Sizing robbed ?

Absolute joke there!

That will certainly leave a bad taste in the mouth.

Ruined the race.

Not sure he was robbed, may or may not have made a difference to the result but that was not satisfactory, it was farcical

10/1 I had him at just before the Tingle Creek

Fcuking raging here - I'm fit to kill someone

A shambles. Pocket lighter too.

Absolute shambles. They had a full circuit to sort out the final fence and they left one flagman OUTSIDE the rail?

Joke.

Sizing is all about jumping taking lengths out of the opposition - think of how he broke big zebs heart with the jump at the last this time last yr- the fence ommitted undoubtedly cost him the race (admittedly he jumped the 3rd last wrong)! he jumps ands gallops and is not suited to a sustained sprint

absolutely disgraceful and yes its pocket talking

Why in the name of Christ did they leave half the fence completely clear?

Just one board or marker or flagman and there wouldn't have been a problem.

He was unlucky too, left in front way too soon

Once the last fence was omitted he was always going to be there to be picked off in the run-in

Cost me big . Terrible indecision .  Glad they weren't Irish lads  , otherwise...

total farce,sorry for De Bromhead and Lynch who wasn,t sure whether to jump it,a few traffic cones or tape on the outside of the last at 45% angle simple, desperately unlucky for backers as well.

And just deny any culpability , spokesperson .  But we are used to that from certain quarters .  Absolute shambles .

The Stewards held an enquiry into the use of the whip by A.E Lynch, the rider of SIZING EUROPE, placed second, on the run in. Having heard his evidence and viewed recordings of the race, they found him in breach of Schedule (B)6 Part 2 in that he had used his whip in an incorrect place. The Stewards suspended Lynch for 6 days as follows: Wednesday 28, Thursday 29, Friday 30 and Saturday 31 March and Sunday 1 and Monday 2 April




ffs

Lynch gets 6 days for the whip on top of that,you couldn,t make it up.

Shambles is the word Kelly. What is it with bypassing in Britain? The last two fences are very close together. Clearly not nearly as close as Galway but if either of the last two fences in Ballybrit is to be omitted, neither fence is jumped. Perhaps they will look at that amongst other things.

A flagman who is not afraid of horses would be a help as well!

Did ye see them reviewing it on RTE where they showed footage of fellas starting to put up the marker boards across the fence - that would have helped the jocks a bit better than one bloody flagman.

And another thing, strange that allowed every photographer to be positioned on a railing running parallel to the fence-usually, they move the rail in just after the fence to allow for a faller, not done this time at the last 2 fences. No wonder the photographer got a belt of a horse.

after watching the finish a few times, I am fully convinced that Andrew gave s.e. a breather to conserve a bit for the hill and that let f.r to within a length.  Im sure he thought it was in the bag.  A total shambles though and you really have to feel for Andrew, especially for getting a ban to boot.  I bet he feels like it was having to pay to get into a concentration camp.

my guess is that the attendants (and instruction-giver) at the last fence wanted the horses to jump the last (thats why only a few yards dolled off and the flag being waved inside rail) and geraghty intended to until lynch decided he was being told to omit.

shambles

Henry de Bromhead

Good to hear those involved in the incident are ok but overall a very disappointing way to end the Queen Mother Champion Chase. Andrew said it cost him the race

Andrew Lynch should have jumped the fence and then let them decide..... not Lynch's best ride either imho.. oh pocket talking

I think this is pockets talking guys. the explanation that they were concerned about injured humans at the other side of fence sounds completely reasonable. to say they could jump half the fence is not logical and would have put jockeys and horses in potential danger. I had bet SE and I do believe he would have won, but what can you do. Had a lathe bet on Monksland also, and his race was compromised too, but that is jumps racing.

I think this is pockets talking guys. the explanation that they were concerned about injured humans at the other side of fence sounds completely reasonable. to say they could jump half the fence is not logical and would have put jockeys and horses in potential danger. I had bet SE and I do believe he would have won, but what can you do. Had a lathe bet on Monksland also, and his race was compromised too, but that is jumps racing.

1) A shambles. Heads should roll.

2) Not sure it made a difference.

3) Lynch banned and Geraghty not. No sense there.

even if guy with flag had stood in front of last fence,ffs what a mess

Not sure how anybody can say it cost the horse the race. Finian's was drawing away from Sizing at the end, sizing still had the inside line going around the last fence, ****s just had too much gears imo.

What's the '*' for ?

Yeah,  I thought FR just had that extra kick in him. Even after the mix up Sizing was a good half length up and FR caught him.

I'd backed Big Zeb so my pocket talking had ended from about 4 jumps out. Finians Rainbow was underestimated because it was not Sprinter Sacre and not the best two miler in the Henderson yard. While not as fluent a jumper as Sizing he battled well.

The ban for Lynch is utterly ridiculous though and that the course didn't seem prepared for an eventuality like this is not good.

No blame can be attached to either of the jockeys , they were let down by the inefficiency of those taking decisions at the last fence  . For that to happen at the premier event in jumpimg and possibly affect the outcome of one of the most important races in the calendar is ludicrous , and someone should be taken to task for it .  Someone made a mess , only people who suffered ( apart possibly from us punters ) were the connections and rider of Sizing Europe . To impose a ban on the jockey in the fraught circumstances involved shows the lack of "political " thinking prevalent in the jurisdiction responsible for running racing in UK . Just another shambolic happening .

Plus someone appears on TV to justify having not even held an enquiry as to what happened . Any happening which could be materially responsible for changing the course or result of a race should be investigated , thats what stewards are there for .

****ing Chemical Nicky!!!!!!!

Hates us Irish.

If you think it was a shambles can you imagine if the two jockeys had not seen the dude with the flag until it was to late[ just as well it was only a small field] at the end of the day the only two people who where injured was R.J. and the french Photographer and maybe any punters who had there wages on S.E. i lost a ton my self on the race

Shambles. Geraghty saying that only inside of fence was dolled off and he thought they were to jump the outer part of the fence.On first viewing I thought it made no difference to the result but ive looked at it a few times and SE jumped the 2nd last a length and a half in front and it was only when the barging started that FR got on top. Think SE would have won and yes- SE my biggest bet so far this week.

Fair play to Lynch for copping on in time. Top jock.
Trainer went way up in my estimation too. Handled himself very well in the aftermath given the significance of the blunder. 
Racing will have lost a few more punters today after that joke, and rightly so.
Absolute shambles.

100% agree with you giant.

Sizing is all about jumping and galloping. Once Lynch had to make that manoeuvre to go around the fence the race was lost as he lost all momentum and will never win in a head to head sprint as he has no change of gear. Never mind the fact he might have took half a length or more out of Finians rainbow at the last. I backed Finians rainbow for small money but was heartbroken to see the champ beaten

Btw, that suspension is ****ing ludicrous.

Just looking at it again,SE lost about 3l at the 3rd last,if he jumped that well FR would probably have to have been ridden to get him.
Looks to me about a fifth at most a quarter of the fence was dolled off on the inside with the 3 fence dolls piled on top of each other.even if they put 2 dolls and the other one next to it,it would have been clear.
Lynch you could see was in a quandry and considered jumping it.(can see that on the slo-mo at the end)ended up having to pull SE to go around. No pocket talking as i didn,t do him..
The course mangement (lindley + co ) made a total mess of a simple job and hadn,t the decency to acknowledge it.

In certain societies it is ingrained that those in authority never make mistakes . And if they do they wont admit it .  Sometimes for longer than some peoples lifetimes . Twas always thus  , sign of weakness to admit mistakes .

Can connections lodge objections these days ?  Had I been part of Sizings entourage I would have , given that an argument could have been made that my racing line was impeded by the eventual winner . The objection would then have to have been taken under consideration , could not have been judged frivolous , given that it would have been very hard to define what the racing line was in the circumstances .  Barry was in the box seat as it happened  , little blame could be attached to him given the hand he was dealt , but at least the incident would not have been brushed under the carpet .

Trainer took the matter very sportingly , would not have been so sanguine about it if it had been me .

As a follow up to the racing line point , would Barry have been entitled to steer his horse just towards the outside of the last jump , thereby forcing Andrew Lynch to check his horse , forfeiting the race  , with the only possibility being to try and win by coming from two or three lengths down after such a manoeuvre .

Jump racing is a dangerous enough sport without courses having undefined  procedures for circumstances which change the actual course to be followed . Waving flags at people travelling at 40 mph on tired horses just after they have jumped the previous fence does not allow much time for decision making on the jockeys part .  Particularly if the guy waving the flag is adjacent to the running rail .

Anyone familiar with Cheltenham knows that facing up the hill and into thousands of spectators lining the rails is daunting . Having about 2 seconds to assess what to do when (possibly) catching sight of someone waving a flag about 80 yards away with that as a background is a scary scenario .  The 2 jockeys concerned should have given something memorable for surviving the incident , Barry I suppose got a win , Andrew 6 days . Natural justice ?

A bit of a biased thread, nobody seems to have noticed that FR wasn't exactly helped by Lynch forcing Barrys horse out in the bumping and barging match that insued to some with the green glasses on only SE was inconvenienced?.

Barry almost certainly never seen the flag or the doll boards as he would have been obscured from view by SE and Andrew Lynch, I think Barry thought Andrew was deliberately trying to force him out as he seemed to try and push Andrew back in.

Yes a farcical situation but neither horse was any more inconvenienced by it than the other
To say SE would have won is grasping at straws, once a horse was anyway close to him coming to the last he was always going to struggle, as he's been a notorious weak finisher down the years, if they went a bit Further FR would have been much further clear at the line, great cruising speed and jumper but virtually no turn of foot.
A couple of years ago in the Arkle his superior jumping had afforded him what seemed an unasailable lead as it turned out it was, but only just!, the horse was in dire need of the line as Somersby came charging up the hill.
Sizing Europe is a good horse but as 2 mile superstars go he would be pretty low down on my list, in fact I think he's incredibly overrated!.
Sprinter Sacre would have had that lot for breakfast yesterday as would many other past winners of the 2 mile championship.

As for the whip ban it might seem a little churlish after the balls up but its a totally separate issue.

2 Irish lads in the mix , Silver , so no green glasses issue .  Money glasses maybe .

The relative merits of the current crop of 2 mile chasers is irrelevant , debate was whether the shenanigans MIGHT have affected the ultimate result . The shenanigans probably affected Sizing more given he is a free travelling sort of horse who runs his best when there are no problems in the race .  He is also a very good jumper , and would probably have gained something over the last , possibly more than the distance by which he was beaten .  Plus there is always the "daylight factor" when it occurs .

As Barry Geraghty said in interview this morning , the whole shambles could have been even worse if both he and Andrew Lynch had  jumped the last  , incurring disqualification on basis of a flag waver , and automatic 14 day suspension . In the fraught circumstances which occurred , concentration having been disturbed by flag waving etc  , plus an erratic course revision , whip ban enforced by the body responsible for the shambles does not sit well with me . Crowd of numpties the Aussie has joined . Maybe in time he will sort them out .

Nobody is debating they're numpties Kelly and the dolling off of the fence should have been much clearer, but its all just surmising as to whether the result was effected.

For all Sizing Europes good jumping he did make a couple of fiddly errors during the race, he could have fiddled the last and Finians Rainbow ping it, or both could have pinged it or maybe even one of them fall, so many permutations, that he came out of the barging match still about a half length up and was beaten a length and a quarter at the finish by a horse winning going away, it can only be pockets talking that would suggest anything other than Finians Rainbow was the better horse on the day.

One things for certain once they jumped the 2nd last the Sizing backers were sweating buckets as Finians Rainbow was looming large and those of us who know SE to be a weak finisher you could say the writing was already on the wall.

Sizing Europe wasn`t robbed but he was unlucky as i have no doubt if he had to jump the last he would have won.
Andrew Lynch deserved credit for doing the right thing and going round the fence and forcing a reluctant Barry Geraghty to do the same and for the stewards to give him a ban was pernicious.

Ah well you quit with the rubbish of speaking thru your pocket please Mr Fav backer from Borneo. Analyise the race fully man and you will clearly see the result would not change, FR moved into 6th gear as Sizing was stuck in 5th. Great race but don't take away from a well deserved winner.

We know your writing skills are abysmal and whilst pathetically lieing about a double you showed your maths skills are abysmal,you now are showing that your reading skills are also limited.

There's two ways of looking at the QM yesterday.

The first is that in an ideal world Wishful Thinking wouldn't have fallen and the last would have been jumped. Sizing was in front an awful long way out and it's a hard task for any horse to lead off the bend and stay in front with nothing to aim at. In addition jumping another fence would have also been a big help as a sprint doesn't suit him and you can be almost guaranteed that he'd come up well for Andrew if given the opportunity (despite flicking through a few of the previous fences). However if FR was within a length of SE away from the last then he would have quite probably have nutted him near the line.

As it happened having to snatch up inconvenienced SE more than the winner because a big horse like him is always at there best when rolling along and having to check up like that  easily cost him a length for me. If proper procedures were in place and some sort of plastic railing or tape had been put up guiding them around the dolled off fence and no interference had taken place then it would have been much closer but i'd still have FR as the winner by a head.

It was a highly unsatisfactory situation and as Ted said you wouldn't see it at a p2p. Them ****s in the BHA spoiled a great race and robbed the spectators, punters and connections of a fair contest. De Bromhead deserves great credit for being so stoic when interviewed after the race though I suppose it didn't require much debate as it's plain as day that what occurred was terribly amateur.

Also whether you agree with the whip rules or not they could not waive a ban just because of what happened.

They could have used their discretion with regards the whip.
What was unsatisfactory about the race,they applied the rules correctly.It may have appeared unfair to those unaware of the rules but the fact is the ground staff and Richard Linley did everything right.

Not true at all, what rules are you looking at? When a fence is dolled like the one y'day it means that part of it is avilable to jump. This is fact mate, race should have been void mate.

They would have considered whether they chose to use discretion and they decided not to and it was worth a ban. That's pretty straightforward.

Of course it was unsatisfactory. How is a flag man standing near the inside rail against the background of the glaring sun good enough? They should have left the signs the whole way across the fence at a minimum like they intimated at doing before the fence steward decided for whatever reason to move them all to the inside. It wouldn't have taken a whole lot of gumption to have left them the whole way across the fence and made sure it was as visible as possible. Even the commentator who had an eye on the situation for most of the race wasn't sure whether they were going to jump half the fence or not. The excuse they put out about having a fella there blowing a whistle is a pure cop out too. Given it's the sharpest section of the course and the gallop they would be going they need visual aids not relying on a fooking whistle. Three pikes in the ground and some white tape guiding them from a 100 yards before the last around the fence and there would have been no problems.

The reason they moved the signs together was for the protection of the people on the other side.Your point about discretion contradicts your earlier post,my point was given the extenuating circumstances they should never have imposed a ban,should have given him a medal.
One day by accident Rocketfingers will get something right but i will surely be gone to God when it happens.

There was no fear of the people on the inside of the track. The jockeys can see the big green screens that were up a lot quicker than they are going to hear a whistle. As soon as they wheeled off the bend the two horses had moved to the outside to avoid them but Andrew Lynch and possibly Geraghty weren't sure for a second whether to jump the outer section of the fence or go around it.

How does my earlier point contradict what I said? They looked at the number of times he used his whip and found no good reason to disallow any of them to bring him under the threshold and therefore he was banned. May have been harsh and the rules take the good out of race riding to my mind but thats what they decided.

What are you trying to say exactly? What it sounds to me like anyway is that the correct procedures were followed in your view and yet if that is true then why would Andrew Lynch deserves a medal for nearly taking the wrong course through no fault of anyone else?

The guy is a clueless moron, i would not even enter into a convo with him. What is his point "Sizing Europe wasn`t robbed but he was unlucky as i have no doubt if he had to jump the last he would have won."

This is a man who said the Charity race was the best race before to bet on. Don't make me shame you by asking me to bring it up Wildman

You glibly say there was no danger but that wasn`t the opinion of the people there,imagine if someone was hurt if a loose horse jumped between the arrows and injured somebody,million pound claims would follow.
The rules were applied correctly as they stand but i feel the rules place too much responsibility on the jockeys and if you review the race you will almost see Andrew Lynch thought process as he first goes to avoid the fence then thinks about jumping it and then correctly goed round it.
Sizing Europe wasn`t robbed in that nothing was done against him he was however unlucky in that he is a super jumper and therefore would have preferred for the last fence not to be omitted.
Bring it up and shame me.

If a loose had come round the bend then he would be less likely to run in the direction of the flag man and the green screens than he would be to run to the outside of the track. You can be as arbitrary as you like and of course safety has to be the primary concern but there should have been much more done to notify the jockeys that the fence was being dolled off.

So one set of procedures were applied stringently and correctly in your view and you see no problem yet another set of rules were applied in a similarly exact manner and you expect discretion to be shown. To most minds there should have been a bit of nous used in both cases but if you've no problem in people hiding behind the rulebook then your standards should apply across the board.

Also you say that the thought process of Andrew Lynch was compromised approaching the fence. This was obviously due to the actions taken by the fence stewards, actions perceived by most to have been lacking in decisiveness and effectiveness. All the while you still state that it wasn't an unsatisfactory conclusion to one of the great races in the calender and that i'm the one contradicting myself. Sure.

Race was a farce two strides after the last fence Sizing Europe was asked not to race but steer away from the fence, he lost a lot of momentum. A stewards decision of a dead heat would have been fair.

Public school boys who are not fit to run a bottle stall at their old boys fete - making excuses for a total disaster. They are making it up as they go along, and closing shop as they go along in addition. How can you manage what is a championship race in the equine olympics in that manner is just unbelievable!

Sizing was robbed, the race should have been voided and I agree that the last two should have been dolled off if any were to be.
Henry must be fuming and I hope he gets his revenge.

Also, surely Lynch is due compensation after that and the Voler ride yesterday?

Pocket talking thread.

Nothing wrong with a pocket talking thread , grade 1 , as long as the subject needs debated .  The authorities tried to brush this one under the carpet , but thankfully forums like this allow the ordinary joes to express dissatisfaction where it is warranted .

And when someones living is adversely affected by the same authorities who make the rules it is a worry .  To allow people to be judge and jury goes against my principles , independence is always needed to stop under the carpet behaviour . If you sin you take the consequences , OK with that , but to punish one guy and ignore a bigger culpability is basically wrong . Acknowledgement needed , but guess we may have to wait until the Aussie sorts them out ( hopefully , but dont hold your breath ) .

I am not saying that the dolling off situation wasn't poorly managed but anyone who thinks that sizing was robbed needs to look at the jumping of both horses at the third last. Geraghty was always going to play Finians late after getting mugged by Somersby at Ascot.