77% Favour Gay Marriage According To Irish Times. Wishful Thinking.

Nope I certainly don't know everything DUMBO but I'm 100 per cent sure you are a simpleton.

You fail to grasp that ,those continents you ridicule ,have FAR more educated people in ONE CITY than the WHOLE of IRELAND ..You are a pompous prick and have no real merit in your argument ..

You brought continents into it to try justify gays not been allowed buy cakes.  I am done with you now DUMBO because you have no point to make except troll.  Again anyone who thinks they are superior and should have more rights than gays and thinks that beliefs like that are correct is a simpleton and a moron but in fairness most of the forum already knew that .  So I am quite happy for you to continue to call me a prick DUMBO

Sad thing is ,you really think YOU are superior to these people ,the reality is rather different though ,you have been shown up for what you are mate , I'm sure when you grow up you'll reflect on your passed views and cringe ...POMPOUS PRICk...

My opening post is all that survives and how true it has turned out.

There is now only one view allowed.

The thread is still very revealing,it shows huge intolerance.

So You Think is subtle but throughout his posts are vague threats," these views are going to get you in trouble " " your mindset will have to change " " you are lucky Betfair allowed that comment "

dlarrsonf isint subtle at all,his opening gambit is just an attack on differing views,this is followed by name calling and the labelling of two continents as being backward and uneducated.

The cake story came from the North,a gay group deliberately made an order for a wedding cake from a small bakery whose owners were loyalist and religious,they politely declined and a complaint ensued,it was manufactured ( the complaint that is )
The relevant body heard the complaint and dismissed it.

Marriage is the cradle of our civilisation,it predates our religion.
It has been under attack by the liberal elite for forty years with disastrous results,the subsidising of illegitimacy has been an expensive failure.

The only hope for Marriage in Ireland lie in Clonskeagh,I just hope the liberals will behave in their usual twisted craven fashion when the Imams come out strongly against gay marriage.

I hadn't realised that marriage for hetrosexual couples was being abolished.

I find the "news" in general so drearily depressing this past while that, apart from keeping myself informed, most matters that the meejah wrap themselves into knots over I tend to ignore.

A well-connected political friend describes himself as a "news junkie" and will have everything worth reading (his words) consumed by 9am of a day including organs that I wouldn't wrap my chips in or news channels that help George Orwell maintain his visionary reputation. Personally, I catch the news headlines, pick and choose a few favourite columnists but although I haven't ditched the periodicals that fall on my mat they largely go unread nowadays because the alternative - to be well-informed - is mostly utterly depressing.

The notion of marriage as somehow untouchable or offering a noble institution is merely the fashion of the era. It's hardly worth pointing out that recent history's greatest monster all believed in marriage and its the bedrock of most religions. Anyone thinking that religion isn't second only to "the root of all evil" in today's world is living in cuckoo land in my humble opinion. For every gay couple, you have unwed couples, childless couples, bachelors and bachelorettes so they all be perverse because they don't conform.

My religion is tolerance, something which I aspire to and fail regularly. A lot of people seem to need a cause these days: water, pylons, wind energy, gay marriage (or not), pro-Life, anti-austerity, etc). Surely its better to work hard, play hard and develop interests that keep you amused and invigorated throughout your life than hopping on bandwagons that appeal to some baser instinct that seems to suggest someone else is wrong and I'M RIGHT".

Water charges are no more unjust than parking fines. gay marriage is no more objectionable than men-only priests..........(time to take another lie down)

All marriages in my time were based on a family unit and geared for children,if they didnt arrive so be it.


I thought marriage should be based on the fact you love that person and want to spend the rest of your life with them, with respect back in your day if you got somebody pregnant you where forced into marriage (as to not upset the church) which is no different from the religions you bang on about today

A magnificent post form Royal Acadamey.  Balanced, erudite and thought provoking.  People say the Forum is dying but you have the odd few master contributors.

new approach you would do well to digest RA's words.  It troubles me to see you morphing into Borneo Jnr, a little learning is a dangerous thing, plese re-open your mind to such enlightened sentiments.

The same old mantra from the intolerant Ozymandius.

The liberal view is enlightened,the differing view is summed up by saying a little learning is a dangerous thing.
This sneering jeering superior attitude is what prevails,no other view is allowed,holders of these views are stupid so never any need to engage.

Premier Fantasy wants to blame the church for everything,the concept of doing the right thing was based on concerns for the child.

I'm not suggesting you are a wagon jumper Wildman. In some ways I admire your iconoclasm and you are consistent.

I can see that you might bridle against the gay lobby and I have absolutely no doubt that any child is better for having a mother and father in any family. I don't believe that a "nuclear" mother and father makes life any easier or less difficult but it does make it more balanced for the child and this is important as a young boy or girl develops because the difference between male and female is just enormous and it never ceases to amaze me how different we are.

Gay marriage etc is one thing, personally I am a little uncomfortable with two men or two women adopting a child-this is probably my age and prejudice as I sometimes think this child can be regarded as a "trophy" in some circumstances. Many also are repelled by the notion of gay sex yet, astonishingly, thanks to the proliferation of porn on today's life male gay sex is the pressure-of-choice for young bucks. Is this the pornography industry or the gay lobby's influence? Either way, its fairly disgusting. But, on balance, I would vote for more rights for a minority even though one couldn't depend on the state to compassionately manage adoptions etc

The problem as I see it is total lack of honesty in virtually every single debate that occurs in politics and many areas of social or economic life. One simply isn't allowed to speak rationally (truthfully?) because of these weird mores we have developed and now accept as truth. Therefore, no honest debate on migration, court awards, the insurance industry, water charges (again!), religion, intolerance etc etc all the topics you raise incessantly. My main issue with your contributions is painting issues black or white (forgive the pun) whereas my world is grey and, hopefully, very occasionally a little brighter.

Premier Fantasy wants to blame the church for everything,the concept of doing the right thing was based on concerns for the child.


please explain to me how 2 people who possibly didn't love each other staying together was the best thing for the child?? yes it is best for a child to live with their mother and father but not in all circumstances, if it is a good loving home then yes but I bet many where not

as for the church now don't be talking nonsense, we all know families disowned their daughters if they fell pregnant and didn't wed the father (put in those homes where they not), why was this?? fear of the church, the stigma involved etc................, all to do with a bunch of self righteous gits who a fair percentage where going around touching up young boys

A magnificent post from Royal Academy.Balanced erudite and thought provoking.

Seriously it is a good post and I accept in its entirety its last paragraph which is to say the least fair criticism and sound advice.

, Elton says he is happier now then any other part of his life,

Tough one, I'm sure he used to love a Jimmy saville party

God i think the guy should be in the slammer if he refuses to bake a cake for someone becuase of their sexuality, religion or what ever. Time for people on here to move with the times, give people equal rights and let them live their lives fgs. Anyone notice Richtters is staying out of this argument?

Rocket fingers, it was an old couple who had to since close down their business. Is this far on innocent old people who have their views?

*fair

Does it really matter what these affectionate people do — so long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses!..live and let  live

Does it really matter what these affectionate people do — so long as they don’t do it in the streets and frighten the horses!..live and let  live

No one minds what they do any longer.

Its not as if they are not allowed marry,they just must marry people of the opposite sex.

Marriage has served us well,its a pillar of our society and should not be interfered with.
Its not anti gay as I am against polygamy as well.

Sounds like your off the Mormon christmas card list Wildman, p.s. im not sure if they send christmas cards,but i am sure that they would be against gay/marriage

The wording is out and its terribly dishonest.

All political parties in favour,all papers in favour,all radio stations in favour,all TV stations in favour its going to be like a North Korean election.

It will be like North Korea here too as any good points we make will get deleted.

The one thing about liberals is their demands for diversity are made in such an authoritarian manner.

There will be a financial cost as well as a social one.

Gay couples should under no circumstance be allowed to adopt children imo.
I have no problem with 2 consenting adults taking part in this type of relationship but under no circumstance should a child be forced to have 2 parents of the same s*x.

I would support the church in their right to refuse to perform a marriage ceremony for same s*x couples.
BTW I'm not an "Old fogey". You'd be surprised at how many young people share this view.

I'll be voting No.

Gay  Guy on newstalk yesterday , he said that its not important that a child have a Mother or Father , he said that they didn't need a Mother or Father , that a loving same sex couple was all that was needed , so now its not just about same sex marriage , the aim seems to be the dismantling of the Family unit ...I think people who believe in family life as we know it will come out in force on the day , and put these dangerous ideas firmly were they belong ...

i read an article on some lesbian rights campaigner. she said ofc the gays should have the same marriage rights as straight people but it wasn't a big concern of hers. what she said her and her pals really want is to DESTROY the institution of marriage for us all!

Premier Fantasy,Gut Feeling come up with this risible if two people love each other line,this argument is for schoolgirls and nothing to with government.

What happens if three people love each other.
What happens if one of the two that love each other is underage.
What happens if one of the two that love each other is of a different species.

This if two people love each other argument has to be the poorest of all.

I think I may have seen that movie, Borneo.

There was this man who walked into a bar and says to the bartender 10 shots of whiskey. The bartender asks, "What's the matter?" The man says, "I found out my brother is gay and marrying my best friend." The next day the same man comes in and orders 12 shots of whiskey. The bartenders asks, "What's wrong this time?" The man says, "I found out that my son is gay." The next day the same man comes in the bar and orders 15 shots of whiskey. Then the bartender asks, "Doesn't anyone in your family like women?" The man looks up and says, "Apprently my wife does."

Some laugh listening to Drivetime tonight......they spend half an hour spouting on about trans gender rights and how some one/lad wants their birth cert changed to show he was born a woman ffs and how the EU is backing them ffs

FFS since when did a birth cert become an editable document....

They are on the march , time to put a halt to their gallop , a bunch of weirdos who don't know if they're men or women...Why should it be compulsory to like gays ,some really horrible people in their ranks , also some very nice people ..They will shortly want it embedded in law that we have to love them ..

On the march is right, Wonks.  General Graham Norton is a dangerous megalomania who advocates 'Compulsary Loving of Gays', we cannot let his aggression go unchecked.

There is only one man who can save civilisation from Quuuaaars.  The Bull Mick...he can be the Winston Churchill of our time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npqMPxanj9o

Ozy , your lot have taken a bad line this time mate , some saying Fathers and Mothers not really needed ,as same sex couples can give a child all it needs ..Think that shows your lot up for what they really are ...Can see this causing a lot of reflection by people who might have voted for ye ..Real people ,you know the kind i mean , those who KNOW they are MEN and WOMEN ..They will start to look on your lot in a differant light ...Seems to me ye think WE should provide children for ye ,as you know SAME SEX couples can NEVER do what is NATURAL themselves ..Dangerous days ahead ...

THE bull mick, ....  VOTE FOR THE BULL ..HE SORT OUT ALL OUR PROBLEMS                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCt787qneQw

I wouldn't be up with Irish politics but is this guy Leo Veradkar destined to be Taoiseach?  Have heard promising things about him. 

A Doctor, half Indian and not beholden to the Catholic Church; the perfect man to represent Modern Ireland.  Hot too......

We will be a Mecca for dem der Gays from all over the world when Leo takes power.

Suggest you just lube up and go with the flow wonky, you would make a fine biatch for some lucky guy.

Ozy , I hear you are known as Mr Lube in your chemists ......Ply your trade somewhere else mate ,don't think the forum is really interested in what you do with your rear end , although I'm sure a few of your BOYS will be along soon to trow you a few kisses ...

on j duffy show a while back a man said he was himself homosexual and was against gay marriage and some of his gay friends felt the same but their opinion was not wanted by the media as they didnt conform to the norm

They are pulling out all the stops now,they have even got Mary McAleese on side now.

The tyranny of liberalism is so ingrained everyone is afraid to say vote no.

This thread is a perfect example as all reasoned posts against this referendum have been removed out of fear.

Have the laws on gay adoption been signed off yet?

We really are making tremendous progress as a Nation.  Amazing to think same-sex sexual activity was decriminalised in 1993.

As a buddy of mine in San Francisco's bumper sticker says; Honk if you are Horny!

Just noticed a BBC news item , Gay cure conference is forced to close due to petition , over 40 , 000 signed this to stop preachers trying to help people come to terms with their same sex attraction ..Theres no thanks when you try to do someone a good turn ....

How tight is this referendum going to be?

77% in favour seems a tad optimistic.

Its got so bad for them even Ozy has hadto go out canvassing ...

Reckon this will be very close run thing.

Just from informal chat I'm not getting this overwhelming Yes vote from my circle.

Funny you should say that Applehunter , sister in law just rang , said she's shifted her position and is voting no , only a short head in atm...

Havent paid a whole load of attention to it, but surely Yes is long odds on if polls anything to go by??

Granted, plenty of the 'don't knows' are probably 'no's in disguise', maybe afraid of voicing their opinion, but even giving them 60% of them votes would leave them well short.

I would imagine with this kind of thing, people who want a yes vote are always more likely to vote than those who would actually vote no if voting.

77% My arse

77% My arse

at the moment all the irish polling companies appear to have an urban bias.

powers have their pricing set at 59-41, relating that they have no faith in the polls.


at the moment in the party polling we have sf averaging 22-23 and ff averaging 17-18, I believe these figures may be correct for urban areas(Dublin/cork/limerick) but wrong nationally as I feel ff may be at minimum on a par with sf.

not enough of the older cohort of "redneck dyed in the wool" culchies are included in these polling samples, and hence we get inaccurate polls.

if this referendum goes to a knife edge, then the "shy tory" effect combined with a lazy polling system, may relate that ff are being under-estimated with the general election in mind. for some time I have been tempted by the 5/6 of ppowers on ff getting 30 or more seats, the only thing stopping a punt is I am struggling to see ff win more than a max of 3 seats in Dublin.

one final point, ppowers have a referendum market of the constituency with the highest market..why no odds for Carlow/Kilkenny, as this constituency is bound to have one of the highest turnouts with the bye election on the same day and with a strong rural element to both counties, a no majority has to be a possible here, could be close to the highest in the country.

the last paragraph should read...referendum market for the constituency with the highest percentage No vote...

I think one of the Donegal constituencies will have the highest No vote.

you may be correct Wildman, I assume the highest turnout will be C/KK due to bye election, as I would rate this a rural tending constituency(outside of KK city and Carlow town), a NO is in play, and could be a contender for highest percentage no.

with the catholic church finally rejecting the a la carte approach to its doctrine and firmly backing the no, the late announcement will be the wild card in the referendum. my hunch is rural Ireland rejects the referendum and urban supports, the respective turnouts the deciding issue.

Carlow Kilkenny is a fairly sophisticated part of the country with two large-ish urban centres....can't see that as the largest NO vote

Look further Whest imo.  Or Donegal as Borneo suggests; don't they vote SF up there....I have them filed under 'lacking judgement'.

Still can't believe no one is taking advantage in the discrepancy between the polls and the odds.  Specially with all the blather on here about it going down to the wire.

Lot of talk about the Silent No vote, is there not a silent Yes element...hard to believe being Quuuaaaarrr has become so trendy in such a short time?  One imagines if you are voting Quuuaaarrr in Kilnaskully, you wouldn't be shouting about it from the rooftops?

It isn't trendy Oz,isn't it unnatural in all reality.

was at mass on Saturday evening (yes seriously ) and midway through it the priest read out a letter from the Archbishop about this referendum, was a load of old cobblers if you ask me but then it would probably sway the older more religious church goers

It's not at all unnatural, Pa.

If it was, why would homosexuality be rife in the animal kingdom?

Ah tis really Oz,i don't know would it be that rife with animals, you can't really compare people with animals anyway.

They are the closest reference point we have, Pa.

Take Giraffes, for example.  94% of their sexual behaviour is same sex.

Three quarters of all bottlenose dolphins are in same-sex pair-bonds, and many of them mate for life

Some males penguins have been observed to seek out another male if their female partner has died, and gay penguin couples are often noted to be good ‘parents’.

Recently in Edinburgh zoo, a pair of male flamingos adopted a fluffy grey newborn chick after it was knocked out of the nest by its parents.

I'm unconvinced Oz, particulary with the penguins anyway. Just disagreed with your assertion that it is "trendy" the media has tried to make it so alright.

Worked in Kilkenny City for a summer about 6 years ago, thought it was very affluent, maybe 4th after Dublin, Cork & Galway in those terms.

Absolute tripe.

Homosexuality is not rife in the animal kingdom,it only occurs when there are no females available.

That 94% figure for giraffes is the figment of an authoritarian mind.

Another reason to vote No is a letter in the Irish Times on Saturday,the usual instruction to vote Yes its signed by

Bono
Bob Geldof
Adam Claytom.
The Edge
Cecilia Ahern.
Paul Durcan
Glen Hansard
Sinead OConnor.

All preening preaching hypocrites,always making demands but never leading by example,I think everyone of them are tax dodgers.

You are on good form this morning, Borneo.

It is simply untrue to suggest that gay behaviour animals exist only in single sex situations.

Some of Ireland's most progressve thinkers listed above (with the exception of loon SOC)

My Jaguaaaaaar has broken down in a particularly remote area and I am stranded in roadside cafe.  The locals are eyeing me up and down, not sure they have ever seen a cravat before, I may even be in danger!

You could be 15 again upstairs in The George.

For the record, I never went upstairs!

You have your own demons.

How would it matter to you,its all the one in your eyes.

Deep down you are uncomfortable with the thought hence the needless clarification.

Hardly needless..do you think The George would be happy with the public allegation of underage sex taking place on it's premises?

They broke the law by illegally selling you drink.

When you were 15 homosexual acts were against the law also.

The ethos of the pub was law breaking.

Yes, they broke the law by serving us.  As did any number of establishments.

I have no idea what went on upstairs, you see better informed than me. 

The ethos of the pub was for Quuuarsss to gather for a drink...certainly not law breaking.

There are much more important issues to be dealt with than this quaar referendum, the country is in dissaray, third world infrastructure, the same as regards our broadband and phone service, but the biggest disgrace in this country are the people who vote for them dirty shinners, a group of reprehensible renegades who stand for everything that isnt right.

This is the issue on this thread.

What way will you vote Mincer ?

Im not voting wildman because i dont give  a fukk to be honest. The biggest concern and its the only one i have really regarding any kind of issues in Irish society is them dirty Shinners. I cannot abide them low lifes and everything they stand for, and they are the biggest worry for modern Ireland, a much bigger worry than quaars getting married or whatever they want to do.

The Shinners are calling for a Yes vote.
All the groups you dislike calling for a Yes vote.

Vote No to wipe the smug smile off their collective fat faces.

Vote No to wipe the smug smile off their collective fat faces.


That's not a reason to vote no, just because somebody you dislike is voting one way you don't just vote the opposite. As childish a reason as any

I see my constituency is shortest price of any for it to pass 1/80 for it to pass in Dun Laoghaire

That's rich coming from the man that parrotted the " if two people love each other " line.

I have given many reasons for voting No that last one is in response to Mincer but you really show yourself as humourless.

Wildman getting angry again

Ozymandius constituency as well.

Hope some of the denizens of Sallynoggin and Ballybrack come out and shock ye.

I guess we're just more evolved up here compared

A wealthy area full of Liberals who don't give a damn about ordinary people but are very good on trendy topics.

Gay marriage,extra maternity leave for wealthy women,extra foreign aid,the letting in of a host of migrants but not obviously in Killiney send them lads to Balbriggan.

Its the constituency of many of those dignitaries I cited earlier indeed the address these worthies gave was Killiney.

Killiney is a lovely area alright, nice walk up from Dalkey, plenty of ordinary working class people out this way but they move with the times and are not still living in the dark ages

That walk up from Dalkey to Killiney passes lots of ordinary houses sure isint Gorse Hill a bog standard house.

Great place on a sunny summers day often go for a run up Killiney Hill, some great views if you can hack the hills

Norma , you have some neck giving Giraffes as an example....

Its one thing I must do before I depart,travel on the Dart from Dublin to Greystones.

I am still In awe at the feats of engineering that created that railway line.

Sure get off at Bray and walk up Bray Head (great views again up there) or do the cliff walk around to Greystones - See so much more on foot

My climbing days are over.

I would love to do that cliff walk but would need a fair bit of time.

The sight of you whizzing by could be too much for me to bear.

Norma , you have some neck giving Giraffes as an example

That's quite a good line, Wonks, most out of character.  That's your quota filled for the week.

Borneo, have you considered giving the Red Line a spin, Wonks recommends it to all our visitors.  Bring that trusty rifle with you, fully loaded, with extra cartridges worn across your chest.

I don't know my Capital city well but know enough to know there would be nothing of interest on that line.

I'd say you would know the borough of Dun Laoighaire like the back of your hand.

Its not a rifle,its a BSA shotgun another triumph of British engineering.

Only ever been to Kingstown to get the Ferry.

No real rugby schools or clubs down there that I can think of off top of my head.

CBC Monkstown play rugby as far as I know

mmm, I get confused with the geography. Possibly Pres Glasthule too (complete howaya's as i recall).

Seapoint, possibly.

Yes Pres did as well

It was the Mail Boat in my time.

I thought Blackrock was in that borough.
I think in electoral terms it is.

Blackrock senior team play in Stradbrook which is a 5 minute walk from CBC, close to Dun Laoghaire. Blackrock College is a good bit out between Blackrock and Booterstown.

Yes they're all in the same electoral area as far as I know

I know Blackrock alright.  Never really ventured much further South.

Doubt you VENTURED very much ANYWHERE , though I could be wrong .I'd say you've travelled great distances in your head , with your friend for company .I'd saymost of your travelling is done on here ,the JAG this morning for instance , another figment of your vertile mind ...

here Wildman you should watch Nationwide now, it's all about your favourite place Dun Laoghaire

Rte 1 now primetime should be interesting viewing,

Colm O Gorman is a professional pr1ck who turns every debate he is part into as shouting match of insults. Such an arrogant disaplay by him tonight, at one point he said he couldn't beleive he had to listen to alternative arguments from the no side. Don't think he is a big fan of democracy or debate.

Much more reasoned debate on Vinny Browne now with John Waters and Michael Martin.