Calling Peter Casey

Run him, he has a horse of a lifetime, goes to show that horse training is all about the ability of the horse, not Willie "if, but, maybe" Mullins, or Dermot "I'd gladly rap every horse of mine in cotton wool, if I thought for one second he/she has a modicum of ability" Weld.

Jump racing has become almost like flat racing, and these jumpers don't have any balls yet fear of defeat all but consumes them???, or is the festival the be all and end all?, oh to grab what real jump racing was once about, back in the 80's and 90's horses actually took each other on, today its cotton wool mentality, well considering back in my day we didn't have such suffocating ownership of the tax avoider and O'Leary.

Why do you bother with the game silver? Seriously you never stop moaning about everything related with the game so why do you bother with it? Surely it would be better to do something different that gives you enjoyment with your spare time or does complaining give you pleasure?

Am I actually moaning?, I'm delighted that Flemenstar and his connections are proving that you don't need Willie Mullins or Paul Nichols to be a trainer, in fact I'm almost ecstatic, that my proof consistently regurgitates itself, its the horse not the jockey, its the horse not the trainer!

If Ruby was riding sh!t horses I'm sure nobody would have heard of him? or he'd ended up a journey man?

silvergreaser is one of the pitifully few who can see the reality of horse racing
with clear logic.
The horse is fundamentally at the heart of the matter. The trainer is next most important element. The jockeys are the least involved but beacsue they ply their trade in public and at the result end they get far more publicity than is due.
There's no such thing as a 'Gr.1 winning' jockey as if they have something that a non-Gr.1 winning jockey hasn't got. All they got was the chance that in the nature of things must be denied to many others just as competent.
Likewise 'champion jockey ' is an utterly meaningless term ...someone must ride the most winners during any stretch of time ...so what ?
I admire jockeys greatly for the challenges they face -early mornings , weight control , long hours of travel,falls and injuries. And doubtless some work harder than others  -but in the race -if they're not on the best horse they will seldom win. And if they do not have the all-important ingredient of 'luck' -they will languish among the hordes of the unsung.

Vubiant,do you not think that why the likes of a certain R Walsh is shared between two of the hardest and most professional Trainers today is because he has something  other jockeys don't?,just digest that for a while and wonder why Nichols/Mullins takes Ruby whenever Ruby decides and not the other way around.

Vubiant obviously I'm going to agree, nice post!, Punchestown these heroes are not really the hero your media tries to lump on you, did you ever question that status quo?

Willie Mullins got lucky?

silver,don't see him as a hero just really good at what he does but like all of us he does make mistakes.

Soba, Norton's Coin, Danoli etc , yeh a sheep farmer from Wales won a Gold Cup, is it really as scientific as the media try to tell me?, I'm no fool, a horse race will usually be decided by the best horse, in rare occasions a jockey will mess it up but its horse ability guys in fact it always was horse ability, eff u and your Ruby, he's not my hero!

silver,the hero reference was aimed at my opinion of the jockey and not yours.

Naturally there's going to be smaller Trainers getting big winners occasionally,can't see what's unusual about that.

As for Ruby Walsh -he is now a highly accomplished jockey ( i.e. he has a long list of accomplishment to his name).
Why has he got this CV ? Firstly , he was born to a successful jockey with lots of useful contacts in the heart of racing country.
Secondly he had the interest to apply himself and exploit the many excellent opportunities he got . What catapulted him into the bigtime was riding Papillon at the age of 20 to win the grand national FOR HIS FATHER.
This led to his gaining experience which others less fortunate cannot have . Thus top trainers like to use the experienced jockeys and it becomes self-fulfilling.
There is a belief among English trainers that Irish jockeys are particularly talented and they are always likely to want to employ the winningmost ones -I can recall Barry Brogan , Tommy Carmody doing the business 40/50 years ago and we have a continuous stream down to Geraghty , Denis O'Regan ( and on the flat too).
When you look at the history of successful jockeys you see many examples where having a parent who trained or rode eases the path to the top ( although it's no guarantee) ...off the top of my head I can list Lester Piggott , Pat Eddery ,Walter Swinburn , Frankie Detori ,Peter Scudamore , Tom Scudamore , the Twiston-Davis sons , Nina Carberry ,P W Mullins  etc. etc.

Incidentally -the Graham Lee phenomenon show the point clearly again ...out of the blue a jump jockey rides 100 winners in a year ....so he's ''better'' than all these guys busting their guts on the flat for years who only get 30 , 40 or 50 winners ? Not at all -it's simply that anyone who can ride a horse can get the job done if they get the chance . Lee got the chances because he had contacts and an already high profile.

Oops - I somehow managed to omit the most famous recent example - J P O'Brien
Just managed to avert the wrath of s..........r.

Yes luckily for the former twice champion amateur and reigning champion rider with multiple grade 1 wins that he managed to get catapulted into the limelight when he won on Papillon.

I would definitely agree with that certain jockeys due to there family have had better chances.

But isn't that life. Politicans, Bankers, Lawyers, Doctors...isn't the world run on who you know first and then what you know second?

Not quite sure what your trying to say allduck -though frankly  that's nothing new.
Are you agreeing that it was a considerable boost to RW's profile and career prospects that he won the Grand National on his first ride in the race at the age of 20 -or are you trying to mount some sarcastic demurral ?

I am saying that Ruby Walsh was a prodigious talent that was already coveted by the top stables before he won the National. Maybe it embedded him deeper in the public consciousness but everyone in racing knew about him long beforehand. He would still be where he is today if Papillon had headbutted the first and dropped him.

It's one thing saying that JP O' Brien is Coolmore top jock mainly because of who he is (patently true) but if you cannot see that Ruby is the best man to ever throw a leg over a horse then i'd be wandering what you are looking at.

its your opinion ruby is best man ever to throw leg over horse not a fact.

Of course it's my opinion. Like everything else titles such as best ever are always subjective and thats why I see phrases such as "in my opinion" as being redundant most of the time and generally don't use them. I am resolute in my assertion that he is the best ever and even if you don't agree I think it's quite a stretch to make that he only got where he is because his second name is Walsh. There's been plenty well connected people that never made it as riders and trainers too you know.

it didnt do him any harm either.
and look at what winners mullins junior bangs in. nothing to do with his style or jockeyship.

Of course it didn't and it opened plenty of doors but he had to be the man he is to take them.

To compare the winners that PW is riding to those in the upper echelon of the professional ranks is foolhardy. He seems a nice fella but even he would admit that anyone would ride the penalty kicks he is often up on (though he is a better race rider than he is often given credit for). I would imagine the average SP of his mounts this season would be quite short.

Seems as if he is off to Leopardstown OP,he didn't have a hard race by any means yesterday.
Silvergreaser,i think people on the forums are giving the horses the credit in general as even recent threads on here( Un Atout,Flemenstar,Sprinter Sacre,Mount Belbulben,Tarla etc).Seems to me to be nearly universal that people are praising the attributes of the horse and see them for what they are fine racehorses,don,t know where you are getting that people don't realise its the horse.

Some really stupid posts here by some bitter people about jockeys
1. Are jockeys all the same at judging pace?
2. Have jockeys all the same strenght in a finish?
3. Can some jockeys see a stride better than others?
4. Have some jockeys soft hands and better riding style?
5. Do some jockeys react better to wasteing that others?
6. Have some jockeys more nerve, or is it possible to lose it?

get a grip and enjoy horse racing

Reference the ability of our native born jockeys in Ireland  , think it is fair to see that as a group , NH ( mainly) and flat they are the best in the world . Lots of this is down to the exposure to horses they get when they are very young . Plus breeding and contacts and native wit . Anyone knocking our jockeys and their success definitely belong to the begrudgers or pocket talkers brigade .
A lot of those riding now ( particularly NH ) are among the best I have seen in over 60 years interest in the horse racing scene . Long may it continue !

No sign of Peter Casey yet

The horses are very important and most jockeys could win on most horses that win. However at championship level when every little thing can make a difference jockeyship comes into it big time. I agree with you Kelly totally. Ambulances following them around while they work and armchair jockeys on here saying they are no good!

Duck, Ruby is the best ever?, It might sound simlistic but prove it?, see you can't?

simplistic actually!

I would have thought my 22.42 post last night would have negated the need for that question silver

Every time i see Casey being interviewed i shake my head, i don't believe he is even threatened with a brain. Good horse he has though, will he ruin it? Only time will tell but someone being careful with it so far.

Everytime I log in here & read some of the comments I shake my head, I don't believe some of the people who make them are even threatened with a brain.

Couldn't agree more.
gentlemanjohn is , as usual , bang on the money.

gentle, i heard him last night when i watched the race back as i was out visiting my aunty for lunch the previous day so did not see it to comment on it then, but the guys is infantile, the camera always stuck in his face straight after it wins because they know they'll get some stupid comment because well that's what he is. He does not have the presence of mind to understand this imo. I hope he wins all before him as i like to see the little trainer doing well.

I think gentleman John has summed up this thread perfectly.....i don't know how some people on here manage to dress themselves.

It's not the worst thread I've ever seen here by a long way, the discussion on the merits of jockeys actually had some potential until the all too predictable descent into malevolence & stupidity. Rocketfingers, you committed the basic error of judging a man's character through a couple of appearances on camera. Sure the sex jokes might already be wearing thin, but then this is a guy who should already be dead two times over so if the most he is guilty of is over exuberance then I'll happily forgive him a thousand sex jokes between now and next March if the horse he has trained very capably so far continues to do the business for him and connections.

The only infantile thing here is you dismissing a shrewd trainer and decent man as "that's what he is" and "does not have the presence of mind." Would you like me to judge your character on the basis of one nasty & ill-judged comment you have made here, the same way you have impugned Peter Casey's character after one brief interview he gave on television? If I was to do that, I can assure you it wouldn't be too flattering

Topfarrier -  'e knows ...but 'e ain't tellin'.

Yes sir , knows the time of day does our toppie.

Tbf gentle i never judged him on one interview nor even on 2, although i have to say i was starting to get ideas, as we can all say stupid things but it was actually the one at the weekend. If he wants to come on tv and conduct himself like that and give interviews like he has been then they'll be more than me thinking this guys an idiot, that may sound harsh but it's the truth. I'll stand by my comments until Casey gives me reason to think otherwise.

That's an incredibly insightful observation Vubiant.....

The interviews are not the best but should we not be judging him as a trainer of horses. So far with Flemenstar he has done very well. Impressed with the fact that he minded the horse last year which probably was important. Time will tell.

as good as interviews you get with most trainers. bit of crack as well.

ah come on,this  old codger is playing the gobshte from north county dublin.they are a strange breed in my experiance.always looking for the aggro.going out to play them in the fingal league in the summer mounths in my youth was a laugh.....but make no mistake this horse is top class and can win the gold cup if they have the courage to go for it.