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27 races (and still counting) he lost last season in my opinion . This hold-up riding especially on a deep surface is not the way forward, surely you have to change with the times............
And he is not the strongest when push comes to shove.............
But do they listen?????
Ryan Moore and Jamie Spencer were approached last year about the same opinion and I have seen a slight change in their skills lately.........
And he is not the strongest when push comes to shove.............
But do they listen?????
Ryan Moore and Jamie Spencer were approached last year about the same opinion and I have seen a slight change in their skills lately.........
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Paddy Kiely would be proud of that.
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27 you say?........could we have a list please?
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J.R.In for the defense straight away , How dare anyone question anything that might blight the purity of Irish racing , not on J.Rs watch anyway ....
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Please excuse me Workrider for i've obviously forgotten where i am again....here's me thinking this was a forum for debate.....an arena for original thought...it's just that as Easygold
mentioned a precise number i obviously thought he must have some sort of list from which we could judge for ourselves. Foolish thoughts i know but fear not....tomorrow i shall stick my caps lock on, wander over to the horse racing forum and issue the most snivelling...stomach churning...apology i can muster on behalf of the Irish nation for Fran Berrys actions. How's that Apology of your own coming on btw....need any help?  .. |
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From what I can gather , a forum for one sided debate , nothing WRONG with Irish racing according to YOU ..Now THAT is stomach churning ...
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Workrider with respect think it is a legitimate question JR is asking to see this list of 27 races that Fran lost,no doubt probably a few but 27 is a fair percentage of his rides last season.
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Fair enough Pa , just his defense of all things Irish gets to me a little ...No one more pro Irish racing than myself .. Will have one for tomorrow , one of the lads will pass it on to you...Wait for the attack from you know who...
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Without doubt the worst rider in Ireland without a claim.....is weak as water.....is tactically inept.......and has no brain....but worst of all.....is cocky without the ability to back it up.......
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Mmmmmmmmm,
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Never mind mmmmmmmmm.......where's this list?.....
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Don't mind wheres the list .....give me one horse in the last 5 years that he won on that he shouldn't......just one is all I want....
He loses plenty he shouldn't.....and is invariably out of his ground....spends half an hour in races flapping and trying to change his whip.....he even won a race lately on Thomas Edison and it just got up on the line.....it should have won 3 lengths..... |
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The only people that use him are ones who have an allegiance to JP McManus.....if he hadn't that connection then he wouldn't get a ride.....he was with Oxx who knows his onions.....no connection to JP.....the high road for Francis Martin.....and understandably so....
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Winning a handicap a short head instead of 3 lenths is a very underated talent imo.....
......how many years was he with John Oxx btw.....slow on the uptake is John..... |
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he was second rider with Oxx.....so he only got limited opportunities.....when his chance came Oxx gave him a go for a season.....then he cried halt.....He gave Berry a chance and he wasn't up to it.....he wasn't then and he certainly isn't now.....
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You're spouting a lot of nonsense here Paulie. Fran left oxx because Murtagh was brought in as first rider to the aga khan and he was responsible for the majority of the oxx string at the time. It would have been ridiculous to have one jockey for the aga khan horses and berry riding the leftovers. Fran didn't do that badly the one season he was first rider considering oxx had a very poor crop of horses that year.
I think Berry has done brilliantly over the last few years to be consistently in the top 5 of the jockeys championship without ever having the full backing of a major stable, something no-one else has done i recent years in the closed shop that is Irish racing. |
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Have to agree with all that New approach.....Oxx would have been happy to keep him on tbf.....don't think Fran was too pleased after turning
down the Mark Johnston job to stay with John Oxx though. What 'allegiance' does Mark Johnston have with JP btw Paulie?....  |
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Oxx would not have been happy to keep him.....thats a load of bollloxx.....who ever said that he was offered a job at mark johnstons......he was in his hole offered a job any where.....
Now JR....i am still looking for ONE ride in the last 5 years where he made a difference......and another question name ONE horse that he has ridden outside of handicaps in the last while that isnt in some way connected to JP...... New Approach......the backing of a stable are you serious.....he has a better backing than most stables.....his connections put him on horses that he'd never be riding otherwise.....the reason he gets alot of chances is that the trainers are afraid that they will ruffle the bosses feathers if they tell him they dont want him......did JP buy many of Oxx cast offs since Fran got the gate.......answer no.....did they buy them before that......answer yes..... |
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He has ridden plenty of good horses for good stables, just go on the racing post website and look for yourself. For example, he rode a horse called dutch rose in listed race for david o meara, dark crusader for tony martin, morning post kevin ryanand thats just last year. Prior to that, he rode good winners for jessie harrington inc dragon pulse and bible belt and gordan lord byron for tom hogan on one occasion.
To be honest, I don't think he is riding as well as he has been the last few years but he is still, without doubt, within the top 5 jockeys in the country imo. To suggest that he is the worst jockey riding without a claim is ludicrous and gross exaggeration. |
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Now Paulie.....as if i could come up with a bigger endorsment of his talents than you already have......winning a Curragh handicap by a short head instead of 3 lengths!!!
Put's him right up there with Lester and Scobie imo...... |
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The difference being JR is that when lester and scobie we're doing that.... It was by design and not by accident..... Now new approach you reckon Francis Martin is in the top 5, so which one of manning Smullen Joseph o Brien Hayes foley is he better than ..... Not to mention lordan king lynch and a few others I've forgotten
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Very subjective I know but he is better than hayes, foley, king and lynch imo anyway. King is a 5lb claimer, don't think he is in their league yet anyway. Hayes riding well atm with good ammo, still have fran better though. Definitely better than foley imo. Lynch has a very shady past, hasn't got back to the top table yet, neither will he imo.
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Didn't think retaining a stable jock was the MO of Mark Johnston. I thought he operated some kind of system whereby if a guy got on a horse and did well, he kept the ride. He was also supposed to be notoriously difficult to work with in that he doesn't 'work with' his jockeys. Ever before Greg Fairley was nailed for messing around, Johnston had stopped giving him rides for months because Fairley's mother (his agent) complained that Johnston was sending him south to places like Kempton and Lingfield for 1 or 2 rides when he could have had a full book from outside trainers up North on the same day.
I never heard that rumour re Fran Berry, and to be honest, I think he would be better than 90% of jocks who ply their trade in the North, but if Johnston was ever going to retain a jockey, I thought it would have been Da Silva. Fanning gets a lot of the average yokes that are capable of winning, but if Johnston comes upon a decent horse, it will be Da Silva or Barza in the plate given they would be riding them the following year for Godolphin anyway. |
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One other thing as well, aside from his connections, Berry comes across as a pleasant fella, is presentable and is a good talker in relative terms. That would also be a massive help as plenty of Flat jockeys just do not come across well. we'll put it down to the wasting!!
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New Approach?????? Berry better than Hayes, I`m sure you will change ur mind very soon...........
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People are missing the point here, I`m trying to improve jockey`s with my comments........... he does need to change his skills I`ve seem him ride 1,000s of horses . And if I comment on something i`m not happy with you can be sure it is for a good reason.
J.R List???? that`s a bit much...... but here at two Hurricane Sky and Peggy`s Leg. Paulie????? Thomas Edison is a quirky horse finds little off the bridle, he rode that very well. |
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Neil D, it`s De Sousa....... sorry for been pedantic.
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There's no doubt hayes had a better year than fran last year but if they were both to retire tomorrow, i'd definitely say berry was the better jockey. Hayes rode very well last year, no doubt his confidence boosted by the backing of good yards like deegan, prendergast and oliver. Fran didn't have that last year but if he got strong backing from a good yard, I think he would get his confidence back.
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No problem easygold, no harm in being correct I guess.
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Christ EG i hope the other 25 are better than those two....
......i'm guessing that you mean the Curragh and Limerick runs?...although i'm thinking that you couldn't be!..... |
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Think for the future N.Approach ,what really does Berry offer, that Hayes doesn`t........ . When do you see Hayes in the wrong position?
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When do you see hayes in the wrong position......hardly ever......when is francis martin in the right position.....hardly ever.....
Chris Hayes would wipe his arrse with francis martin......there is no comparison and anyone who thinks any differently hasnt a clue.... |
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There's only one person here who doesn't have a clue if you think you can be so definitive about comparing jockeys. For the record, I think both these riders are very good. But Berry has been doing it a lot longer than Hayes. Hayes had an excellent 2013, but before 2012, nobody would have near the top 10 jockeys in the country. Just look at his strike rate before 2012.
No doubt Fran had a bad year last year and hayes had an excellent year, but I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon on that basis. Hayes had a lot better support from good trainers like deegan and prendergast. Paulie says berry is getting better support than most stables, presumably refering to his connection to McManus, this is nonsense. Berry only rode four horses in 2013 connected to McManus which had a RPR higher than 100. He is riding ordinary handicappers who are being primed for a jumps career in the main through his association with J.P. To suggest he is getting better support than the majority of riders in the country is absolute rubbish and shows who is the one that is clueless. |
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new approach.....the reason he doesn't ride highly rated horses is because the people who know don't rate him.....he gets more than enough opportunities than his ability deserves.....if he was called francis martin hayes he'd be on the scrapheap.....
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Mark Walsh is a fair one.
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yes the national hunt equivalent of francis martin......if there was 176 horses in a race.....he'd still want to be last....saying that if there was an extra half mile in every race he rides in.....hed ride more winners than McCoy.......mark dooesnt look the brightest spark.....and when he rides horses.....he disproves the book by the cover theory.....
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Nice exhibition there from francis martin at the curragh.....fell off one when the stalls opened.....and an excellent booking by JPM......
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Unreal.Like jumping of a tram.
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yes and you will have the same morons saying the horse stumbled.......and that he couldnt do anything about it.....well id like to know when that happened last to any good jockey.....because i cant remember it.....
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Good man paulie. You seem to have a habit of putting your foot in it.
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