Irish Sports
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
02 Sep 12
21:02
Joined:
Date Joined:
30 Nov 10
Controversial yes but before ye lose your collective minds consider the facts.When the Aga Khan bought the best of Marcel Boussacs breeding stock he increased his horses threefold,he distributed his horses between France,England and Ireland.Marcel Boussac was dominant in French racing,was leading owner and breeder numerous times,with the new injection of blood the Aga Khan took over that role,in England he was also successful and won three Epsom Derbies in the first eight years,in Ireland he won next to nothing but he did have extensive stud interests here so seemed not to mind.Then in 1989 the Aga Khans filly Aliysa was disqualifies from the Oaks after testing positive,he removed all his horses from England,the main beneficiary of this madness was John Oxx.Now with a much enhanced string of the best bred horses in the world Oxx proceeded to win nothing,well maybe you could count Manntari winning the National Stakes as a two year old.The horses were badly trained,badly placed and under performing,he was saved an ignominious sacking by the arrival of Sinndar a champion and later Alamshar not such a champion but he had a decade of abject failure.
Sinndar and Sea The Stars have saved this trainers reputation but when you consider he inherited a stable that was paid for and full with good horses and great owners I would contend his career has been a huge disappointment.
Sinndar and Sea The Stars have saved this trainers reputation but when you consider he inherited a stable that was paid for and full with good horses and great owners I would contend his career has been a huge disappointment.
Show More
Sep 6, 2012 -- 1:37AM, wildmanfromborneo wrote:
That's more of a statement than a question.Where are these alleged lies,you complain about stalking yet you descend on a racing thread of my making,make no relevant post just the usual obsessions and yet somehow your paranoid mind thinks you are being stalked.I accept it's a long thread but read it and reflect.
wildmanfromborneo • September 6, 2012 12:02 AM BST
Strange a thread on bookmakers and the man who claimed to be a wealthy bookmaker with an in depth knowledge of bookmaking has no comment to make only his usual obsession.
wildmanfromborneo • September 5, 2012 11:52 PM BST
Never Give Up you tried that before and got caught,you posted a winning selection two minutes after the race was over on the racing forum Onlooker exposed you,your post about it being 1.01 was made after you read my post on the racing forum,it really is sad and pathetic that you so desire affirmation you have to cheat to get winners.
You have yet to create a thread about racing you just descend on some poster and Harry them,your first quarry was Lazarus and you made over 5000 posts in that pursuit,you then transferred your stalking to me,your latest seems to be Money Tree the same format a regurgitation after regurgitation of posts followed by the usual claims of sexual deviancy.
Never Give Up you tried that before and got caught,you posted a winning selection two minutes after the race was over on the racing forum Onlooker exposed you,your post about it being 1.01 was made after you read my post on the racing forum,it really is sad and pathetic that you so desire affirmation you have to cheat to get winners.
You have yet to create a thread about racing you just descend on some poster and Harry them,your first quarry was Lazarus and you made over 5000 posts in that pursuit,you then transferred your stalking to me,your latest seems to be Money Tree the same format a regurgitation after regurgitation of posts followed by the usual claims of sexual deviancy.
still waiting for ur proof lair/wildbore/dark rosaleen sick freak
maybe u had a couple of pints bought to u in the horse and jockey tonight and ur to tired to answer
Super trainer imo.
if the horse is good enough it will achieve its potential.
if the horse is good enough it will achieve its potential.
Some very good posts on here - pity the thread has been runined as most threads on here are by a few childish posters.
john oxx relies on other people to tell him where to run!!!!!!!!
yeah if he had his way sinndar would have won his maiden round sligo
what a spaceman u are wildmug
yeah if he had his way sinndar would have won his maiden round sligo
what a spaceman u are wildmug
didnt they say allduck was running a pub one time in rathkeale......how do ya get a degree doing that......think wildman is right......the next fella saying he is a graduate will be wonker......
allduck ran kathleens bar in rath caola thriving pub
Bobby as sure as there's a hole in your arse I have never ran a pub and you could count on one hand the number of times i've been in kathleens in my life. The name over the door has been charge of that establishment for as long as I can remember. ML85 I wouldn't say there is any thriving pub in that town at this stage. I know who ye are on about alrite but as far as i'm aware he's been somewhere on the east coast of the states for a couple of years at this stage so sorry to burst your bubble. If ye were as cute as ye thought ye were then ye'd would have known that.
I don't particularly care if a manic depressive such as yourself bobby believes me or not because it matters little. You just keep posting your vitriolic rants if that makes you happy.
I don't particularly care if a manic depressive such as yourself bobby believes me or not because it matters little. You just keep posting your vitriolic rants if that makes you happy.
MissLimerick I think Alamshar won his maiden at Listowel,he was originally second string but they withdrew the favourite and yet he still started at around 6/1,after he won the usual quote he is a big baby.
Gamblers have this idea because they follow form so does everybody else in racing but its not true,some trainers and jockeys don't know what their horses are running against,it is normally the gambling stables that are the keen students of form.
Charles Byrnes is widely regarded as the best gambling trainer,correctly in my view yet bookmakers will take him on for what he wants when he strays from his own horses.He was a bookmaker before he was a trainer and that particular venture ended in tears.Imagine if Byrnes had charge of the Oxx string for a few months he would have cleaned out the ring taken the chains for fortunes and got himself barred from all shops.
Gamblers have this idea because they follow form so does everybody else in racing but its not true,some trainers and jockeys don't know what their horses are running against,it is normally the gambling stables that are the keen students of form.
Charles Byrnes is widely regarded as the best gambling trainer,correctly in my view yet bookmakers will take him on for what he wants when he strays from his own horses.He was a bookmaker before he was a trainer and that particular venture ended in tears.Imagine if Byrnes had charge of the Oxx string for a few months he would have cleaned out the ring taken the chains for fortunes and got himself barred from all shops.
Interesting thread Wildman although i'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong.
I know John Oxx and i can tell you that not only is he an absolute gent that goes out of his way to help any young lad
getting started but is also that there is no better trainer....trainer the Aga's breed of horse is
not as easy as you might think it should be.
I know John Oxx and i can tell you that not only is he an absolute gent that goes out of his way to help any young lad
getting started but is also that there is no better trainer....trainer the Aga's breed of horse is
not as easy as you might think it should be.
I accept the point about him being decent and stated it from the outset,I am judging him by high standards but respect your opinion nonetheless.
Congrats Wildmanfromborneo it's only taken you 3 pages of people telling you how wrong you are before admitting it yourself that you were wrong.
Fair enough Wildman but i have to point out that your comment that he relied on Mick to tell him where to run his horses is
nonsense tbh not that is a lot of choice here in Ireland about where to run horses anyway and trainer's certainly don't need
to any sort of form genius.......unless you're happy to just be regarded as a 'gambling' trainer which of course Charles
Byrnes is and John Oxx most certainly isn't.
nonsense tbh not that is a lot of choice here in Ireland about where to run horses anyway and trainer's certainly don't need
to any sort of form genius.......unless you're happy to just be regarded as a 'gambling' trainer which of course Charles
Byrnes is and John Oxx most certainly isn't.
ya seem a little irate allduckornodinner......i dont know who you are at all........i just remember people saying u ran a pub in rathkeale......they seemed to know u......was just wondering where the degree came out of.......lot of people with degrees here now.......wildman doesnt believe u for one......neither do i........as for kathleens.......never heard of it.....did hear of rathkeale alright......thats the place where all the lads and their cousins live......
No not irate at all bobby, much too nice to day to be irate. I am however a little tired and bemused that yet another thread has been hijacked by a select few for the sake of very petty squabbling, a sentiment shared by others too obviously judging from some posts. I remember that alrite. Those lads must have thought there was only one racing person in west limerick for whatever reason. I'm sure you have heard this before but you shouldn't believe everything you read, as you say yourself an awful lot of **** is talked on here at times. If you are that interested in my degree then I can tell you that is was procured from the university in the peoples republic. In fact two or three of my classmates are on your beloved sars team that seems to be standing you twenty grand. One of my former lecturers, a former All-Ireland winner for cork in the early 90's, is even a selector for sars to boot as far as I know.
Now if you have anything to say about the merits of John Oxx as a trainer or in fact any opinion at all on what has been discussed in what had largely been an interesting thread then by all means go ahead. If however you or the others plan on continuing with the side-snipping and childishness then please find your way onto another thread.
Now if you have anything to say about the merits of John Oxx as a trainer or in fact any opinion at all on what has been discussed in what had largely been an interesting thread then by all means go ahead. If however you or the others plan on continuing with the side-snipping and childishness then please find your way onto another thread.
there should be no need to continue this thread. john oxx is a great trainer. simple as and end of.
too many on here with way too much time on their hands.
too many on here with way too much time on their hands.
Jeez 40 replies since, I don't think there is a pub in Newbridge that ever refused me entry?.
Personally I think wildman is talking total boll!!x regarding Oxx.
Oxx can train so can Aidan, but then again a rocking horse could train a good horse.
But the media will have me think that they're after pulling off some sort of a super human feat by winning a group 1 race witn the best horse in the race.
Johnny Murtagh is a group 1 jockey, but he wasn't a group 1 jockey before he won his first group 1?, I'm sure Shane Foley would be a multiple group 1 jockey if he was giving the ride on the best 3yr Camelot?.
Personally I think wildman is talking total boll!!x regarding Oxx.
Oxx can train so can Aidan, but then again a rocking horse could train a good horse.
But the media will have me think that they're after pulling off some sort of a super human feat by winning a group 1 race witn the best horse in the race.
Johnny Murtagh is a group 1 jockey, but he wasn't a group 1 jockey before he won his first group 1?, I'm sure Shane Foley would be a multiple group 1 jockey if he was giving the ride on the best 3yr Camelot?.
i am very happy that this point has been brought up as john oxx has been very disappointing since his great year of 2009 in which he had much more going thatn just STS. i was willing to excuse 2010 as a hangover as sorts but when murtagh got the retainer the aga khan said in a interview or maybe it was murtagh said, but anyway the aga khan had promised to send better class of horse to oxx and had said that he had taken his eye of the ball in ieland and murtagh said he was very excited about this prospect and so was i. at th start of the tear i really thought that oxx would have a much stronger string with this renewed faith put in him ny the aga khan, maybe the summer has hampered this and his string need good ground or maybe its the vakid point that a long of his stock arnt by the most fashionable sires with dr fong and Oratorio among them, id have expected that oxx would have many more high class dalakani;s as his type are oxx down to the ground, not much as 2yr olds but improve so much at 3. despite all this i am willing to allow oxx another 2 seasons until get to he point of wmfb. loving the sideshow btw
i guess sometimes u just dont have the horses.
what races should oxx have won and with what horses since sea the stars?
and what races did he perhaps send the wrong horses to?
any races where horses were campaigned in entirely the wrong races? trip ground etc?
what races should oxx have won and with what horses since sea the stars?
and what races did he perhaps send the wrong horses to?
any races where horses were campaigned in entirely the wrong races? trip ground etc?
wow allduck studied in china can u speak the language ???
ilwab thats exactly it, remove god from godville and see how many group one winners he trains?, all the saddling of 8 horses all by his self for the Epsom Derby, the walking up and down various racetracks with dark shaded jockeys and family in tow, the group huddles, the jumping in and out of 4x4's at Newmarket etc mobile phone in hand to tell the stall handlers how to their job, not to mention the attempt at trying to do (hands on) the job of the vastly experienced Curragh stall handlers with George Washington (lucky he wasn't given a swift one on the bridge of his nose?) didn't make the horse in question run any faster than he can already run, and all the time Henry Cecil looks on from the stands and Frankel didn't get any slower, in fact he got faster with no need for the so called attention to detail so bestowed upon the messianic one because Henry knows without a good horse you're nothing!.
i like aidan but he is not THAT special imo. i dont mind if he sends 2 or 3 to win races if he has the resources and provided they are running on their merits bar the obvious pacemaker but it cant be THAT hard to remain in the publics consciousness with all thee blue bloods. if John Oxx htoo over ballydoyle tomorow he would do as good a job and prob better imo.
John Oxx had the best bred horses in the world for nearly ten years and won little,if he went to Ballydoyle he would last a month,they are a commercial operation and need to make money,the Aga Khan is not and has never made money.
If Aidan OBrien had charge of the Oxx stables in the nineties he would have won numerous classics,like Oxx predecessors did in the eighties.
If Aidan OBrien had charge of the Oxx stables in the nineties he would have won numerous classics,like Oxx predecessors did in the eighties.
To be fair to Oxx the quality is not there.............Sheikh Mohammad, Hamdan, Khalid Abdullah and now the Aga Khan are running scared of the Ballydoyle machine..........Trainers getting scraps and token box fillers.
Now on to our 4th page of a stupid question that Wildman asked and was answered in the first post or two. He has since managed to keep it going by nit picking at people's posts i.e. mine when i said i got paid in Euro and obviously it should have been punts when coming back from Uni to bet Sinndar. Honestly i think BF should lock this and then warn Wildclown on his future behavior on the forums.
Hold on look at threads he starts and what i start, worlds apart. I start betting threads he starts these rubbish threads, then people give their opinion (Foolishly) and he then hit picks at their posts, starts a fight a row, then the likes of you who never miss an opportunity of kicking a man on the ground come in, Wildclown with numbers behind him gets a 2nd wind and all of a sudden we've got 4 pages of nonsense. And on the 4th page he (wildclown)is still dribbling his opinion about why Oxx is a 'poor trainer' even though to a man, eveybody on the forum told him he is talking carp, you could not make it up !
But Rocketfingers you are the top dog around here.............comedy gold.
Rocketfingers it's called a discussion something you are incapable of and it is being done without rancour.
You descended on with a post full of lies designed to portray yourself as a gambler,a mathematics graduate,a ladies man and a drinker when you are none of these.Dont take this as an insult because you are entertaining your latest gem is on an Anaglogs Daughter thread when you whined about it being too long and could he shorten it for you,some graduate.
You descended on with a post full of lies designed to portray yourself as a gambler,a mathematics graduate,a ladies man and a drinker when you are none of these.Dont take this as an insult because you are entertaining your latest gem is on an Anaglogs Daughter thread when you whined about it being too long and could he shorten it for you,some graduate.
Surely Saturdays performance at the Curragh makes my point.
John Oxx has a 75 year old owner who has just sacked a great jockey and is in a mini crisis,he attends the Curragh and Oxx can only muster 3 runners and naturally no winners,it is this inability to target races and vary his placing of horses that makes him so disappointing.Any other trainer would have run a few others and would certainly have made the mile two year old maiden a priority,yet he managed to make a complete bags of it,first mistake was running his own horse Stepwise,imagine if that beast had pipped the Aga Khans,would surely have tipped an already cross owner over the edge,the second mistake was not giving Zand a few more educational gallops,the third mistake which may have been out of his control was putting Christophe Lemaire on Zand his inexperience of the Curragh found him out.
Having said all that his two horses ran with some promise and are near certain winners next time out providing he doesn't run them against each other.
John Oxx has a 75 year old owner who has just sacked a great jockey and is in a mini crisis,he attends the Curragh and Oxx can only muster 3 runners and naturally no winners,it is this inability to target races and vary his placing of horses that makes him so disappointing.Any other trainer would have run a few others and would certainly have made the mile two year old maiden a priority,yet he managed to make a complete bags of it,first mistake was running his own horse Stepwise,imagine if that beast had pipped the Aga Khans,would surely have tipped an already cross owner over the edge,the second mistake was not giving Zand a few more educational gallops,the third mistake which may have been out of his control was putting Christophe Lemaire on Zand his inexperience of the Curragh found him out.
Having said all that his two horses ran with some promise and are near certain winners next time out providing he doesn't run them against each other.
how many horses did u train wildbore ????????????????
Can you explain what an 'educational' gallop is please Wildman.......i'd love to know....
Badly worded alright but the point i was trying to make was that bearing in mind the circumstances you would think that Oxx would have Zand ready to run for his life and whilst he ran a sledger he patently needed the run.
Did you not think it was a huge risk running his own horse against the Aga Khans risking a repeat of the performance that caused the furore in the first place.
Did you not think it was a huge risk running his own horse against the Aga Khans risking a repeat of the performance that caused the furore in the first place.
A prescient thread.
John Oxx is finished as a trainer he has had a dozen winners this year,his main owner The Aga Khan is ageing and rapidly losing interest so the laid back approach he had will be gone,Oxx takes his time doesn't run two year olds til late in the season so unable to train a precocious horse.
I can't see how he can carry on training so expect a retirement soon.
John Oxx is finished as a trainer he has had a dozen winners this year,his main owner The Aga Khan is ageing and rapidly losing interest so the laid back approach he had will be gone,Oxx takes his time doesn't run two year olds til late in the season so unable to train a precocious horse.
I can't see how he can carry on training so expect a retirement soon.
He is speaking quite highly of the two year olds he has, and if they have the ability he won't mismanage them. Can't see how you would think he is finished wildman. The STS filly he is running in the opening maiden has a Moyglare entry.
I wouldn't mind the 12 winners, the man deals in proper horses, not rubbish. He has stated that the 3-y-o are ordinary this term, they've probably taken time too, expect a strong back-end. the man is far from finished.
I wouldn't mind the 12 winners, the man deals in proper horses, not rubbish. He has stated that the 3-y-o are ordinary this term, they've probably taken time too, expect a strong back-end. the man is far from finished.
He may be dealing in proper horses but one he trains for Sheikh Mohammed Papaya is now trying to break her duck in Tramore having failed previously in Limerick and Wexford.
He is in a slump and were the Aga Khan to cut back his horses or have more of them trained in France that would spell the end.
He is in a slump and were the Aga Khan to cut back his horses or have more of them trained in France that would spell the end.
They all have their share with little ability though I accept that if he is going to get another real one, it will probably be from Tsui or the Aga. The fact the Aga is keeping a retained jockey in Ireland should give him some hope. I've high regard for him since STS, I haven't seen better handling of a top horse, most of them always throw in a bad run as they aren't peaked properly, even Frankel, who nearly got beaten at Ascot in the St James Palace(brain dead ride by Queally accepted)
he trained three superstars........amazour, sea the stars and sinndarr so he knows how to handle a real good one.
i would argue against the belief that he had at his disposal a magnificent stock of horses because he trained for the aga khan. as pointed out already, they are homebreds. a completely different situation to that of ballydoyle whose stock is based on coolmore buying left right and centre.
i would argue against the belief that he had at his disposal a magnificent stock of horses because he trained for the aga khan. as pointed out already, they are homebreds. a completely different situation to that of ballydoyle whose stock is based on coolmore buying left right and centre.
ridgewood pearl would be in the superstar bracket too.
Aga Khan not only cutting back but sending a few to Dermot Weld even he is losing patience.
The difference between a great trainer and an ordinary one illustrated perfectly on Sunday by Dermot Weld.
He gets some Aga Khan two year olds for the first time this year,does so under controversial circumstances,he knows from past history that Aga Khan two year olds are rarely precocious ( Mantari an exception ) he finds a softish race has a filly ready to run for her life result a seven length win for Balisiya.
He could have just been lucky,she could be a real champion but I just think it was Dermot Weld making sure of a winning start.
When you contrast that with the day the Aga Khan travelled over to the Curragh last year loaded for bear and Oxx could not only not provide a winner could hardly muster a runner,he even managed to further antagonise the Aga Khan by running one of his own horses against him,'twas the grace of god it didnt triumph.
He gets some Aga Khan two year olds for the first time this year,does so under controversial circumstances,he knows from past history that Aga Khan two year olds are rarely precocious ( Mantari an exception ) he finds a softish race has a filly ready to run for her life result a seven length win for Balisiya.
He could have just been lucky,she could be a real champion but I just think it was Dermot Weld making sure of a winning start.
When you contrast that with the day the Aga Khan travelled over to the Curragh last year loaded for bear and Oxx could not only not provide a winner could hardly muster a runner,he even managed to further antagonise the Aga Khan by running one of his own horses against him,'twas the grace of god it didnt triumph.
For the sake of balance, I'd add that Weld has had the support of Juddmonte(to me a far more potent force than the Aga Khan these times) for the bones of 5 years and has had only Famous Name, Emulous and Sapphire none of whom he could win a Classic with. Weld is a great man to give a horse time, (the easiest thing in the world to do imo) but top end flat racing is about deadlines and that is part of the reason why Weld isn't at the top table any more.
AOB has great raw material, but he is expected to have them ready for May every year often after contending with a bad winter. It is something Oxx has proven himself able to do as well, but isn't a thing Weld chooses to contend with. He is a grand fella to land a punt and he has some touch with auld geldings (eg. Ansar, his present Gold cup winner? who was all out to beat a Coolmore NH stallion), but he completely misjudged Free Eagle this season for one. The last horse of real account he had was Grey Swallow, he has won nothing of real bona fide prestige in the last 10-15 years meanwhile John Oxx has won everything in Europe. Weld has incredible longevity, but oxx has had the better career for as long as I've been watching. I don't really like the Melbourne Cup as a race I should probably add
AOB has great raw material, but he is expected to have them ready for May every year often after contending with a bad winter. It is something Oxx has proven himself able to do as well, but isn't a thing Weld chooses to contend with. He is a grand fella to land a punt and he has some touch with auld geldings (eg. Ansar, his present Gold cup winner? who was all out to beat a Coolmore NH stallion), but he completely misjudged Free Eagle this season for one. The last horse of real account he had was Grey Swallow, he has won nothing of real bona fide prestige in the last 10-15 years meanwhile John Oxx has won everything in Europe. Weld has incredible longevity, but oxx has had the better career for as long as I've been watching. I don't really like the Melbourne Cup as a race I should probably add
Weld did train refuse to bend to win the English 2000 gns......but the fact of the matter is......oxx is now and always was a better trainer than weld.......and he has won more prestigious races right now......than weld will......if he lives to be 500.......
Missed one of course!! I wouldn't really cite the two fillies winning Irish Classics Bethrah/Nightime, good and all training performances that they were. Dubai Prince might have been his one that got through the net.
It must take a lot for the Aga Khan to start packing up shop.
Operation is falling apart...another terrible year. I like John Oxx as a man but as horse trainer I dont have much time for him. His excuses year in year out are getting very tiring.
Hand it over to the son...
Operation is falling apart...another terrible year. I like John Oxx as a man but as horse trainer I dont have much time for him. His excuses year in year out are getting very tiring.
Hand it over to the son...
ffs only 4 years ago he produced a horse to win the 2000 Guineas, Derby, Eclipse, Juddmonte, Champion Stakes and Arc in 1 season - yes the horse was an absolute superstar but to produce the horse to win 6 of Europe's biggest group 1s in 6 months takes some bloody doing, now seemingly he don't know what he is doing 
ffs there is no middle ground on here is there, it's either the best ride in the world and best training performace ever or ya simply don't know what you're doing, maybe he just has not had the ammunition recently? i find it hard to believe with all the big races he has won he does not know what he is doing.
ffs there is no middle ground on here is there, it's either the best ride in the world and best training performace ever or ya simply don't know what you're doing, maybe he just has not had the ammunition recently? i find it hard to believe with all the big races he has won he does not know what he is doing.
PF.....Begrudgers. We have one clown on here comparing magicians win to a finish at wolverhampton.
Ruby......What excuses does John Oxx trot out year after year.
Ruby......What excuses does John Oxx trot out year after year.
Gant, you might look before you leap, I don't take too kindly to been called a clown when I'm not.
Yes it looked good when Magician came wide and late, but its something that happens in racing everyday of the week, and Ryan Moore comes out with one of the best I've ever ridden, getting caught up in the moment or what?.
Yes it looked good when Magician came wide and late, but its something that happens in racing everyday of the week, and Ryan Moore comes out with one of the best I've ever ridden, getting caught up in the moment or what?.
Oxx is not a better trainer than Weld and Weld is going to show Oxx up with this batch of horses of the Aga Khans.
Dermot Weld is one of the most innovative trainers of all time,'twas he started this travelling all over the world.
He brought Go And Go a moderate beast over to win the Belmont Stakes in 1990,three years later he won the Melbourne Cup with Vintage Crop,he won the big race in Hong Kong later with Additional Risk and followed up with another Melbourne Cup with Media Puzzle.
These feats have opened the door for all these international races,he was the first to target them.
His home record isint too dusty either,he is a great trainer and has been for forty years.
Dermot Weld is one of the most innovative trainers of all time,'twas he started this travelling all over the world.
He brought Go And Go a moderate beast over to win the Belmont Stakes in 1990,three years later he won the Melbourne Cup with Vintage Crop,he won the big race in Hong Kong later with Additional Risk and followed up with another Melbourne Cup with Media Puzzle.
These feats have opened the door for all these international races,he was the first to target them.
His home record isint too dusty either,he is a great trainer and has been for forty years.
he is a good trainer......that's not in question......but just not in the same league as Oxx.......their records prove it.......Oxx has won races that weld could only dream about......
If the Aga Khan had give Dermot Weld his string in 1990 he would have won Classic after Classic.
The fact is not alone had The Aga Khan the best bred horses in the world but he bought the best bred string ever to come up for sale at the time,this huge expansion took place at the same time he was boycotting Britain over the Aliysa affair.
He had huge numbers with Oxx who had a solo run for ten years and he produced nothing,he had three Epsom Derby winners trained in Eangland in the preceding ten years yet Oxx came up with nothing a National Stakes winner in Mantari.
The fact is not alone had The Aga Khan the best bred horses in the world but he bought the best bred string ever to come up for sale at the time,this huge expansion took place at the same time he was boycotting Britain over the Aliysa affair.
He had huge numbers with Oxx who had a solo run for ten years and he produced nothing,he had three Epsom Derby winners trained in Eangland in the preceding ten years yet Oxx came up with nothing a National Stakes winner in Mantari.
Has the Aga Khan sent Oxx any of the Lagardere family if that is the string that you refer to?
I cannot think of any off hand and he has enjoyed a large portion of his success over the past number of years as a result ofthe purchase of this racing empire.
I cannot think of any off hand and he has enjoyed a large portion of his success over the past number of years as a result ofthe purchase of this racing empire.
The Aga Khan bought the Marcel Boussac string around 1990 with some of the best broodmares in the world,Oxx got the bulk of them.
Ah you are going further back, but that was surely in the early 80s or I would recall it?
It could well be but the boost to his breeding operation would be filtering through in the nineties,the time John Oxx had over a hundred Aga Khan horses in his stable,indeed he had to have a satellite stable to cope and in my opinion he didnt.
From a quick scan of tbheritage etc it seems this was a very early 80s purchase by the Aga Khan and the first results were the likes of Darshaan. Oxx was not training for the Aga Khan back as far as 1983 was he?
Don't mind that wanka distant......wildman makes it up as he goes along......as ya will already know.....its like talking to the wall.....utterly pointless........hes never wrong......never ever......shouts his fat gob off without the slightest consideration.....ya oxx never won fukk all except the English derby twice.....the arc.....2000 gns......breeders cups....king George.....mother of jesus......what race didn't he win ya numpty.....
His results in the 90s were far from spectacular alright, with Timarida, Adjarelli, Ebadiyla being some of the few that I can think of that were top class during that period.
He did produce some nice hurdlers like Chirkpar though!
He did produce some nice hurdlers like Chirkpar though!
He won every one of the races that you would really want to win and has had a great ability to get the most out of a horse that is top class as he proved with Sinndar, Sea The Stars and did extremely well with the likes of Azamour.
The ratio of winners to runners for the owner may not have been good, but the manner in which the Aga Khan used stallions meant that he was always going to produce an awful lot of rubbish. He has never been like Coolmore and used commercial stallions and was very much a try and see if it works type breeder, using all manner of stallions. It works spectacularly sometimes but will fail a lot more.
He has probably got some of the best results out of stallions like Grand Lodge, Desert Style, Priolo, Refuse to Bend but I would guess he has produced more garbage than any other breeder in history as well.
The French results have always been better but volume would have a big part to play in that, although Dupre has enjoyed some great success.
It is worth nothing that other than Kalanisi and Daliapour (to some extent), Stoute produced very little for him either when he returned to the UK. He got a ready made winner from Cumani in Daliapour, so his record was dreadful for the Aga at a time when he flying high at the top of the trainer's list in the UK.
The ratio of winners to runners for the owner may not have been good, but the manner in which the Aga Khan used stallions meant that he was always going to produce an awful lot of rubbish. He has never been like Coolmore and used commercial stallions and was very much a try and see if it works type breeder, using all manner of stallions. It works spectacularly sometimes but will fail a lot more.
He has probably got some of the best results out of stallions like Grand Lodge, Desert Style, Priolo, Refuse to Bend but I would guess he has produced more garbage than any other breeder in history as well.
The French results have always been better but volume would have a big part to play in that, although Dupre has enjoyed some great success.
It is worth nothing that other than Kalanisi and Daliapour (to some extent), Stoute produced very little for him either when he returned to the UK. He got a ready made winner from Cumani in Daliapour, so his record was dreadful for the Aga at a time when he flying high at the top of the trainer's list in the UK.
Paulie Wallnuts read the thread.
Everything is relative,I have previously stated that Sinndar and Alamshar saved him from the sack and Sea The Stars has saved his reputation.
The fact is if the Aga Khans operation was a commercial one Oxx would not have been given time.
John Oxx decent man that he is would not last a season in Ballydoyle.
Everything is relative,I have previously stated that Sinndar and Alamshar saved him from the sack and Sea The Stars has saved his reputation.
The fact is if the Aga Khans operation was a commercial one Oxx would not have been given time.
John Oxx decent man that he is would not last a season in Ballydoyle.
distant view puts up a great argument.......but the other bulldog will hav the answers.....as he always does.....no consideration for the fact that oxx wasn't getting first pick of the aga's horses......the French trainers were......same as weld doesn't get hamdans best.....no we can forget about all that......because this Wildman ape has a bee in his bonnet with Oxx......because he lost a few bob on his horses at some stage......
Its a discussion that's all.
Distant View does make valid points and he is correct in pointing out that when the Aga Khan sent horses back to England they didnt do well.
Paulie Wallnuts also makes the point about the French trainers getting the pick and whilst that is true now it wasn't always so.
I like John Oxx but don't think he is as good a trainer as either Dermot Weld or Aiden OBrien.
Distant View does make valid points and he is correct in pointing out that when the Aga Khan sent horses back to England they didnt do well.
Paulie Wallnuts also makes the point about the French trainers getting the pick and whilst that is true now it wasn't always so.
I like John Oxx but don't think he is as good a trainer as either Dermot Weld or Aiden OBrien.
Horse trainers are vastly overrated anyway and their good horses vastly underrated.
The Bowe boys made a mockery of the so called sophistication to the art of horse training.
Oxx was the bees knees after STS but hasn't had a decent one since, maybe My Tatania might be decent next year?, but they don't possess a magic wand that can make slow horses go fast.
Look at the awful training of a horse called Snow Queen?.
The Bowe boys made a mockery of the so called sophistication to the art of horse training.
Oxx was the bees knees after STS but hasn't had a decent one since, maybe My Tatania might be decent next year?, but they don't possess a magic wand that can make slow horses go fast.
Look at the awful training of a horse called Snow Queen?.
If you owned a gr1 horse Wildman who would you have train him...weld or Oxx?..........I've lost count of how many impressive first time out 2 yr old winners Weld has trained that have turned out to be useless.
Saved him from the sack......what the fukk are ya talking about......that's more auld pub talk that ya go on with........in fact the aga has a history of being irrational......sacked murtagh......a great idea wasn't it........sacked soumillon.....sacked lemaire......and sacked all the English trainers over a dispute with BHA.....now reinstated soumillon again......what a cockk he is.....
Paulie I will ask you again to read the thread.
The Aga Khan never sacked his English trainers,his sacking of John Murtagh was silly but justified as there was a conflict of interest,it wasn't the cleverest thing whooping and hollering when a horse of your own beats one of your employers.
I would send it to Weld with reservations.
The Aga Khan never sacked his English trainers,his sacking of John Murtagh was silly but justified as there was a conflict of interest,it wasn't the cleverest thing whooping and hollering when a horse of your own beats one of your employers.
I would send it to Weld with reservations.
he removed his horses from cumani which is as good as giving him the sack. it was over horses testing positive for banned substances i think, and cumani couldnt give a guarantee that it wouldnt happen again.
i dont know why stoute got no more.
i dont know why stoute got no more.
silvergreaser
05 Nov 13 11:41
Joined:
11 Feb 10
| Topic/replies: 7,119 | Blogger: silvergreaser's blog
Horse trainers are vastly overrated anyway and their good horses vastly underrated.
The Bowe boys made a mockery of the so called sophistication to the art of horse training.
Oxx was the bees knees after STS but hasn't had a decent one since, maybe My Tatania might be decent next year?, but they don't possess a magic wand that can make slow horses go fast.
Look at the awful training of a horse called Snow Queen?.
Silvergreaser..........Don't fall for the old flat cap and bit a straw in the mouth lark. The Bowe's just didn't gallop up the side of a hill, they had the use of very good facilities.............but it looked great.
05 Nov 13 11:41
Joined:
11 Feb 10
| Topic/replies: 7,119 | Blogger: silvergreaser's blog
Horse trainers are vastly overrated anyway and their good horses vastly underrated.
The Bowe boys made a mockery of the so called sophistication to the art of horse training.
Oxx was the bees knees after STS but hasn't had a decent one since, maybe My Tatania might be decent next year?, but they don't possess a magic wand that can make slow horses go fast.
Look at the awful training of a horse called Snow Queen?.
Silvergreaser..........Don't fall for the old flat cap and bit a straw in the mouth lark. The Bowe's just didn't gallop up the side of a hill, they had the use of very good facilities.............but it looked great.
John Oxx's comments summarised every year when asked about his 2yr old.
"a little backward"
"cold/wet winter held us up"
" had a little cough in spring"
"we like a few but we don't know yet
"we don't press them at home"
I have heard these phrases or something close to them from Mr Oxx nearly everything when Gary O Brien asks a few pointed questions.
With regards Dermot Weld he overhypes his horses clearly...but I am certain he have better results than Oxx will manage over the next 5 seasons. I love to see Oxx win something sooner or later but we might have a Henry Cecil curve of slide in trainer form I think.
"a little backward"
"cold/wet winter held us up"
" had a little cough in spring"
"we like a few but we don't know yet
"we don't press them at home"
I have heard these phrases or something close to them from Mr Oxx nearly everything when Gary O Brien asks a few pointed questions.
With regards Dermot Weld he overhypes his horses clearly...but I am certain he have better results than Oxx will manage over the next 5 seasons. I love to see Oxx win something sooner or later but we might have a Henry Cecil curve of slide in trainer form I think.
if youre going to judge a trainer by his comments ruby then i dont know where you'll leave aidan o'brien.
ah sure listen,obviously, privileged, pleasure, the lads will make a decision etc.
i find weld to be fairly repetitive too.
it doesnt change the fact that all three are good at their job. it all boils down to having the right material.
wildman makes reference to the best bred horses that oxx received but i dont recall many of the aga khan cast offs that left oxx improving leaps and bounds to any great extent.
ah sure listen,obviously, privileged, pleasure, the lads will make a decision etc.
i find weld to be fairly repetitive too.
it doesnt change the fact that all three are good at their job. it all boils down to having the right material.
wildman makes reference to the best bred horses that oxx received but i dont recall many of the aga khan cast offs that left oxx improving leaps and bounds to any great extent.
It all boils down to been in the right place at the right time, like a jockey a few high profile wins can be the making of you, or in Joseph O'Briens case....nepotism
Going handy on the sauce and turning up on time also helps.
No this has nothing to do with Aidan O Brien. We all no what he says is gibberish.
Oxx always has some sort of little excuse....nothing has ever gone to plan other than Sea The Stars and you start to wonder when he thought Arazan and Mouryan were not far behind him how good a horse Sea The Stars actually was. I think the horse was in same calibre as Frankel in terms of raw ability.
Look Oxx is one of the most privliged trainers in Ireland for decades...and his results are ****. Pure and Simple....the Aga Khan has been loyal too loyal IMO. Pack all the horses off to France or give them to Bolger/Weld and in fairness Halford has done well considering he gets the pits of the talent availible.
John Oxx has had 18 winner on the Irish Flat according to the racing post this season. That is soooo bad I cant even believe that is correct? is that correct can anyone perform??....that is much worse than i thought. ****g hell
Oxx always has some sort of little excuse....nothing has ever gone to plan other than Sea The Stars and you start to wonder when he thought Arazan and Mouryan were not far behind him how good a horse Sea The Stars actually was. I think the horse was in same calibre as Frankel in terms of raw ability.
Look Oxx is one of the most privliged trainers in Ireland for decades...and his results are ****. Pure and Simple....the Aga Khan has been loyal too loyal IMO. Pack all the horses off to France or give them to Bolger/Weld and in fairness Halford has done well considering he gets the pits of the talent availible.
John Oxx has had 18 winner on the Irish Flat according to the racing post this season. That is soooo bad I cant even believe that is correct? is that correct can anyone perform??....that is much worse than i thought. ****g hell
Never drank a drop in your life Gant I presume?, pot kettle and all that.
Is nepotism the most powerful force in Irish racing, even more powerful than Magnier himself?.
Who really pulls the strings at Coolmore/Ballydoyle?
Is nepotism the most powerful force in Irish racing, even more powerful than Magnier himself?.
Who really pulls the strings at Coolmore/Ballydoyle?
Maybe he should campaign his horses like gigginstown, chase the euro and run the nuts out of the horses.
its no secret about the virus that was there. you have to make allowances.
Silvergreaser.......What are you on about. Just because I mentioned drink it's not directed at you.
Living on the edge of the Curragh you should know about all the lads that were as good as MJK or Murtagh..........but the excuse is always drink or laziness.
Living on the edge of the Curragh you should know about all the lads that were as good as MJK or Murtagh..........but the excuse is always drink or laziness.
Silvergreaser...........I couldn't give a toss about the money men at Coolmore.
last 5 irish flat seasons strike rate
o brien 21%
oxx 18%
weld 15%
bolger 12%
o brien 21%
oxx 18%
weld 15%
bolger 12%
Gant Murtagh was no saint himself when it came to alcohol.
Yes I know many a guy who had a few rides up the Curragh but drink ruined it for them, I had a first cousin who had potential had a few rides on the Curragh but the gene got the better of him .
Yes I know many a guy who had a few rides up the Curragh but drink ruined it for them, I had a first cousin who had potential had a few rides on the Curragh but the gene got the better of him .
Gant your comment about Gigginstown is a strange one considering John Oxx yard had a huge attrition rate in recent years. Numerous virsus etc....you want to take a good look at the controls and procedures at that yard.
Giggy runs there horses a lot and should be applauded to do so...quite a few of John Oxxs never make it to the track and when they do we never see them again.
Giggy runs there horses a lot and should be applauded to do so...quite a few of John Oxxs never make it to the track and when they do we never see them again.
When Oxx continued to use Murtagh after the Aga dispensed with Murtagh's services I'd say combined with a couple of bad years (maybe Oxx hadn't the ammunition) sealed the deal.
You don't suddenly forget how to train a horse.
You don't suddenly forget how to train a horse.
The vast majority of Oxx AGA KHAN Horses end up hurdling,That just proves how rubbish they are.
With every day that passes Dermot Weld is proving the prescience of this thread.
This is right up here with the time Wildman started a thread laughing at someone tipping up Joseph O'Brien for the jockey title at 9/2, only for O'Brien to oblige
He may not have been the best jockey but he had the best and most ammo and guns, Wildman failed to see this and ignorantly wrote him off and was made looked like Mr Muggins.
He may not have been the best jockey but he had the best and most ammo and guns, Wildman failed to see this and ignorantly wrote him off and was made looked like Mr Muggins.
Joseph OBrien got 4 winners on his first day holding a licence.
John Oxx hasn't had a winner this year,none.
Meanwhile Weld wins the Derby with an Aga Khan horse.
John Oxx hasn't had a winner this year,none.
Meanwhile Weld wins the Derby with an Aga Khan horse.
No doubt John Oxx has seen better days, Its hard to get to the top ;but its much harder to stay there.
Yes and its a terrible sad state of affairs , maybe its because people expect a quicker return on their money than yesteryear .You don't become a bad trainer over night ,he had virus issues which didn't help.
It's very hard to say what happened to John Oxx but up to the time he trained for the AK (2014 from an arbitrary base year of 2000) he had a strike-rate of 17% and 23% in Ireland and the UK respectively. This compares to Weld's strike-rate over the same period of 15% and 12% which covers 15 years.
The Oxx decline can be traced to 2013 when he finished 14th in the trainers' table compared to an average of 4th for most of the earlier years.
Oxx handled superstars exceptionally well and from a purists point of view all the Melbourne Cups in the world won't hold a candle to an Epsom Derby. I'm not sure what went wrong but Oxx can feel aggrieved in my book.
In looking back at some stats recently for some Arab and US owners in Ireland you can say Weld has under-performed with literally dozens of horses owned by Hamdan, Juddmonte, Calumet Farm and even Ronan Lambe's huge annual investment. He never got near an Epsom winner and it wasn't from a lackof the main starting point-a decent pedigree.
The Oxx decline can be traced to 2013 when he finished 14th in the trainers' table compared to an average of 4th for most of the earlier years.
Oxx handled superstars exceptionally well and from a purists point of view all the Melbourne Cups in the world won't hold a candle to an Epsom Derby. I'm not sure what went wrong but Oxx can feel aggrieved in my book.
In looking back at some stats recently for some Arab and US owners in Ireland you can say Weld has under-performed with literally dozens of horses owned by Hamdan, Juddmonte, Calumet Farm and even Ronan Lambe's huge annual investment. He never got near an Epsom winner and it wasn't from a lackof the main starting point-a decent pedigree.
Would prefer past prime to poor as a description. But you now call him shot. People allude a lot on here to the juice. I could never see John Oxx using the juice. I wonder is there anything in it. No winners yet is astonishing though. Oxxs legacy is cemented anyway as RA mentioned and whatismore, most people like John Oxx.
Royal Academy must have been on holidays when Harzand won the Derby.
He also uses the word arbitrarily when picking the year 2000 for some of his stats,it certainly doesn't look that way.
The thrust of the whole argument was the time John Oxx had all the Aga Khans horses in these islands and that was the nineties.
No one denies he is a nice man but the point was he inherited a stable full of horses with some of the best owners in Ireland,no debt.
Weld is a far better trainer,more innovative more adaptable.
Throughout Welds long career he has always managed to have a great jockey as his stable jockey,not so Oxx.
He also uses the word arbitrarily when picking the year 2000 for some of his stats,it certainly doesn't look that way.
The thrust of the whole argument was the time John Oxx had all the Aga Khans horses in these islands and that was the nineties.
No one denies he is a nice man but the point was he inherited a stable full of horses with some of the best owners in Ireland,no debt.
Weld is a far better trainer,more innovative more adaptable.
Throughout Welds long career he has always managed to have a great jockey as his stable jockey,not so Oxx.
Was Oxx not firmly on the wane before Sea The Stars came along. He had one other promising horse at around a mile and then Alandi developed into a high stayer, but he was already a shadow of the stable that he had been. The fact that he seems to be a nice man seems to mean that he escapes criticism that others might get but apparently the quality of workrider used down for many years now, the pay that they receive etc is poor and there was no reduction in fees charged?
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539