Australia v Kingman

What a bookie you are Thickster , can we say you make it pay ...No we can't ...

***k off to bed ya silly old goat. You do not belong on serious racing threads. Even in simplifying a 2 horse match bet, this fool wants to argue! How old are you now sandals?

QE2 will be the place if anywhere as both will nearly definitely run at the meeting. O'Brien mightn't want to expose Australia to a primed Sea the Moon, Treve or Tagrooghda in the Arc and a defeat to a specialist miler in Kingman would do much less damage to his reputation. Gosden says this will be Kingman's final target for the year and reading between the lines, it will be the last time he runs.

He'll be completely proven at 10 when he takes our Champion stakes and if they are feeling adventurous, it would be lovely to think they might try and shoot the lights out against kingman in the mile. More likely they will run in the Ascot Champion Stakes against inferiors and horses drained by the Arc.

For what its worth, Australia v Kingman over a mile would be very close and given the way Australia settles and then travels, I could see him keeping tabs on Kingman early and then outlasting him in the final half-furlong granted a good pace. There was a hint of the Sea the Stars about Australia today in way he did just enough.

Kingman is spectacular, but Toronado is the only real horse he has beaten so far and despite what Richard Hughes says, I'm not convinced by anything he has done this year and would think Australia could have won any of the races Kingman has taken in since the Guineas.

One other thing about Australia and it seems to be an element of all good horses but especially Galileos, they all seem to run through the line hard (even in the Derby I thought he was kind of idling). A good one to have onside in a battle.

Now over a mile, at say Ascot's QE 4-5 Kingman 5-4 Australia. Obviously, distance is key in pricing up......

Now the price is right THickster...

Unfortunately you are not

The only bookie in the world that can't win eh....

Wouldn't have a bet on the outcome I'd say Slicker, but I'd obviously say the 13/8 they were offering for the match on Australia today  on C4 was a bit big. Kingman was 4/9, can't remember who the bookie was.

Yeah 13-8 Australia far far too big neill, even allowing for Kingman being a specialist miler.

fooking brilliant ...Yeah to big...

One of those "if you could do that type of bet 100 times, you'd be up", but as a one off, would look a bit of a bad risk to me. You could possibly find a 13/8 shot in a maiden some time this week you'd have more confidence of collecting on as a one off event.

A prospective clash would be one of the great purists races, Coolmore v Judmonte, O'Brien/Gosden, both with their 'best ever' and the subplot that whichever jockey happened to be beaten, would be nearly sure to be hung out to dry by their trainer afterwards.

Yes indeed. And let's not forget both were beaten in the guineas.... 4-9 Kingman is far too short.

Would rather be the other side of it if push came to shove. Also, I'd say 'the boys' would make sure they were much closer in the betting on the day should the event ever take place, for perception if nothing else.

Thats it Thickster , keep trying you're bound to get the price right , once you keep tinkering with it...

It never will. Kingman a miler, Australia 10-12 furlongs is optimum.

There is very little chance of them meeting,Australia wil win a racecourse gallop in the Irish champion and then head for the Breeeder's cup classic (perhaps take in the English champion stakes).Today was a massive day for Coolmore and despite musings beforehand there was little doubt that they would have them straight enough for the international considering his profile.

Kingman will never race further than a mile,completely different story running to the line to beat inferior opposition over a mile at the Curragh compared to taking on the very best over ten furlongs.

STS and Australia have contested the same races in their 3YO campaign apart from the eclipse/Irish derby.It gives one further appreciation of the sheer brilliance that STS had to think he went on to win the Irish champion and ARC after that. His blend of speed and stamina was truly unique but his temperament and his style or racing allowed him to have a peerless 3yo campaign.

No tinkering with my betting ya dummy. Take your tablets and go to bed, for your own sake.......

Juddmonte and Coolmore are good pals as well, they kept Camelot and Frankel miles apart (who'd blame them) when Coolmore's best middle distance horse nearly always takes in the Juddmonte.

DJ, I'd be satisfied with that campaigning (from the sporting point of view) if they took in the Classic. It is a no-lose once the horse isn't injured in the process. It would be good for the Classic as the race badly needs the boost of a Derby winner taking part.

To be fair, Camelot was barely good enough to be Frankels pacemaker. He didn't beat any horse that Famous Name would not have been favourite to beat. As usual the media paid too much heed to what APOB was spinning them.

I backed Australia today, and was hoping he would sh*t in. But I would have to say I was disappointed. What APOB says has to be ignored. As DJ says, I would imagine he was a lot readier than they suggested. Muk pulled like ****, and the trip was too short for Telescope. TGG ran his race, no more. So Australia can be rated through him only.

Its not a performance that would frighten many. Coolmore don't like their flagship horse beaten before the BC Classic, where excuses are easier, so I very much doubt they will take the mile option against Kingman. And Kingman is any price you want to step up to 10 fur.

On what basis are ye claiming Kingman won't stay beyond a mile,he would stay 10 furlongs in my opinion.

Frankel was in the same ownership,a miler who never raced over less than seven furlongs but was stepped up to 10 furlongs for his last two races.

Kingman is another miler who never raced over less than seven furlongs,they should step him up in trip and take on Australia,its whats racing is all about.