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Vubiant
07 Feb 13 21:02
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Date Joined: 02 Aug 04
| Topic/replies: 7,360 | Blogger: Vubiant's blog
A massive tribute is due to Ml. Noonan for piloting the restructuring project through to a successful conclusion.
He has shown remarkable reserves of physical and mental stamina in shuttling back and forth to Europe where he had to deal with some of the most intractable ideologues in Germany and other places. He has at all times exhibited a sure grasp of the fiscal intricacies involved and remained unriffled in the face of all the inevitable frustrations and delays.
In addition he constantly exuded an air of calm reassurance -even when the media , with too much time to fill , were cultivating hysteria and false dramas out of nothing but wild speculation.
there have been many who laboured to bring this day about but Ml. Noonan was the redoubtable leader and the skilful steersman who has brought the ship to harbour despite the pathetic scoffing of the naysayers safely ensconced on the sideline.

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Replies: 100
By:
Tolmi
When: 07 Feb 13 21:17
Is that you Pearse?
By:
yummy
When: 07 Feb 13 21:29
Munster to the rescue again!!1!!
By:
Diamond_Joe_Quimby
When: 07 Feb 13 21:47
Thread Fishing Quality: 97.85%
By:
steeringjobnap
When: 07 Feb 13 22:35
The presence of so much gushing, fawning, mawkish & sentimental hyperbole is a sure sign that the writer is trying too hard.

Put your rod away please.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 07 Feb 13 22:40
I think Vubiant is serious,there are flaws in this deal but Noonan is a wiley old fox and if he manages to pawn someone off with Nama bonds he is a genius.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 07 Feb 13 22:47
pretend it was a leak from an unknown source, rush it through the dail before anyone has a chance to study it.

We all know don't we the sleeveen basta!rds leaked it themselves?.
By:
Diamond_Joe_Quimby
When: 07 Feb 13 23:01
Noonan Vs An Investment firm


Anyone care to price the match bet on who comes out the better? Laugh
By:
Diamond_Joe_Quimby
When: 07 Feb 13 23:02
We all know don't we the sleeveen basta!rds leaked it themselves?.

Thought Rabbite looked shifty when Pat Kenny stated in the US the FBI would be called in.
By:
JayTrumpOldTomDubbl
When: 07 Feb 13 23:04
Good man vubiant, another load of horsemeat, from your good self.Hope all's well in Abbeyfeale. We can all go shopping now for that cheese that Noonan 'wise cracked' Greece about
Every time I hear his name I think of the McCole family in Donegal, and I feel a sadness, that this State treated them so poorly, esp. this man that you feel is your hero now.
Such a pity he didn't show a grasp of 'humanity' to this family in Donegal.
As regards this latest deal in fact I think your very wide of the mark, as it is the Central Bank boss Mr. Honohan who has got us this deal, regardless of what the record may show.
By:
steeringjobnap
When: 07 Feb 13 23:56
Honohon will be remembered in the future annals of Irish history as being responsible for the single most reprehensibly financial act of mismanagement that this State ever inflicted upon it's unfortunate citizens.

His loyalty is to his cabal of fellow financial [mis] alchemists of the ECB Board, and not to his fellow countrymen.

He's a modern-day "Broy Harrier" with an econometrics degree.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 08 Feb 13 00:01
I am no friend of the Broy Harriers but don't get the reference,however I agree with the rest of the post.
By:
steeringjobnap
When: 08 Feb 13 00:06
IIRC, Broy Harriers happily turned against former comrades.

A slightly obscure reference at this hour of night, admittedly.
By:
wildmanfromborneo
When: 08 Feb 13 00:11
On second thoughts its actually a good analogy although was Honohon ever a comrade think he was always on the bankers side.
By:
steeringjobnap
When: 08 Feb 13 00:28
The power - á la The Rothschilds - to create new money out of thin air is clearly a powerful toxin.

I'm reminded of the famous quote [I think attributable to Lincoln, but open to correction] of mastery of the money supply being akin to control of all men.
By:
ilikewavingatbuses
When: 08 Feb 13 00:48
How this forum isnt running the country i'll never knowLaugh
By:
irish_guy_13
When: 08 Feb 13 00:59
We all know don't we the sleeveen basta!rds leaked it themselves?.

That one is a 1.00000000001
By:
steeringjobnap
When: 08 Feb 13 01:07
I actually think the ECB deliberately leaked it instead, to force the government's "wind-up" hand as the Troika believed that the Promissory Notes' deal was unconstitutional.

Either that, or the explosive Quinn/IBRC court case coming in 2013 results in the disputed 2.3bl CFD deals being declared null and void [under Section 60 of the Companies' Act I am led to believe].
By:
irish_guy_13
When: 08 Feb 13 01:20
ecb/goverment same thing, it was all planned imo.... by both parties.
By:
Wallflower
When: 08 Feb 13 10:16
Its a f*ckin great deal imo (given the position we were/are in) - shouldn't look at it in the context of a once-off, but as part of an overall strategy - we have 25-40 years to deal with this nowCool - and make further gains (notwithstanding the effects inflation will ravage on it). This "debt" will continually be eroded over the next 4 decades.

I don't think we'll ever pay the capital if you ask me, or it will be rolled-over continually until it becomes inconsequential. Headlines of "legacy of debt" are so off the mark is laughable - whatever happens lets not have a good news story.

Most importantly we now have some breathing room.

At least FF - perhaps feeling somewhat chastised that their greatest rivals for power, seem to have gotten us out of the massive hole they put us into - have praised the government, what else could they do I suppose.

SFDevil - just talking complete and utter sh1te as usual can barely conceal their disappointment that the country has caught a break of some sort.

So, credit where credit is due......(I've no political allegiance whatsoever - classic floating voter, make my mind-up each and every election based on my own thinking).......not bad for openers.

Anyone who thinks that's it settled is wrong, this is only the startHappy - personally I think the govt played a good hand. I also believe what they were projecting and saying publicly  (good boys of Europe, responsible, conciliatory)and what they are saying privately in Europe were two different things, and rightly so, as if you're going to display your approach on Prime Time, Newstalk etc etc
By:
silvergreaser
When: 08 Feb 13 11:00
By refusing to bail out the banks and helping homeowners, Iceland has paved an alternative path to growth after its financial meltdown. 



Creating growth after the crisis

Back in 2008 the Icelandic banks defaulted on $85 billion, leaving the island's population buried under a burden of debt, and furious with their politicians and bankers for the country's economic collapse.

Now however, Iceland's economy looks set to outgrow both the euro area and the developed world on average, according to estimates by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD).

The OECD reckons Iceland's economy, which grew 2.9% last year, is set to go up 2.4% this year, compared to growth of just 0.2% in the euro area and 1.6% across the OECD area, as reported by Bloomberg.

Unorthodox approach to defaulting on debt

Yet Iceland has spurred this economic miracle without bailing out the bankers with untold billions.

Instead, Iceland did "everything the International Monetary Fund (IMF) or the global economic establishment thinks you should never do", according to Allister Heath, editor of business daily City A.M., when "it allowed banks to go bust, it defaulted on its debt, it reneged on international deals and so on, putting taxpayers first".

US commentator Cenk Uygur also highlighted the divergent Icelandic approach on this episode of The Young Turks.

Uygur described the Icelandic success story as based on nationalising the banks, indicting the bankers who caused the mess and bailing out 25% of the population by forgiving debt that exceeded 110% of property values.

"The lesson to be learned from Iceland's crisis is that if other countries think it's necessary to write down debts, they should look at how successful the 110% agreement was here," said Thorolfur Matthiasson, an economics professor at the University of Iceland in Reykjavik.

David Dayden also praised debt deleveraging for successfully bringing back the Icelandic economy, when writing on FDL.

Dayden contrasted the US reaction to its housing crisis, where the US refused to write-down debt as rewarding bad actors and causing moral hazard, and instead poured money into "back-door" bank bailouts.

He said: "Guess what? Debt write-downs do work. They generate a wealth effect among the population, and they help to end balance-sheet recessions and bring about economic growth.

"The facts reveal that austerity is counter-productive, while debt forgiveness is extremely productive."

Doubts about Iceland's example

Some commentators cast doubt on the success or otherwise of Iceland's approach.

Responding to the Bloomberg coverage, Ólafur Garðarsson described the 110% way as "an utter failure".

He said: "A quarter of all households in Iceland are in financial crisis mode, unable to make mortgage payments and in many cases not even able to buy groceries, let alone medicines and other necessities. Another quarter of households are on the brink of financial ruin."

Samúel Erlendur Lárusson also posted his concerns that even though currency-indexed loans were ruled illegal, they are "still being collected as the government refuses to take any action against the banks".

Mr Lárusson forecast that "few, if any of the indicted bankers will face anything more than minor fines".

Here on Mindful Money, Simon Ward, chief economist at Henderson, warned in his blog that Iceland's economic growth since devaluing the krona has not been significantly higher than in Balkan states that pursued austerity measures to defend euro exchange rates pegs.

At City A.M., Heath acknowledged that there were lots of downsides to Iceland's policies, with devaluation pushing up Iceland's prices by a quarter, capital controls pushing away investment and mass mortgage write-offs unfair when savers lost money.

However Heath also considered that other troubled economies could still learn from the Icelandic model. He said: "Sometimes total collapse followed by a swift rebound works better than a long-drawn out death.

"A sanitised version of what Iceland did - default, debt write-offs, shutting bust banks and devaluation - combined with dramatic supply-side reforms would undoubtedly make more sense for an economy such as Greece.".
By:
silvergreaser
When: 08 Feb 13 11:03
Now let me see, bend over Enda there is a big frankfurter about to penetrate your **** yet again you gutless wimp!.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 08 Feb 13 11:04
rectum
By:
Wallflower
When: 08 Feb 13 11:27
Very articulate silvergreaser - cut and paste an ambiguous article, followed by rectum and frankfurters, or whatever.

With your extensive economic knowledge - can you outline the path Ireland should take right now? or perhaps should have taken, and how you would think it would play out?

Little hint: - we are not Iceland, it would not be the same.
Another hint: - Ireland:- "F*ck off, Frankfurt - we're not paying a cent". Frankfurt:- "Ok, that's fine, no problems, you have enough to get you by, have you? Let us know, if you need a hand". ExpandCool.
By:
maxheadroom
When: 08 Feb 13 12:01
too late for Bridget McCole harassed to the bitter end by that scumbag noonan.
By:
Tolmi
When: 08 Feb 13 12:43
If I am reading the terms of the deal correctly do the Irish Central Bank "borrow" from the ECB at base rate currently .75% and charge the Government 3%? Then the Central Bank make a profit on the loan which they return to the Government as their 100% owner.In effect the rate on the is close to the ECB base rate which is a real result for the Government.

For once I would have to say that my old adversary JayTrump might have it correct...it would look to me as if Patrick Honohan was the brains behind it.
By:
newco-Joe67
When: 08 Feb 13 12:44
OP + old git with no kids
By:
Arklearkle
When: 08 Feb 13 13:00
Some people have it real bad and I hope their take on the gee gees is a bit better and I reckon most should stick to them.
By:
Diamond_Joe_Quimby
When: 08 Feb 13 15:31
The "Deal" is no big deal. The country pretty much owes the same amount but obviously the medication is now being delivered over a longer period. I have little doubt Enda, Noonan, Honohan et al had little to do with this. The idea that the "Brave trio" went in and dictated to the ECB, IMF, Draghi etc....is hilarious.
By:
thegalwayman
When: 08 Feb 13 15:47
Well Diamond Joe, if there is one thing we can all take from this, it's that you have absolutely no clue what you are on about.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 08 Feb 13 17:39
Wallflower, Iceland had balls for good or bad, they had balls. those wimps that masquerade as an Irish goverment spent their days getting **** up the ass so much so Kenny is in need of a new rectum, what a **** sucker, I'm sure spain, italy and greece will get a better deal, why?, because they don't feel the need to **** suck!
By:
Tolmi
When: 08 Feb 13 18:12
You are one bitter man Silvergreaser who in common with other recent threads is not letting the facts get in the way of a preconceived opinion.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 08 Feb 13 18:28
yeah I'm a bitter man, tell me why tolmi?

do you want me do a dance or something?
By:
silvergreaser
When: 08 Feb 13 18:30
but yet I'll always be civil.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 08 Feb 13 18:38
hand in glove the sun shines right out of our behinds.
By:
Tolmi
When: 08 Feb 13 18:43
I don't think any right minded person would consider some of your posts on this thread civil.They are anything but.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 08 Feb 13 18:47
my posts are not directed at any individual but a spineless goverment, what is wrong with my posts tolmi?
By:
Tolmi
When: 08 Feb 13 18:49
Maybe if you read them again you will come to a different conclusion.
By:
silvergreaser
When: 08 Feb 13 18:53
when you're down €500 a month on a topped up mortgage come back to me, I'll never for the life of me see one last cent of that money they took off me, yet some in the media are calling yesterday a victory?, spare me please!
By:
Allduckornodinner
When: 08 Feb 13 18:56
It's a ridiculous "deal". They have taken promisory notes which we should never have been paying back in the first place as they presently stood and turned them into sovereign debt. The spineless tools couldn't even get 0% Bonds which would have been manageable, inflation would have reduced the capital payback by about 30-40% by the time it came to principle became due. To really stick the boot in they appoint the former auditors of Irish Nationwide to liquidate IBRC, you couldn't make it up! KPMG are going to pull millions and millions in fees on this case and will feather the pension nest nicely for a whole host of people as the liquidation will take years to finalise. I mean PWC are still pulling six figures a year for the wind up of the Insurance Corporation of Ireland!

On a side note a friend of a friend who worked in KPMG Restructuring left during the week to begin a job with IBRC. Talk about timing!
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