Magician-Epsom Deby.........Magnier/O'Brien dispute

Magnier would not hold on to many fools.

i backed him on here at 66 after his chester win so naturally i hope he runs but would have preferred if he hadnt ran yesterday. interesting what you say about the handshake i wasnt watching.

Wonder are people taking the non handshake too seriously,didnt see it myself so i dont have a real view. Maybe it was a case of Magnier not seeing it being offered. If there was some sort of split then you would fear for O Brien,but id say its unlikely there is any rift.

Ya Jimeen,I'd tend to agree with you there......AOB is doing a fantastic job there just looked unusual.

Id say Magnier may well have been pished off but that's about it,the pressure AOB is under generally is immense and would imagine JOB's situation increases it.

Why should Gale force ten won the Guineas yesterday?

Magician was the much better horse and fully deserved it imo.

If Magician hadn't run and had been kept for Epsom CR.

http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/10151566/

1hr 18 mins.....He just moves on and shakes JP's hand....Looks as if JM is just being ignorant.

Definitely blanked him,had 2 opportunities close together and spurned both,very odd.

yeah aidan looks decidedly uncomfortable as well.
he really should lay off the mobile phone a bit too. I mean you dont see any other top trainer with the phone stuck to their ears straight after races or in the winners enclosure. It looks a bit disrespectful and maybe magnier was a bit peeved.

i assumed he was on the phone to one of the co owners,Derrick Smith??

In fairness to APOB he ditches the phone when he sees Magner & JP approaching and the snub looks blatent enough,probably a storm in a couple of millionaires teacups.

very strange for sure.agree re the fone.hes on it straight after every race.even when smith tabor and magnier are there.maybe hes ringing his bookie?!!?

i dont think he ditched the phone. he actually put it on loudspeaker.

Never anybody on the phone i reckon just a nervous thing he looks a bag of nerves.
Top trainer tho & Coolmore would be mad to be looking rid if thats the case.

He is ringing his Mammy, isn't he?

a lot of time yes.
you've often heard him say, "howya ma"

it's either that or he is making a reverse charge call to silvergreaser to enquire 'well, what do you think of me now?'

Great weekend of racing and the Curragh looked splendid.I think its pretty obvious now that APoB is just a bit of a rogue. Though imho a likeable rogue. I feel he would have made a reel good actor, as most of the time he's just taking the pi$$. He is top class at what he does,i.e train and place his horses. I'd say he goes home and has a reel good laugh at the side issues, i.e the press and the tv interviews etc., etc., and these little things have become part of the job he has, i.e. to promote the horses as stallions and so on.

I will be very surprised indeed if Magician goes for the Derby as he is proven over 1ml 2f a classic winner at a mile, and the St. James Palace looks his for the taking. After that he would have all the big mile and mile and two races which are far more valuable in terms of the commercial value of a stallion.Magician doesn't need to go 12furlongs, unless they want to risk bottoming him out in early June, and he losing huge value, and I guess one Camelot on your hands is quite enough. Breeders want the speed, and thats where the money is, and the 'lads' know that better than anyone. Also a few years back weren't we in the same position with Ballydoyle with regard to the Epsom Derby, when they didn't know what to run and then one of their best got a fatal injury down at the start.Does any one on here remember that ?. IMHO if you fancy DA now back him tomorrow because with no Magician he's a 4/6 shot on Saturday.............i'd also say that if the Sheik didn't own part of DA, he would be a dual Guineas winner tonight with no thoughts of Epsom.......

Great weekend of racing and the Curragh looking splendid.I think its pretty obvious now that APoB is just a bit of a rogue. Though imho a likeable rogue. I feel he would have made a reel good actor, as most of the time he's just taking the pi$$. He is top class at what he does,i.e train and place his horses. I'd say he goes home and has a reel good laugh at the side issues, i.e the press and the tv interviews etc., etc., and these little things have become part of the job he has, i.e. to promote the horses as stallions and so on.

I will be very surprised indeed if Magician goes for the Derby as he is proven over 1ml 2f a classic winner at a mile, and the St. James Palace looks his for the taking. After that he would have all the big mile and mile and two races which are far more valuable in terms of the commercial value of a stallion.Magician doesn't need to go 12furlongs, unless they want to risk bottoming him out in early June, and he losing huge value, and I guess one Camelot on your hands is quite enough. Breeders want the speed, and thats where the money is, and the 'lads' know that better than anyone. Also a few years back weren't we in the same position with Ballydoyle with regard to the Epsom Derby, when they didn't know what to run and then one of their best got a fatal injury down at the start.Does any one on here remember that ?. IMHO if you fancy DA now back him tomorrow because with no Magician he's a 4/6 shot on Saturday.............I'd also say that if the Sheik didn't own part of DA, he would be a dual Guineas winner tonight with no thoughts of Epsom.......

the sires in europe who have made the big bobs are mainly sires of 10/12f horses such as saddlers wells, galileo and montjeu........the exception was danehill though he was also a good sire of middle distance horses..........this idea of breeders being obsessed with speed is a bit overplayed

JM & APOB , neither would be half as sucessful on the track with out the other. So that proves difficult. JM son in law seemingly is not measuring up.

I've always taught and most know, working for yourself is best. And with aidan being so talented (and his wife and kids), working for themselves would be most fruitful and secure, just take Mr. Bolger for example.

Magnier defo blanked the hand shake, prob for aidan being on the phone to the ma. Which was bad form on both parts really.

From every bit of information we have about AOB that is in the public domain, I'd say one couldn't find more of a gentleman. I couldn't say if there is a problem, but if there is, after the blood, that family is the biggest asset they have, I'd say he knows it as well.

I reckon Jay you have AOB a bit wrong if you think he is a pi$$ taker. I reckon very genuine.

i dont think he ditched the phone. he actually put it on loudspeaker.

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Yeah you're right but he clearly took it down and acknowledged the arrival of JM and pointedly put his hand out which was ignored twice in quick succession,very odd looking in at it from the outsiders point of view.

Had a look at the incident there. I'd have to agree with irish_guy_13 on the incident - Magnier pointedly ignored the handshake and then stormed off when AOB put the phone on loudspeaker. Somewhat ignorant behaviour on both parts really.

Looked at the incident on the player and it looks as if something may be up all right. AOB has always struck me as a decent man and always thanks the horses lad and his staff afters big race wins. Joseph has the same manners and is a credit to him. Like to know what JM's problem is.

They just won a Group one and Magniers reaction in my opinion was low class. He let himself down very badly, ought to be ashamed of himself carrying on like that in front of a live TV audience. I thought he was smarter than that.

Magnier probably p1ssed off Tabor, Smith, Magnier called boys.  We is grown up men innit?

Had a good look at it again and my reading of it is O Brien answers the phone to a woman called Mary and tells her to hold on. Thought originally it must have been his mother,but she is called Stella apparently. Its fair to say Mary isnt the local shopkeeper,whoever she may be i dont know. As he approaches Magnier and McManus he puts it on loudspeaker and goes to offer his hand to Magnier first. Magnier chooses to ignore his trainers childish looking behaviour and after looking down the ground momentarily,decides that enough is enough and makes his way away from O Brien at speed. McManus is left there looking increasingly uncomfortable,and realises that Magnier wasnt partaking in the phone call nonsense and didnt seem overly pleased. JP seems hugely relieved to see Joe Keeling approach and promptly makes his way towards him,leaving O Brien to finish his call with the loudspeaker off. It was a strange incident,to me O Brien was like a young teenager showing a photo of a naked woman to his mates during his lunchbreak. The reaction of both Magnier and McManus was funny,the latter was visibly embarrassed while the bossman himself seemed to be thinking "will you ever stop that carry on with the phone and grow up for yourself".

Jimeen I think you got it spot on.........to me that just sums up what happened very well. A bit childish from the great APoB, got carried away in the moment, maybe.

kincsem have to agree with you about this 'boys' rubbish.I think APoB is just taking the phiss when he says 'the boys'. This kinda foolish talk probably goes down well with the English partners but I'd say not with the two mentioned in the above post by jimeen.
Also didn't APoB say that twas the 'boys' made the decision to run Magician in the 2000gns, and that he wouldn't be able to make that decision.

Arklearkle your spot on there when you say that APoB is genuine, because he is and this I know for a fact. But i'm suir he regards most of the tv+press interviews as a great bit of fun, and when he says listen,boys, sher joseph said ..... all one big laff......

Maybe it was Mary Keeling?

AOB is definitely highly strung and appears to live on his nerves(not surprising the job he holds)but is he really that juvenile??
I would imagine AOB is worth at least €50 million-with all the stallion nominations and his share in the prize  money.
You would think Magnier would have more respect for him considering the job he is doing there and Wachman is hardly shaping up.

Although Magnier is renowned for his stubborness-can't see this developing into a fallout.I wonder does JP hold some bit of a stake in Coolmore since the early days??

I am sure he said Derrick not Mary and if that is the case it would be safe to say he was probably talking to Derrick Smith. He couldn't really ignore that phone call. It doesn't get away from the downright bad manners of Magnier.

Maybe Magnier has suddenly realised after all these years that the nodding Aidan isnt all that he seems?

I wonder is anything in the now hundreds of connections that  now invade the parade ring after all these big race wins. This all started with the whole "Family push" after Fallon left and Murtagh's kids were growing up with APOB's. All of a sudden those kids are now teenagers with friends etc and the whole winners enclosure is a circus now
All the owners kids are grown up so it must be trainers string that are there in such numbers.

I'd say Magnier is sick of that too

why would he get in a huff about it? hes the boss, all he has to do is say dont do it anymore.

Read this interview and you'd get a feeling of control freak written all over it? Aidan that is.

http://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/bred-to-win-1.541335

aidan gets results and the boys are making big bobs with the stud fees........thats all that matters.

brain dead jockeys 28 May 13 00:58 
aidan gets results and the boys are making big bobs with the stud fees........thats all that matters.


If that's all that matters, why can't they all be be smiley and civil in public! They all have ego's too, some ego's as big as elephants. Magnier as the boss should draw up some rules after racing, stating that his employee should not run up to him , smiling chatting to a person he does not know looking to shake hands and embarrass him in front of his friend while every camera in the place is pointing at them.


Its seems to me APOB is having  it both ways, i.e the best of both worlds.

He works for Coolmore training horses, his job. But at the same time he's breeding, trading horses and educating his family on the race track as jockeys. All of this takes up a lot of time as we all know. I'm sure AP is not being paid a 3 day week by JP.


What ever happens or is happening, a lot more people are watching now.

im pretty sure mr smith was on the phone.........why else would someone like JP want to listen..........ye are all making something out of nothing.........magnier was probably playing a little joke

O'Brien was like Fr Dougal with his new toy on loudspeaker..
Magnier was like Fr Ted telling him to go away oua dat...

In today's post Alan Sweetman hints at some disagreement regarding Magician running at the Curragh

So it's not a phoney war then .

99/1 now Magician to run Sat.,

magnier very quick to mention wachmans horse there when asked how good aidan is.
Also im not sure but i think he followed that with "everyone needs alternetives"

he said everyone needs their turn.

Magnier seems to have a be in his bonnet over something. I didnt see him close to AOB again today. Still ,he's too cute to do anything rash.

Magnier want to cop himself on talking about ****g David Watchman.

He be nothing without marrying into it and be half the success if Aidan wasn't around.

David ****g Watchman...get a grip

magnier and co have found the right man for the job and mr o brien can keep doing this for another 30 years.........aidan will break all the records. of that there is no doubt.

Any half trained ape can train horses this nutjob has at his disposal?

They can't ask Sheikh Mohammed.

watching the jackass on tv made me physically sick?, not a stable lad ever learned to put a saddle on a Horse?

Only the goddamn messiah/?

Tis that attention to detail that makes him,Dibidale is obviously before your time.

DW is married to a daughter of John Magnier's iirc !

bullshit wildman, the guy ia a total nutjob how Magnier hasnt dispensed with this guy by now I really dont know?

If Magnier thought for one minute he could do without Aidan OBrien he would be out and Wachman would be in but he is far too shrewd for that.

I have to kinda agree with Wildman here, DW has done very little with what he's got. It's a long time ago DW told a friend of mine to take his horse away as he needed the space for horses coming in, i believe he expected to be the next big thing and it's not really materialised so far anyway. Warning shots being fired here from Magnier here Silver !

Silver i think your the nutjob tbh,You never stop talking absolute bóllocks about the man,

And why do you put a question mark at the end of every sentence,Even when your not asking a question????

He is playing Devil's advocate in a very biased fashion!!

I thought when Magnier referred to others getting their turn that he was referring to jockey bookings.
I thought it was unusual that JOB took it up so far out on a horse that hadn't run over 12 furlongs(though he had looked previously that he would appreciate it,tho the way he finished the final furlong off such a slow pace contradicts this)

I think they had a fair idea that Ruler of the world was their prime candidate yesterday and to a certain extent JOB sacrificed his chance for the proven stayer.

Over all tho what an operation ,from Ballydoyle to Coolmore-attention to detail is key,AOB is there since he was 25 and is going no where.
I have a feeling that the perceived tension stems from the jockey arrangements,let's be honest JOB is just about competent but is seriously untidy and doesn't hold a torch to Moore/Buick/Hughes.

well hughes was shyte on mars yday!

cheltenhamroar, the question mark is if you agree with my opinion?

fine disagree but I find the guy extremely spooky?

I thought that Mars got a horrible ride and could yet be the best of the O Brien brigade.

ruler of the world is the best of the obrien horses that ran in the derby foaled on st patricks day,
couldnt write a better script for a movie. they knew the horse was the best, unless you beleive that rubbish
about them not knowing which one was the best.

dispelled the myth that o'brien didnt know which horse was his best derby horse