the little help but the punters on the day still got paid. I know its unsatisfactory but what happened was patently unfair,this was obviously a case for letting the result stand and referring it to the Turf Club. You can't keep having this unseen obstacle in racing,it sours the punters. |
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Dunguib would have won the Punchestown bumper with a trailer filled with cement blocks tied onto his tail. Notwithstanding, it has nothing to do with the Saddlers Risk case.
It's really simple what should have happened i.e. SR disqualified with a Rule 4. This should apply to all situations where there is a weight discrepancy (over the allowed guidelines). The recriminations afterwards can then begin with blame, and possible sanctions, being apportioned based on the facts as they stand. That SR would most likely not have won if he carried the correct weight is moot in any event. You must legislate in advance for these issues. I think the punters would be much more sour if they are aware that they can be at a loss in the event that their selection is beaten by a horse who carried an incorrect weight (be it 3/1 or 33/1). |
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I'd accept that TellTheKing.
One thing is certain what happened was wrong,the time delay was wrong and there would have been chaos if the favourite or a fancied horse had got the race. On course bookies no longer pay out on lost dockets for the obvious reasons. |
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There is an error above - obviously i think SR should have been made a NR with the Rule 4 and not DQ'd.
The time delay was very unfortunate and the whole thing poorly handled on course. Under the rules a disqualification was inevitable and it should have been resolved much sooner. Once it became apparent that it was the fault of the clerk then a Turf Club referral was automatic so there was no need for a full-on investigation on the day. It's never happened me but i'd be surprised if I couldn't get paid out on course on a docket I lost. The first step would be to notify the bookie as soon as possible. I would think the bet would be easily identifiable on the printout. If I was advised that it had already been claimed, depending on the bookie and the time delay, I may approach the HRI on course betting official. |
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The winning docket is clearly identifiable and can be cashed by the holder whenever he so chooses.
The new rule apparently is the holder of the docket gets paid,bookies will hide behind that to evade payment. |
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Surely you don't expect a bookie to pay out twice?
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Once would do me.
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What should happen in this instance is.....firstly the horse should be treated as a runner and certainly disqualified.....
He was given the opportunity to run.....the opportunity to carry the correct weight.....what more does he want..... It is surely a prerequisite that the jockey knows what weight his mount has to carry......and as for that idiot Kevin Ryan saying its nobodys fault.....what a load of bawloxx.....it was that gormless tool Lynch's fault.......of course the moron was asleep when he was being weighed out.....eleven stone..eleven 4..eleven 8....sure what harm is the clowns attitude.....whatever you say clerk....because I don't know and I don't care either..... A 30 day ban for Lynch might see him more alert the next day.....and a good kick up the hole as well.... |
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As far as I'm aware they are weighed out in kilograms so it's a bit unfair to say lynch should have known the weight. Unless he knows the exact conversion rate at the top of his head.
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Paulie calls jockeys rodents,castigates them for not being good dinner guests only likes the ones that give him information.
The Clerk of the Scales has only one function to weigh them out and in,that's it yet in paulieshate filled world this gentleman is blameless its all the fault of the brave one,again no mention of the trainer or the valet two more blameless individuals. |
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Correct me if I'm wrong is it not the jockeys valet that gets the weights and saddle set for the weights
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The trainer or rep are usually not far away and will collect saddle from jockey who is weighed out by clerk.
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