Whatuthink and Voler all thats wrong with Irish racing!

Apoligies one of his shocking defeats was a flat race.

Voler La Vedette is a mare.

typo redbait, would you like to give an opinion on yesterdays race?

A typo is a slip of the finger that results in the wrong key being pressed. You typed "his" and "he" is the same sentance, so it wasn't a typo.

Not much to say about the race. The winner was given an enterprising ride that made the best of his race fitness, the mare was ridden patiently in an effort to not give her a hard race on her seasonal reappearance and wasn't able to reel in the winner on the day. Unexpected for sure, but such is racing. Each to their own, but anyone that would consider backing a mare making her seasonal reappearance on testing ground with much bigger targets ahead of her at 1/7 is a very brave punter.

fine then we'll call her a horse,

How about the almost unbelievable improvement from whatuthink?, should have been 66/1 not 25/1, once the Mullins horse was taken out the heavy hitters couldn't get enough of her, surely even an 80% fit VLV should have hosed up on the bridle?. The ground is no issue for this mare, but Colm Murphy left a tonne of work on her and the heavy hitters can go jump in the ocean as their money was dead before the race even began.

2 flat races,rated 14lb behind VLV so perhaps on the face of it wasn,t the greatest surprise, VLV had similar rated horses to the winner well behind yesterday.Your point is fair enough though he wasn,t entitled to beat her on any current form whatsoever.Your heading i,d disagree with as its melodramatic to say the least,hot favs get beat by outsiders,it does happen.
Other than that race yesterday the "Good" of Irish racing was shown with the rest of the card,with the decent novice hurdlers Sizing Rio and Our Conor,a breathtaking ride by Carberry in the beginners chase,an above average bumper winner and a good return by top prospect Flemenstar in the feature.

sg,
It is ill-advised to read too much into the industy SP's, as they are notoriously tight. Betfair SP is a much better reflection and his was 199/1. I couldn't tell you why Whatuthink bounced back to form, but the McKiernan horses tend to be very inconsistent for whatever reason and personally I find them very difficult to read. Regarding VLV, on her best form, of course she should have won, but any horse is vulnerable on their seasonal reappearance when not fully fit, especially in a well-run race as this one was. If they had gone steady, she probably would have won well, but there you go. Like I said, anyone getting seriously involved at 1/7 on a horse with that profile isn't going to be a winner in the long run, IMO.

Well we can be sure that the real VLV will turn up sometime soon.

Probably, but it wouldn't be a certainty. She is a mare that has a few miles on the clock and one should never take it for granted that such animals will automatically return to their best every season.

SG, what was your view on Casey bringing an "80%" fit Flemenstar to the races? He was obviously fit enough to win and is a top class horse, but if Aidan O'Brien said that (or did it with St Nicholas Abbey) you would be the first one calling for his lynching.

I've backed McKiernan no hopers the odd time. There is no rhyme or reason to it but they do pop up now and again. A bit like Oliver Brady horses over the last ten years. On that ground, its difficult to give distance when the one in front is not stopping.

well if Flemestar was only 80% and hosed up on the bridle, I dread to think how unfit VLV was?

Oh because its your first run of the season excuses a 1/7 shot getting turned over yeh?

Odds on chances get beaten all the time, look at Fairyhouse last Wednesday, Naas on Saturday and Limerick yesterday. VLV was given a fair ride and had every chance. She didnt know she was 1/7.

I feel the only story here is the winner and his recent form. Did the stewards at Navan ask a question? The fact the its not reported in the Examiner suggests they didnt and that may have been following consultation with the handicapper. Maybe.

Remember, there is no one batting for the punter. Ye are very much on your own.

did anybody dare ask?, in Hong Kong all hell would've been let loose, in Ireland ah well these things happen?

If horses could talk we might all be wiser.

In Hong Kong they live and breathe the punters money thats why trainers and jockeys can barely even breathe, in Ireland unfortunately they live on goverment handouts, why trainers and the authorities take the p!ss without turning a hair, but look out guys I need a shrink?

I'd like to think the win was more due the an opportunistic ride by Tom Doyle. He is very good on front runners. I done my dough at 1.16

Don't think anyone was taking the "p1ss" nor would i think "millions" backed her.She clearly underperformed, her kick wasn,t evident.Like us they clearly have "bad days", yesterday might have been one?

always an excuse guys?, the day when somebody grows a pair is the day wwhen punters might get a fu!king look in.

Millions upon millions of money is backed every day, surely that money deserves some protection don't you think?

Not some effing trainer who unfortunately has at least a million euro riding on a horse he never for one second even tried to win a race?, and he sleeps well that night, and the punter who lost his socks should except it as fact?, yeh except it guys, keep on excepeting it guys?

yre wasting yre time sil......the majority of these mugs are 2 euro punters,most likely dole merchants and OAPS.....thats why they dont give a sh1te

Why are you so angry silvergreaser -are you not able to handle the unpredictability of horse racing.

Why are you so angry silvergreaser ,,wake up,,because he bet the 7 on,,what else

Paulie.......The town of newbridge has always had a love/hate affair with gambling/racing and the influx of stable staff........It could be personal but silvergreaser seems to target/bad mouth those outside of the Curragh..

been very mild perhaps she was in season.

Thats why I'm angry its the apathy that galls me more than anything else, they can defraud on a daily basis and know full well that the so called authorities all sing from the same hymn sheet.

The authorities all own stud farms who sell to owners who put those horses in training ridden by jockeys, how in the name whatever god or any you believe in can you win?.

And the media sup sumptuous gravy, while remaining blind and deaf, because why bite the hand that feeds?.

i hear u sil .but yre dealing with nickel and dime merchants here...they dont fcking care .....its all about the next race!go in to any bookies in ireland and have a good look around u

Believe me rat I know that, I was virtually reared in a bookie shop, my mother spent virtually her whole life working for some bookmaker or other, I myself worked part time for donkeys years, I know the whole ins and outs, yet I'll never except that trainers can do what they want when they want, its wrong, but of course they know horses can't talk, the fail safe they fall back on time and time again, dare question them and they hit you with some sort of litigation threat, knowing full well the burden of proof is on you and as we said the dumb animal can't talk.

As mentioned Hong Kong, they routed the corruption so much so trainers and jockeys are but serfs, the punter is king, in Ireland the punter is a victim of apathy.

u have got to understand ,the mugs cant accept that they have been played for saps,although deep down they know itits like admitting that they are stupid cnts....what their wives have been saying for years.....hence the pretense of bullsh1te to defend their gambling

But are they not entitled to gamble regardless if their mugs rat?, its wrong that some horse trainer or other decides their faith, basically its not off today you poor dregs of society in the bookie shop, so go **** yourself.

Some of the nicest guys I ever met were betting shop fodder.

ok,the mugs here defended and made excuses for vlv defeat.....they dont fcking care ,so they are going to get what they deserve....its their money......they are entitled to a fair twist but they dont care.thats the point

Two losing punters, drunk as lords on a Monday night, trying to convince each other that the game is the problem, not their poor judgement. Lads, there are hundreds if not thousands of winning punters in Ireland that know how the game works. Anyone can make it pay if they open their eyes and are willing to learn, but some are too simple and/or stubborn to do that and are destined to lose, just like you too. Sad.

Fairly sure that silvergreaser is drunk most of the time.

SG, you decided to duck out of my question re Casey/O'Brien and their 80% fit horses. You have a view on most things, I'm surprised you didn't point this one out yourself. What's your view? Is it ok for the little guy to do it?

BI I'm sure Frankel wasn't a 100% for his debut this year, but at least fit enough to do himself justice ref Flemenstar, the messiah down Ballydoyle way sends horses to the racecourse not 80%, well considering they often run like 3 legged tortoises its fair to say they're something in the region of about 40%.

Oh yeh I like a drink, they do say that people are more honest with drink in them, truth serum, you should try it sometime, you've only got one life btw, you'll be dead sometime in the future and that is a fact, I despise political correctness from mere mortals.

If your pleasure in life is eating silvermints or cheese so be it, I like a drink and I feel no guilt whatsoever, in fact I'm off today and will probably drift down town for a few in the Granary pub with the philosphical drinker.

Redbait I've often won huge money for small stakes, I'm aware that not all races are corrupt but some are.

Trainers do send horses to the racecourse with no intention whatsoever of winning the race, basically trying to pull the wool over your eyes for their own selfish gain, but thats ok, its horse racing after all its inherently corrupt we should just except that fact and get on with it?, or maybe somebody with a pair can make a concerted effort to clean the stinking game up, like Hong Kong, they were infiltrated by criminal gangs, bought trainers and jockeys, did they just sit back and relax and say ah thats the way it is?, no they went for the jugular and routed the corruption from the face of the earth, so much so racing in Hong Kong is almost 100% clean these days, Irish racing will as always remain a guessing game, guessing which one is off today?.

Do you still bet on horse racing silver?

Yeh premier but mostly only w/ends, or when there is a big midweek meeting like say Ascot or Newmarket etc.

Racing has changed enormously, back say in the 80s you never really had anymore than a couple of meetings during the day, maybe 4 on a Saturday?, no Sunday racing, it was much easier to get your head around it, nowadays you're saturated with meetings daytime and night time, especially during the summer months, not to mention the introduction of the exchanges, which has made it almost impossible to get your head around.

To be honest I probably speculate more on sporting events these days, at least you know you've only got 3 outcomes, home win, away win or draw, Golf can be extremely difficult with 150 strong fields, but I generally have a small bet just for interest purposes, apart from say when Tiger was in his prime usually as short as 6/4 (no thanks), how many favs actually win a golf tournament?, very few, but a least you know its not a guessing game unlike horse racing.

I'm no big punter, I'm mostly a tenner each way punter, its what I can afford, gambling doesn't upset my family life, its my pocket money, mine to do as I see fit.

sg,
Do you not think that you would save yourself a lot of mental anguish by just leaving racing alone and betting on other sports instead?

Actually redbait by letting off steam on the Betfair forum is almost therapeutic.

Then again you might be doing racing a disservice if you by  chance are wrong and they was something wrong with the horse you know nothing about.

silvergreaser , i think you make some very good and interesting points , the problem is , lots of people on here don't want to see the reality that's staring them in the face , of course your point is valid , why should  ANY horse be sent to a race meeting not fully fit ....its against the rules for starters ....again i'm on your side , certain trainers seems to stick the finger up at authority ...punters both here and in britain are treated as second class citizens ....some on here think irish racing is 100% honest , i beg to differ ...we all have stories that can confirm same ....there are some honest trainers , and there are trainers who exploit the handicap system for their own benefit ......keep up the good fight ....

silvergreaser's modus operandi has become clear. Get up, still a bit merry, and make a few posts. Off down the town for a few pints, and when everyone in the pub is sick of listening to him, head for home with a few cans and post gibberish on here,  where no one will tell him to shut up and go home.

galwayman you have me off to a tee.

But can we say galwayman, that you do that yourself considering you know exactly how I operate?

We can say, based on the ample evidence that you have provided, that you and I are very different. I won't be engaging with you any further. Have a nice day.

Cheers!

BTW workrider thanks for the heads up, it can be a lonely place sometimes when you feel you're p!ssing against not just the wind but a Hurricane of apathetic apoligists.

Sad to see that only one person agrees with silver here,i'd never have guessed there were so many gullible folk in ireland.

Silvergreaser refers to us that don't agree with him as sheep.

no problem , as i say , don't let them get to you ....some trainers having a right laugh  at us punters knowing the'res nothing we can do...

.....i don't understand at all to be honest..if you really believe that trainers are laughing at punters..if you believe trainers are colluding with each other as other threads suggest..if you believe horses are not trying a lot of the time..well then why do you still bet on it?..surely if you believe this the clever thing to do is not to bet on it as all the form study is not worth anything then..but you still bet on it.....

its in the blood ..been going racing since knee high to a grasshopper ..love it ...warts and all...

SG, you just couldn't say it. Its not just O'Brien that is sending them unfit to the races. Even the little man held up as a decent honest to goodness fella is sending his star horse to the races well short, putting two fingers up to the punters. Why? Because that's what you do when you have a six/seven month season ahead of you and today is not the day. It just happens that Frankel and Flemenstar were good enough to win anyway, on the day. Note both were ridden close to the pace whereas SNA and VLV were both ridden way out of their ground. Its very hard to make up that sort of ground if your horse is short. Flemenstar and Frankel were able to get breathers.

redbait and galway dont like it up 'em!

Agree workrider.

4 hot shots beaten in the first 4 races at exeter..seems bad things happen in english racing too.

Think you are proved way off the mark in questioning VLV fitness first time out Silvergreaser if the hattons was anything to go by,looks as if she has regressed this season

one would have to ask does attempting to take on big bucks bottom out those who try?

Thats a good question,her two runs so far seen her use the one burst of speed and looking very one paced after.

Well then Whatuthink must be a stone wall certainty?