AOB is gutted!

i think its sad to gloat kingrat....you had  wonderful chance to see a triple crown winner in your lifetime ...sure the kid got it wrong ...i wouldn't be his biggest fan , but by god he's some trainer ...the man has seen his and his sons dream destroyed .....a big man imo...

The pacemaker bit was just another after race sales pitch, the reason he didn't run one was because he wanted a steady run race, in fact I thought they went a right good clip anyway?.

Listen obviously my son made a horlicks of it.

Roll on next year for the next greatest horse I've ever trained.

tough titty wra triple crown.....a clean sweep of the classics.......up the spout because of sentiment! the greats in any discipline have ice in their veins

2 furlongs out Joseph was in a perfectly ok position and Encke lengthened and took 2-3 lengths out of Camelot very quickly. Hard to attach much blame to Joseph given that the better horse on the day won.

cant have that bassanio ...the best horse was 2nd imo...the lad was found wanting , just held onto it a little longer than he should ...

Jeez APOB put the Tango Man Simon Mapletoft in his place on ATR. Tango man probably boiled over tackling him so soon after the race.

shut up wonker ya complete tool ya......coolmore have no respect for the triple crown......they run national hunt sires in the leger........the only reason Camelot ran is because they didnt want to take on Frankel......they put up a buff rider then and he makes a bolllix of it......

Booby i think WR is right,Joe when switching outside the winner took a little too long to get after him( Camelot),if he reacted immeadiately he,d have won imo.

back to the ward with ya booby , n.h sires normally start their stud life at the age of 6 or 7....the st leger is for 3yos ONLY YA CLOWN....

no problem for the kid to make the weight at the curragh.....he will be throwing up all the way over

had him covered up way too long.

shouldve won. unfortunately its 1st place or nothing when going for a triple crown.  the jockey simply waited too long, travelled like an absolute dream, a long last off the bridle and did find but by then the winner was gone.

I think they played the poker of the century and nearly pulled it off. Imagine having to listen to the plaudits from the mainstream, the comparisons to NiJinsky etc..
We should be thankful for that much at least

As someone said on the other thread in 10 years time no-one will recall how bad the 3yos were this year and this monkey would have found himself a place amongst the greats.

That is what is gutting APOB. A little less poker and a bit more realism (run a pacemaker, tell the young fella to not to try and win on the bridle etc..) and they would have pulled it off.

yeah its true hes no nijinsky and still hasnt really beaten a good horse but he is a v good horse imo. on a personal note  and as a fan of horse racing id have liked to have seen a triple crown winer in my lifetime, the result may discoursge others from trying. i hope they go to the arc.

magnier and co are saying ,fck this ,something will have to be done..........there could be a split?........u know mrs o brien is a very head strong woman

Got blocked trying to come up the rail,had to pull back and try the outside,then left the Godolphin horse block him in, thus allowing the boy in blue first run,and a lead of more than 3 lengths, then got going to close to 3parts of a length...........and people on here think that JP did nuttin wrong ??? unbelievable as gary Neville would often say........ If you looked at JP's face coming in that said it all,complete **** up,and then we listen to the PAID Channel 4 commentators say Camelot wouldn't have won it at a mile and a half, and they agree on this !!!,I thought the race was an extended mile and six so who was trying to win at a mile and 4 ? pressure too much and an historic moment left go , very sad really,.......all very sad.........

best horse ,would not even place in the arc

Daddy was probably just as upset over his status not been elevated above God himself than Camelot's actual failure to grab the so called triple crown by becoming the first trainer in history to bag all 5 English classics in a season.

He was spitting "listens" faster than he could think when interviewed on CH4 after the race, the polite almost timid exterior he likes to portray to the media after a big race win was unraveling right before our eyes, maybe he's not all what people like to think he is?.

Sorry Aidan you haven't quite surpassed God just yet!.

a little strong silvergreaser , if having just seen the dream of training the 5 classics taken from him , plus the fact that that his son was about to come in for strong critism ...he did what all good fathers would do in the circumstances , he took the lot , he deflected attention from his son onto himself ....i cant understand people like yourself not understanding why he reacted like he did ...he was hurt and when people get hurt they react ...yes yesterday the mask slipped a little , but hey they guy had just seen his world fall apart ..i wouldn't be his biggest fan ..as a father myself i understood his pain....

I know workrider that he was putting up the defensive shield, you wouldn't expect any different to be honest, but he wasn't been defensive in a calm manner he was almost manic, you got the feeling if somebody asked the wrong question he would have lost the run of himself altogether?.

I believe the guy has become so self absorbed with the job he's doing he's become an almost ticking time bomb, he's long bought into the hype that the media adorned on him (the so called attention to detail) so much so the fear of failure all but consumes him.

His behaviour on the racecourses down the years suggests he's become a bit of a control freak, take all the other great flat trainers down the years, like Vincent, Henry, John Dunlop, Dick Hern, Michael Stoute all phenomenally successful trainers with good resources without coming within a country mile of the resources thats been available to Aidan over the last 12 year or so.

Would you see any of the above mentioned trainers insisting on saddling all his 8 runners in the Epsom Derby a few year back?, did any of the saddles slip on the Ballydoyle runners at the Curragh yesterday when Aidan was in Doncaster?, no of course not, virtually the first thing you learn when you come into a stable yard is how to put a saddle on a horse.

The jockey group huddles after walking the track, make sure you wear the customary dark shades just incase somebody might see your eyes talking?.

Jumping in and out of 4x4 jeeps, walkie talkie in hand to go down to the start at Newmarket to tell the vastly experienced Newmarket stall handlers and starter how they should do their jobs, the English authorities soon put a stop to that, not happy with doing that he went down to the start at the Curragh for the Irish 2000 guineas (George Washington) not just to tell them how to do their job but to actually show them how to do their job, I know a few of the guys who stall handle at the Curragh and believe me they were not one bit happy with the behaviour of the unwanted gatecrasher.
These trainers get them ready at home and once they arrive at the racetrack there's nothing more they can do apart from maybe walk the track a little, and then just wait til the race in question.
Dick Hern hardly walked the track as he was in a wheel chair for most of his training career, so would've relied on the trusted word of a colleague as to the state of the ground.

And you know what Aidan?, after all that it made not one iota of a difference to the horse in question.

I think the guy could do with a stiff drink and maybe some serious therapy?.

attention to detail , hardly a crime , the pressure that goes with his job is immense .. having to answer inane questions from half wits posing as journalists every ten seconds wouldn't help matters either...how he has kept himself from exploding is testament to his character ....i'm not interested in his home life , as a punter all i'm interested in is his results ..as i said already , not his biggest fan ...his record over the years says it all .....a fantastic trainer of racehorses ...

theres some sad cases here.gloating in a mans failure by 3/4 of a length to train a good(not great) 3yr old to a feat not achieved since the great nijinsky.and also a clean sweep of english classics.he wasnt born with a silver spoon in his mouth either remember.he trained average nh horses to unprecedented success.attention to detail?nothing wrong with that.thats what seperates the great from the good trainers.

Workrider, just curious.
If in your opinion he is such a good trainer who gets results and you have no intrest in his home life then for what reason are you not his biggest fan ?

do you not think he wears dark sunglasses to protect his eyes from the sun? just a thought.

sometimes i feel the horses dont run on their merits , i feel he has to work to order if you know what i mean .otherwise a smashing trainer  who gets the results he's paid to get ...

ye know what you mean.
I know its probaly not his doing but his constant bigging up of any decent one is getting extremely annoying now also.

Fat Al doesn't hide his contempt for the punter in todays racing post,says it all really.

thats how they sell stallions mate...hype and more hype..

one thing ill say about o brien is that at least he tried. he had the bottle to risk the horses repuation and he got beat.

cecil dodged race after race during frankels 3 yr old season to preserve the horses reputation. some will say thats good training but to me it just showed the fear he had of his horse gettin g beaten as well as the overall lack of confidence he had in his horse over the necessary tests. he was part right tho as he wouldnt have won the derby at that stage in his career, the horse didnt have the temprement for it but as the season went on he raced over the same trip again and again.

the same cannot be said for camelot and for that aob should be commended imo. instead everyone just laughs at him. had o brien campaigned frankel in EXACTLY the same way the entire forum would be turned on its head, frankel wouldnt be hailed as the horse he is and the trained would be lambasted as a bottler for not truly full filling the ability of the horse.

v few people on here a unbiased in one way or another.

For all the talk over yesterdays ride a few points overlooked.
Not only did they lose out on history but camelots reputation for breeding seriously harmed imo.

1 Horse very slow to quicken from in the main part moderate animals.

2 Held his head in the air when asked

3 For all his group ones question marks still remained in respect of standard of his age group and what he was beating. A triple crown would have overlooked a lot of these points and made him more marketable at whatever price they stand him for.

Im pretty sure had joseph been awake to how the race was panning out the horse would have won and saved his future lofty breeding fee being revised downward

I have to say ,silvergreaser, I hope I'm never on trial with you in the jury.
You make the most innocent activities sound like criminal offences . What's the problem with someone walking the track -it's been done for ages by many trainers and jockeys?  Likewise -is wearing shades some kind of dubious practice now ? How do we know he doesn't have a problem with his eyes in a glare ?
I didn't witness anything of what he did at starting stalls -but if he crossed any demarcation lines well then I presume he was made aware of it . Many would interpret this as exhibiting professional concern for the welfare of his runners to maximise their chances of a good result.
Maybe he is a bit obsessive but so what -what harm does that do anyone -that's a characteristic of many sportspeople who are at the pinnacle of their sport - Tiger Woods , Nick Faldo spring to mind.
I would humbly suggest that if anyone is in need of therapeutic intervention -it might just be your good self.
You should really try to divest yourself of this anti O'Brien mania -it's clearly eating you up in a most unhealthy way.

Hear, hear.

likewavingatbusses. are you serious about coolmore being brave in running camelot in a race against his own age group at2/5 fav instead of lining up at york over 10f against frankel.he ran against a load of dross yesterday and still got beaten by one of them .he may stay in training next year because he will race against the same again but if frankel had been kept in training for another year this lad would surely be headed straight to the barn.he ran only four times this year and dodged the master.

hang on a second now, if we want to talk about dodging the issue, surely frankel is the prime example. for christ sake if there was any sport in them at all he would be heading to paris and then california, and not heading for another cakewalk in his own back yard. jesus the furthest hes went from home is york

i could see him being retired.
cant see him winning an arc or group 1 against older horses.
if he stays around for next year theres a good chance the 3yo crop will be better than this years and with weight for age he could have enough on his plate.
With montjeu having died and this fellow being the obvious replacement his reputation might be protected against further loss. if he goes on to lose a few more his stallion prospects will take a hit so dont be surprised if you dont see him again.

i think the plan was always to run him in the arc and i have a hunch it is why he was beaten yesterday.

of course im serious.

they had a dual classic winner in their hands and was also unbeaten and they risked this by going up in trip. to make matters worse he proved he did stay but he didnt win.

ffs frankel is the king of dodging. had he actually taken in a normal classic campaign like the usual talented 3 yr old middle distance types he'd have lost his unbeaten rec in the derby. hes 4 he has 1 race left and the last race he had was the first time he raced beyond a mile, absolutely laughable campaign orchestrated so he could remain unbeaten. now he runs in the champion stakes against dross hes already beaten.

pathetic!

both dodgers then.

if camelot runs in arc against all aged then i take it all back ,win lose or draw. but for me yesterday looked a soft touch before hand. (still also think he should have won it).

they went for it with camelot they never went for it with frankel. the diff being frankel is truly exception but has a LOT of poxy mile races on his cv instead of the ones that really matter and now its too late!

i hope he goes for the arc.

another race that frankel would undoubtly be hard to beat if he turned up but yet again his connections are afraid.

it is perhaps a tad diff this time however given henrys health so perhaps we cant entirely blame them but adding the champion does nothing for frankel, its the arc or nothing.if  he wins the arc by like he does every othe rrace it'll be hard for anyone to say hes not the greatest we've ever seen even taking in to account the p!ss easy races over a mile again and again.

id love to see them both in paris but doubt we will see either. agree frankel race at ascot will be nothing more than a good blow out. having said that im heading over to it. last chance to see this  beast in action . they dont happen along very often.

We know Kingrat to be wrong on most things but this time not alone is he wrong as usual but nasty and unpleasant whilst so doing.Gloating at a young mans misfortune,referring to him getting sick to lose weight tells us plenty about the well named Kingrat,blaming Joseph OBrien for Camelots defeat also tells us about his race reading abilities.
Joseph OBrien was in no way to blame for Camelots defeat it was all the fault of Encke and Mickael Barzalona.

A poor ride by the young lad but what professional sportsperson doesn`t make mistakes? Oh wait!!! That person hasn`t been born yet!


Some of the posts on here really do give credence to the claim that Ireland is,in the main,a nation of begrudgers.


Anyway,Kingrat....I thought Crip got rid of you?

OK Vubiant we'll have a competition, me and the fruit cake.

Who do you really think needs psychiatric help?, well listen its obvious don't you know?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv_id8iEzUM

I'm always touched by your presence dear?

This forum has become a very weird place.

ffs!...wildman bore...its a bit early to be in a drunken stupor

I do not believe young Joseph was in any way responsible for the defeat of Camelot . The horse was in the ideal spot at the 2 furlong marker and simply didnt produce the turn of foot he had shown at Newmarket and Epsom. Camelot is still a very good horse but maybe not the horse he looked as this does appear to be a truly dreadful crop of 3 year olds in the main i.e.he is the best of a bad lot.
The thing that does concern me though is Joseph O'Brien being asked to grow into top class adult rider too soon. The fact that the lad was too upset to talk to the media on Saturday is a worry. Maybe another season sharing the rides with Heffernan/O'Donoghue may have served him better long term. This young man is 19 years old and is in a high pressure job and doesn't have the detachment from the stable most top stable jockeys have.

I would say that he was told not to speak to the media rather than too upset to. The story had to be prepared rather than have some off the cuff remark uttered by a young lad just after being beaten in a big race.

A lot being asked of him indeed. I would presume though that the issues are talked out at home -i.e. it's put to Joseph and  he understands that there are potentially enormous implications arising from his every move especially anything that can be construed as a misjudgment. He can then decide if he wants to be in the hot seat or not.
He seems to have opted in and been accepted by the Coolmore club -so he'll have to learn to take the flak as well as the kudos ( and grow up pretty quickly).
I don't think he did anything amiss in the St.Leger -the same kind of maneouvres pop up every day without much comment except the usual second guessing . If there hadn't been the weight of historical expectation on it -the race would have hardly merited one tenth of the anguished commentary.
History failed to be made ? -well , er, ok ...looks like the sun came up this morning , the body count is zero ,
so let's get on with our lives and see what's around the next corner.

The poor chap never really stood a chance, as Daddy dictates every breath he takes!

Vubiant ,just take a proper look at the Leger. Camelot cruising and goes for a run up the rail, have you not seen this ?
Camelot taken back to come outside,have you not seen these two manouvers /
Camelot is joined by the winner who for a split second keeps Camelot in, and then bang the winner has flown,goes 3 lengths clear, have you not seen this ?
Rider of Camelot caught napping, be in no doubt.
Best horse second.............

It's all well and good been a good parent, but there is a buffer zone, when do you think you can let your children think for themselves?.

JayTrump, you are wasting your time trying to explain the obvious to some people around here. Love is blind.
One thing I did note, Camelot ran faster in the final furlong of the leger than he did in the final furlong of the 2000 guineas which would suggest he had plenty of horse under him but timed his run, as the pictures show, all too late. Palpable jockey error, best horse finished second.

i believe the reason why the kid could not be interviewed post race was cos he sht in his pants and had to make a hastily retreat

I genuinely feel for the O'Brien children, I'm a parent myself, I never thought for one minute my daughter was my possesion, I love her but shes an individual.

Saw a close up of him after the race,the young fella,s face was a picture of absolute devastation.

Can hate be blind as well.
There is a fair difference between the good to firm ground at Doncaster and the soft ground at Newmarket.
The usual uplifting post from Kingrat.

Good at Donny and Good to Soft at Newmarket.

It wasn`t good ground at Doncaster but no matter but there was some difference between the two which would explain the differing times plus the pace the repective races were run at.

Its ok guys if you wear the pioneer badge, you as a child really never stood a chance

I've watched it several times on youtube .
The salient points I see are as follows
a) If Joe had tried to come to the outside early in the straight he would have had to come three or four horses wide -to get outside the horse with the yellow cap.
b) In edging out later he lost very little momentum
c) Encke is being ridden from 3f out or so -because he has to be in order to get to the leaders
d) At the 2f pole Camelot is only a length behind Encke
e) At that point Camelot is only a length behind Encke
f) Joe starts pushing  but Encke goes another two lengths clear
g) Camelot does stay on but only with a gradual increasing impetus
h) Encke stays on stoutly but flattens out slightly in the last half furlong due to his earlier exertions which makes it appear that Camelot is accelerating when he is probably staying on at the same ( admittedly strong) pace

I have concluded that even if Camelot was ridden harder a furlong earlier or so he would have got closer at the finish but I doubt he would have won and I shudder to think of his having lost by a nose !

Further , Encke is not being given enough credit at all -people seem to think that the other horses/jockeys should have acted like bit players and step meekly aside as Camelot galloped into legend. Plus , no jockey can control or anticipate what another rider will do.
Camelot had two whole furlongs to get to the winner and could not do so . Any worthy triple crown aspirant would have done so. He ran a good and gallant race but according to the ratings may have been a few lbs below his best.
Blaming the defeat on the jockey is a misguided grasping at straws because many feel kinda cheated of witnessing an epic chapter in racing history.

vubiant I'm inclined to agree with you, but I still think Aidan is a total nut job?, you want honesty well you got it

You never get the truth if don't ask yourself!

you

silvergreaser -your views on the Coolmore/Ballydoyle operation have been made abundantly clear.
You may have good grounds for your disenchantment -I'm not in any position to adjudicate.
As a punter looking in from the outside -all I do is hail the achievement of Aidan O'Brien over the last dozen years or so in consistently turning out high grade winners year after year against yop international opposition. The stats are staggering . He's been champion trainer in the UK about 5 or 6 times already
Following on from this I have simply argued that what he has done is a good advertisement for brand Ireland around the world .
That's it . I have no views about the man's working philosophy or family dispositions that are of any more value than anyone else's and I think that's dangerous territory to venture on to in a forum like this.
I have been struck by the relentlessness of your tirades against him and how you put a negative -almost sinister-spin on virtually everything he does. Is it really necessary to be scoffing at an imagined godlike status you attribute to him -when I'm sure he would be the last to do anything like that himself. He is always at pains to pay tribute to the stable staff after any success and he invariably acknowledges how lucky he is .
I have no argument with you as such . I'm sure you have a deep  knowledge about the inner workings of the politics of Irish racing . It just seems strange to me that this is accompanied by such animus against one of Ireland's greatest racing  protagonists.
However -such is life. I'll try to steer clear of this topic henceforth -there's no point in constantly reiterating set positions.

AOB is on record that camelot is the best hes ever trained and thus i presume magnier and co think the same.if that is true ,they have to run it in the arc to redeem its reputation after the leger fiasco.i think its only right and proper that coolmore inform punters of the plan.

nearly every season he has one like that it seems.
so you think last year, very special unique horse never had his likes before.
they had fallon saying dylan thomas was the best he'd ever ridden and murtagh saying duke of marmalade!
i wouldnt read too much into that. he has trained some fair beasts in fairness and i dont think camelot measures up to the likes of giants causeway, gallileo, high chapparal etc etc

spot on mitch and next year he will have another "best ever"

so you stink mk2

Kingrat has to be the most gullible poster here,may be an asylum seeker,Magnier tells Aidan OBrien what to say,they are following a noble tradition because in Vincent's day Pat Edderry came up with the greatest ever once every season.

whats the story aidan?do the decent thing and inform punters,will camelot run or not in the arc?

KR...you`re making Wildman`s claims of your gullibility look accurate...surely you`re aware of Coolmore`s plans for Camelot?

ah, gallo fck off or give me what you think you know.assssshoooollllleeee