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29 Sep 12
19:54
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30 Jun 07
I've noticed this for many years but most of the McManus owned horses with good hurdle ratings who are sent chasing,are usually given a few schools in public and are usually out to get a mark. That is unless they have Grade 1 Potential. I had no bet in the race but today's 5.10 in Navan was a prime example !
SILVERHAND it has to be said in his favour wouldn't love the Ground,ideally he's best on good ground but has won on heavy ground ! This was his 3rd outing over fences and to say he got a quiet ride is an understatement. I accept that he's usually ridden from off the pace but he was a long way back in 9th at halfway,made headway into 7th 3 out, and was nursed into 4th on run-in ! He was easy enough to back as well. He is a fair tool and was 4th in The Coral Cup at Cheltenham last year runing off a mark of 139. I'd imagine after his 3 runs over fences he'll get a mark of 122 to 124 approx. But that's what they love !!
Note Pat Keane's comments on an other McManus Novice chaser in today's Irish examiner ,he pulled no punches. But hey Pat this is going on for Years ! The Media just never highlight it !!!
"That was a puzzling display by Gordon Elliott's Plan A when finishing second behind Special Tiara in a beginners’ chase at Ballinrobe on Monday.
His rider, Mark Walsh, seemed reluctant to give the outside to anyone else, the horse was only ninth going out into the country for the final time and was nearest at the end, beaten a length.
David Jennings, in his analysis in the Racing Post, didn't duck the issue. Said Jennings: "For a horse that travelled so sweetly in a Galway Hurdle, run at a frantic pace from the start, it was strange to see him so far out of his ground with a circuit to run. With the winner out on his feet after the last, he looked like he might get there, but his rider decided against giving him a few backhanders and he couldn't reel him in."
"Yes indeed, puzzling. "
In fact Mark Walsh gave another horse a scenic route ride in Galway in another Beginners Chase recently on the hotpot CARLINGFORD LOUGH rated 129 over hurdles looked a bar fall in the "Eventus Beginners S´chase" but again Mark Walsh, seemed reluctant to give the outside to anyone else and wasn't knocked about back in 3rd behind a horse rated 90 going into that contest.
There are hundreds of examples of this with horses going chasing in the famous JP Silks..So the advice is tread carefully..Avoid " The Live Dead Ones"
SILVERHAND it has to be said in his favour wouldn't love the Ground,ideally he's best on good ground but has won on heavy ground ! This was his 3rd outing over fences and to say he got a quiet ride is an understatement. I accept that he's usually ridden from off the pace but he was a long way back in 9th at halfway,made headway into 7th 3 out, and was nursed into 4th on run-in ! He was easy enough to back as well. He is a fair tool and was 4th in The Coral Cup at Cheltenham last year runing off a mark of 139. I'd imagine after his 3 runs over fences he'll get a mark of 122 to 124 approx. But that's what they love !!
Note Pat Keane's comments on an other McManus Novice chaser in today's Irish examiner ,he pulled no punches. But hey Pat this is going on for Years ! The Media just never highlight it !!!
"That was a puzzling display by Gordon Elliott's Plan A when finishing second behind Special Tiara in a beginners’ chase at Ballinrobe on Monday.
His rider, Mark Walsh, seemed reluctant to give the outside to anyone else, the horse was only ninth going out into the country for the final time and was nearest at the end, beaten a length.
David Jennings, in his analysis in the Racing Post, didn't duck the issue. Said Jennings: "For a horse that travelled so sweetly in a Galway Hurdle, run at a frantic pace from the start, it was strange to see him so far out of his ground with a circuit to run. With the winner out on his feet after the last, he looked like he might get there, but his rider decided against giving him a few backhanders and he couldn't reel him in."
"Yes indeed, puzzling. "
In fact Mark Walsh gave another horse a scenic route ride in Galway in another Beginners Chase recently on the hotpot CARLINGFORD LOUGH rated 129 over hurdles looked a bar fall in the "Eventus Beginners S´chase" but again Mark Walsh, seemed reluctant to give the outside to anyone else and wasn't knocked about back in 3rd behind a horse rated 90 going into that contest.
There are hundreds of examples of this with horses going chasing in the famous JP Silks..So the advice is tread carefully..Avoid " The Live Dead Ones"
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http://community.betfair.com/irish_sports/go/thread/view/94110/29168477/the-jaypee-tender-handling-thread
It's a disgrace. There is no integrity in Irish Racing.
It's a disgrace. There is no integrity in Irish Racing.
Great insight SB.
I will be keeping an eye out.
I will be keeping an eye out.
This has been going on for years and is hardly anything new. Same story in England with horses such as Reveillez.
I see you have mentioned that you are aware it is going on for years so the purpose is obviously to advice newcomers to the sport. I assume that ruby is one of those although he seems to be learning quite fast.
Very few of these JP horses are actually running on their merits and its hard to name a double figure amount that were campaigned as good horses when they were sent chasing.
Very few of these JP horses are actually running on their merits and its hard to name a double figure amount that were campaigned as good horses when they were sent chasing.
Well highlighted by SB and I have a little to add as well.
Not about any horse in particular but about a directive that went out from the boss last year along the line that the time for playing around is at an end.
Every horse now has to have a plan no matter how poor. No more of this buying horses for the sake of keeping fellas sweet. This game is being targeted as a revenue generator now that the tide has gone out a bit on the money markets.
Look for much more of this kind of thing as highlighted above and look to profit yourselves when they pull the trigger later on.
Not about any horse in particular but about a directive that went out from the boss last year along the line that the time for playing around is at an end.
Every horse now has to have a plan no matter how poor. No more of this buying horses for the sake of keeping fellas sweet. This game is being targeted as a revenue generator now that the tide has gone out a bit on the money markets.
Look for much more of this kind of thing as highlighted above and look to profit yourselves when they pull the trigger later on.
Yeah Bassanio, while I would be generally very suspect of McManus attentions I would have never have bothered to look into the actually running of these horses and the way they were ridden. I looked at Silverhand just there and that was very obvious I felt. Great to point out in such detail the riding of these beasts.
silverhands first effort over the larger obstacles was a sweet little effort,but in fairness his owner does some great things for charity,a man for the people,
Very serious question. When was the last time a horse carrying the McManus colours were stood down under the non trying rule? I have asked this to various people and I am unable to get an answer. The closest I could get was The Kop End but that didn't run in his colours that day in Leopardstown, even still it got turned over on appeal.
The execution is the same time and again. Make it look like the horse jumps poorly, fall back in the saddle after every fence as if you have just landed on all fours. Get detached, run up the arse of every horse you can find. Give up the outside to nothing. On the one hand can you blame him? They are letting him away with it time and again so what has he to fear? On the other hand it is some indictment of the racing authorities that they time and again continue to turn a blind eye to this sort of thing.
It is the same on the flat - do an analysis of how many of his horses miss the break or run up the arse of horses? The average racing punter doesn't have the benefit of the head on camera up the straight but the stewards do and should be taking action. Take a look at the ride Fran Berry gave Curly Wee on debut in Naas - i'd love to see the head on of it as from side on it was disgraceful.
In the short term the authorities obviously feel they are doing no harm. However, in the medium/long term they are killing the game. As an owner I am not given any encouragement to invest in the industry. I am sure others feel the same.
The execution is the same time and again. Make it look like the horse jumps poorly, fall back in the saddle after every fence as if you have just landed on all fours. Get detached, run up the arse of every horse you can find. Give up the outside to nothing. On the one hand can you blame him? They are letting him away with it time and again so what has he to fear? On the other hand it is some indictment of the racing authorities that they time and again continue to turn a blind eye to this sort of thing.
It is the same on the flat - do an analysis of how many of his horses miss the break or run up the arse of horses? The average racing punter doesn't have the benefit of the head on camera up the straight but the stewards do and should be taking action. Take a look at the ride Fran Berry gave Curly Wee on debut in Naas - i'd love to see the head on of it as from side on it was disgraceful.
In the short term the authorities obviously feel they are doing no harm. However, in the medium/long term they are killing the game. As an owner I am not given any encouragement to invest in the industry. I am sure others feel the same.
This is a cause worthy of silvergreaser sinking his teeth into imo.
Mark Walsh had a great chance of catching the leader on the run in on Plan A the other night if he would have even shown a modicum of interest to do so.The winner was threading water and he just barely shook the reins on the closing down runner up.
Pity the tv pictures didnt show Silverhand's terrible mistake at the second fence where he very nearly came down.
Pity the tv pictures didnt show Silverhand's terrible mistake at the second fence where he very nearly came down. where did this happen kilbeggan roscommon or today
FFS Stamford Bridge, you have a lot to learn if you have just only worked that out. After all the bogey tips you gave for Listowel I am surprised you are back on here. Your posts should come with a government health warning.
Was thinking the same thing myself the gotchee. This nonsense has been going on for the last twenty years with the sundance kids horses
So, are we saying that it has been 10 years since a horse in JP's silks has been banned? A quick glimpse at the RP site suggests that JP has had nearly 7,500 runners in Ireland since then. Contrary to the gist of this thread, he appears to be the most straight up operation on the planet!
I'll add Judge Roy Bean on Nov 24 2010 and Keepatem's first two starts over fences to the list. The stewards need to cop on.
I'll add Judge Roy Bean on Nov 24 2010 and Keepatem's first two starts over fences to the list. The stewards need to cop on.
I remember when Keepatem won the Paddy Power
Ran at Gowran the day of the Tingle Creek and didn't try a yard. Lands a huge punt at Leopardstown at Xmas. Always remember Ted's comments on the Gowran run, something along the lines of they were obviously happy with his mark & weren't too bothered at Gowran
Ditto Mini Sensation before he won the Welsh National
Ran at Gowran the day of the Tingle Creek and didn't try a yard. Lands a huge punt at Leopardstown at Xmas. Always remember Ted's comments on the Gowran run, something along the lines of they were obviously happy with his mark & weren't too bothered at Gowran
Ditto Mini Sensation before he won the Welsh National
Have a look at Twinlight race at Listowel,that's the way all novice chases are run in Ireland,why pick on JP when it is everyone,they handicap the horses themselves.
Silverhand was good enough to win a stakes race at the Curragh and earlier this year he ran a great race in the Coral Cup at the festival.In my opinion he isn't a natural jumper of hurdles or fences-his class and game attitude gets him into races even though I suppose you could argue he is a pig who races on and off the bridle.
If he wins a novice chase it will have to be a very soft race where he outclasses the opposition or due to an inspirational ride by Carberry.A handicap on decent ground with a proper gallop might be more his cup of tea but it's hard to see him being good enough for any of the big festivals.
I laid him for decent money yesterday and at Kilbeggan and in my opinion he was a trier both days-the fences just keep getting in his way.I would also point out that when he won at Galway over hurdles there literally wasn't a penny for him in the Market.
If he wins a novice chase it will have to be a very soft race where he outclasses the opposition or due to an inspirational ride by Carberry.A handicap on decent ground with a proper gallop might be more his cup of tea but it's hard to see him being good enough for any of the big festivals.
I laid him for decent money yesterday and at Kilbeggan and in my opinion he was a trier both days-the fences just keep getting in his way.I would also point out that when he won at Galway over hurdles there literally wasn't a penny for him in the Market.
I'd agree with Eddie. He loses momentum at lots of fences.he appears to travel well between fences but just doesn't make a good shape over them. He''ll struggle as a chaser, especially around the like of Navan, Leopardstown,etc
Having watched the replay, it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be. Like someone pointed out, the camera misses much of it, but if you look closely he seems to belt the second and loses lots of ground. Carberry rides very quiet even when he's on the most high-profile horses and can look like he's giving less encouragement than he actually is. The horse wasn't exactly gaining quickly at the line, so I wouldn't be roaring too much about it, myself.
1.01 -this thread to be pulled today,after all they are the untouchables.
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