Ted Hegarty: Bookmaking profession crying out for new blood

Ihave been in shelbourne for the last few saturdays A, D. and its hard to find any real value with the bookies[ some of them are a joke] the tote no dought has taken a lot of buisness away from TED AND CO but the present times and the lack of funds have a lot to do with the situation at shelbourne. i had a falling out with Ted over a bet a few years ago and have.nt been near him since, but he is right about the future of bookmaking at the tracks.

Am i right in thinking that off course bookies stop taking bets at HX years ago

There is so much new, strategic, innovative and radical thinking required for all these old busted models and it requires someone with a strong vested interest to make it happen.

Its not going to come from jaded bookies scraping a living or in semi-state bodies whose corn is handed to them on a plate every year to run the horse and dog industries.

Nothing changes until everything changes.

Apr 11, 2013 -- 3:26PM, trooper thornton wrote:

Am i right in thinking that off course bookies stop taking bets at HX years ago

correct

was it because they were concerned about the sp of certain dogs or races coming in under 100% ?

sps ^

Ted makes it sound as simple as pie , Well i'm sorry to say , like franko i had a run in with Ted many years ago over my last £40 , I asked for a bet of 40 to win a ton and he refused me , knowing full well i had lost my tonsils with him that night ,I've only had about 4 bets with him since and that's over 14 yrs ago ....Ted has a lot to answer for imo ...I wonder why so many bookies have left the profession ,Yet Ted and his sons continue to flourish ..Maybe he might care to answer that ....

agree totally with workrider.i know something similar happen a friend of mine.the figs were a bit bigger.hes about 50 now and hasnt attended shel park in 15 yrs.he was a 3 times a week man.its hypocrasy of the highest order from our ted.

Are his own sons not young,step down and give them a chance.

I think the degrees he alleges they have are of the Rocketfingers variety.

It is quite extraordinary that Workrider Kavvies friend and Frank all have had problems with him as a good friend of mine had an unholy row with him at Punchestown some years back,it soured him didn't go racing for ages after it.

My problem with Ted was over a dog called soviet merc in the early stages of the derby , me and a half a doz punters rush in to take 9/2 i managed to get e50 on the dog which hacked up, when i went to collect my winnings he made some excuse and refused to pay me,  i went to the stadium manager and after he had a word with Hegarty he agreed to pay half my winnings, as i said in a previous post i never went near him again. and never will .... having said that most of the bookies there that night are gone and Ted and co still remain.
The racing at shelbourne is excellent and over the years staff have work hard to make a good night for all punters big and small, I wish them well for the future.

Once upon a time greyhound racing and betting flourished here in the North ( where it all started track wise initially via Celtic Park --now a shopping centre ) .

In the run up to and including the  2nd world war years attendances of 10 to 20 thousand at a meeting were not uncommon , second highest attendance ever anywhere in the world was at Celtic Park --42,000 approx one night in the 1930's . There were regularly 50 plus bookies on the "inside" , and 100 plus on the "outside" .  Turnover was huge , one prominent bookie I knew was £3000 up after 3 races one night at Celtic , a semi detached house in a good area locally cost £500 then . And it wasn't a final night or anything , just a normal Friday night .

Plenty of money about  , my father had dogs and although it was never discussed at home I suspect he often had bets of up to a grand laid without difficulty . He stopped having dogs in late forties  , family and business considerations the big factor , plus a few unsuccessful punts in a row  , never discussed though , my mother might fill in the blanks now , but it is a long time ago and the world has moved on a lot since then .

So being an on track bookie must have been lucrative then , huge turnover , particularly during the war when the Yanks were about and had money to burn relative to exchange rates etc . Thats why there were so many  bookies, earning a good living , and not afraid to lay because there was a competitive market .The punters had few alternatives , SP bookies were viewed as undesirables by the state here , subject to repeated visits to court  , and regular fines etc and harassment .

All change now , 5 or 6 I hear ( I dont go ) at our local track , one or two bigger punters , the rest just "night out " punters .  Little interest , no media interest or publicity .  Tote used to be big here in 1930's , two of my aunts worked in it in the early days pre marriage and children . State legislation did not encourage it though , too big a Presbyterian influence in government .

Went greyhound racing most nights while I was working in Dublin in the early 1960's , good crowds then even mid week at Shelbourne  , and lesser ones at Harolds Cross .  Plenty of bookies then , and they would take a bet ( not from me , I was not earning enough to be a flambeau punter  , and they were all other peoples dogs ! ) .

But with 24/7 betting facilities and opportunities nowadays , the punters need to have a bet is easily satisfied , it is supply and demand in reverse  , and if you are betting on golf or football or cricket or whatever you have a good idea what the participants have had for supper before they grace the stadium or track  .

Cant see a lot of light at the end of the tunnel , horse racing in Ireland is also such a good product ( generally) that greyhound racing cannot compete on a similar level , and even if the bookies involved in both sports overlap there has been , and will continue to be , fewer bookies standing  in both sports .  The high street bookies dont give a fiddlers about greyhound racing unless its on the box and can generate revenue for them .

Sad , but possibly inevitable .

you should have seen the prices on the 2nd race last night

6/4 2 2 4/5 2 6/4 253% lol

yeah they where Ted's prices on the off, think it was the opening show too

I think Bernard and Farrell where EVS the 3 but don't hold me to that [not that it makes it much better ]

How do you expect anybody to bet in pups races when there is so much information hidden to the bookmakers trying to price the races up. Do you expect them to bet 9/2 the field,is that what you are saying ?. If they bet to 300% and went evns each of 6,no bookmaker would want to lay a decent bet and who would blame them.
As for Hegarty,now this is a unique operator who has stood the test of time,unlike hundreds of his counterparts. I happened to clerk for him one derby final night,and he was and more than likely still is a proper bookmaker. The speed he could call bets at was frightening,as were some of the sizes of the wagers. Its not just all bluster like most of them so called layers,this man will lay monster wagers and still does to this day. He deserves alot of admiration in my opinion,because he has the whole game sewn up nowadays,and workrider wonders why he continues to flourish. It might have something to do with that he works harder than the rest,has better contacts than the rest,has better customers than the rest,and knows more about the dogs than the rest.

Jimeen i agree with all that you say there, he will lay you any bet you want, never had any problems with Ted [or Tadgh or Emmet]. I also agree that i would not want to be pricing up races with limited to no form to go on and dogs improving chunks. I am always picking up for the Shelbourne Park bookmakers on the greyhound forum when people are moaning about them.

However there is no point in them complaining nobody is betting as one of the books did to us last night if they're pricing to 250%

But if they are pricing races to 250% then they are more or less saying that they dont want to lay a bet on these individual races. I made a book myself at the dogs one time and to be honest with you it wasnt the lack of success that forced me to pack them in,it was that i couldnt do both horses and dogs,and the dogs were only a pastime for me really. I wasnt a big winner at them either,because it wasnt high stakes stuff,but i could win enough to pay a few bills thats all. I found though that pups races were never too beneficial to myself,although during the boom it didnt seem to matter that losing a few hundred on pups races really mattered because you had a chance of getting it back with interest later on. Suddenly i could see that people were not interested in parting later on,and quite a few punters only wanted to bet in pups races when they had a second or more in hand.

First encountered the massive overrounds at Tralee track in the eighties , up to then I always reckoned most of the bookies at tracks I frequented were "trying" .  But Tralee was ludicrous , 5 dogs at 2/1 and one rag would have been typical .

So it becomes a chicken and egg situation , no bookie value , no punters .  Or no punters , no bookie value .  A bit like liquidity on here in a lot of markets has deteriorated to ( not necessarily dogs just ) .

Just dont see things going anywhere , pity as our greyhound scene used to be strong economically and provided jobs etc and interest nationwide .  Dead here in the North from what I hear , characters , who once abounded, are few and far between . Few bookies , and some of them I suspect borrow their "tank" from elsewhere on the way in .

WITH odds like that MAX no wonder they call them the 60mins cleaners.

And if the guy who "tanked" you has 6/4 up on his board , you are not going to go 7/4 , are you , not likely .

I only know of Hegarty from the races so accept others opinion on him with regards greyhounds but what can't be denied is he has been involved in countless disputes at the races,it now transpires he has a similar reputation at the hounds.

if ted has a greater knowledge of all the dogs jimeen surely he knows what pups are any good or not?.he could take a huge risk and shove a few of them 2/1 shots out to 3/1??!!?them prices make bags racing attractive and thats saying something.i gave up on dogs 10 yrs ago.price for selling pups collapsed and bookie halved their prices and what they would take.its a chicken and egg as the above poster said.i remember getting a grand on at 3/1 one monday night in limerick about 15 yrs ago and there wasnt much mayhem about it either in the ring.i wasnt in the new limerick yet but im told its very dead bet wise.same prices as the shelb prices last night on most races..

Jimeen my comments re ted were tongue in cheek , The fact is Ted has ruined greyhound racing imo , Think about what he said ,For years I kept a few dogs, trained them myself and had some good winners , Jimeen , Some of them were pups who ran in puppy races the kind you said you disliked laying in ...Ted often stepped from his stool and ran the line backing his own dogs , I'm sure having worked for him you'd know that the sp was almost always returned from his board ..Have a think about that ...Yes he's as pure as the driven snow is Ted....

The dogs are a dying game, and not just in Ireland.

Same story with horseracing.

Take away the huge government subsidy and they might as well turn out the lights.

Anyone under 30 has grown up betting on soccer, rugby, golf and sports like that. Given the overrounds on the Masters (for example) versus the average horse or dog race, who could blame them?

Kavvie,dont be so ridiculous will you please. How can anybody price pups races when they have never been seen in public before. Obviously breeding has a bit to do with it,as do the dogs connections,and then there are their trials. Apart from inside information,the rest of it is pure guesswork.
Workrider,i only worked for him a handful of times,but that is irrelevant to this argument. Nowhere did i say he was pure as driven snow,i dont know too many succesful people in any business who qualify for that description,let alone somebody in a gambling orientated business. Of course he is going to use both his contacts and his influence to help himself,who wouldnt ?. What is wrong with backing his own dogs in any race they were involved in ?. I dont see your bone of contention here,i really dont.
Finally Hegarty seems to invoke alot of envy in the gambling game particularly from the bookmaking fraternity,it seems to irk many that a man could come from the arrrsehole of Cork 30 years ago ,arrive in Dublin and show hundreds of them over that period how it should be done.

Clonmel Produce stakes hoping for 64 entries they only got 15 that shows the decline,they are not even breeding the pups anymore.

If a greyhound bookmaker can't price pup races how do you expect a horse bookmaker to price up an early two year old race.

Much easier to be fair and you know that too.

Surely it cant be right for any bookmaker to own and train a dog and then be allowed to take bets on races where those dogs are running

Only in Ireland

jimeen..Finally Hegarty seems to invoke alot of envy in the gambling game particularly from the bookmaking fraternity,it seems to irk many that a man could come from the arrrsehole of Cork 30 years ago ,arrive in Dublin and show hundreds of them over that period how it should be done.

Jimeen does that include not paying out punters when they win/?

Nom de plumes abound , trooper .  Not just in Ireland . Lots of stories about events like those .  Waiting for someone to own all the horses in a race via various methods and "arranging the result " . Dogs have no jockeys though , so chance comes in .

Will happen sooner rather than later .

Apr 12, 2013 -- 12:23PM, wildmanfromborneo wrote:

Clonmel Produce stakes hoping for 64 entries they only got 15 that shows the decline,they are not even breeding the pups anymore.

wmfb were did u get this information about 15 entries for the produce stakes ?

Jimeens assertion about men coming from Cork and showing Dubs what to do sure that's being going on for years.

There is another point that whilst betting on pup races may be risky Hegarty expected the other bookmakers to accept his bets when he choose to play.

I never saw bookies betting on the opening two year old race in the Phoenix Park betting to the margins previously quoted.

Two things and i must go now,wildman by the time somebody prices an early 2yo race,there will have been prices in betting shops for hours and some kind of market on betfair for up to a day. That is a big help and no such thing happens with any dog pups race. Id say you are wrong about the 15 dogs in the produce too by the way,that surely isnt accurate.
Franksaloran60,about not paying punters when they win,the old saying springs to mind and that is"  there is 3 sides to every story,theres your side of the story,theres his side and then theres the truth"

That's now but Pre Betfair and morning prices they had no problem in pricing them

I am going to do a bit of ancient after timing in that Captain Swan trained an early two year old ridden by his then young son Charlie,we were all on I think his name was Final Assault.

wmfb were did u get this information about 15 entries for the produce stakes ?

Part of the problem for greyhound racing / breeding is the drift from the land / rural communities . The younger people ( probably quite rightly and with the application of logic ) dont want to stay "down on the farm " as much as they used too .  Not when their mates are in USA or Australia or Canada or wherever , no one to walk / feed / look after the dogs . Lots of families here in the north and in the deep south have children / grandchildren in far flung places , walking dogs aint that attractive , particularly if there is no opportunity to make money out of it .

Used to be that a huge number of those in the rural community ( and some in city environments) kept a few dogs and / or the occasional horse out of interest and availability of facilites , and for the "sport" .  Not nearly as prevalent now as in days of yesteryear . Society changes , not always for the better , although I cant blame the young uns , would be following that route myself if I was 20 .

Vis a vis massive over rounds at the dogs picture this

I went to a restaurant last week for a simple lunch

A piece of chicken potatoes broccoli and carrots . A perfectly acceptable meal arrived before and it took all my willpower not to lick the plate. Imagine my horror when they charged me 9.95.
I know for fact the chicken might have cost them 75 cents the spuds 30c and the veg around 50c all in all around 1.55 .
Allow a little for wages and overheads the cost of my meal might have come to e3. That's a mark up ( over round ) of 300%
No job can be sustained without a feasible and viable profit margin . Methinks the dwindling numbers amongst the on course bookmakers fraternity is as much a result of a lack of profit margin as a result do dwindling turnover.

Reminds me of Homer Simpson who on being shocked at the price quoted to do his driveway shouted " you are not the only guy in town" looked up the Springfield version of the Golden pages to see his guy advertising himself as " the only guy in town"

Ted is "the only guy in town"

Extending the logic , yummy , wait till there are only really about 5 "Big Bookies" effectively , one of who owns/ runs an exchange also . Death knell for competition , little variation in pricing structures , ever looked at petrol provision as a model ?  Kill off the wee men , corporates can do what they like .

Who dominates USA business ( and government policy indirectly ) ?

There where 4 heats of the Produce Stakes last night with the other 8 being run Sunday

Anyone under 30 has grown up betting on soccer, rugby, golf and sports like that. Given the overrounds on the Masters (for example) versus the average horse or dog race, who could blame them?

i must be the exception

yes pf,72 entries plus reserves.....dont know how wmfb came up with the 15 entries figure

Kelly

Unfortunately that is the way the betting rings and indeed many other types of business are evolving.

The Internet has sounded the death march for many different areas of commercial activity. The betting exchanges slashed bookmakers profit margins and seriously affected turnover. The mobile phone betting apps introduced over the last 2 years have also slaughtered turnover.

Have you see the exchange add on TV where the guy is contemplating cashing out. There is your post office manger, the social welfare guy, the Limerick solicitor based in Dublin jailed for 4 years. If the drinks companies advertised so aggressively there would be public outrage and rightly so. Yet as far as I know there are no restrictions on gambling advertisements many of which appear on tv during the afternoons or halftimes of sporting matches where a vast number of impressionable aged kids are watching.

never seen any comparison as ridiculous in my life yummy.i wont even try to explain why.you wouldnt understand id say judging by your post.

You probably are , premier .  Most of the punters I see in bookies shops ( though not that often nowadays) are 50 plus , the younger fry appear mainly to bet on soccer on selected days / times depending on "the card" . All TV based nowadays , a puppy race at Shelbourne of no interest to anyone except the owners / trainers involved . Things change . And so do sports interests .

Hope Ted has a good pension fund ( although that has also gone out of fashion for some good reasons  , including annuity conversion rates ) .

Business is business

Profit margins pay the wages
Wages pay your taxes, your bills including the credit/debit card bills accrued here

Without a profitable business there are no jobs unless you are in the private sector

Without jobs there are no taxes and eventually no benefits

Funny ad that with the "cashout" Yummy,he is in the pure horrors over £24,sweat phishing out of him ,the heart goin a mile a minute, the fella in question should give up de ould gambling or he,ll be dead before 40 with a banger.

Yummy was it not always so.

A solicitor in the seventies lost so much money the Law Society had to charge other solicitors a fortune to recompense his clients that was replicated when another solicitor did it on a smaller scale.

Then there are the ones that lost their own money,the Coalminer and the Ham man add to the fact that most betting shops survive on the proceeds of bogus claims and unfortunates running into money.

Pa lapsy

Certainly seems addicted to me
If an alcoholic was shown in a similar stage of addiction with a bit of humour thrown in would it still be an acceptable ad to continuously target a young audience with.

Wildman

It probably was  but surely you can see that there is a epidemic  of online/phone  betting sweeping the country. Next time you go to a pub to watch a match or even just for a summers evening drink have a look around

If a game is on you'll see the young fellas ( almost exclusively) punting in running on their phones. If racing is on same thing. It is 24/7 availability is accelerating the problem beyond redemption.

Before a problem gambler had to walk up to a bookie and place a bet . Now he can be punting away on all sorts 24/7 . There is no end

JIMEEN ..Franksaloran60,about not paying punters when they win,the old saying springs to mind and that is"  there is 3 sides to every story,theres your side of the story,theres his side and then theres the truth"
Your point is a fair one jimeen and all i can say is i would not have involved  the manager of shelbourne park if i thought i was wrong. lets leave it at that.

Its ok for Ted to lament the passing of the bookmaking trade ,  he helped create the vacuum that's responsible for its demise imo....

Was only talking to a friend of mine early who was at harold cross tonight very poor crowd and the bookies were talking very few bets aswell,you got to think is it worth their while there,imagine what it must be like say on the monday or tuesday night

the plain people of ireland dont realise that irish horseracing is subsidised by the governement........the breeding industry was also for decades thru tax breaks.......take away the gov subsidy and we would have a new zealand style industry..........the prize money would be very poor. it has only kept going because there are still politicians interested in the horses...........when that day ends the game will be dead.

Make the remaining "bookies" bet to 120% and we'll take it from there....

Apr 12, 2013 -- 12:23PM, wildmanfromborneo wrote:

Clonmel Produce stakes hoping for 64 entries they only got 15 that shows the decline,they are not even breeding the pups anymore.

ist round over ,72 dogs plus 10 reserves,thats 82..................dont know were u got ur figure of 15 entries wmfb ?

They reopened it and had to phone around begging for entries

Give over will you Wildbore again you have been found out and outsmatred by NGU

I find that hard to believe they only got 15 entries, the reason being it looks a brilliant Produce Stakes and surely most would have been aimed at the race

No member of The Unholy Trinity could outsmart anyone on here apart from each other.

When it comes to dogs PF is probably the best on here, he prices the races himself. If he says there was more than 15 there was more than 15 Wildman, end of.

That low attention span kicking in again,read his post again and also read mine

wildmanfromborneo 12 Apr 13 12:23 Joined: 30 Nov 10 | Topic/replies: 10,069 | Blogger: wildmanfromborneo's blog
Clonmel Produce stakes hoping for 64 entries they only got 15 that shows the decline,they are not even breeding the pups anymore.

You're going to try and argue you said there was more than 15 entered.

One word is all that is needed, Booooooooooooom

You still don't get it,try reading them again.

It appears to me you said there was 15 in it and this was your sole reason for a decline.

Apr 15, 2013 -- 12:47AM, wildmanfromborneo wrote:

They reopened it and had to phone around begging for entries

thats not true,the competition was never reoponed,they didnt need to as it was over subscribed................just more attention seeking lies from tootsie................

Batman and The Boy Wonder have done for me so I fold.

Apr 15, 2013 -- 1:16AM, wildmanfromborneo wrote:

Batman and The Boy Wonder have done for me so I fold.

listen tootsie,why r u a compulsive liar?
why do u crave attention ?
why cant u go a day without mentioning my name ?
why are u lonely and obsessive ?

Stop talking rubbish Wildman and admit you telling lies, NGU he will resort to name calling and he will try to argue with those facts. He is already seething after my big win tonight.

wildmanfromborneo • October 25, 2012 9:27 PM BST
Magic md was until recently a Ladbrokes employee,I am sure he means well but not sure ye should follow bookies tips.

now its funny that wildbore claims that he didnt used to post as dark rosaleen


Coursing Season 2011/2012
By snap crackle and pop on 30 Aug 11 16:43
Not sure what you mean by your last post dark rosaleen, MD does not work for a bookmaker as far as u know, I think you must be getting confused with someone else. He always had time to come on here last season an share his views so I don't see why/ho

i stayed at teds in 1995

not been in shelbourne for ages since covid started and left Dublin, the good thing about Ted was he always took a bet even in puppy races, were the form at home never matched the card, ok not great overround but at least you could get on.
He did have too much power in the ring though probably his own 3 bags plus possibly another 2.
Is he still there ?