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A few things on my mind lately...
A few things on my mind lately...
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Replies: 67
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I asked you a simple question vubiant and you call me dismissive?, tell me what exactly does a trainer do that makes him so special.
I listed most of what goes on in a stable yard and to me the trainer has by far the easiest job of the lot, observance, giving orders and insuring his horse is fit or unfit when its goes to the races depending on his plans for the horse. Good horses make their job a hell of a lot easier don't you think?, and the same for jockeys mind you. |
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snap,
john hales,(has 7 with nicholls, paid 330.000 for one last season that has turned out to be a disappointment so will buy more )ged mason,alex ferguson,the stewart family,tony haywood, barry fulton,potensis ltd,robin geffin,john cotton,chris giles(very rich guy indeed)highclere,jered Sullivan,(another rich man)simun munir(has just bought 3 more with him)I think that will show you up..eh snap?...this man has plenty firepower if he can find the horses..he has just as rich owners as Henderson..! Henderson just has better ones..but as I said..don't write him off yet .. |
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The Stewart family have bought no new young horses this season, highclere only have and odd one, Simon Munir sends all his good ones to Nicky,Ged mason and fergie havent bought any good new young horses in I dont know how long, same applies to haywood, geffin, cotton, giles and sullivan.
Out of interest out of all those people you named could you name just 5 star horses that they own between the lot of them? |
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the stewart family have 2 new horses with nicholls,..zarkanda, silvinico conti, kauto stone,al ferof,dodging bullets,egardo sol,rocky creek, shall I carry on?..they are not as good as hendo,s I agree but they have won graded races..and he,ll have new blood..your wrong snap..this guy wont go down without a fight..
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how may I ask do you know they don't have new horses?..i know some of them have had stores bought 2yrs ago in nicholls 2nd yard..theres no guarantee they,ll be any good but its new stock?
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I've always thought very similarly to you on the topic Sil. It's in my contributions on your various threads.
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the only one out of those you named with potential is zarkandar.
kauto stone useless al ferof doubtful if he will run this season dodging bullets is a dodge edgardo sol average rocky creek one paced Time to wake up and smell the coffe tony, he in store for a mare of a season |
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yes niell I personally don't like the man,..i know people who have worked for him and he can be a obnoxious bastard,..but there is no doubt he is a class trainer..his job now is to re stock the yard..my point to snap is he won't have a problem with owners shelling out the money needed..it,ll be finding the horses..as we know mr mullins has been ahead of them in this regard and hendo will also be snapping at there heels..
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fair enough snap..would you take a side bet that he finishes in the top 3?
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Seeing as you're so confident that he will such a great season, I will lay you a price of 5/1 on him to win the trainers championship if you want?
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ha..ive never said he,ll beat Henderson snap...?be fair..you know what I meant..i,ll bet he finishes 2nd again..i,ll have a £50 if he finishes 2nd or better I win..if not you get paid?
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tony mate you must think I have dope written across my forehead!
Laddies are the only ones to have priced up the uk trainers championship and they go 7/2 Nicholls with Henderson at 1/5 in what is effectively a match bet, no other trainers quoted. Now I'm being more than generous offering you 5/1 on Nicholls to win the trainers championship, you can either take it or leave it mate. |
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hang on snap?,..your saying he,ll have a poor season? surely that means he finnish,s worse than 2nd?
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tony, would you listen to yourself, you are talking some amount of baloney
you are looking for someone to lay you even money on Nicholls to be in the top 3...!!   You can either take the more than generous 5/1 I offered you or else run along and stop wasting my time |
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snap,
I never said he would have a poor season, I never said he has no horses or owners..im willing to back my judgement?yet you are not..you have king hobbs McCain, all with big strings and top owners..who will push nicholls for 2nd..yet you who say he,ll have a crap year wont back your judgement..i never said he,d be champion?..but I said he,ll not go down without a fight..2nd is a great year for nicholls or any trainer..last question were will he finish snap if he has a poor year? 2nd? |
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Yes he could easily scrape into 2nd after having a poor season, what is so amazing about that.
Henderson will be in a different parish to him though, a yawning back gap to the rest of them fighting it out for second. Ah I knew it, wouldn't put your money where your mouth is when it came to it...! |
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Snap Crackle knows his Irish racing but he makes a statement that Paul Nicholls will have a mare of a season when Tony57 responds in reasonable and fair language Snap tried to ridicule him.
Tony57 makes it clear that he thinks Henderson has the better string so far Snap to be trying to get Tony57 to back win only is ridiculous. What would people's definition of a " mare " of a season,to me it would be definitely not be in the first three in the trainers championship. Tony57s bet sounds more than fair to me. |
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thankyou Wildman....independent analasis im willing to abide by..and people know myself and Wildman come from different political codes..but respect each others opinions..so he,s not saying this out of favouring me..its his opinion
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There is no market priced up by any bookmaker on certain trainers to be in the top 3 so I would not know how to price this, but I would imagine Nicholls would be long odds on if a market like this existed, certainly no where near evens.
I feel as though I would be in the minority in my thinking that Nicholls will have such a bad season, hence the reason I would not feel the need to offer an all ireland price on him to finish top 3 |
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The 5/1 in the outright market is there for you if you want it, if not then we'll leave it at that.
Can't say fairer that that |
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The bet Tony57 proposed is more than fair and one I would personally take as I think the price should be around that for being in the first three but considering Snap has spent the whole thread saying how useless Nicholls is and how his horses are no good I would have thought he would be offering 2 or 3/1 about him being first or second.
I won't be taking you up on your generous offer Tony57 as its too fair. |
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So you would lay me even money on Nicholls to be in the top 3 in the trainers championship wildman yes?
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its fine Wildman..i only put up the bet as I thought snap was a touch over the top about nicholls string for the coming year..but he may be right?..its all about opinions...fair enough snap..take care..
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hes just expressing his opinion snap.leave it now it was our discussion..Wildman had the right to express his opinion but the bet is between us ..if theres no bet ..then lets leave it at that and agree to disagree..
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For Nicholls, coming second and not winning a Gold Cup, Champion Hurdle or Champion Chase is indeed a mare of a season. Those are the standards he has set for himself.
Of the next 3 in King, Hobbs and McCain, I don't think they have the ammunition to trouble Paul Nicholls. However Nicholls is a vastly superior trainer of racehorses to any of them. The way Hobbs chasers often seem to have jumping issues can't all be a complete coincidence. McCain seems to be a trainer who trains his horses very hard. I get the sense he trains his bad horses and good horses the same way. Eg. sending out his best horse (a young horse) to the Aintree Hurdle a couple of weeks after he had had a dog hard race with Hurricane Fly at Cheltenham. I'd say King is a good trainer, but he comes accross as a little dour and I've read owners on here complaining that he doesn't give them the time of day at the races. He wasn't high enough up the tree yet to fall out with Ogden (I'd say PN possibly regrets falling out with Clive Smith too, even if his interest had lessened having won the lot, you'd still want a fella who can go to france and spend 500k on one horse on your side.) The only horse I can think of that King messed up with was My Way De Solzen who he chucked in too quickly with a peak Kauto Star having won a really poor Arkle. In summary, Paul Nicholls is miles ahead of the rest of his rivals bar Henderson, but he doesn't judge himself by their standards and is in a different league to any of them as a trainer. he is still the best trainer of chasers in Britain and had the likes of Tidal Bay, Captain Chris and even Cue Card been with him all along, they would have achieved a lot more. |
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King winning a Champion Hurdle with Katchit was an amazing achievement. It was said that Ogden now only summers in the UK and that is why he cut his jumping string, but I'd guess that Ogden isn't an idiot and realises that it is impossible to compete on the Flat without huge investment, not just the million or so per year that could get you to the top of the jumping tree. He'd still be at it if he felt any fondness for any of the NH trainers he has had horses with.
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snap,
according to reports BIG BUCKS has made a fine recovery,(another statement wrong on your part ?) |
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http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/sep/02/paul-nicholls-zarkandar-big-bucks?CMP=twt_gu
Nicholls gives his thoughts on about 80 horses in this. I think his focus this year might be on plotting them up for saturday and Festival handicaps than on Grade 1 prizes. He has great raw material in this regard, he'll have to be careful as in the last few years, it seems that all his horses have to do is breath to get a mark of 140. |