Calling Silver

you seem to have a thing for rothwell willy. is there history between you?

Someone on the Curragh who is cheap as its close to home bigwill, plenty of good gallops on the Curragh to work the horses.

Mitch never met the guy but cant believe how many horses he has.  He has some amount of pulled up horses every year and then they win out of no where at 25/1.  Id say he hasnt a clue.  Was going to try and buy Luddenence last summer as i think he is a lovely horse but decided not to.  Think he could be a 120 horse in decent hands.
Just wanted to put Silver on the case of the pulled up horses

Silver is only interested in knocking the ones with the better strike rates. He doesnt mind if connections pull the heads off horses for a couple of years and then bang they queue up in the straight to win handicaps. Then of course if you train on the Curragh you are even better (unless you are D K Weld that is).

Arkle do you think all the ones from Willies yard always run on their merits, be interesting to see how Chiltern Hills performs tomorrow in a grade 2 after his shocking run in a beginners chase last time, good chance Popcorn is a lot better than his shocking comeback run, and I'm sure that Mourad is a lot better than his shocking run last time?.

Silver has willie on the brain

Ya quuueeeeer.  Obsessed is what you are

Arkle seems to think I only knock the big boys, just pointing out that the big boys are no saints either, but to most on here you'd swear the sun shines right out of their perfumed behinds, both the fancied Chiltern Hills and Popcorn were pulled up you know bigwill.

Popcorn wasn't fancied.  Seems to me you only target two trainers.  I have given an example of Rothwell.  Now what is your opinion on him?

well bigwill somebody has to put a bit of balance to proceedings, seems you only target 2 trainers too, Philip and Shark, give them the ammo and they'll do the job.

Well can you  give an example of either improving a few horse they have got off another trainer?  Barneys Honour improved stones after leaving Rothwell!  Can you explain why he has so many pulled up horses?  Deflect Deflect Deflect

I wouldn't say thats conclusive proof, the handicapper gave Barney a stone rise for beating Chestnut Charlie and Doc Hollywood on its first run for Elliot having finished 4,2,3,3 on its previous 4 runs for Rothwell, do you not think that the handicapper was a little excessive with his assessment?.

bigwilly id say there was no buying involved with luddsdenene. you could have probably got him for nothing if you kept him in training with rothwell. he started his career promising enough but won one of the worst maiden hurdles of the season when breaking his duck and has only won one since. thats 2 wins from 37 runs. it would be like trying to buy a win having the likes of him in training.
but maybe he'll run up a sequence now after winning last time out.

QUOTES: Philip Rothwell, trainer of Luddsdenene: All the credit for this goes to my brother Ronan. We had another wind operation done on him and had actually tried everythingwith him, but we put a tongue-tie on him at Down Royal last day and again today. Ronan was afraid of the ground today but he won his maiden hurdle on this sort of ground so it's really about his wind and with the tongue-tie on we got through it.

actually that would've been its 2nd run for Elliot

Mitch I would have paid to get it out of d stable. Won't run up a sequence. Might have with another trainer though

No silver the handicapper was not excessive because he won off 121 in Wexford!

Give them the ammo and they will do the job...is this one of these things you just know as well silver?
I looked at both their training careers recently..Rothwell despite having one of the largest number of runners of any trainer since 2000 has consistently failed to reach a strike rate of even 10%.I think around 5% being the average.He failed to reach a half decent strike rate even in the years when there was a reasonably level playing field with regards trainers ability to attract owners.
Hanlon has a similar strike rate despite having a couple of big spending patrons but admittedly operating in more difficult times.
Having been so unsuccessful over a decent period of time with all the facts to back it up how anyone who has even a cursory interest in Irish racing can make a statement such as you made and expect to be taken seriously on here is beyond me.

Tolmi you're almost becoming my stalker everything I say you disagree with, strike rates are misleading, quality of horse will invariably improve your strike rate yes?.

oh and if you're inclined to run your horses more often than other trainers it usually has a detrimental effect on your strike rate, a horse could finish placed 6 times out of 8 starts but this doesn't show up on your win strike rate.

I'm not stalking you u..its just you are consistently the most irritating poster on here in that you quote loads of fact to highlight your point when it suits you and ignore it when it doesn't.if you read my post properly (which you like to insist on others doing with yours) you might see that I highlighted Rothwell had a very poor strike rate when there was a level playing field with regard owners.This highlights the fact that he was achieving a poor strike  rate compared to trainers who had similar resources back in the early 2000s.
I am perfectly aware that statistics are not the be all and end all but I am equally aware (which you dont seem to be)the the larger the sample size the more accurate they become and in Rothwell's case we have a huge sample.
If you can  look at his statistics on the racing post or Irish racing site and honestly say that you you would have a horse in training with him based on that evidence I will make one reply and not engage with you on here again.

Funny tolmi a lot of your opinions are not based on fact either, you just don't like my opinions because they often go against the grain of the perceived status quo.

Willie and Aidan are geniuses but are they?, this game is as far as I'm concerned 95% horse, you don't have to agree with me, but I often make pretty valid points to backup  my arguments but as always I'm accused of ignoring others opinion when I'm just putting across what I perceive as valid counter arguments.

If you don't want to engage with me anymore well thats your prerogative, but I would probably go into shock if you ever agreed with me on something.

Firstly I see you did not answer the question I asked you(not your first time avoiding a direct question)
Secondly if you can show me an opinion that I had which had not been based on fact then my offer still stands.

Tolmi you're not giving me facts only statistics, yes he has a poor strike rate down the years but how many of his horses in training are cheaply bought with little or no ability that exaggerate his poor strike rates?

Yes the link is out of date but it does tell me that he is well capable if given the right ammunition.

http://www.goracing.ie/HRI/Whats-On/About-Horse-Racing/Profiles/Trainer-Profiles/Philip-Rothwell/

You ridiculed a journalist's piece yesterday on Dunguib yet you expect me to read a journalist's article to back up your argument.Typical double standard from you.

You are very quick to spot a bad run from a top trainer yet any winner this guy has is from a horse that would be pulled up next time and tailed off Another few times and then might win. Judging by the prices they win at he hasn't a clue when they will win but how do you account for the sudden improvement in form???

God tolmi you can be impossible sometimes, where did I ridicule the journalist?, all I said he was writing down what Fenton was telling him?

Bigwill he's no different than the rest of them but when the big boys do it there's usually a hushed silence on here or a bunch of apologists making excuses for them, as I said somebody needs to address the balance.

Silver I would hardly ever say a horse cant win but would be a bit surprised if Chiltern Hills wins tomorrow. Some of these mares races can be a bit funny but she she would have quite a bit to find on hurdle form. She certainly wont be carrying any of my money tomorrow. By the way you never did explain to me how Cailin Annamh, in the middle of her winning sequence, was unable to beat Chiltern at Limerick.

Chiltern Hills shouldn't be within a country mile of Aibrean never mind the fav after that shocker last time.

Arkle as for Cailin Annamh it wasn't quite in the middle but more the start of her winning sequence she did win 4 in a row afterwards.

I don't know Chiltern Hills had some good form in the book anyway.

I did not say that you ridiculed the journalist...I said you ridiculed his piece...two different things.The piece on Rothwell that you referred to contained the same brown nosing and cherry picking of detail that you seem to find abhorrent when it does not suit you.Some cheek by the journalist to refer to his strike rate!1As for your point about placed horses I would pass two comments.. obviously a large number of placed horses in a short spell but over 15 years I doubt they can skew the figures much and also the trainer has a pooroer than average place strike rate also.
You point about cheap purchases may contain some validity but surely in the early 2000s Rothwell would have had a reasonable input in purchasing yet even then he was operating at around 6%..

Tolmi I was questioning the contradictory nature of Fentons comments the journalist was only writing down what he was been told, after the hearing Fenton said it was some wormer that should've been given to another horse, basically saying Dunguib was accidently given the wormer by a member of staff, in his statement to the journalist he said his neighbour in the box next door was been treated with the sheep wormer and all it would take was for Dunguib to lick his neighbours saliva to test positive (yeh right?), you don't have to be Miss Marple to see the contradiction.

So Philip Rothwell is not the worlds best trainer but is he really as bad as some on here make him out to be?.

I was referring to my question at the time about it being non performance enhancing.

Ah Silver sure as you say any clown can train a horse!  Are you back tracking now in admitting that Rothwell is not a god trainer?

Well I think we know its a pretty powerful stimulant that would enhance any horses performance.

God trainer? there is only 2 GOD trainers if you were to believe many on here bigwill, where did I say Rothwell was a bad trainer?

The only person on here who ever referred to God trainers were you!

But we know you have willy on the brain