Borneo, clear this up for me please

Believe me racism and sexism are alive and well amongst the youth of this country make no mistake.

Correct bleekerstreet..........We are living in cuckoo land if people think the influx of ethnic groups has changed the Irish mindset.

Some serious abuse given to the minorities in our national games. Gant you will confirm this.

It's not as bad as it was a few years ago..........The soccer is bad down our way and clashes between the travellers and Africans are common on winter Sunday mornings.

Chin from Wexford would disagree with that.

U can't call him that

Rocketfingers.......That was bad but at least 2 lads got done and he lined out for the county team........Poor Zayed was forced out.

Forced out, what are you talking about? He got a great deal in Iran. Fair play to him.

Did he tell lies about the abuse.........He is playing in front of 2 months worth of loi crowds every home game........a huge step up for the man........Nice to see 15 Sligomen playing in front of 25000 +.

Yes in a 23k crowd gant

Poor enough crowd considering we had nearly that in the Aviva for the cup final.

I suppose some will now say the  GAA team will be forever in our shadows.

interesting points about the youth vote in Europe.  I would imagine the economic situation is a main instigator of what is something of a protest vote, not that ingrained rcism doen't play some part

I think economic reasons are the main instigators but the scale of this protest vote has surprised me. The phrase coined was crisis racism where suddenly the immigrant who worked alongside you is suddenly considered a competitor in the job market. Opportunists equate such immigration with economic woe and quite shamefully large swathes of the youth demographic have bought into this way of thought.

Rocketfingers.........I said 15 Sligomen..........You must be blue in the face telling us about the cup final crowd every week........The GAA seem to have a couple of your cup finals every weekend.

We know Ozymandius to be intelligent and reasonable yet on this topic all this has gone out the window.
He asks am I a racial supremacist,he should ask it of himself,he thinks you cannot call anyone black,you can't say someone is from Thailand because of some unknown connotations,he calls this the white mans burden.Whether he likes it are not this is classic racism as he believes his race are subject to more stringent rules and the inferior races need special protection.
The new tyranny is the stopping of certain thoughts and the idea that thinking something is worse than action.The highly paid heads of these immigration agencies don't see the irony of their racism when they plead for all Nigerians to be let in here as asylum seekers because Nigeria is so barbaric they all must flee this barbarism.

What's the first thing a Nigerian does when he/she is granted leave to remain/asylum.........They go back to Nigeria for a holiday.......some joke.

thats true gant , at this very minute a friend of mine has just returned from holiday at home in nigeria ..he came here got asylum and all that goes with it , now he goes back most years...btw he one of the few nigerians i know who works ...he a muslim and also a real nice guy to be fair ...but milked the asylum  system for all it was worth ,he knows that and will tell you to your face that we irish are easy to hoodwink..he started out trying for asylum in holland but was moved on very quickly ..ended up in uk failed there as well ..came here and said it was easy to get asylum ...but i still like the guy ...

Spot on Workrider.........The Eurodac fingerprint system would have caught out asylum shoppers over the years.
The Irish Born Child rule was the biggest scam until the Irish people voted to get rid of it.
It's amazing that a recession in Ireland has stabalised things in Nige

Borneo,

Your argument is along the lines of that frequently offered by those much less intelligent than yourself.  It goes something like;

"Well, he can call me a white c**t if he likes, see if I care". 

I surely don't need to explain why this is preposterous?

If you think certain people need special laws for them and their race can't be mentioned its because you think them inferior,why else would they need this special protection.
John Terry was brought to court for use of the word black,if he had knocked him out with a blow there would have been no court case,it's got Orwellian.

I do not see block people as inferior, however sections of society continue to do so.

Racism can be defined as “...a highly organized system of 'race'-based group privilege that operates at every level of society and is held together by a sophisticated ideology of color/'race' supremacy.

Until racism is eradicated, special protections are required.

When you are trying to offend someone, when you add the descriptive 'black' to 'c*nt' it is because you deem the phrase 'black c*nt' o be more offensive than merely calling him a 'c*nt'. Ergo you see being black as offensive and you are helping to reinforce racist views within society.

In order to eradicate racism, such behaviour should not be tolerated or encouraged. 

It is another debate entirely as to how the Judicary chooses to prioritse such activity.

* black people!

All insults are designed to wound,I do not believe in a hierarchy of insult.
Reading Ferdinands statement in court shows how this political correctness has driven people into victims,he found the term black was hurtful to him,what did he think his vile gesture and foul language were to Terry.Blacks are taught to be victims and the white working class who are ones being targeted for this have become the real victims,they are told not only must they accept this new order but tey are not allowed to voice any objections,this is what I call liberal tyranny.

You might not believe in a hierarchy of insult.  Thankfully the law does.

Blacks are taught to be victims and the white working class who are ones being targeted for this have become the real victims

Most cases of racial abuse go unpunished, one high profile court case changes little.

Racial abuse is name calling that has been going on for a long time and should have no place in a court room.
Some people are sensitive others thick skinned,you can't legislate for everything.
In the recent servitude case the usual career do gooders were complaining about the miscreants being described as travellers yet their whole defence revolved round their claims that this was their culture.

Racial abuse has no place in a court room?  I have heard everything now. 

Borneo, you demonstrate no empathy for what it means to be black.

I treat everyone the same their colour is irrelevant to me.
Cluttering up courts with cases like the Terry case apart from being a waste of money is also a waste of court time,if every time someone is insulted or verbally abused a court case ensued the system would break down.It would suit the voracious legal profession and the various agencies that drain the public purse creating trouble where there is none.

Your colour might be more relevant to you if you were black and you experienced that not everyone treats you the same.

It is no harm for society as a whole to be reminded that racial abuse is uncceptable and punishable in court.  Only a high profile trial can have such an impact.

I lived in London in the sixties and seventies and many complained about the Irish with good reason some of my fellow countrymen were trying to blow the place up,I never took offence at some barbs directed my way.
I befriended some West Indians and got to love their laid back easy going attitude,this makes me guilty of racial stereotyping but I defy you to listen to a Michael Holding cricket commentary without getting that laid back feeling.

I forget the test match but England had just lost six wickets in the morning session when the mike was handed over to Michael Holding,there was silence for a while then in his own inimitable accent one word............problems.

  You may have been influenced by second hand smoke!

Being Irish in London in the 60's and 70's no doubt presented its own challenges.  But it does not equate with being black.

On a tangential note, West Indians are one of the few immigrant groups in Britain to make an effort to properly assimilate.  It is a shame that so many other groupings remain so segregated.

i have to agree with wildman on this subject , this thing about been black and having your feelings hurt everytime someone uses the word black this or that , has now become a smokescreen to the REAL ISSUE ,the real winners are barristers and lawyers who make a wonderful living out of it  ...i worked in england in the 70s and was racially abused many times ..but i gave as good as i got , and got on with it ...yes i was a paddy and yes sometimes i acted like a ****.... ozymandius , i doubt you 've ever had to spend time among black people ,  i had many black friends when in england ..they like us , have their likes and dislikes of us whites , take off the blinkers mate...

So many misperceptions and erroneous assumptions in that post workrider, i don't know where to begin, so I won't.

Any hosses for Killarney tonight?

i think if you look deeply enough ozymandius you'll find a lot of truth as well...i fancy money spider in the 6.40..  had a look at her in the parade ring at leop and liked what i saw ...i think she was giving a nice prep that night ...tonight will be her night ....

Ozymandius your definition of the word racist is needed.
One of mine is a racist is someone winning an argument against a liberal.
When you say racist if you mean someone who despises another human being because of their race or thinks their race is superior to another then i am definitely not but if you mean someone who sees difference between races and has preferences then yes.
It is only natural to like some peoples and dislike others,i like the English and West Indians,i dislike the French and Nigerians make of that what you will.

I don't wish to re-engage with you on this subject.

I prefer not to  debate with a person who continues to assert Mo Farrah was 'stolen', even after having been appraised of his background.  Your ignorance appals me.

A Liberal Capitulation.
Your refusal to give any credit to Somalia for Mo Farahs success is telling.He was born in Somalia to a Somalian women,he looks Somalian,he certainly runs like a Somalian,he himself acknowledges his Somalian roots and has his own foundation out there,he is no Brendan Bracken.
Keep thinking saying someone is from Thailand has connotations,that the word oriental is offensive(it isn't )that the white man has some burden that makes him superior(in your eyes)and subject to more stringent rules,you are a classic elitist liberal who look down on the ordinary people who are not as enlightened as you.
I don't think you are ignorant just misguided.

Look up the word stolen in the dictionary and ask yourself if he was stolen?

All other points raised have been previously addressed.

The word stolen is yours not mine but even now you can't bring yourself to acknowledge any Somalian input in Mo Farahs victories.

There are several examples of you saying that Britain stole Mo Farrah.  Here are just two examples (there are several more) on the ‘Ireland at the 2012 Olympics’ thread:

wildmanfromborneo 05 Aug 12 00:03 seems pillaging to nick African athletes with their superior running skills and claim them as your own

wildmanfromborneo  11 Aug 12 20:11 We could go down the road of stealing another countries athlete and claiming the glory but thats just fooling yourself

You are welcome to re-read the thread to see the remarks in context; they clearly refer directly to Mo Farah.

There is no point in having any further dialogue with an ignoramus who denies what he has previously said, it is just a waste of time.  No doubt you will find some way of denying the above comments, you always do, but I will be having no further dialogue with you on this or any other subject.    It is now clear to me why so many forumites on here openly despise you

I will leave the despising to you but like most liberals you are illiberal when it comes to differing views hence the personal abuse.
You still can't bring yourself to acknowledge the Somalian influence in Mo Farahs success,yet he did.

British passport holder,Somalian through and through,(lives in Oregon,U.S.)currently trying to raise funds for his foundation for famine victims in Somalia.

the british team had a very foreign look about it this year. perhaps in years to come ireland will have our own mo farahs

^ Read that 61 of the 541 participants were born outside of Britain,that would be subject to verification.

i dont see anything wrong with the 2 WMFB comments in italics. im sure plenty of english people would share those opinions

Well whatever he is,i doubt he is a jellied eel aficionado.

pa...

FreddieK, the point is that Mo Farra's father was born in Britain, lived there all his life and holds a British passport.  Mo moved to England at 8 to be with his father and live in Britain.  He wasn't stolen by Britain in order to represent them at the games.  They didn't say, there is this 8yo kid, lets go recruit him.  He is one of many millions of immigrants setled in Britain.  It is a very multi-cultural place, so naturally its sporting team reflects that.

Borneo repeatedly claimed he was stolen.  Then he claimed he never said that.  The above quotes clearly demonstate tht he did make the accusation.  He is caught out in such a manner on a regualr basis on here.  His response is usually to ignore the fact that he has been caught and counter with more bs to try and cloud the issue and hope that nobody notices.

you sound like the thought police ozy , this political correctness will drive you mad ..the obsession to have people think as you would have them think is starting to become BORING...

well, seeing as you are the fourum expert on 'madness', wonky, I welcome your thoughts on the matter!

tbh ozy , i dont think you welcome anyones thoughts other than your own ....

For someone that seems very concerned about racial issues it seems to me very contradictory to write such a nasty last paragraph as you did in your 12.35 post.Not at all deserved in my opinion,Wildman wrote in his 10.39 post about his foundation in Somalia which to anyone would suggest his heart is very much there.In direct contrast to your point that he moved from there at the age of eight,he was also born and lived there till 8.
Suppose Mo knows himself what he "considers" himself to be,he ran two terrific races and is trying to help a dire situation in Somalia,hats off to the man.

Indeed, Farrah seems a top man.

Pa Lapsy, it is only natural that Farrah has a great affection for Somalia, where have I suggested otherwise?  The simple point I am trying to make is that he was not stolen by GB.  Perhaps you agree with Borneo that he was in fact, stolen?

If you can come up with any evidence that he was stolen by GB, I will happily donate 10,000 euro to his foundation in aid of Somalia.

the slave trade was started by the arabs ..maybe your views on that might be of interest ....would you say they have questions to answer ozy , i'd be very interested in YOUR VIEWS ON THAT ....

start a seperate thread wonky and i will try to share my view, lets not have this one divert off the current topic.

He probably ran for Britain due to the fact he was living there,maybe the athletics association there approached him before the Somalian equivalent(who without knocking them,i,d imagine would be fairly archaic),I don,t know.Maybe in that context the word stolen is used?

SURELY THEES NO NEED FOR A SEPARATE TREAD OZY, AFTER ALL YOU STARTED OUT ON THIS THREAD ASKING WILDMAN FOR HIS VIEWS ON RACISM ....

See my earlier answer, wonky, start a new one, if you want to discuss that topic.  Borneo rekindled this thread to discuss Mo Farrah.

ok ...

PA,

'Athlete Theft' is a very real issue, its just that Mo Farrah is not an example of it.

Shaheen Cherono, on the other hand, moved from Kenya to Qatar in 2003 at age 21 as a Kenyan Youth World Chmapion. Changing his name from Stephen Cherono to Saif Saaeed Shaheen, he was reported to have received up to US$1 million to become a Qatari citizen. After about 40 athletes had left the country, President Mwai Kibaki made a speech before the 2005 World Championships in which he said "Let us resist the temptation to change our citizenship for financial gains.

Saheen's move is a prominent example of increasing globalization in athletics. Several countries have persuaded high-profile African athletes to change nationalities. This marked a change of motivation in athlete transfers, in contrast, for example, to the politically-motivated change of Zola Budd, or the marriage and emigration issues that led Wilson Kipketer to compete for Denmark. IOC President Jacques Rogge has also raised concerns about athletes moving between countries, stating that, "What is bad is countries or organizations wanting to buy athletes just for the money.

Mo, by contrat, won five English schools cross country titles.  It was a fortunate day for GN when he arrived to joing his Father but it was in no way 'theft' as is common in international athletics.

* GB

Thanks for the reply,wasn,t up to date with the now seemingly cut throat world of modern athletics.
Still seems to me after looking at peoples opinions that he is a Somalian that is running for Britain,am i right or wrong there?

Still seems to me after looking at peoples opinions that he is a Somalian that is running for Britain,am i right or wrong there?

Well pa, granted, that is up for debate.

From a genetic pov, he is of African origin, clearly.  Is that the ultimate definition of what his nationality is?  It certainy is one definition, but not a terribly modern one.

Great Britain, in the throes of terrible post colonial guilt, opened its doors and dished our citizenship left, right and centre.  A British citizen is a British citizen, irrepective of ethnic origin.  Mo is a second generation Brit, his father was also British.  So I think this is fairly paramount to the question being considered.

Ultimately, where I come out, is that he spent his formative years in Britain.   He is Muslim, but appears linguistically and culturally immersed in British life.  He happily chose to represent the country that he is a citizen of and hs done so in a very honourble way.

So to my mind, he is British, of Somalian extract, but British nonetheless.  A lot of people have trouble accepting that a black African can ever be called British.  The irony is that GB is a now very multi cultural society, in many ways he is the very embodiment of Britain today.  So British? For me, yes.

I moved to Ireland when I was 8 after been born in England to parents who are both born in England but who hold Irish passports. I don't consider myself English and I don't consider myself 'stolen'

Farah is someone who seems proud to be running under Team GB's colours and good luck to him. That WMFB felt the need to have a massive seethe after the 10,000m was a bit childish really.

Thanks again for replying Ozymandias,yes it is up for debate,and that was what Wildman was doing,fair enough you took offence at the word stolen I don,t think wildman meant it in the literal sense,and i,m not sure what way he did maybe a somalian has won golds and receiving no credit to the country and yes maybe somewhere deep down there is a moral stink off it and that too is open to debate.

Pa, the reason the 'stolen' accusation annoyed me, was because Borneo threw out the accusation initially after the 5000m.  I described Farrhs background to him, in cordial fashion and he appeared to back track somewhat.  A week later, straight after the 10,000 metres he was straight back in with the 'stolen' nonsense.

And then today he brazenly denies ever having made such comments.

He would drive any sane man up the wall!

As much as he annoyed you i thought your response was very harsh.
Wouldn,t it be a grand old forum if there was a bit of respect for other peoples views(agreeing or disagreeing)

Second sentence wasn,t aimed at you in particular,Ozy.

I think wildman deliberately rises people here constantly.When you pick holes in his argument,he will move the goalposts or deny having previously said something.

I agree, my response was harsh.

But this wasn't just about respecting someones opinion or views or not.  It was about the fact, easily established, as to whether he had made these accusations before.  He denied that he had.  And when they were shown to him in black and white, as ever, there was not a hint of an apology.  I find this exasperating and I find it very difficult to retain respect for this sort of behaviour, especially when I see it frequently replicated in other threads that he is involved in.

exactly dj876, thats exactly what I was trying to say.

Fair play for your straight talking,Ozy,suppose we all have a different interaction with others on here and over time things get said that the 3rd party isn,t aware of.
Hope results going your way dj.

Good day today Pa,recouped yesterdays losses.I had a large bet yesterday on a filly at Fos los.Probert went for a gap when there was no need to-was fuming but that's racing.I am looking forward to York next week.

Good man,had to have a little sabattical myself,since Galway it wasn,t trying to get a winner but one that would run half decent.Yeah York is a nice meeting probably have a little go over the weekend feeling a bit more on the ball.

At least u took a pull Pa,I switched off the laptop yesterday after the fos los(4.50 Astra Hall).
I am surprised AOB is running St.Nick in the international-don't think 10f suits him.
Prescott's fav in thr Ebor could be a bet if it stays dry,was fair impressive at Goodwood.

you have me reading form,that motivado two imp wins with 3 medichre ones sandwiched between.Prescott or inconsistent? suppose Mullins is giving Simenon a more realistic race than g2 even though he ran well enough,the big field here will be a help.

His seasonal debut was in the Northumberland plate on desperate ground,I think he definitely needs good ground,his run at York in the listed handicap  was a bit worrying but it seems Prescott was using it as a stepping stone
"He didn't like the ground at Newcastle at all but I was less worried at York and much more relieved after that," said Prescott.

"I had in my mind to go straight for the Ebor but even my maths could work out that he'd have to turn up here. You'll never see a bigger horse."

Yes Simemon must come into calculations,thought he ran well at Goodwood from too far back,winner got a cute ride,tho Simenons wins at Ascot did come over 20f and 22f,so maybe 14f a bit on the sharp side.

Strong quote,will he get in?without counting them seems about 45 down.
liked Cambornes ascot win,made up fierce ground from way back,9lb more would be a worry there.
Can,t see St nic getting near Frankel,excelebration won well in france sun and what frankel did to him.

I would imagine Prescott will make sure he gets in.Camborne is a massive danger if an intended runner,extra 2f will suit and still not fully exposed but Johnny G mentioned a race in the states for him.

I think St. Nick would be better sticking to 12f and going for the arc and breeders cup turf,but Coolmore will want the 10f Group1 (tho he did of course win the rp as a 2yo)and are probably thinking of the irish champion  against Nathanniel after the international.

I,d say he,s done that before alright,Know there are a few trainers with 2 or more,still as far as i know its 20 max.
agree 12f with st nics by far suits him best.
Enjoyed the race chat with you dj,the leaba is screaming,so i,ll say goodnight to ya. gl if having a go tommorow.

You misquoted me in your opening post,you claimed I said Thai bird when I said presumably from Thailand bit different.You then said this had connotations but when asked what they were you failed to answer.
You then take two quotes completely out of context,on the Olympics thread you mischievously pronounced "Mo Farah  incredible.  Best moment for me" this was done to get a response from Richters but I joined in the skitting by responding
The Rape of the Sabine Women
The early morning raid on Baltimore
We could go down the road of stealing another countries athletes and claiming the glory but that's just fooling yourself

That is a skit and a parody and you knew it then and know it now yet you choose to misrepresent by your careful selection of just one line,the reference to Baltimore and pirates show clearly it is skitting,I was rising you as we're others.
However there is a post on the Olympics thread from you that is revealing " what time is our tinker on at please " seems the wealthy great liberal has some prejudices of his own.
I don't think you are a racist a Neanderthal or an ignoramus just think you hold certain views and can't stand anyone holding differing ones,a classic intolerant liberal.

Squigs I was delighted with Mo Farahs victories and I cheered on all the Great Britain medal winners with the exception of a few boxers.

wildman.....id say ya were in some state watching john joe in the final..........when ya heard the other fellow was one of the lads.....ya were in some quandry then.......more than likely spent the whole fight hoping the arena would be blown up......

It was the semi final done for me,laid John Joe only bet I had on the Olympics.

aside from the monetary aspect wildman.....a bit like myself.......when yad see the cousins fighting each other......yed struggle to know who to shout for......

You have to admire the organisers of the Mullingar reception,fearing they wouldn't turn out for John Joe they got some famous boy band member to attend guaranteeing some teeny bopper support.

Ozymandius you state in your 22.26 post that" you find it difficult to retain respect for that sort of behaviour",that behaviour being wildman came on straight after MF wins. And what about your own "behaviour" straight after Katie Taylors gold?(the stunnins katie taylor thread p5). Two-faced,and worse as it was crude and vulgar,really seemed to have galled you.

Good afternoon, Pa.  Are you refering to Katie Taylor's tricolour thong aside?  Apologies if you or anyone else if they were profoundly offended by this.

It's about integrity, Pa.  Don't (repeatedly) claim you didn't say something if you did.  And if you are caught out, hold your hand up and apologise.  Basic integrity really.  Certain people on here fail this test, repeatedly.  I would like to think that you and I are on the same page on this.

I don,t think i,m even on the same book as you,what you found so abhorrent in wildman,he did it twice you did it once,doesn,t matter,basic integrity innit? You are slagging wildman and you are doing the same,two faced in this book.

Ozymandius deliberately misrepresents what I said by quoting one line yet he talks of integrity,any fair minded person would acknowledge that the post in question was a skitting post,I don't think Mo Farah was stolen that is why I make reference to the Sabine women and the pirate led raid on Baltimore.Ozymandius was losing the debate so he tried to bring in this obvious red herring,it's a familiar liberal tactic if you can't get your way try a bit of name calling then look for some law banning this viewpoint.

Pa, kindly highlight where I have denied saying something and then been shown to have said it several times?  And where I compound this by refusing to apologise.  This is Borneo to a tee, in so many discusions over the years.  It is how he operates.  Denies saying something and when shown up, moves the goal posts.  It is why I will never be drawn into a conversation with him again.

The thought of never being able to expose his wooly thinking and blatant misrepresentation is tough,the condescending snobbish tone of this wealthy university educated gentleman will be missed.

What you are saying regarding denying saying something is irrelevant here,what you have done is try and demean Katie Taylor in her moment of victory.Why would you do that in a great moment for Ireland? To a neutral observer it might look as if you are racist against the Irish race but seeing as you are such a fierce champion for p.c. in racial issues as in your opening post surely that couldn,t possibly be the case.

Frankly Pa, if she does go down the route of going pro there is a good chance of her having to wear skimpy panties.  That seems to be one of the ways they are trying to keep female pro boxing alive in the States.  I understand some have also recieved offers to appear in Playboy.  Conservative Ireland might find that demeaning, other will find it a wonderful celebration of the female form.

I,ll rephrase the demeaning and put it a bit more simply for you, you tried to pish on her parade with your comments in her moment of victory,would that be true or false.That certainly is what it looks like to me.

I have always found it difficult to take any pleasure in watching two women fight, Pa.  It goes against nature and my better judgement.  If you found my remarks offensive I refer you to my earlier apology at 13.49 on this thread.

I thought that might be your answer,i didn,t find your remarks offensive at all,mean spirited in her moment yes.Good day to you now.

Good day, squire.

Definitely obsessed.

A therapist definitely required

Yet again