How badly must Sir Des Champs be working?

This is only a school around for the horse before Christmas.  He has not got the toe for 2 1/2 miles.  Of course he will drift.

Always thought he travelled that bit better on decent ground and would take him over Arvika over that trip on a passable good surface. Ya he is probably out for a school so. He f ucks around with this horse a bit too much for my liking.

Yer man Arvika is better at Punchestown than anywhere else, though.

How has he f ucked around with the horse?  He had one aim last season and finished second in it.  Would have finished closer if McCoy had not been on it.  Wants to give the the horse a spin before his race at Christmas.  Now the horse will be doing its best on Sunday but cant see it winning myself.  His other horse is a very decent animal in small fields and has had a run under its belt.  I would imagaine if SDC finished a close third they would be delighted with the run.

I would not agree that Arvika is a class B horse over his distance. SDC is a good horse but he fell over the line at Cheltenham.

I thought the ground and McCoy beat him as well in the Gold Cup and had backed him ante-post. I mean he **** him around (poor choice of words on my part) in the sense that the horse often tends to look rusty in his races(as he did in the Lexus last year) a run around in this didn't help him in that last season, and I'd rather see him campaigned more on better ground, maybe run more in England where he might get that.

The horse never jumped well in any race for me last season and while I can see why Willie is doing what he is, I'd like to see him campaigned differently. I'd say the ground wasn't too bad at Haydock given what Cue Card did and would have liked to have seen him in that. But I gather he wasn't ready.

Obviously a Gold Cup second and a Punchestown Gold Cup isn't a bad haul but I just wonder is Mullins so desperate to win a Gold Cup that he is being too easy on him/treating him differently. I thought he'd win a Gold Cup on ground with good in the description. When he jumps like he did in the Jewsom, I can't see much to touch him. He hasn't ever gotten him back to that.

Horse needs good ground as you say.  Rain and McCoy scuppered his Gold Cup.  You can only bring a horse to the boil once max twice a season.  Why would he want to be bringing him over to Haydock to rip the guts out of the horse first time up?  You can take it that the horse has one aim again this season!I too dont think much of Bobs Worth.  Looks like a little rat of a horse to me.  Doesnt travel like a class horse and have never taken a liking to him

I'm no one to question Mullins really and on that surface in the Gold Cup having clambered over every fence he may well have run the race of his life I guess (went odds-on in the run). Was just taken aback by the prices but can see the case for them now. Hopefully they get a relatively good surface for him in the Lexus anyway.

He has always treaded carefully with him going back to his hurdling (handicaps) and Novice Chasing days(Knockfierna having him beat down in Limerick at Christmas). I'll just have to accept there is a good reason for that.

You can only bring a horse to the boil once, max twice a season, where did you pluck that myth from bigwill?

Desert orchid ran 7 times in the 89/90 season winning 5 times and placing twice, which included a King George, Racing Post Chase (when it was a very competitive contest) an Irish national and a close third in the gold cup.

bigwilly,
im sorry but that's a foolish statement imo, about bobs worth?..decent gold cup winner runs no race fto at a track that didn't suit when some of the yards ..so called stars, have run below par fto..sdc is a great horse I rate him..but to dismiss the current gold cup winner as a rat of a horse..well..you're entitled to that opinion..

Very true Silvergreaser , wrapping horses in cotton wool the last couple of seasons, Hen to blame for that , most old style trainers would throw their hands up to heaven , the way trainers train Gold Cup horses today  ...Not good for the breed either imo ...

In this race last year Sir De Champs ran like he needed both the race and a longer trip. I think Arvika is running because the owners wants to and might be a little below this level. Flemenstar will be cherry ripe.

Spot on Santry...

Exactly workrider, Dessie had 70 career Starts, a career spanning from 83-91, Dawn Run had already amassed 35 starts before her short career was abruptly brought to an unfortunate end.

Kauto Star had 41 starts (10 in France) a career spanning from 03-12. Denman had just 24 starts career spanning from 05-11, just an example of how sparingly top chasers are campaigned these days.

The owners had fun back in the good old days.

dawn run has a nice owner as a recall...?!?

The thing with Dawn Run is Kavvie, any horse could die in any race, be it over fences or hurdles, Darlan last season, One Man at Aintree, Gloria Victus Gold Cup, it was unfortunate what happened to Dawn Run in France, but it was just one of those things, the bile for her sporting owner was totally uncalled for, I suppose people are almost pre-programmed to point the finger of blame at someone when all it was was a unfortunate accident.

National Hunt racing has been the graveyard for many a good and poor horse, just the nature of the sport.

Your argument in regards the horse and not the jockey has some merit in that case Silver,but the mare was so good anyone could win on her if they were able to stay upright in the saddle,as far as i remember it got very heated as Miss Charmain Hill who was nearly 60 wanted to continue riding her(shure she won a few times on her in her early career)

You wouldn't see a specially arranged match like we had with Dawn Run and Buck House these days Pa,

Punchestown bursting at seams,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dhai8xzEi0k

A good video Silver,she won that easy.
Back on the topic think Santry also has summed it up very well.

What was remarkable about those days was the amount of people allowed on to the course itself , Dawn  Run nearly ran a few of them down after jumping the last , also on that page from youtube is some of Golden    Cygnets races , well worth a look , a cracker of a horse....

Pa, I agree with Santry as regards SDC probably not been fully fit, but apart from one disappointing run at Cheltenham I think Arvika is well up to this class, I think Flemenstar might be a touch overrated?, although I love the horse only less so now he's been trained by Tony "the saint" Martin

What some on here seem to be forgetting re SDC is , last year this race was run on the INSIDE track which was far to sharp for him ...Tomorrows race will be run on the Main track...I believe that will make a big difference to his chances tomorrow....

You would have to agree with the other part of Santry is saying as well that he was an ever so easy winner of this last year by 5l from SDC and 29l back to Rubi Light,think that could be very relevant also for the reasons he gave.As regard Arvika he is rated 8lb below Flemenstar and 12lb behind SDC,grant he hasn,t much mileage and could be improving still and all. Crabbing him,he made a mistake or two on his last run and though did it well his rivals that day (toner doudaires,texas jack and foill dubh) are not near in the class of his two main rivals tomorrow.Anyway all about opinions and you could well be right.

I agree that Flemenstar will be spot on for the race he won last year, but when he came up against the cream (granted he was never going to beat Sprinter Sacre anyway) but Cue Card in 2nd also well and truly put him in his place.

I think Flemenstar is a really good horse but not quite in the class of the very best.

Flemenstar OUT lame

Jeez, bit of a farce so. I know Sprinter Sacre didn't run in the end so Captain Conan was needed at Sandown, but shouldn't the executive at Punchestown be breaking their arses to have had Captain Conan over for this. Might be time for courses to start paying travel or looking at entry fees....I'm not sure but we aren't attracting them as it is.

neill,
  I really think mullins is scaring the brits off?dont understand why some of ours don't come over?

These carve-ups are a brutal spectacles in Grade 1's, a few one sided beatings carried out by Willie today too as per usual. At least Meade's took the bumper as flagged up by someone here, well done that man, good shout.

spectacle*

The Grade 1 races in Ireland are a shambles.

indeed the graded races in Ireland are a joke atm..and the handicaps impossible..22 runners etc...

There was a big pot today for the taking, the tingle creek, and not one Irish horse took up the challenge.

A real downer that Flemenstar is out. Sir De Champs the best horse but will he be ready. A strong pace would suit but WPM too much in control of this race now and he knows whats what and it will not be shared with the punter. SDC at 7/4 with PP is tempting though.

I think Davy alluded to the fact in his ATR interview ,that he hoped they would run it on the main track tomorrow as it would suit SDC much better...

Mullins gave an update on SDC think it was Weds or Thurs,don,t read too much into them but as far as i can remember he seemed upbeat and no i,m not Santry,s PR man but yet again agree with him as unless fairly unfit ought to see off Arrikva class wise,what would worry me though is Ruby getting away with setting a crawl of a pace and that leaves me out.
Thought the bumper there is another highlight as said on another thread two potentially classy novices coming from the points,the opener in Cork is another race to watch where 105 flat rated Rich Coast makes his debut under rules.Race i was most interested in tomorrow was the 2nd race there though as the bare 8 don,t want a n/r. The Job is Right is not being unkind slowish but stays very well,should love the 3m and even on a literal formline with Apache Stronghold should hold the short fav(accept A S might be improving quickly),books had a bit of difficulty pricing him up and ranges from 3/1 to 6/1,looks an ew to nothing to me if the 8 run.

pa, lots of memories was disappointing lto..(I backed him)but dropped in grade may be the one to beat c.d. winner? 15/8 looks a touch short..6/1 your fancy..

In that"disappointing race" Tony which i,m not sure was it that disappointing and maybe that is his ability,he was beaten 12L giving 3lb with Alechi Inois another 14L further behind the winner Apache Stronghold,as The Job Is Right was 3 1/2L off levels with Apache Stronghold and suited better by further imo the price at 6/1 is plain wrong.

Flemenstar not running really does put a dampener on it.

The usual slight setback.

you may be right  about the race pa,(my pocket talking?)

It was gifted that Cork race when Indevan went,didn,t leave a lot left for him to beat,not enamoured with his form before that,Indevan also provides a line of form to say TJIR and him are similar. Hoping anyway Tony, pity i still haven,t a 356 account.

pa yere as well off they will drive you crazy..if you win once ull be restricted to cents..dont bother..tho hey have a good few free bets for new accounts..up to 225 i think..but if u get restricted itl take u years to use up 225!!

5/1 with pp,see a new crowd there on oddschecker Seanie Mac,see they are based in Kerry,first i heard of them.

yer man from donegal behind it..sean mcaniffs son..boylers by a diff name..same everything as boys...diff colours!!

Thanks Kavvie,was just looking at oddschecker and both flashed with the same price change at the same time so you,re spot on.

and from what i hear they will restrict you as quick as boylers