Charlie Swan...

just goin thru the motions cheltenham....take the average jp and connell horses away and he has nothin......

True,may just need a real good 'un to get him going,thought drumlee might have been decent though,wasn't sighted in the champion bumper.

JP cant give them all stars for god sake

a trainer dont need stars to be a superstar. just needs stock, evaluate them, train them for what they are and lay them out

brain dead jockeys
21 Mar 13 01:01
Joined:
14 Jun 05
| Topic/replies: 693 | Blogger: brain dead jockeys's blog
JP cant give them all stars for god sakeMAYBE HE SHUD SEND HIM ANTHONY LYNCHDO BETTER JOB W/O THE SHADES

discovery bay sluices up in a maiden hurdle at wetherby on its debut for brian ellison

Amazing,Just shows ye,Same happened with an Ex Rothwell Horse a few weeks ago,won half the track on debut for new English yard.

Charlie is a top trainer, he won that horse himself in Lingfield not so long ago. He just hasn't had the horses of late, but had a taking bumper winner in Cork last week, could be quite special.

Snap he won a claimer with the horse.  He is right up there with Rothwell as one of the worst in the country.  Train the bolli* out of one first time out and thats about it.

dont know who was backing rodriguez there but that was pathetic.......beat 1 home.......

i got a ip for it richters.mite have bkd it of i was in a position to..ran v bad.

ye i fancied it kav after its win at dundalk a few weeks ago........very POOR indeed......

Discovery Bay 2/2 for Ellison since changing stables

to be fair Ellison would improve horses from most yards

Elison was a nothing trainer for years barely able to win a seller at Wolverhampton, his transformation in recent years has been nothing short of miraculous, I wonder why that is?

where are you going now silver?what angle have you?!?..i got lots of winners out of that yard.seldom leaves it behind.

I'm sure you have kav in recent seasons, but this guy epitomized everything you needed in a journeyman trainer plying his trade at Wolverhampton on a Saturday night trying his best to win bad races with bad horses and even then that didnt come easy, his and his horses transformations over the last 3 or 4 seasons has me scratching my head?, are his horses drinking from a magic well?.

prob found his niche in my opinion.getting former promising horses from bad trainers and restoring them to their former glory.dont think anything sinister in it.

His winners are always well backed,Maybe that's just a coincidence,Rarely leave the money behind.

Lots of similarities between Swan and Ellison actually. Both do well with a small string and rarely leave the dosh behind when its down

He could always train. Latalomne might have won 2 Queen Mothers had it stayed on its feet.

charlie is a terrible trainer what are you on snap,the dogs in the street know that,dennis kept the yard respectable,but since he has gone well ...

I think he is a very underestimated trainer. Does well with what he has but just doesn't have the same fire power as some of the bigger yards. Ran a very promising newcomer in Gowran during the week and won a bumper with a very decent looking type in Cork a few weeks ago. Even Discovery Bay was well punted at Lingfield when Swan brought him over for his first run on the polytrack in the UK, and they duly collected.

A winner at Doncaster today for Ellison and a winner for Rothwell at Tramore. Two trainers really at the top of their game right now. Like Charlie Swan, if only they got a slightly better class of horse in their yards they would really be forces to reckoned with at the highest level.

wa about the SHARK iyo snap?

He wouldn't make it onto my top 50 trainers list richters

Charlie Swan  Last 6 years 145 winners from 1700+ runners = 8% s/r

As for getting some fire power,Swan has had it and couldn't deliver, lost multiple owners.
In 07 he had in excess of 400 total runs,last year 180
Ah but shur you are probably skitting Snap.

What firepower are you referring to that Swan had dj? I think he does extremely well with the limited number that he has

in 2007/2008 season he had 413 total runs-shocking trainer.

I wouldn't be hailing winning a 2k claimer against 55 rated horses at Lingfield and losing a decent hurdler to Ellison for a pittance as a successful move.Sold at fishers cross as well for 38k.

Charlie was presented with a golden opportunity by the likes of JP and has under achieved(to put it kindly)

snap are you smoking crack?
Swan is an awful trainer.

If he had just got a break with one of JP's decent horses like At Fishers Cross it would have really boosted his profile and brought him up to the next level where he belongs

Same play as usual from Snap.........re-raises the level of stupidity so he has to be skitting(apparently)filled the net again you shrewdie Snap!!

Although I appreciate your referral to me as a shrewdie, I am not skitting here. The man is a class act imo, otherwise the likes of JP, Gigginstown and Mr Hyde wouldn't be supporting him

Plays too much golf

A neighbour of mine but has no real interest in training.

J P McManus is loyal to his old jockeys and he hasn't forgotten Istabraq
Gigginstown have horses everywhere
The fact Charlie is married to one of Timmy Hydes daughters might be a reason he has his horses

He should hand over to Denis Hogan

Swan had some great seasons, had some good horse not superstars, but the likes of Offshore Account, Emmpat, Jalmira, One Cool Cookie, What a Native among others won plenty of decent prises, the reason for Charlies steady decline might be that McManus and O'Leary have started to broaden their wings and spread their progeny among many trainers, one more good horse and Charlie will be everyones darling again?.

I still think the astonishing almost meteorological rise from all weather nobody to top trainer by Ellison is extremely suspect?.

Brian Ellison
2006-28/255
2007-25/214
2008-27/282
2009-33/356
2010-51/360
2011-53/370
2012-61/442
2013-11/81

Hardly a meteorological rise??Ellison isn't a top trainer,his total prize money last year was 358k, does well at a low level.

Very shrewd stable,the gambling has as much to do with his step son as himself.

Fair dues to him for being able to increase the size of his stable throughout the recession,SG-Don't be so cynical-some people are just good at what they do but as we know you think all trainers are off a similar standard-Feed them,get them fit and watch the dollars roll in!!

Very selective their DJ, how many of his winners in say 2006/7/8 were on the all weather,


WINS    RUNS    %    2NDS    3RDS    4THS    WIN PRIZE    TOTAL PRIZE    £1 STAKE
2013    11    81    14%    15    8    7    £35,315    £76,135    +2.50
2012    61    442    14%    51    47    39    £242,119    £358,537    -60.46
2011    53    371    14%    48    30    43    £271,316    £368,076    -82.63
2010    51    360    14%    46    40    48    £188,485    £272,986    -15.54
2009    33    356    9%    26    51    37    £136,882    £229,526    -67.64
2008    27    282    10%    39    30    23    £104,993    £225,006    -94.83
2007    25    214    12%    23    30    20    £146,473    £255,192    -24.95
2006    28    255    11%    26    34    23    £130,703    £198,109    -65.05
2005    23    257    9%    19    22    33    £117,841    £238,510    -42.31
2004    22    229    10%    14    13    14    £172,364    £229,487    -57.50
2003    20    231    9%    22    24    25    £105,377    £169,830    -59.54
2002    21    189    11%    21    16    14    £80,031    £137,714    -7.67
2001    4    108    4%    4    7    11    £15,929    £31,354    -89.00
2000    3    92    3%    7    6    8    £31,948    £51,872    -70.87
1999    10    104    10%    8    4    7    £60,337    £73,515    -30.63
1998    3    33    9%    3    3    4    £7,650    £11,973    +2.50
1997    1    16    6%    0    1    1    £2,346    £2,882    -6.00
1996    1    26    4%    3    1    0    £3,599    £6,473    -15.00
1995    3    34    9%    1    2    1    £9,448    £11,039    +0.00
1994    1    44    2%    1    2    1    £2,740    £4,329    -23.00
1993    1    60    2%    1    1    6    £2,070    £3,114    -51.50
1992    4    87    5%    3    6    3    £7,979    £11,558    -60.50
1991    3    51    6%    2    0    3    £7,654    £9,535    -1.50
1990    0    6    —    0    1    0    £0    £1,020    -6.00
1988    1    1    100%

Jump stats below the above was all flat races, the huge increase in prizemoney in recent years on both flat and jumps is the stand out for me.


WINS    RUNS    %    2NDS    3RDS    4THS    WIN PRIZE    TOTAL PRIZE    £1 STAKE
2012-13    37    258    14%    39    28    33    £199,466    £310,393    -22.49
2011-12    37    230    16%    34    41    17    £211,263    £327,817    -56.64
2010-11    21    108    19%    12    17    16    £129,160    £223,407    +21.06
2009-10    16    76    21%    5    4    11    £85,297    £108,695    +9.41
2008-09    4    38    11%    8    3    4    £12,878    £25,823    -26.13
2007-08    6    46    13%    10    3    5    £19,057    £32,327    -8.50
2006-07    10    63    16%    8    13    6    £44,605    £67,359    -10.22
2005-06    3    49    6%    4    6    4    £13,862    £26,359    -32.63
2004-05    11    116    9%    11    15    14    £55,932    £122,509    -68.96
2003-04    15    104    14%    17    15    11    £92,657    £148,134    -25.14
2002-03    7    113    6%    10    13    15    £23,623    £59,291    -67.00
2001-02    20    134    15%    19    11    12    £97,539    £133,895    -1.83
2000-01    20    93    22%    15    8    10    £82,652    £126,622    +27.88
1999-00    7    84    8%    5    12    6    £19,987    £35,706    -21.00
1998-99    8    99    8%    11    11    6    £25,448    £44,005    -49.75
1997-98    8    91    9%    7    9    10    £19,556    £29,377    -39.88
1996-97    11    118    9%    13    6    9    £27,818    £41,783    -28.00
1995-96    10    79    13%    13    5    5    £34,900    £48,309    +0.63
1994-95    0    23    —    0    5    4    £0    £1,864    -23.00
1993-94    2    35    6%    2    4    3    £3,708    £6,416    -19.50
1992-93    3    22    14%    2    0    4    £6,541    £7,198    +18.00
1991-92    3    36    8%    4    6    0    £7,089    £11,647    -16.00
1990-91    3    49    6%    5    4    4    £7,514    £12,599    -7.00
1989-90    2    54    4%    4    5    5    £3,408    £7,372    -37.75
1988-89    1    7    14%    0

Prize money was €228000 in 2005 and rose astonishingly to €358000 by 2012,what does it matter if the 2k claimers/4k handicaps are on the all weather or turf??

238k in 2005 ,229k in 2004 up to 358k nearly 10 years later!!Very fishy??

For a trainer who was never talked about for years as one who improves other peoples cast offs, now he's able turn the ugliest ducklings into imperious Swans?, how come you couldnt do that before Brian considering you've been training for 24 years or so?.
Suddenly found that magic formula after all these years?.

I would have either Rothwell or Swan ahead of Ellison any day of the week

Rothwell

The racing in the uk is very low grade most of the time......Ellison to be fair to him places his horses well.

Exactly Gant, if Rothwell or Swan were based in the UK they would be winning those low grade races left right and centre, just look at what the result was when Swan brought a stable lesser light to Lingfield for a claimer, wins pulling a freight train!

Rothwell is a shocking trainer.  He would still be a shocking trainer if he trained in the UK.  His horses have no consistency and the key is he doesnt have a clue when they will run well.  That says it all

19 wins and 41 placed horses in the last 12 months. He does extremely well with what he has just doesnt have the firepower in the yard to bring him to the next level

You really have to wonder about Charlie...