id love to see them both in paris but doubt we will see either. agree frankel race at ascot will be nothing more than a good blow out. having said that im heading over to it. last chance to see this  beast in action . they dont happen along very often.

A poor ride by the young lad but what professional sportsperson doesn`t make mistakes? Oh wait!!! That person hasn`t been born yet!


Some of the posts on here really do give credence to the claim that Ireland is,in the main,a nation of begrudgers.


Anyway,Kingrat....I thought Crip got rid of you?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv_id8iEzUM

This forum has become a very weird place.

I do not believe young Joseph was in any way responsible for the defeat of Camelot . The horse was in the ideal spot at the 2 furlong marker and simply didnt produce the turn of foot he had shown at Newmarket and Epsom. Camelot is still a very good horse but maybe not the horse he looked as this does appear to be a truly dreadful crop of 3 year olds in the main i.e.he is the best of a bad lot.
The thing that does concern me though is Joseph O'Brien being asked to grow into top class adult rider too soon. The fact that the lad was too upset to talk to the media on Saturday is a worry. Maybe another season sharing the rides with Heffernan/O'Donoghue may have served him better long term. This young man is 19 years old and is in a high pressure job and doesn't have the detachment from the stable most top stable jockeys have.

A lot being asked of him indeed. I would presume though that the issues are talked out at home -i.e. it's put to Joseph and  he understands that there are potentially enormous implications arising from his every move especially anything that can be construed as a misjudgment. He can then decide if he wants to be in the hot seat or not.
He seems to have opted in and been accepted by the Coolmore club -so he'll have to learn to take the flak as well as the kudos ( and grow up pretty quickly).
I don't think he did anything amiss in the St.Leger -the same kind of maneouvres pop up every day without much comment except the usual second guessing . If there hadn't been the weight of historical expectation on it -the race would have hardly merited one tenth of the anguished commentary.
History failed to be made ? -well , er, ok ...looks like the sun came up this morning , the body count is zero ,
so let's get on with our lives and see what's around the next corner.

Vubiant ,just take a proper look at the Leger. Camelot cruising and goes for a run up the rail, have you not seen this ?
Camelot taken back to come outside,have you not seen these two manouvers /
Camelot is joined by the winner who for a split second keeps Camelot in, and then bang the winner has flown,goes 3 lengths clear, have you not seen this ?
Rider of Camelot caught napping, be in no doubt.
Best horse second.............

JayTrump, you are wasting your time trying to explain the obvious to some people around here. Love is blind.
One thing I did note, Camelot ran faster in the final furlong of the leger than he did in the final furlong of the 2000 guineas which would suggest he had plenty of horse under him but timed his run, as the pictures show, all too late. Palpable jockey error, best horse finished second.

I genuinely feel for the O'Brien children, I'm a parent myself, I never thought for one minute my daughter was my possesion, I love her but shes an individual.

Can hate be blind as well.
There is a fair difference between the good to firm ground at Doncaster and the soft ground at Newmarket.
The usual uplifting post from Kingrat.

It wasn`t good ground at Doncaster but no matter but there was some difference between the two which would explain the differing times plus the pace the repective races were run at.

I've watched it several times on youtube .
The salient points I see are as follows
a) If Joe had tried to come to the outside early in the straight he would have had to come three or four horses wide -to get outside the horse with the yellow cap.
b) In edging out later he lost very little momentum
c) Encke is being ridden from 3f out or so -because he has to be in order to get to the leaders
d) At the 2f pole Camelot is only a length behind Encke
e) At that point Camelot is only a length behind Encke
f) Joe starts pushing  but Encke goes another two lengths clear
g) Camelot does stay on but only with a gradual increasing impetus
h) Encke stays on stoutly but flattens out slightly in the last half furlong due to his earlier exertions which makes it appear that Camelot is accelerating when he is probably staying on at the same ( admittedly strong) pace

I have concluded that even if Camelot was ridden harder a furlong earlier or so he would have got closer at the finish but I doubt he would have won and I shudder to think of his having lost by a nose !

Further , Encke is not being given enough credit at all -people seem to think that the other horses/jockeys should have acted like bit players and step meekly aside as Camelot galloped into legend. Plus , no jockey can control or anticipate what another rider will do.
Camelot had two whole furlongs to get to the winner and could not do so . Any worthy triple crown aspirant would have done so. He ran a good and gallant race but according to the ratings may have been a few lbs below his best.
Blaming the defeat on the jockey is a misguided grasping at straws because many feel kinda cheated of witnessing an epic chapter in racing history.

You never get the truth if don't ask yourself!

silvergreaser -your views on the Coolmore/Ballydoyle operation have been made abundantly clear.
You may have good grounds for your disenchantment -I'm not in any position to adjudicate.
As a punter looking in from the outside -all I do is hail the achievement of Aidan O'Brien over the last dozen years or so in consistently turning out high grade winners year after year against yop international opposition. The stats are staggering . He's been champion trainer in the UK about 5 or 6 times already
Following on from this I have simply argued that what he has done is a good advertisement for brand Ireland around the world .
That's it . I have no views about the man's working philosophy or family dispositions that are of any more value than anyone else's and I think that's dangerous territory to venture on to in a forum like this.
I have been struck by the relentlessness of your tirades against him and how you put a negative -almost sinister-spin on virtually everything he does. Is it really necessary to be scoffing at an imagined godlike status you attribute to him -when I'm sure he would be the last to do anything like that himself. He is always at pains to pay tribute to the stable staff after any success and he invariably acknowledges how lucky he is .
I have no argument with you as such . I'm sure you have a deep  knowledge about the inner workings of the politics of Irish racing . It just seems strange to me that this is accompanied by such animus against one of Ireland's greatest racing  protagonists.
However -such is life. I'll try to steer clear of this topic henceforth -there's no point in constantly reiterating set positions.

nearly every season he has one like that it seems.
so you think last year, very special unique horse never had his likes before.
they had fallon saying dylan thomas was the best he'd ever ridden and murtagh saying duke of marmalade!
i wouldnt read too much into that. he has trained some fair beasts in fairness and i dont think camelot measures up to the likes of giants causeway, gallileo, high chapparal etc etc

so you stink mk2

whats the story aidan?do the decent thing and inform punters,will camelot run or not in the arc?

ah, gallo fck off or give me what you think you know.assssshoooollllleeee