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HF is the lay of the festiva,l as long as the ground isn't soft.Many people believe that he is better on good ground, due to lazy montjeu generalisations but imo his sire is irrelevant, when you have 18 odd runs over hurdles to judge him on.
I can't get his last 2 runs of last year, out of my mind,one paced in the champion(as an 8yo) and then struggled to land the odds at Punchestown(ok he apparently wasn't right)but what has he done this year to dispel those doubts??Beaten a decent 20f horse and a half former champion in bottomless ground.
If the ground is anywhere near good/good to soft I can't see him beating Grandouet(presuming all is ok)/Rock on Ruby.I make him about a 4/1 shot and if the ground is anywhere near good(repeating myself but the ground is the most important aspect) will be hammering the pink button at 6/4 or shorter.
I can't get his last 2 runs of last year, out of my mind,one paced in the champion(as an 8yo) and then struggled to land the odds at Punchestown(ok he apparently wasn't right)but what has he done this year to dispel those doubts??Beaten a decent 20f horse and a half former champion in bottomless ground.
If the ground is anywhere near good/good to soft I can't see him beating Grandouet(presuming all is ok)/Rock on Ruby.I make him about a 4/1 shot and if the ground is anywhere near good(repeating myself but the ground is the most important aspect) will be hammering the pink button at 6/4 or shorter.
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Beaten a decent 20f horse and a half fit former champion in bottomless ground.
nap of the meeting imo....ruby wont be so far off the pace this time.......no mistakes this year......
agree, who did he beat up last year? only a thousands stars, getting fed up beating the same old muck, oh what ISTABRAQ would have done to him, if only?
All about opinions Richters but would he be your nap on good ground??
Did you think he was closing on ROR/Overturn at the line??(I don't think ROR got the credit he deserves but Grandouet is most likely winner imo)
Did you think he was closing on ROR/Overturn at the line??(I don't think ROR got the credit he deserves but Grandouet is most likely winner imo)
Lay of the meeting for me also and if you don't mind locking up your cash lay him now as he will be bigger on the day.
He is undoubtedly a soft ground horse but even were it to come up heavy( unlikely ) he is still a lay only you will have the luxury of laying him at a shorter price
My Tent Or Yours is my other lay as he looks to be going in some renewal of the Supreme Novices,there are dangers lurking everywhere.
At least we will know our fate early in the meeting.
He is undoubtedly a soft ground horse but even were it to come up heavy( unlikely ) he is still a lay only you will have the luxury of laying him at a shorter price
My Tent Or Yours is my other lay as he looks to be going in some renewal of the Supreme Novices,there are dangers lurking everywhere.
At least we will know our fate early in the meeting.
dj he was subject of a very poor ride by ruby last year and just got caught for toe after chasin the leaders......id be expecting a repeat of his 2011 victory here.......dont think the ground really a factor with the fly to be honest.....
dj why would you think good ground would be a problem for the fly?
if fly wins another champion the media will porobably have you believe that he was some sort of a wonder horse?, my ass, Istabraq would destroy him.
silver no comparison imo......theathreworld woulda destroyed the fly ffs.....
Istabraq was a great horse but he reigned at a time when there wasn't a hurdler of any worth about.He wouldn't have won a Champion Hurdle in the seventies the golden age of hurdling.
Wildman,I wouldn't lay him on soft ground.
Nap of the meeting isn't very unique but a dutch of Bobs worth and Sir des Champs at 11/8 is cracking value.
Nap of the meeting isn't very unique but a dutch of Bobs worth and Sir des Champs at 11/8 is cracking value.
anyway let the media off their leash, a thousand stars would'nt have seen what parish the greatest hurdler of all time went?
Istabraq now that was a champion
Istabraq now that was a champion
I know that Richters but I don't think he is the same horse since that unbelievable effort against peddlers cross.Frankly if you think that he has as good a chance on good ground,well then Gl to you.
wildman sometimes I think you disagree more for the sake of it-, wind up greaser?, no contest Istabraq the GREATEST
well its as simple as this if ruby hada been closer to the pace and kicked when the front 2 did he wuda won....wasted a lot of energy from the rear....a poor poor ride imo......grandouet 1 run since dec 2011......NO THANKYOU......why would it even reverse the form with zarkander who ruby has deserted.....
Richters if you don't think Hf is more effective on soft ground,I won't waste my breath educating you.
As for Grandouet maybe because he is 4lbs better off,maybe because the champion is run on a different course than the international which suits speedier types,maybe because Zarkandar was 100% fit and it was a pipe opener for Grandouet.
Was HF closing at the line last year??Wouldn't have won ,no matter where he was!!!
As for Grandouet maybe because he is 4lbs better off,maybe because the champion is run on a different course than the international which suits speedier types,maybe because Zarkandar was 100% fit and it was a pipe opener for Grandouet.
Was HF closing at the line last year??Wouldn't have won ,no matter where he was!!!
hf , has been one of my fav horses , but i think age might just catch up with him , he looked on top of his form in the resent past , but when you take his dislike of traveling plus his tendency to boil over into consideration i think hes a lay.....
was at fairyhouse the day limestone lad beat istabraq in the hattons grace....what a game horse......deserved a stayers hurdle......
fitzy was talking about that today on atr richters....
Where do you think he got his opinion from wonky? Himself 
aye bacchanal beat him.......remenber doing the forecast istabraq beating limestone....there was something back then wr about the tote on courseautomatically reversing,a couple of lads on the bus had the same fc and threw dockets away only 2 go searchin for them....am i correct,i was only green to racing then.....
cant say for sure richters as i dont bet with he tote, i do know that a good few years ago the irish tote were doing that ...i.e....1/2 or 2/1 it didn't matter which way they finished you got payed ...it didn't last to long though ...
i see scumfingers chirping in.....good job i have the block button in operation.......
classic from wildmanfromborneo richters ,
wildmanfromborneo 17 Feb 13 22:19
I'd say the other young lads didn't half scatter when you mentioned the shed and the showers.
wildmanfromborneo 17 Feb 13 22:19
I'd say the other young lads didn't half scatter when you mentioned the shed and the showers.
lol....tayto crisps and all....ffs.......completely and utterly MENTAL........
Silvergreaser I never try to wind you up and any disagreements I have with you are genuine.
Istabraqs feat of winning at four festivals in a row is impressive and but for foot and mouth would probably have been five,there is no doubting his worth but he was around when there were no other good hurdlers.It is fair to say he can only beat those that run against him but when you are talking about all time greatness quality of the opposition comes into it and for me the late seventies was the golden age of hurdling and I would put up three from that era ahead of Istanraq as well as a novice.
Istabraqs feat of winning at four festivals in a row is impressive and but for foot and mouth would probably have been five,there is no doubting his worth but he was around when there were no other good hurdlers.It is fair to say he can only beat those that run against him but when you are talking about all time greatness quality of the opposition comes into it and for me the late seventies was the golden age of hurdling and I would put up three from that era ahead of Istanraq as well as a novice.
It's gone very weak in the betting today.
Can't lay the beast at any price now.
Can't lay the beast at any price now.
15 Wins from 17 runs in the last 5 years is some record. 13 of those in grade 1 races. I dont think the horse gets the credit he deserves.
blackwater u trying to create a drift? 3.15 at mo.last time i looked a weeka ago it was same..?
I can't have him at the price either.
But I am in such rotten form lately, my advice to one and all is to back him off the boards.
But I am in such rotten form lately, my advice to one and all is to back him off the boards.
Kavvie, when I posted those comments earlier there was a total of €62 available to lay on Hurricane Fly at all prices.
Since then someone has queued up €6k or thereabouts. It might be a punter, or it might be someone in the trade trying to shore up the price.
I've been tricking about on the market for the past week or so and the favourite feels weak to me. It's certainly easier to lay the likes of Zarkandar, RoR, Grandouet and Binocular.
As DJ suggests, though, it might just be a reaction to the drying ground.
Since then someone has queued up €6k or thereabouts. It might be a punter, or it might be someone in the trade trying to shore up the price.
I've been tricking about on the market for the past week or so and the favourite feels weak to me. It's certainly easier to lay the likes of Zarkandar, RoR, Grandouet and Binocular.
As DJ suggests, though, it might just be a reaction to the drying ground.
I looked at some stage last week and he was 2.86/2.92.After reading Blackwater's post I looked and he was 3.15/3.85 with nothing much looking to back compared to a couple of thousand last week.
A few weeks ago I was of the same opinion to lay HF but the simple fact of Ruby plumping to ride him instead of Zarkander has made me think again - One thing is for sure - Ruby aint riding him for the good of his health ! Really looking forward to the race - We should have a fair idea at the top of the hill if HF is going ok and is close enough to the pace - and if he is maybe the guy he was watching last year will be too - so a cheeky fiver on Binocular to place 
He worked at the Curragh today. Hopefully all went okay with him. I agree that he doesn't get the credit he deserves. He's actually won the same amount of Grade 1's as Istabraq did in his career.
Wildman there was no real stand out performer from that so called golden age of hurdling, all taking turns at beating each other, Istabraq simply pulverised decent opponents time and time again, almost certainly would've won 4 champion hurdles only for the foot and mouth outbreak.
richters • February 17, 2013 11:14 PM GMT
"nap of the meeting imo....ruby wont be so far off the pace this time.......no mistakes this year...."
wildmanfromborneo • February 17, 2013 11:20 PM GMT
Lay of the meeting for me also........................He is undoubtedly a soft ground horse
"nap of the meeting imo....ruby wont be so far off the pace this time.......no mistakes this year...."
wildmanfromborneo • February 17, 2013 11:20 PM GMT
Lay of the meeting for me also........................He is undoubtedly a soft ground horse
You just disputed that he was your nap of the meeting on the other thread,ffs you're sharp lad.
are you sniffing glue again....when did i say hf wasnt my nap of the meeting?
richters
05 Mar 13 23:40
Joined:
27 Jan 12
| Topic/replies: 5,547 | Blogger: richters's blog WAS AT FAIRYHOUSE THEN WHEN LIMESTONE BEAT ISTABRAQ N THE HATTONS AND THE F/C WAS THE SAME AS LIMESTONE W/O IE:4/6 LIMESTONE HAD 14LB IN HAND OF EVERYTHING ELSE IT WAS JUST THAT HE HAD KEPT RISING IN THE H'CAP AND PROBABLY CAUSE HE WAS IN THE CARE OF THE BOWE'S THAT THE BOOKIES OFFERED THESE GREAT ODDS MAYBE THEY THOUGHT HE WAS MORE ON A PAR WITH TWO OF THE OTHERS WELL I AVAILED OF THESE GREAT ODDS W/O AND I WAS YOUNG ALSO BUT NOT SO GREEN PS:NEVER HAD ANOTHER BET REST OF THE DAY
05 Mar 13 23:40
Joined:
27 Jan 12
| Topic/replies: 5,547 | Blogger: richters's blog WAS AT FAIRYHOUSE THEN WHEN LIMESTONE BEAT ISTABRAQ N THE HATTONS AND THE F/C WAS THE SAME AS LIMESTONE W/O IE:4/6 LIMESTONE HAD 14LB IN HAND OF EVERYTHING ELSE IT WAS JUST THAT HE HAD KEPT RISING IN THE H'CAP AND PROBABLY CAUSE HE WAS IN THE CARE OF THE BOWE'S THAT THE BOOKIES OFFERED THESE GREAT ODDS MAYBE THEY THOUGHT HE WAS MORE ON A PAR WITH TWO OF THE OTHERS WELL I AVAILED OF THESE GREAT ODDS W/O AND I WAS YOUNG ALSO BUT NOT SO GREEN PS:NEVER HAD ANOTHER BET REST OF THE DAY
the fibes are not good
if he is tailed of and beaten a mile, q's will be asked
i hope this is not the case but the market is more honest than any opinion
if he is tailed of and beaten a mile, q's will be asked
i hope this is not the case but the market is more honest than any opinion
The Fly is going to get his ground,tomorrow is the day we see if all the forecast rain materialises.
Grandouet went out to 40s's at one stag today,Nicky Henderson responds with all is ok but of course the weekend before Binocular was ruled out of the champion Henderson reported Bino is working better than ever and expecting a massive run(at this stage Nicky H was aware Bino wouldn't run because he would fail the test).
Grandouet went out to 40s's at one stag today,Nicky Henderson responds with all is ok but of course the weekend before Binocular was ruled out of the champion Henderson reported Bino is working better than ever and expecting a massive run(at this stage Nicky H was aware Bino wouldn't run because he would fail the test).
Looking through the thread there are various opinions about Istabraq . Top 5 of what I have seen , should have won 4 CH but for f&m . Where he sits in relation to past champions ( and now Hurricane possibly) as usual starts a debate . Re Hurricane , first horse since Comedy of Errors ( 1975) to regain the title , in itself a daunting statistic .
Regarding what Istabraq beat , not stellar , but it was the certainty with which he kept beating all and sundry that stamped him . You could always depend on him if you backed him , normally at short prices , and those are the sort of horses people addicted to winning like . Lit up 5/6 Festivals for most of us . Big big roar the first time he won at Cheltenham , over a distance a bit too far I think .
Every era has their supporters , I even remember ( via my father , a big Vincent follower ) Hattons Grace being mentioned in dispatches . Persian War galloped to a few wins ( the hard way ) , and then the "golden era" happened . At that point the hurdlers were much better craic for a lot of reasons than the chasers , still looking over their shoulder at Arkle and Flyingbolt for us lot . And there were a lot of memorable battles , usually between 2 or 3 talented and brave animals , which the public identified with . And we lost Golden Cygnet , could have had a big say .
Hard to place them all relatively , times dont mean a thing -- todays first winner ( novice) clocked a better time than Hurricane , and the CH looked a decent pace . So its about opinions , era driven sometimes . But I think Istabraq and Hurricane will both be top 5 when they are teasing it all out . Hurricane needs another though to silence any doubters . Roll on next year , DV .
Regarding what Istabraq beat , not stellar , but it was the certainty with which he kept beating all and sundry that stamped him . You could always depend on him if you backed him , normally at short prices , and those are the sort of horses people addicted to winning like . Lit up 5/6 Festivals for most of us . Big big roar the first time he won at Cheltenham , over a distance a bit too far I think .
Every era has their supporters , I even remember ( via my father , a big Vincent follower ) Hattons Grace being mentioned in dispatches . Persian War galloped to a few wins ( the hard way ) , and then the "golden era" happened . At that point the hurdlers were much better craic for a lot of reasons than the chasers , still looking over their shoulder at Arkle and Flyingbolt for us lot . And there were a lot of memorable battles , usually between 2 or 3 talented and brave animals , which the public identified with . And we lost Golden Cygnet , could have had a big say .
Hard to place them all relatively , times dont mean a thing -- todays first winner ( novice) clocked a better time than Hurricane , and the CH looked a decent pace . So its about opinions , era driven sometimes . But I think Istabraq and Hurricane will both be top 5 when they are teasing it all out . Hurricane needs another though to silence any doubters . Roll on next year , DV .
I shouldn't reply to because you're quite dim-The fly was still eve briefly outpaced on SOFT ground,
"If the ground is anywhere near good/good to soft I can't see him beating Grandouet(presuming all is ok)/Rock on Ruby.I make him about a 4/1 shot and if the ground is anywhere near good(repeating myself but the ground is the most important aspect) will be hammering the pink button at 6/4 or shorter."
"If the ground is anywhere near good/good to soft I can't see him beating Grandouet(presuming all is ok)/Rock on Ruby.I make him about a 4/1 shot and if the ground is anywhere near good(repeating myself but the ground is the most important aspect) will be hammering the pink button at 6/4 or shorter."
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