Fair play to Noel Meade......for leaving Black Hercules win.....

Paulie , be quiet son , you're shining the light on something you really hope will go away , Noels never sighted , Another day maybe....

Del i don't look at those photos , so no point putting them up ...

how do you know its a photograph if ya don't look at it.....jesus Christ no wonder the country is upside down ......when you were a civil servant.....

What ever it is , i just don't bother with Dels stuff , you have a look it might be of interest to you . Paulie how are you feeling about the proposed ESB strike , I'd say you're hoping it goes ahead....

Winner's performance was more in line with what he did in his point than the way Willie said he was working,the run from the Meade horse was just disastrous. Most of what Willie says publicly I'm finding hard to take at face value these times, Patrick(even though I think he was keen on this fella) is usually a better source probably because he isn't as pressed for soundbites as his father.

ESB strike has been sorted out I gather workrider, they've sorted it out with the Labour Relations Commission.

I'd say young Patrick is enjoy himself while daddy's away , having more input now than ever , it will help him along the training route as well...

Neill d  , I bet Paulie won't thank you for that news....

See what i mean Neill , hes getting edgy already....

im going to write to the relevant minister.....asking for wonks to be taken out of retirement......what a loss he is to the civil service......

Neill D i,m not so sure,In fairness to Kevin Ryan(who i,ve often slagged) gave a glowing tribute to B H beforehand,he was described as a plane by him and said Willie regarded him very highly,he said something about HOW he said it which gave K R,s very bullish sentiment which is against his usual style, the Meade runner couldn,t be backed after what he said and did in fact start to drift after being backed.

Pa , again one must take heed of Wildmanfromborneos interpretation of these bumper events ...

meads was backed from 4/1 to 5/2.....but it was the foolish English again.....they never seem to get it right.....the combined forces did it again.......they backed the winner from 1/2 to 4/7......

Hey Paulie cant see your man staying in that job to much longer after today's debacle , they'll be moving him on soon is what i'm hearing .How are you going to make a living then eh.....

Spot on, Paulie.

Meades was backed early,4/1 or 7/2 would be an ew price,might be well thought of but ran a poor race and while he mightn,t be as good as they think he was never really put in the race though ran on a bit at the end.

id say what you are hearing .....and what will be happening.

are two different things.....but then again.....that's hardlya surprise to anybody......the unarmed man talking thru his whole.....

Neil Willie Mullins column on the racing post must be the biggest waste of print space ever.

Everything the guys says is almost cryptic in its interpretation.

But was Mullins actually saying SDC was a non trier today?

"Sir Des Champs (Davy Russell) will be suited by the ground but just might be better over further even though he won the Jewson over 2m 5f. This is his first run of the season and all roads lead to Cheltenham next March."

I'm confused, why did Meade bother running his horse?

Sucker Punch is a four year old was entered in this race not knowing the opposition,he cost plenty and was well thought of but when the word came about the brilliance of Black Hercules Meade decided to give I'm a solo.
You can't withdraw a horse whenever you like,ask your alleged bosom friend Michael OLeary.

The presence of Meades horse ozy meant Mullins horse didn't go off at 1/3

not knowing the opposition

But according to you, Meade and Mullins are in cahoots and deliberately schedule things so that their best horses don't clash.

This time, Mullins forgot to tell Meade how good his was until it was too late?

He waxed lyrical about the horse in a stable tour but never gave Meadie the heads up.......extraordinary what with this allegedly being Mead's best bumper horse n all.  And Mead must never forgotten to call Willie during the week to tell him he had a good one going Sunday.

Perhaps their phone lines were down all week?  That would explain it!

Ok, Greaser, so now, rather than avoid each other, they make sure their best horses clash in order to try and help boost prices?...No matter what they do...the conspiracy is proven

Meade might as well give up the game if he is reduced to doing that with allegedly his best bumper hoss.

You have missed the point,it was a four year old bumper when Meade entered him he hadn't multiple entries,he didnt know the opposition.

This race was so remarkable that Keen Leader drew attention to it,he knew from point to points these were good animals,he expected fireworks there wasn't because one side funked it.

He didnt know the opposition

Some conspiracy!  Meticulous coordination and planning that the Keystone Cops would be proud of!

apologies Wildman......a perfectly reasonable explanation......I thought when a horse went from 9/4 to 6/4 on the show.....then there had been money for it.....but apparently sizing Brisbane drifted......how wrong can you be.......and today sucker punch goes from 4/1 to 5/2 and again is unbacked......all the stable back the winner......
its getting harder and harder to read the markets......although in fairness to Wildman.....he did spot sizing drift from 9/4 to 6/4.....I don't know.....us mere mortals hav no chance anymore.....between expert market readers and paddock watchers....combined forces.....im thinking of packing it up.......
and I don't get the chains thing......what happened there.....offices backing unfancied horses in the ring.....is that what you are saying........

You are being deliberately obtuse.

He didnt know the opposition at the time of entry.

Paulie give me your read on today's bumper.

Don't forget its not just insiders backing these horses, betting shops, betfair, online casual punters all have their say as to how the market unfolds, but the insiders are not unduly perturbed as they know!.

Next time he should chat to Willie prior to making entries.  They are in cahoots after all.

Especially with his best hoss and even more especially if 4yo bumpers are less frequent.

Paulie works for the biggest insider of the lot which is why he will try to rubbish with sarcasm rather than facts my arguments,he has a vested interest.

One thing you can guarantee is his boss backed the Meade winner in Navan,laid his loser in Punchestown,laid Mullins loser in Navan and backed Black Hercules today.

This informal arrangement has been a bonanza for him their main worry is it could be coming to an end with the personnel changes in Meades.

Ozy when War of Attrition won the Gold Cup Conor O'Dwyer a regular on jockey terms had arranged to bring the Gold Cup to Neesons/McDonnells in Mewbridge, a big crowd turned up, but no Gold Cup?.

Conor said he didn't want to take the risk of the cup getting damaged but he arrived with all the Mullins brothers and Noel Meade, not to mention Carberry among others.

So don't dismiss Wildmans theory out of hand because Irish racing is and always will be hand in glove.

Like most sports.

Of course, Irish racing is hand in glove, Greaser.

But you can't keep changing the basic premise of the conspiracy theory to reflect the events.

The premise is that they avoid each other.....Not this time apparently, due to lack of foresight and planning.

now Wildman.....this is my honest read.....firstly no chains bet into the ring anymore in Ireland.....ladbrookes haven't had a bet since the ist of January......now back to the race......
willie mullins introduces a top bumper horse.....working brilliantly.....and a point winner.....its very strongly fancied and coming from an outfit second to none......only opponent is noel meade....who is rating his horse highly.....punters looking in say.....who do I back willie who trains 5 or 6 winners every sunday.....or noel who trains 5 or 6 a season.....who do I back willie.....who has 50 top horses.....or noel who has maybe 1........who do I back .....Patrick who always puts his horses in the right position in bumpers.....or nina who usually will give the only danger a 10 length start......who do I back .....Patrick who rides about 70 winners a year.....or nina who rides about 5......I think the answer to most is fairly clear.....

I'm not sure I agree with you there gant, in other sports they're almost hellbent on beating each other, in horse racing cozy arrangements are I'm sure often met?.

If you read my sentence again I said the chains bet into the exchange.

I wanted your opinion on the race,your opinion on the market is risible as they all backed the Meade horse with Nina riding in Navan.

You are on about these lads socializing in a Newbridge Pub. It happens down our way. Do the Moorefield lads socialize with the Sarsfield lads?.

Of course they do gant, but when they don the jersey they're immortal enemies for those 60 minutes.

Exactly.

I have read the sentence again Wildman......and if you could be as kind as to point out to me......where you said the chains bet into the exchange.....then id be very grateful......
even though you are as wrong as moll bell as usual.....you will be able to come up with some baloney to justify yourself......

" he was a drifter and only shortened when the English race was over with some help from the chains "

Its the English punters on the exchange that influence the market,they have no affect on the racecourse market bar an involuntary one but they do have here,the chains do use the exchanges to shorten horses heck they even own one.

You still haven't given us your opinion on the actual race.

my opinion is crystal clear......when mullins is fancying one against anybody let alone somebody like meade.....there can be only one outcome......meade trains a handful of winners.....a pathetic return for the ammunition he gets......
one thing you missed.....and that's surprising considering how much you are on top of the game......if noel meades was any use then those people wouldn't have got their hands on it......these days smaller owners have no chance.....nor does the English......

Paulie , KNOWS HIS MAN IS ON THE WANE , NO MORE BIG PAYDAYS SOON ....

get into bed ya yoke ya......yer out of yer depth ya numpty......

Paulie I mean the way Sucker Punch was ridden.

They can't buy every horse,he still cost over a hundred grand that despite him being by a sire I think will breed wrong ones Scorpion.

N.H. SIRES LIKE SCORPION  , COVER SEVERAL HUNDRED OF MARES A SEASON , THEY HAVE TO GET THE ODD GOOD ONE ....The way Noels was ridden today told its own story , non as blind as he who Won't see...

sucker punch was ridden the way chancel was ridden......held up.....nina carberry is no longer a force in bumpers......plenty claimers better than her now......
sucker punch cost less than half what the winner cost.....if it was any good.....then jp....gig....ricci...wylie...potts....Henderson.....nicholls....pipe ......jon jo even......would have not bought it......

The big buyers don't get everything right but I take the point.

I don't know about you but I wasn't taken with Black Hercules,think Shaneshill and Royal Caviar would leave him for dead looks a chaser to me.

id say hes a good horse.....very good in fact......briar hill didn't look much in thurles either.....

As Columbo would say, just one final question.

Why did they choose to punt the 4/7 shot rather than the 4/1 shot? Shirley they could just have easily arranged for Mullins's hoss to have a 'gentle introduction'?

Mullins doesn't stop his horses for anyone.

Your question is sad as it shows you are not grasping the thread at all.

The Navan bumper is the best example,here Noel Meade has one of his best bumper horses running Chancol,normally he would hope for a solo but this time he gets better news,Willie Mullins horse Sizing Brisbane is slow and won't win,armed with this information he tells his men to go to war,this filters through to the Mullins punters so they back it also.

They had some amazing bits of luck,it turned out plenty were fancied so the price held up,as it started to go through the floor the English racing ended leaving a host of English punters blindly backing Sizing Brisbane plus the multiples shortening the horse because of mug betting shop liabilities.
There last bit of luck was in the race itself,Another Rattler all but ran out at the bend after the stands when leading,reemerges in last position yet still loomed up looking a winner at the furlong pole only beaten five lengths in the end.

Very good question Ozy. "They" musnt be any good at this scheming or whatever they are being accused of.

Okay you are not alone Arklearkle doesn't follow it either.

While your theory may have had some merit in the past I don't think recent events and your explanations for them help your case.If as you seem to imply every face was on Black Hercules yesterday then who backed Sucker Punch.He was strong on here in the vital part of the betting i.e. the last 5 minutes.He was at that point too short for each way and I doubt the big firms were trying to shorten him either.

one thing is certain.....and no matter what happens.....the Wildman will never ever be wrong.....will always have an answer.....will quote stuff that people never said.....will slander people without any facts.....will do all sorts to vindicate his position.....and then you will have his pal.....mr smiley face....backing him up.....the unarmed man from Tallaght.....
when they are backed and win.....its the combined forces.....when they are backed and lose .....its the clueless sp shops.....sometimes when they clash one or other doesn't try......in other races one or other is withdrawn.....and now they are running horses to make a market for the other.....jesus wept.....I think its time to block this idiot....and I have at last taken the wise decision to block his sidekick.....colonel wonkatonk.....

Wildman the forum would be a duller place without you but its time to throw away the bone or better still put it into that big hole youve been digging and cover it in.

stop beating it wildman,ya boring old fart.paulie has put a saddle on u and is riding u to death!

there is no doubt about it,paulie has got his feet in the stirrups!

get back to the 2000 grand thread!..weres the last 100 going?

ride him cowboy!

stop beating it wildman,ya boring old fart.paulie has put a saddle on u and is riding u to death!

  Yeeeee....haaaaw!!!!!!

Paulie Wallnuts is just protecting his boss which s why he is so angry.

Tolmi knows his stuff so deserves an explanation.

The Punchestown bumper was for four year olds yet the horses involved were well known.
Keen Leader saw the significance of the race from the start,he knew that Sucker Punch was allegedly Noel Meades best bumper horse,he also knew that Black Hercules was highly regarded.
Most point to point followers were of the opinion that the Sucker Punch form was far superior at the time,this was subsequently verified by the victories of the horses that finished behind him in Lisronagh.

Ozymandius asked on the Punchestown thread " who will win the Meade vs Mullins Borneo memorial bumper showdown " incredibly he got a truthful significant reply almost immediately.One Last Chance just replied " Mullins " this poster has the inside track on Noel Meade.

The backers of Sucker Punch were the point to point lads and the ones that heard earlier he was Meades best bumper horse,Paulie Wallnuts boss and Casper Gutman were on the winner just like they were on Noel Meades Navan bumper winner.

This long running theme is nearly bypassed by time now,the decline in Noel Meades fortunes and change of personnel have accelerated it although it was valuable for a time.

I go out on a high note as I resumed laying specifically for this,I got bullion out of Sizing Brisbane and will predict that he will never win a bumper.

Well I can tell you why I backed the mullins  horse because all the talk was for it read Ruby's colum in the examiner Kevin o Ryan said befor race it wud win ohh and by the way sucker punch was fancied and ran bad so you are totally wrong on the. Race but saying as it's urself you will probably turn it round as to you are right hope ya took the advice and backed it but I will not be commenting on any of ur  ramblings again

In Mallow yesterday I was told he was a monster of a horse. Surprised he drifted to 8/11 at one stage considering all the talk.

By the way Meade was in Mallow yesterday. He watched the Punchestown race on the big screen with members of the Grand Alliance syndicate. They had a well backed runner in the Mallow bumper 15 mins later who finished 4th. Backed from 7/1 into 9/2 I think.

Seriously Wildman do you really think the point to point experts and those who heard he was Meade's best bumper horse would be able to shorten him against all the big players??

To be honest I think that while your theory may have had merit in the past WPM has so much ammunition now that trying to keep all his big owners happy is far more important than worrying about avoiding a NM string which is a shadow of former days.In trying to continue to justify your original theory you are clutching at straws to try to come up with reasons that it is still the case rather than accepting the most obvious reason of all which was summed up by the darts analogy earlier in the thread.

Always remember...nothing stays the same and you have to adapt to changing circumstances especially in this game.