A few things on my mind lately...

William Buick is a great judge of a horse and well,able to ride.

He rode Gordon Lord Byron for a neighbour of mine got down off the horse and told them to run him in a group 1 race in Longchamp where he would win,the race was not in their schedule at all Buick persisted almost guaranteeing them a win promised he would ride,result an easy first Group 1success for Gordon Lord Byron.


Rich Ricci not buying anymore horses could be a blow to Willie Mullins.

Where did you hear Ricci is not buying anymore horses wildman?.

Darryl Jacob rode plenty of winners for Nichols when Ruby was in Ireland, if the horses are good enough then I think Darryl will be well up to the job.

I was talking to his racing manager at the Curragh on Saturday,I got the impression that he was gone to ground not alone buying nothing new but could become a seller.

Interesting wildman, cheers.

If what you're saying is true wildman, I still don't think it would affect the Mullins operation in the slightest. Worst case scenario, if he was to pull out of the game altogether it still wouldn't affect Mullins as more than likely the horses would just be snapped up by Gigginstown, Wylie, Potts etc and remain in the yard.

Personally think Buick is very weak in a finish and seems a shadow of his former self this season for whatever reason I do not know.

If the horses are good enough silver, Mr Jacobs is the last person I would want to see on board it!

Ricci does not have a racing manager unless you are talking about the self appointed non paid role that JOR has.

He bought Sanctuaire so cannot be too far underground.

nicholls is finished......all his owners dislike him......the ones that are left.......staff gone.....jockey gone.....nicholls gone soon......
ricci wants to buy horses......not sell......buying everything that moves.......bought olivers horse out of Sligo maiden......wanted mullins to be his private trainer.......Wildman talkin gibberish.......

I didn't want to name him Distant View but you have it right.

If he has bought Sanctuaire and Zafaraquabad ( sic) then I am obviously wrong did not mean to mislead.

Jacob has 18 winners from just 72 mounts this jump season thats exactly 25% win ratio, and just a tenner loss if you had backed all his mounts thus far.

He's a more than capable rider but remains to be seen what ammunition Nichols has this year?.

WildmanI heard he has put in an order to buy 30+ new horses.

Silver I can think of at least 20 other jocks in the UK I would have over Jacobs, however bad he is over hurdles, but my word to watch the Jacob in full flight over the larger obstacles is a sight to behold! And needless to say that if you had a few quid on a horse with him on board over fences safe to say that you would need to be watching it behind the couch...!

Your opinion snap not mine, I never found myself behind the couch after backing one of Jacobs.

Of course now that Ruby is gone punters will be watching him like a hawk ready to stick the knife every time he gets beat on a Nichols fancied one, you'll get the usual Ruby would've won on that bull.

Maybe a less than dramatic decline in the pipe line I'd say...Still has the backing of Barbers p2p string coming along each year , plus what he buys himself for his owners..He also has some long term  who buy good horses , maybe not the highflyer of resent times , but sure to have a good if not a sensational one ....

How exactly does he still have the backing of Barber's p2p string? They are all going to Harry Fry are they not, or have I missed something?

Then its me that missed something snap , please expand.....

Most of his owners cant stand him......hes gone as a top trainer.......nobody giving him new horses......no harm either......

Why take Rock on Ruby out of Nicholls yard and give it to Fry if you did not intend to give him more

He had him the year he won the champion hurdle , everyone knew that , you seem to think he'll get all his p2pers , cant see that happening myself ..Barber is the landlord if i'm not mistaken , so he'd want Paul to do well ...I'm afraid your point is maybe a little up in the air ...there again maybe i've got it wrong , not taken much notice of n/hunt just yet ....

He did not take Rock on Ruby from the yard (in reality that is).

Fry was in charge of the second yard when he was there and that is where ROR was trained.

Nicholls had practically nothing to do with the training of ROR so he has not exactly lost him.

Nicholls simply doesnt have the firepower anymore simple as that.

No more Ruby, no new big spending owners, and losing big spending existing owners.

No real flagship horse either.

Its only one direction I can see that operation going this season and it aint up!!

So its only your opinion then that Fry will get Barbers horses...Not official , He wont go down without a fight thats for sure , Ruby coming to terms with time I think ..Noting lasts forever ...

can ya post in English wonks......finding it hard to understand wonkish........

God bless PAULIE....

Heading off for a game of golf in the afternoon , just in case i forget , God bless you Paulie....

ruby coming to terms with time I think......did he buy a new watch wonks........

ya will be some player when yer big wonks.......

It means he is growing old and now has a young family so no longer wants the endless travel.

Ruby just fed up traveling I'd say, Its Paul Townend who will be the big loser here.

paul nicholls may not have the star horse of old but he,s been buying in france and in Ireland..he,ll still have 100...in his yard..Henderson is number one without doubt ..but to say nicholls is finished is a touch premature imo..graham roach has just bought 5 one of which cost 90.000, plus he has a number of young horses to run ...I have to agree with silver..ruby is fed up with the travel..plus he does have a young family..and he,s not getting any younger..

90,000 ain't much these days tony when you look at what he is competing against. I'd say Henderson wouldn't take a horse that cost less than 100k and Mullins is probably similar these times unless he sees something in the horse.

You've even the likes of McCain taking 60k horses (that placed in big handicaps) out of Cumanis yard as seen earlier this week and barely even bothering to school them, running them at places like Newton Abbot. If he is using 60k like they are ten-a-penny, what must his owners be spending.

The goalposts have moved. Everything Ruby has said suggests that he thinks Nicholls is a great trainer and has great staff, if he had anything at all, he would have given him the benefit of the doubt and kept going over. Nicholls doesn't have one novice from last season with Grade 1 pretensions.

RUBY THE RAT JUMPING THE SINKING SHIP

Ruby may start training soon,his first move will be to whisk Bubba away from Jessica Harrington.

neill,
I was using roach as a example..he,s got 7 with nicholls..one I believe they rate very highly for the novice division this season(name escapes me atm)..but 90.000 may be peanuts by todays standards but nicholls has 5-6 owners who will pay 150.000 + for horses..im told Anthony Bromley bought 3 in france for him 2wks ago before he went on holiday for one of his owners..never got the amount but I was told 2 of them were pricy.., you right nicholls off at your peril believe me..the  man loved being champ trainer..he still has owners with big pockets..he has 3 for graham wylie,i bet you they cost 200.000 a pop.i know one is yet to be named..but the other 2 were bought in Ireland and france..and you forget BIG BUCKS, he,ll win him a few grade 1,s...as for ruby going..it was on the cards for a while..ruby is fed up with travelling..and with nicholls not having the stars like Henderson..he probably thought the times right to take his foot off the peddle..he won't ride for more than another 2-3 yrs mark my words..

tony, with the greatest respect there is a lot of nonsense in that last post of yours, firstly big bucks won't be winning any grade 1's, because he is highly unlikely to ever see a racetrack ever again. Secondly, apart from Graham Roche, (who has a lot less horses now) you havent been able to name one other big spending owner bar Wylie. Compare that to Henderson at this moment in time and it wouldn't take a genius to figure out that Nicholls is going to have a complete blowout of a season

Cheers Tony, hope he does make it back because competition is good. He's proven a great trainer when he has the ammo.

ammo neil?, so Nichols is only a good trainer if he has the ammo?. So you're all slowly starting to see the light and come around to my way of thinking that humans are only bit players in the grand scheme of horse racing, when they haven't got the ammunition they really are nobodies?.

silvergreaser -whatever body of opinion you imagine is converting to your views on this matter does not -and never will-include me. Why ? Because you're fundamentally wrong.
Apart from anything else -you damage your argument by exaggeration and dismissive insults.
Calling people who organise businesses that involve considerable human, equine and material inputs and outputs 'bit players' and 'nobodies' does violence to the known established facts.
I agree with your main contention regarding jockeys - but trainers are operating at a completely different level of responsibility.
I have stated the reasons many times (as indeed have other posters ) so will not rehearse them again here.

Dismissive maybe, insults no!.

Give me reasons vubiant that I can't counter argue.

Work riders work the horses on the gallops, stable staff muck them out, clean them and groom them, basically generally look after the horses welfare while also cleaning the tack and cleaning the yard as the trainer shouts orders or the head lad, if the horse shows signs of illness you call the vet, your secretary will usually look after entries and the financial side of things.

The only thing I see a trainer doing is observance on the gallops and then deciding how often to work them or how hard or soft to work them, the jockey is on another planet to trainers at least jockeys have a skill its called race riding.

Sorry -there's no ground for debate -you're way wide of the mark. Your 'take' on this topic  is  eccentric, erroneous and reductive to the point of absurdity.
I have no intention of trying further to clarify what has already been spelt out in detail. One might as well try to convert a Jehovah's Witness to Islam.

I asked you a simple question vubiant and you call me dismissive?, tell me what exactly does a trainer do that makes him so special.

I listed most of what goes on in a stable yard and to me the trainer has by far the easiest job of the lot, observance, giving orders and insuring his horse is fit or unfit when its goes to the races depending on his plans for the horse.

Good horses make their job a hell of a lot easier don't you think?, and the same for jockeys mind you.

snap,
john hales,(has 7 with nicholls, paid 330.000 for one last season that has turned out to be a disappointment so will buy more )ged mason,alex ferguson,the stewart family,tony haywood, barry fulton,potensis ltd,robin geffin,john cotton,chris giles(very rich guy indeed)highclere,jered Sullivan,(another rich man)simun munir(has just bought 3 more with him)I think that will show you up..eh snap?...this man has plenty firepower if he can find the horses..he has just as rich owners as Henderson..! Henderson just has better ones..but as I said..don't write him off yet ..

The Stewart family have bought no new young horses this season, highclere only have and odd one, Simon Munir sends all his good ones to Nicky,Ged mason and fergie havent bought any good new young horses in I dont know how long, same applies to haywood, geffin, cotton, giles and sullivan.

Out of interest out of all those people you named could you name just 5 star horses that they own between the lot of them?

the stewart family have 2 new horses with nicholls,..zarkanda, silvinico conti, kauto stone,al ferof,dodging bullets,egardo sol,rocky creek,  shall I carry on?..they are not as good as hendo,s I agree but they have won graded races..and he,ll have new blood..your wrong snap..this guy wont go down without a fight..

how may I ask do you know they don't have new horses?..i know some of them have had stores bought 2yrs ago in nicholls 2nd yard..theres no guarantee they,ll be any good but its new stock?

I've always thought very similarly to you on the topic Sil. It's in my contributions on your various threads.

the only one out of those you named with potential is zarkandar.

kauto stone useless

al ferof doubtful if he will run this season

dodging bullets is a dodge

edgardo sol average

rocky creek one paced

Time to wake up and smell the coffe tony, he in store for a mare of a season

yes niell I personally don't like the man,..i know people who have worked for him and he can be a obnoxious bastard,..but there is no doubt he is a class trainer..his job now is to re stock the yard..my point to snap is he won't have a problem with owners shelling out the money needed..it,ll be finding the horses..as we know mr mullins has been ahead of them in this regard and hendo will also be snapping at there heels..

fair enough snap..would you take a side bet that he finishes in the top 3?

Seeing as you're so confident that he will such a great season, I will lay you a price of 5/1 on him to win the trainers championship if you want?

ha..ive never said he,ll beat Henderson snap...?be fair..you know what I meant..i,ll bet he finishes 2nd again..i,ll have a £50 if he finishes 2nd or better I win..if not you get paid?

tony mate you must think I have dope written across my forehead!

Laddies are the only ones to have priced up the uk trainers championship and they go 7/2 Nicholls with Henderson at 1/5 in what is effectively a match bet, no other trainers quoted.

Now I'm being more than generous offering you 5/1 on Nicholls to win the trainers championship, you can either take it or leave it mate.

hang on snap?,..your saying he,ll have a poor season? surely that means he finnish,s worse than 2nd?

tony, would you listen to yourself, you are talking some amount of baloney

you are looking for someone to lay you even money on Nicholls to be in the top 3...!!

You can either take the more than generous 5/1 I offered you or else run along and stop wasting my time

snap,
I never said he would have a poor season, I never said he has no horses or owners..im willing to back my judgement?yet you are not..you have king hobbs McCain, all with big strings and top owners..who will push nicholls for 2nd..yet you who say he,ll have a crap year wont back your judgement..i never said he,d be champion?..but I said he,ll not go down without a fight..2nd is a great year for nicholls or any trainer..last question were will he finish snap if he has a poor year? 2nd?

Yes he could easily scrape into 2nd after having a poor season, what is so amazing about that.

Henderson will be in a different parish to him though, a yawning back gap to the rest of them fighting it out for second.

Ah I knew it, wouldn't put your money where your mouth is when it came to it...!

Snap Crackle knows his Irish racing but he makes a statement that Paul Nicholls will have a mare of a season when Tony57 responds in reasonable and fair language Snap tried to ridicule him.

Tony57 makes it clear that he thinks Henderson has the better string so far Snap to be trying to get Tony57 to back win only is ridiculous.
What would people's definition of a " mare " of a season,to me it would be definitely not be in the first three in the trainers championship.

Tony57s bet sounds more than fair to me.

thankyou Wildman....independent analasis im willing to abide by..and people know myself and Wildman come from different political codes..but respect each others opinions..so he,s not saying this out of favouring me..its his opinion

There is no market priced up by any bookmaker on certain trainers to be in the top 3 so I would not know how to price this, but I would imagine Nicholls would be long odds on if a market like this existed, certainly no where near evens.

I feel as though I would be in the minority in my thinking that Nicholls will have such a bad season, hence the reason I would not feel the need to offer an all ireland price on him to finish top 3

The 5/1 in the outright market is there for you if you want it, if not then we'll leave it at that.

Can't say fairer that that

The bet Tony57 proposed is more than fair and one I would personally take as I think the price should be around that for being in the first three but considering Snap has spent the whole thread saying how useless Nicholls is and how his horses are no good I would have thought he would be offering 2 or 3/1 about him being first or second.

I won't be taking you up on your generous offer Tony57 as its too fair.

So you would lay me even money on Nicholls to be in the top 3 in the trainers championship wildman yes?

its fine Wildman..i only put up the bet as I thought snap was a touch over the top about nicholls string for the coming year..but he may be right?..its all about opinions...fair enough snap..take care..

hes just expressing his opinion snap.leave it now it was our discussion..Wildman had the right to express his opinion but the bet is between us ..if theres no bet ..then lets leave it at that and agree to disagree..

For Nicholls, coming second and not winning a Gold Cup, Champion Hurdle or Champion Chase is indeed a mare of a season. Those are the standards he has set for himself.

Of the next 3 in King, Hobbs and McCain, I don't think they have the ammunition to trouble Paul Nicholls. However Nicholls is a vastly superior trainer of racehorses to any of them.

The way Hobbs chasers often seem to have jumping issues can't all be a complete coincidence.

McCain seems to be a trainer who trains his horses very hard. I get the sense he trains his bad horses and good horses the same way. Eg. sending out his best horse (a young horse) to the Aintree Hurdle a couple of weeks after he had had a dog hard race with Hurricane Fly at Cheltenham.

I'd say King is a good trainer, but he comes accross as a little dour and I've read owners on here complaining that he doesn't give them the time of day at the races. He wasn't high enough up the tree yet to fall out with Ogden (I'd say PN possibly regrets falling out with Clive Smith too, even if his interest had lessened having won the lot, you'd still want a fella who can go to france and spend 500k on one horse on your side.)

The only horse I can think of that King messed up with was My Way De Solzen who he chucked in too quickly with a peak Kauto Star having won a really poor Arkle.

In summary, Paul Nicholls is miles ahead of the rest of his rivals bar Henderson, but he doesn't judge himself by their standards and is in a different league to any of them as a trainer. he is still the best trainer of chasers in Britain and had the likes of Tidal Bay, Captain Chris and even Cue Card been with him all along, they would have achieved a lot more.

King winning a Champion Hurdle with Katchit was an amazing achievement. It was said that Ogden now only summers in the UK and that is why he cut his jumping string, but I'd guess that Ogden isn't an idiot and realises that it is impossible to compete on the Flat without huge investment, not just the million or so per year that could get you to the top of the jumping tree. He'd still be at it if he felt any fondness for any of the NH trainers he has had horses with.

snap,
according to reports BIG BUCKS has made a fine recovery,(another statement wrong on your part ?)

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/02/paul-nicholls-zarkandar-big-bucks?CMP=twt_gu

Nicholls gives his thoughts on about 80 horses in this. I think his focus this year might be on plotting them up for saturday and Festival handicaps than on Grade 1 prizes. He has great raw material in this regard, he'll have to be careful as in the last few years, it seems that all his horses have to do is breath to get a mark of 140.