If you have any contribution to make to the debate at hand, freddie, I am sure would all like to hear it.

Ironically, you erroneoulsy suggested that I entered the debate to have a go at kelly...whilst your own sole contribution to the conversation is to have a go at me?  I don't suppose you see the irony of that?

ozy if i were u i'd try and save a little face by retracting the Cretin remark which you aimed at possibly the most knowledgeable forumite on irish forum

If I am honest, freddie, i cringe with embarrassment every time Kelly comes on the rugby forum to make a point. Cretinous would be a kind descriptin, tbh.

His posts are rambling, at times confusing and typically include an irrelevant annecdote centred around his own playing days.  If that's your cup of tea, then good luck!

Richters, I have any no other username other than itcanbedone (GBP account).

ozy, I'd rather listen to a guy whos actually knowledgeable and wise ramble on for a while than a chap like yourself with impeccable grammar but with not a lot of content to contribute

i don't frequent the rugger forum, I've a good enough appreciation of the merits of kelly and yourself right here

anyway the OP is spot-on. he left out that The Yanks don't win sprint gold medals any more, nor do they dominate boxing as they once did

Kelly 21 Aug 13 19:40 
Ozy , take out Serena , and there are 2 USA female players in the top 30 in the world .  So where's the talent , or do you not look up these things before you post ?  The word nonsense might well fit your claim from what I see .

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Look-up the rankings and you therefore are an expert?.

You also need to look at profiles age, junior grand slams, vs top tens etc.  US have Sloane Stephens and Madison Keys. You'll see them in the top ten when you look in a couple of years time.....Stephens (guaranteed, may be a No.1) and Keys (proabably top 10) , and they have others.

Ask anyone who knows anything about WTA, which player 21 years or younger, is most likely to be a World No.1.......most will say Sloane Stephens (may not happen of course).

I didn't need to look anything up.

Oh, perhaps to add insult to injury......Sloane Stephens the daughter of a former NFL running-back

Don't think its correct to call it a sporting decline for the US in Golf and Tennis. Other countries have simply caught up. Forty years golf was played in America, Britain and Ireland and a few good Aussies. Global game now. Any good eastern European tennis players had to skip off to the states to play.

As to why there are no good Irish lady Pro golfers? Go down to your local club on Lady Captains ?Day, stand by the first tee for an hour and you'll get the answer. (to be fair its changing a bit and in ten years time I think there will be some)

Agree, think Mens tennis at its peak. Outside of Big 4, Tsonga, Berdych, and Del Potro and Roddick (before retirement) are brilliant players. Many of the Top 20 are formidable.......definitely stronger than Borg/Connors/McEnroe era or Sampras/Agassi era.

US will never dominate again......for reasons outlined (just like golf), its more of a world game and its a good thing. Not necessarily a decline. But we won't agree on this

In relative terms their men's game has........wouldn't be too sure about women's tennis though.

But we're only re-iterating the whole thing again.

(1) Its as much other countries catching-up, as much as a decline, golf/tennis in particular
(2) The mis-understanding that US sports fans actually care. They don't, completely consumed by their own sports, and thats all they really pay attention to.

El gato , if you stood by the first tee on most courses in America on mens captains day you would probably endorse Vubiants initial comments re golf . The average golfer in America is rubbish , you only have to watch some of the pro ams from USA on TV to know that .

Their college system does produce good golfers , included among them are a good few from outside nations who often dominate their year --Gmac being a good example when he was in college there . But over the last 20 years , only a few of those excellent college products have progressed to anything approaching the standard of the old time produce like Byron , Sam , Ben , Arnie , Jack , Lee , Tom , Tom , Johnny , Ray , to mention but a few . And before anyone jumps down my throat re relative quality , Ben Hogans course record of 64 set in 1942 was only bettered last week ( by Dufner) in the USPGA major . 71 years ago . With crap equipment relative to nowadays .  James Bruen set the course record in Newcastle in 1939 , never was equalled , 65 I think . A hurler ( from Belfast via Muskerry) playing golf . Course altered for Walker Cup there recently , think 66 is current course record , although the course is the same essentially difficulty wise now as in 1939 . TV people now keep telling you "these guys are good " , keeps up the numbers viewing . Even Tiger in his best year has not beaten Byron Nelsons year scoring average of about 68 for all rounds played in a year--  Byron won every tournament he entered that year  , 11 in a row . 1940's equipment etc .

As I often say to guage quality , you have to examine what they are beating . US tour full of journeymen  .