Joseph O Brien: Ballydoyle Stable Jockey??

As usual you never give any sort of pretext to your comments and factual backup.

"The HRI review the position in relation to the minimum weights and all the other related weight structure changes at the end of the season in the light of more comprehensive medical research to be undertaken this year." That is what was actually said in 2006. The report that was produced by Dr Giles Warrington, Dr Adrian McGoldrick and Dr Michael Griffin. The HRI also increased the Jumps weight(must have not read that part) to 11st 7lb. The Doctors made no recommendation but the HRI did.

Your pursuit against the health profession is clear for everyone to see. It is clear that many jockeys go through hell to get down to weights. All you have to do is go into any gym around Kildare to see the torture some jockeys go through. Are you telling me that is healthy?? to spend 3 hours in the sauna every day and live off a cup of coffee and slice of toast?. Is that what Horse Racing represents the cruel punishment of human beings just because some old farts in the Turf Club want to keep it the same as it always has been. Its astonishing how one eyed you are.

You don't critcise Trainer/Jockeys/HRI/Turf Club but the health profession. Why don't you get on your high horse to Noel Meade or Mick Halford the public face of the trainer's. Why don't you give out about Smullen and Murtagh who publicly back the proposals. Why don't you play the realsionship's with the HRI/Turf Club and senior members of one certain racing stable(mentioned the chairman but focus on the doctors). No you don't want that because for every one realsionship, we can name the exact same for Willie Mullins for Michael O Leary for JP McManus for Dermot Weld etc etc. It is a incesteous society is horse racing in Ireland it has always been like that.

Joseph O Brien has benefited from these changes in weights no doubt, but I believe that this was a framework that has been in motion for a long time for the good of the health of jockeys. I can't quite believe that HRI funded reports all the way back in the early years of the last decade so Joseph O Brien could become Champion Jockey. Its up there with Elvis is still alive as a conspiracy or Obama is Muslim intent on destroying America.

Ruby there is much more than Jooseph O'Brien in the world of racing, they can still weigh in at 7st11 in Britain?. and you want to justify raising weights for condition and maidens?

Unjustifiable and you know it ruby, only the back scratching racing media could allow this blatant example of control freakism go unchecked?.

You would struggle to meet a more sincere genuine committed physician than Dr McGoldrick and he is passionate about the importance of jockeys not wasting from a health point of view. No surprise that people would add two and two and create a conspiracy theory about his actions helping one jockey to a probable jockeys championship but there is no substance in fact to this suggestion

Stellar I've often been in front of McGoldrick for an ailment. I do live in Newbridge, as a doctor the guy is top of the tree, but what happened here had nothing whatsover to do with him, he, as far back as 2006 was been led ny the tail, why would anyone with half a brain put in a recommendation to raise the weights for maidens and condition races when the minimum weight is still 8st4????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Fair point SG , there is no doubt that the effect of his initiative while properly motivated from a health paoint of view is to benefit senior established jockeys such as Murtagh and Berry who have always struggled to do less than 8'10 with the latter constantly petitioning for higher weights in maidens/condition races so it is not just JPOB who has been the beneficiary of the recent change.

Stellar it was planned in advance, why do you think Johnny went missing?

Silvergreaser........So Ballydoyle have been planning this for years.

The Gotchee






19 Aug 12 14:31
Joined:


19 Aug 06
| Topic/replies: 1,003 | Blogger: The Gotchee's blog



They have an unhealthy non transparent relationship with the racing authorities, Brosnan and Co. Where would you get it, weight increase at the upper level to suit the "Golden Boy". He didn't even  attend the Racing Academy. (R.A.C.E.) the only apprentice in recent times I know of who was excused from Irelands academy for the horse racing industry and an international centre of excellence. Can someone give me an explanation? They seem to operate with impunity


Is it compulsory to attend RACE and are you sure he did not attend.
Plenty of trainers attend the courses there also and couldn't put a saddle on a horse........2 references from a licenced trainer and away you go job.

Yes gant, mammy and daddy would've been well aware when Joseph was 13 back in 2006 that their precious was always going to be too heavy to be a flat jockey.

I found it very strange that a stipulation was put into McGoldricks report for a future review of the weights for condition races and maidens, races where flat jockeys never had any problem doing the weights unless of course your name is Joseph O'Brien.
A lot of coincidences happened here, it was introduced to correspond with Josephs assent to the Coolmore top job, snook in almost under everyones noses right before the start of the current flat season?, Johnny Murtagh suddenly departing, did Johnny have an inkling that Joesph was already been groomed for the job?, nobody has ever come out with a satisfactory reason for Johnnys sudden departure?, this sounds like a plausible reason, and of course its no coincidence that the vast majority of the Ballydoyle blue bloods horses ply their trade in maidens and condition races?.

No one seems to be able to give an explanation as to why he did not attend RACE? It seems very strange that he was exempt from this very important part of an apprentices education.  Maybe it would have been a great shock for him to mix with girls and boys from Darndale, Finglas and Ballymun. I suppose you could say he is from racing royalty and is entitled to special privileges.
The most successful Irish flat jockey over the past five years in terms of winners ridden and prizemoney won is a RACE graduate yet very few on here would be able to name him.

Anyone have a go at trying to name him?

Joseph did go to RACE to pass the riding test when getting his license. Since when was going through the yearly course a compulsory aspect of getting a license? That's a new one to me.

He would have been wasting his time there anyway. He was riding international event horses when he was barely a teenager and riding work on good horses for several years before he set foot on the track. What are they supposed to teach him exactly? I'm sure he was already very aware about how to ride a horse and husbandry along with the other areas covered. Anything that he has learned since he was 16 has come from racecourse experience which can't be taught. It's a great course for getting young people that don't come from a strong racing background into the industry and helping them establish themselves. This fella has been watching Sheamie Heffernan and Colm O' Donaghue ride every morning since he was a child. Big difference between that kind of upbringing and riding ponies bareback around Finglas.

Come on Joseph win the title and get me a massive pay day. That is what it is all about at the end of the day!

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/magazine/2012/0721/1224320408314.html

gotchee the O'Brien children are like robots, I doubt they're even allowed have friends?, read the interview from the link above, very revealing.

They certainly have a very  unconventional and sheltered lifestyle. It is incredible that none of them have any other interests outside of horses.










Allduckornodinner






20 Aug 12 19:36
Joined:


03 Feb 07
| Topic/replies: 610 | Blogger: Allduckornodinner's blog



Joseph did go to RACE to pass the riding test when getting his license. Since when was going through the yearly course a compulsory aspect of getting a license? That's a new one to me.

He would have been wasting his time there anyway. He was riding international event horses when he was barely a teenager and riding work on good horses for several years before he set foot on the track. What are they supposed to teach him exactly? I'm sure he was already very aware about how to ride a horse and husbandry along with the other areas covered. Anything that he has learned since he was 16 has come from racecourse experience which can't be taught. It's a great course for getting young people that don't come from a strong racing background into the industry and helping them establish themselves. This fella has been watching Sheamie Heffernan and Colm O' Donaghue ride every morning since he was a child. Big difference between that kind of upbringing and riding ponies bareback around Finglas.

I posed a question earlier in this Thread.

The most successful Irish flat jockey over the past five years in terms of winners ridden and prizemoney won is a RACE graduate yet very few on here would be able to name him.

Anyone have a go at trying to name him?

Well Allduck, his name is James Graham  and you have guessed it, he is from Finglas and before going to RACE he he learned to ride by riding ponies and piebald horses bareback around Finglas.

Career Statistics:
•Starts: 10,981
•Firsts: 1,448
•Seconds: 1,495
•Thirds: 1,424
•Earnings: $43,803,099
•Avg. Earnings Per Start: $3,989

Former champion apprentice Robert Winston is another Finglas bareback rider.

They certainly have a very  unconventional and sheltered lifestyle. It is incredible that none of them have any other interests outside of horses.

Not really. The racing world lives in a bubble. There are tons of trainers that haven't a clue about the outside world and also I am sure there is a lot more to the family than they are going to reveal to a reporter. You'd swear reticence on the part of teenagers is something new.

Yeah I thought he was the guy you were referencing Gotchee. Remember reading in the post that he left for the States after a friend of his committed suicide.

Isn't Shane Kelly also from that neck of the woods if I am not mistaken?

Sorry Kelly is from Cloone. Fairly sure there is another well established jockey based in England that traces back to Dublin alrite. It'll come to me!

Sorry Kelly is from Cloone. Fairly sure there is another well established jockey based in England that traces back to Dublin alrite. It'll come to me!

Cathy Gannon from Donaghamede.

Naw it's a male rider I'm thinking of. Would be a contemporary of Winston i'd say.

I dont know much about Shane Kelly dont think he is from Dublin.

The James Graham story is truely inspiring. I first noticed the lad when he was a 10lb claimer because he was regarded as being good value for his claim. He actually rode a horse for a friend of mine and I happened to be in the parade ring. He was a nice young lad and he told me he was from Finglas. I came accross him again a few years later when I was in Pat Martins yard. At that time he told me he had to give up riding through lack of opportunities. He never rode out his 10lb claim and I am not sure whether he rode a winner here in Ireland. He went over to the States "the land of opportunity" at the age of 22 and through talent hard work and graft he got his break.

This is an article I found on the net.




The Irishman from Finglas done good!


By Susanne Reardon

Scratch beneath the whimsical “bobble-head” persona that jockey James Graham presents to the public and you will find the rare trait that puts him above the crowd.
No surprise. He’s Irish.

“Eaten bread is quickly forgotten” is an adage from the Emerald Isle. It doesn’t apply to the man. After he dismounts, whether from a morning work or Stakes race finish, Graham’s still on the clock giving advice, taking the time to give trainer and owner the “dish”.

A report of the trip, thoughts on how the horse might improve, and an honest evaluation of the race is all inclusive. “If I can make the horse better, I’m happy to do it, whether I ride it back or not. I like to see horses do well, and my experience wearing all the hats in Ireland for trainers of the caliber that I worked for molded me into what I’m doing now.”

Since getting his rider’s license in 2004, Graham’s been among the top five finishers in jockey’s standing in every meet he‘s attended. He has wintered at Fairgrounds every year since, and was this-close to finishing top dog there this year when “at the eleventh hour, Asmussen brought in all his big guns, and I didn’t ride them,” he laughs.

Finishing the meet a strong second with 72 wins, just seven away from leader Shaun Bridgmohan, he’s currently in third place at Arlington Park stalking the leaders in the standings. Just fine in Graham's eyes, having given the Arlington jocks a week's head start after his stop at Keeneland. He has always finished strong.

Of the Fairgrounds, Graham says, “Now that’s a majestic place to ride, all right. The locals are a tough crew, but they gave me the distinction of being the only non-Cajun apprentice to do as well as one of their own.” He credits the ‘The Big Easy’s’ oval “with those tight turns and the longest stretch anywhere” for honing his riding skills in the U.S.

The 31- year-old rider is from Finglas (Fionn-ghlas), a Dublin suburb with a village core, located on the Northside of the city “where it’s so rough that even dogs walk around in gangs,” Graham recounts. He had first contact with equines, he says, by “stealing ponies and riding around the fields bareback until I fell off. I complained to my grandfather, who said I should pick one that goes slower next time!”

Accepted at age 15 by the Racing Academy and Centre of Education (R.A.C.E), the jockey apprentice program in Ireland, Graham’s credential landed him in the yard of Irish racing great John Oxx, trainer of recently retired European champion Sea the Stars.

Moving on to work for Pat Byrne, Graham quickly ascended the ladder. He was often put in charge of multiple runners at Irish racetracks performing all duties. “The only thing I didn’t do was drive the horse box,” Graham recalls. “One day, I was sent with five runners to Down Royal Racecourse. I was the groom, led the horse up, rode the race, and back at the yard, gave the report to the boss!”

Down Royal, located in Northern Ireland, is where Graham met his wife, Lisa Caverly, also a graduate of R.A.C.E. Graham took a shot and asked if she’d lead up one of his horses. While Lisa declined the horse, she took the jockey, and in 2002 the pair took a trip to the U.S. for the Breeders’ Cup at Arlington Park, where they’ve been since. Married four years ago in Lisa’s native Cork, the Graham’s are proud parents of two young children, Hannah, 2, and Christopher, 8 months. Lisa is assistant trainer for Jeff Thornbury.

“For every man, there’s a backbone, and Lisa is mine,” confesses Graham.

After receiving the Rising Star Award at Arlington Park in his first year of riding, Graham’s first milestone was competing in his 1,000th race, which happened at Keeneland in spring 2010. He’s got a knack for multiple daily wins, too, winning six in a day on May 24, 2008 at Arlington Park, a single card standout equaled only by Rene Douglas. Among Graham’s achievements are 12 stakes victories in 2009, including his first Grade I win aboard Hot Cha Cha in the Queen Elizabeth II Challenge Cup at Keeneland, and13 graded stakes wins in 2008.

Graham tips his cap to a “who’s who” of trainers that have influenced his career, including Bobby Springer, the provider of his first Stakes winner, Jeff Thornbury, Hugh Robertson and Tom Proctor. He also thanks “everyone else who books me to ride their horses!”

As Graham sits poised for his best year yet, he acknowledges Arlington Park as “the nicest racetrack I’ve ever been to ride at.” Looking back on his early days riding in Ireland, he says of U.S. horse racing “It’s too easy over here. I’m just lucky.”
Easy? Only for the gifted and deserving James Graham. Keep both eyes on this particular Irishman in 2010, as the lad from Finglas is one to watch! 

top

To me Aiden O`Brien is the greatest horse trainer in the world,his attention to detail is famous yet Silvergreaser who is not a fan thinks that he foresaw his then 12 year old son would have weight problems in the future,he then enlisted the help of a doctor to organise a change of the rules solely for him.
This is so preposterous it is hard to credit that anyone could believe it yet The Gotchee seems to.
I have no wish to slag the two named posters as both are genuine and interesting even if they have a somewhat quirky outlook.It is fair game to criticise a jockey you think is no good but ye both seem to get personal and some of the things Silvergreaser has said are plain malicious and unworthy of him.
It is only natural for your children when young to reflect a lot of their father,that does not make them robotic,you object to their humility and the fact they don`t drink surely things to be proud of.
Finally the reason the weights were raised was a report showed a huge amount of jockeys were consistently dehydrated,it was done solely for health reasons.People nowadays are much heavier and jockeys weights have been rising to coincide with that since the late nineteenth century.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l2r4MOu6dE gotchee an interview with Graham.

Wildman you're twisting it, its not preposterous to suggest that McGoldrick could've been influenced by persons of high authority within Horse Racing Ireland, now thats never happened before has it?, its almost part of the job description, I gave my reasons which are very plausible.
Did you read the interview link ref O'Brien family, it comes across as if Daddy has a huge controlling influence on them, its all well and good wanting the best for your children but you don't own your children, everyone is an individual but you get the feeling the O'Brien children are not allowed to think for themselves, outside is a big bad world they need protection from?.

Breakfast might consist of a few strawberries and a coffee before he works out in several layers of clothes and woolly hats, sometimes shedding four pounds in a session. “It’s hard to see what he has to put himself through,” says his mother. “I never thought he’d be able to keep his weight at that level . . . it’s really hard work; you have to be totally committed or you couldn’t do it.”

And thats good for Josephs health now is it wildman?.

I don`t mean to twist its just my take on it.
All fathers have an influence on their children and thats only right,especially when the particular father is of exemplary character,would you not rather they take some of their fathers beliefs than from some rapper or some pop star,they will be old and on their own for long enough.

That sadly is part of a jockeys life and maybe one of the reasons the good doctor wanted to raise the weights.

wildman plenty of jockeys are natural lightweights and have no problem controlling their weight and can eat healthily. I'll repeat myself again 8st4 is the minimum why would you feel the need to raise weights for races that were never a problem for any flat jockey to do the weight?, its obvious really, to broaden the opportunities for one individual, only the blind could say anything different, if they raised the minimum to 10st jockeys who are natural at 11st will diet to try to get close to the minimum, you just can't keep raising weights, no other racing nations have any problem with their current weight structures, and most of them have even lesser minimum riding weights.

his mother "never thought he'd be able to keep his weight at that level", yet 7 yrs earlier she bribed a doctor to raise the weights. amazing.

his mother "never thought he'd be able to keep his weight at that level"

Which makes it all the more plausible and who mentioned bribe?, big difference between bribe and influence, ie put in recommendation for a review with the aim to raising weights for maidens and condition races in your report, but no recommendation for the raising of the minimum weight, am I missing something here??.

I remember this debate in the late sixties when some natural light weight jockeys complained about the raising of the weights.The weights were risen this time because of a report that showed the majority of jockeys were dehydrated,it is only a matter of time before the weights are raised in other countries.

Wildman, I have never got personal in relation to Joseph O Brien, I have only ever discussed his riding ability which I believe to be average at best.  As for a quirky outlook, I am not sure what you are on about. On occasions I agree with silvergreaser because from personal experience I know what that mob are capable of and I don't think he is far off the mark in relation to the weight issue. I could tell you a story that would truly shock you but for fear of litigation I wouldn't discuss it on here. I wouldn't rate Aiden O Brien as the greatest trainer in the world. I would rate him a good trainer who trains the best bred horses in the world. Any half decent trainer could do the same job.  Attention to detail although a fine trait, doesn't make a horse run any faster. When he first went to Ballydoyle he had to be shown by the senior staff how to train the two year olds because he had come from a NH background and hadn't got a clue. Anything he learned about training flat horses was nurtured from the staff in Ballydoyle. Someone close to that scene once told me that Tommy Murphy has forgotten more than Aiden O Brien knows about training racehorses.

Quite apart from anything else ,I find it extraordinary that anyone would presume to know , not only how an internationally established trainer should train and run his horses, but also how they should bring up their family. The presumptuousness of some people just takes one's breath away.
Maybe the forum should open its own Social and Psychiatric helpline. Trainers could then ring up and get advice and counselling to show them where they're going wrong.

^ "Maybe the forum should open its own Social and Psychiatric helpline", very droll,the one word that springs to mind straightaway is inundated.
Good reading and debate the last page or so,My take on it is Joe is a lucky(talented as well) youngfella in this day and age,he is being well rewarded for keeping his weight in check.Couldn,t begrudge him in the slightest as he seems a mannered and well balanced young man.

This thread now resembles a carousel so I'm allowed to repeat the gist of an earlier post.

Aiden O'Brien seems to me to be a latter-day Calvin and is happy to spread his "perfect father", clean-living image to anyone who is interested (yawn). If he's still talking to Mammy 10 seconds after he wins every Group One in the world I might have a grudging admiration but, overall, I think it shows a lack of professionalism and class. Knowing that he spent some time in Bolgers wearing a fainne nua, pioneer pin, holy scapular and a rosary beads in his back pocket is cute but, jesus, save me!

Bolger is similarly imbued with a desire to clean up the world but differs from O'Brien in one sense: his is a one-man show and, apart from knowing Manning is his son-in-law, he keeps his family private. On the other hand the O'Briens have decided (ironically) to join the "Hello" celebrity bandwagon and this is a serpent that will bite anyone's head off. There are plenty of ghosts wandering the ballydoyle corridors that attest to this.

We know from Revenue records that certain trainers are guilty of being less than honest with tax returns but that misdemeanour fails to attract the opprobrium it deserves in this Congolese republic. However i believe that this thrusting of one's family into the public eye can only end in tears.

The debate on "Joseph" has been well rehearsed and, having feet of clay, my natural inclination is one of disdain because I perceive a privileged position being excessively flaunted in my face and perhaps taking advantage of recent medical prognostications.

I hope the sun continues to shine on the Tipperary royal family.

Its a public forum and I'd say its littered with presumptions on a daily basis?, just because its a presumption doesn't make it untrue?, of course I could be wrong and this sudden weight rise was all above board and for the benefit of all the jockeys in racing not just for one individual to almost starve himself to death to fullfil his parents long term plan for him.
I'm sticking to my presumptions, because there is enough evidence out there for my presumptions to carry plenty of clout against the arguments the sycophantic apologists put up in their blind defence of the indefensible.

I had to laugh at the psychiatric helpline bit obviously aimed at me and probably another individual, I'm sure if Aiden O'Brien was given a psychiatric assessment he'd be a prime candidate for years of psychiatric therapy?.

Are the O'Brien children the only mild mannered and balanced children in the world?, if one of them acccidently muttered the word "feck" I'd say it would be instant hell fire and eternal damnation.

That article from the Irish times was revealing in what it didn't actually reveal, I'll leave you with;

 
What about non-horsey distractions? Music? Socialising? Aidan answers for the children. “They don’t have time for any of that stuff . . . it’s full on here the whole time, when we are not racing we are discussing pedigrees or the mating, the only chance the lads have of escaping is on their phones . . . would that be right Ana? Would that be right lads? I should be letting you talk.”

Royal Academy I didn't see your post before I posted, excellent and honest assessment, but I can hear the knives sharpening as I type.

I don't fully know why but I am aghast at Royal Academy's post.We know him to be intelligent with a love of racing,his posts are detailed and worth reading which is why I am surprised at his sneering post,nowhere does OBrien flaunt his religion or lifestyle that is done by others,his phoning of others after a victory is to me a nice gesture but should he stop because others are offended by it and why are they offended.
The comparison with Bolger should be the other way round as Bolger forced his staff to attend mass at his private Oratory,refused to let them smoke or ride in races sponsored by Drinks companies,OBrien has none of these rules.
I am genuinely taken aback at the attitude towards the family especially the children,they seem to be genuine youngsters doing well,long may it continue.

Wildman, O'Brien is an employee where Bolger is in effect his own boss, compare like with like if O'Brien and his wife were to break out on their own in the morning.

As for the O'Brien children, do you not find it a little uncomfortable children been what can only be described as forced to wear dark shades and long crombies from a very tender age?, to me its disturbing looking.
Maybe people have a genuine sympathy for the children not the other way round?, independence of thought I'm sure is not top of the priority list in the O'Brien household?.

The whole reason for my cynicism wildman is precisely because we are constantly introduced to the children. Aidan O'Brien is a well-paid Coolmore employee spinning on behalf of the most successful bloodstock operation and his home-boy, listen-look-and-lads bumbling suits their purposes at the moment.

Coolmore could have a team of Crisford/Ferguson types spinning away in public but they discovered in Aidan a fantastic front man who has mastered the art of saying nothing.

I have one simple question: why push your kids into the picture when you are training bloody horses?

I find it stupid, naive, manipulative, foolish and foolhardy and exposing your kids to that limelight serves no purpose. I may be irrational but I'm not changing my mind any time soon.

whos the coolmore lacky who was in gowran yesterday.......seen him after the first on ATR......the usual self important tool......dark shades......poured into a suit......

Royal Academy you are far from irrational,I could be missing something as I have never noticed any pushing of the children into the limelight,presumably they race together because they like it,they seem shy and reserved,Aiden OBriens interviews are poor because he is not a natural in front of a camera,his use of the word listen is him trying to buy time,in some ways I think they are the antithesis of what is claimed here.
Nothing wrong with a bit of cynicism.

it is most infuriating to spell the champion trainer's name incorrectly.....
AIDAN.   cheers.

I think that's my second time making that mistake,it won't happen again.

ok wildman. it is an easy mistake to make....

"I find it stupid, naive, manipulative, foolish and foolhardy and exposing your kids to that limelight serves no purpose. I may be irrational but I'm not changing my mind any time soon".

But they're only trust into the limelight of the elite world of top class flat racing Royal Academy, that nasty place we call the real world doesn't exist for these children, they only see it from a shaded perspective.

Been paraded up and down Epsom and the Royal Ascots home straights dressed in ill fitting Top Hat and Tails with the customary dark shades, welcome to Daddy's strange strange world my dear children.

They are not being paraded,they are just walking the track another sign of his attention to detail.
If your children were interested in racing would you not bring them for fear of offending someone you don't know,I hope not.
I would never wear a top hat but he has to as that is the tradition,all trainers do as do their children,the sunglasses bit I don't get but where is the harm in children copying their father.

Wildman, you seem to be obsessed to with his attention to detail, what about his attention to detail with his tax returns?

I think we shud all just folly the 2 in front or they could folly us,or the 2 in front if they are not going fast enuff we mite folly them, or we mite folly Frankel or we mite sit closer to the pace, ah listen derek why do you folly me around,couldn't you folly someone else,why dont you folly francome, no derek I didnt say you can come I said francome, folly him him.......................

I have a friend who forces his 3 and 4 year old boys to wear a Liverpool jersey. When they are old enough they might choose not to wear one. These O'Brien kids eat, sleep and drink horses......it's a way of life so maybe time to build a bridge and get over it.

Okay so the current standings is that Joseph is at 57, Pat at 56 and Lordan at a remarkable 53 winners. Fantastic performance by Wayne Lordan.

Joseph now has the heavy artillery behind him

Quadriga
Flying the Flag
Up
Battleoftheboyne 

should all run there races.

Has about 3-4 2moro at Dundalk from his dad. All good looking chances. Hopefully he will kick on now and have it wrapped up before his bunch of international apperances curtail his program.

Should all run there races ruby?, I wouldn't bank on anything with the rancid mob, but I do notice a lot of the ones that run like 3 mile chasers are often ridden by Seamie and Colm and usually make their customary remarkable improvement when boy wonder is riding.

3 clear now I think.

Good book of rides 2moro. Looking good now!

Yea, another winner in the first at Dundalk.

Smullen has very much slowed down since Galway.

Champion jockey here we come young Joseph I reckon.

Aidan usually mops up all the Wednesday navan maidens in October etc.

Today was the day for Smullen if he was to have any chance of overhauling O'Brien with 5 fancied rides. 5 duck eggs.

With two good day's racing over the week-end where O'Brien snr will have a hatful of fancied runners O'Brien at 4's on must be a sure fire certainty to win out this year.

The only jockey in the whole wide world who can get away with putting up overweight almost at a whim?

Imagine another jockey constantly putting up overweight?, the owners and trainer would only have so much patience?.

Boy wonder is untouchable!

i dont mind him but that was awful. ted walsh "3 great rides"

Couldn't believe SNA was held up so much out of his ground.
He doesn't have a burst of speed but a gradual galloping wind up of momentum .He might never have won but I can't see that he got his best chance ridden that way.
Logically , using a pacemaker is supposed to make stamina rather than speed the deciding factor. SNA should have been up second to the pacemaker and gone on as soon as they turned in or even a little before to maximise his chance of a win. ( I had no bet btw)

Nice of the authorities to rearrange the Curragh Leger meeting to suit "Team Magnier"  while everyone else is inconvenienced. Just another example of the power they hold over the Turf Club.

Poor bait............

You're probably onto something there gotchee?, does seem odd that they're finishing with a group one 2yr old race instead of the main feature like they done Derby saturday, no coincidence that boy wonder hadn't got a ride in the Leger as Spencer is contracted to ride the Hay's horses.

well done young joseph.....you the man......what a great stable jockey to have......

Some pretty poor rides Joseph has put on late in the season even if the majority have come on the St Nicholas Abbey a proven dog of a ride for any jockey who looks as un genuine as any Montjeu I have ever seen.

Camelot today...I not sure he got the ride wrong per say, the horse was not good enough pure and simple. For a horse that won the Guineas you would have thought he would have had some change in gear especially off such a even pace, but he seemed to show little or no change of pace that Joseph obviously felt he had. He plugged on the same way all the way to the line but really was not gaining that much on the winner. Joseph panicked and threw the kitchen sink at him the last furlong as he plainly was not showing any change of gear that Joseph felt he had and that really was the story of the race for me. The winner stayed powerfully to the line(before easing up with Barcelona) and the finish really did give a skewed view of what actually happened. Camelot was not good enough today and if he had gone earlier in the straight who knows if he would have cut as he was very laboured when asked for the effort. He reminded me of a Fame and Glory as a 3/4 yr old towards the end of the race and he is no Fame and Glory. Horse looked flat to me. Blame the Trainer not the jockey on this one.

There will be a lot of head scratching where to go with him now after this. He looked flat very flat. I would cut out the year now and bring him back as a 4yr old. Don't make the mistake they have done with Fame and Glory and St Nicholas and have horses beaten by miles in the Arc especially having such a fantastic page and the death of the sire. He is still worth a hell of a lot of money but if he was to turn up in the arc and beaten and then try the breeders cup and beaten there. He has the potential to be the best sire of Montjeu if not the best actual racehorse(Hurricane Run). Up sticks and accept defeat.

2yr olds looks very poor next year also. May also come into the equation now. Really Really Really poor so far. Not even a Classic Horse yet for either sexes.

If they knew Camelot would stay the 1m6f, which Aidan O'Brien suggested by saying he should have run a couple of pacemakers, why the hell didn't they make more use of him today? He may not have been the Camelot from Epsom but it was very poor judgement by Joseph to be giving the leaders so much rope. But then again, he's been doing that for most of the season.

I would have expected Camelot to pick the rope up and win easily today. If he you in behind the real worry for me was how little daylight he put behind the rest of the pack. He has to be pushed very hard to be what 3l clear of Michealanglo and Ursa Major and Main Sequence another length behind.

Aidan O Brien can come out with all the excuses he wants as far as I am concerned this was a classic case of under preparation if he as well as they say he was. Either that or the horse put in a stinker on the day but this Stable seems to undercook there horses like no other when it comes to Group 1's. That practice has benefited them largely in the cost benefit analysis thru the years as they keep churning out Stallions with numerous Group 1 wins every year but today it backfired and backfired big time. If only they went to the Voltiger at York...oh why oh why did they not give him a prep.

Irish Derby could also have left a mark but then you are looking for excuses. Simply the best horse won on the day.

Joseph was 'too upset' to speak to the press after today's race. That says it all really!

I wouldn't fault the ride - I  agree with RIGITS that Camelot was found wanting and just came up short .
Of course Joseph would feel an acute sense of deflation post-race... there's naturally a feeling of letdown and anticlimax because most neutrals wanted the historic result and lots of people had more or less assumed it was a penalty kick , although the Irish Derby win would have induced a degree of caution.
But there's a good reason why history is hard to make - the  challenges undertaken are extremely difficult.
It was a heroic failure and full credit to Ballydoyle for taking it on.

I`m a JP O`Brien fan but that was a poor ride and he knows it....You can not get baulked and allow horses to get first run in a slowly run race,especially in a Classic....when he got daylight,he was 4 lengths behind

again i wouldnt be a critic of the lad but the best horse was beaten yesterday.
in my opinion they rode the horse too negatively, possibly trying to win without giving it a hard race. either way it was poor.

Can he do 8:12 + 8:13 tomorrow in HQ (Newmarket)

No way IMO JAY

Simply no way!

Well considering he put up 3lb overweight on Along (9.0) yesterday hell will freeze over first.

maybe if hes taken a massive dump since then and not eaten either!

I'd say a mouse has a bigger dump than Joseph considering he virtually survives on coffee and strawberrys and the weight rise was all for health reasons they tried to tell us?, this constant starvation can only be detrimental to Josephs health.
I presume he took yesterday off to starve and sweat his brains out?.

n/r

I can only presume the clerk of the scales put in an objection for the 8.12 horse Alfonso for it to be a late nr? and Joseph just about scraped the ride at 8.13 on up, by literally starving himself to death, and its for health reasons?, give me a effing break anybody with an ounce of a brain cell would admit that the weight rise was to accomadate Josephs quest for the title but at the same time his health has been sacrificed because Daddy dictated his sons destiny?.

3 ahead now and won again on that very good horse Declaration of War, there is a Coolmore Stallion if they just keep him sound. Fantastic looking animal and huge engine on him. Expect to see him in Group 1 before long!

8 13 on Sunday in Paris too. Pedro The Great. Prix Lagardere

Great Great Great ride by Joseph O Brien.

That was beautiful to watch. The horse was a beast today but he was seriously seriously composed there!

FFS ruby, will you kop on to yourself, he was on a steering job. Your credibility as a contributor on here has to be questioned when you come out with this sort of sh1t. Even though he wont win the jockeys championship,the ride Smullen gave Rite of Passage was different class.

As a racing fan the ride Joseph gave excelebration was beautiful to watch.
Gotchee you have an agenda so your comments are always a little bit over the top.

Great jock

My credibility

That was a beautiful ride, pure beauty, he was on the best horse by far but god that was beautiful to watch.

Irish Jockey Champion, lets all pick up the wads of cash lads!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BOOMMMMMM


HATERS HATE

Composed? more like he was lucky, it was a sub standard race and nobody got a march on him because they weren't fast enough.
I'd say at one stage O'Brien was in major panic mode?, and relieved to find when he got daylight none of the opposition were good enough, and nobody had kicked clear.

Good horses make good jockeys, Excelebration was simply superior and any old jackass would've won on it.

How was he lucky in fact he was very cool in the box seat on the rail. But yes the best horse won and any compentent jockey would have won on that but visually it looked a very very neat ride.

I wonder what Joseph's contract is like, he has won 2.3 million in the UK this year worth of prizemoney so say around 10% of that is 230k around 300k euro and made 3.7 Million gbp so say another 10% at 370k, so near enough 600k GBP so 800K EURO all in and say riding fees included. An 18 year old has then won the Breeders Cup on St Nick so you can arugably say he income tax returns or whatever he returns will be over the 1 Million euro mark in the last 12 months gross. I am sure he has also got interest in Stallion especially Camelot once he retires to stud.

OR MAYBE THEY JUST PAY THE WHOLE FAMILY A HUGE SUM EVERY YEAR. What ever way it works out, fecker has more money than I ever see and he is 18

So ruby the horses undoubted superior abilty had eff all to with the statistics you're spouting?

Of course they have, but I wonder what sort of remuneration package the O Brien family have down at Ballydoyle. Must run into the Million if not Millions every year.

CHAMPION JOCKEY

The O Brien's keep paying for xmas every year. Sensational stuff!!!!

Another solid group 1 winner yesterday. Be interesting to see how he gets on next weekend. Excellebration the only really good chance.

Could be a nice double for the family as with yesterdays RPT surely Aiden will be crowned champion British trainer.

I think Gosden has a lead still. Don't think he can win it.

Will anyone be on the lookout for Magnier racing to Lingfield tomara - he'll hardly go to Huntingdon for the 2.10.

Its called karma!

Looking forward to how Joseph has developed over the off season. He has to tidy up his riding but I think we will see a improvement in him this year. He has improved a the rate you would expect with a family he has but I think he has another notch to go. I personally think he will make that big step this year.

Poor ride on Master Speaker.

Good win for himself in Dubai..I think St Nick's winning will be done in America this summer. Not in the same league as Camelot

I really like Declaration of war but I think he is a 10f specialist. Breeders Cup Classic I be on ante post. Tomorrow not so sure

Another classic and amazing odds.

Disgusted I had nothing on him

the guy can ride horses but do you think Shane Foley would've lost on them?

After i saw Mr Foley ride a favorite there last week at Sligo, I wouldn't put him up on a donkey.

That was bloody awful...did you see it?? STEWARDS OBVIOUSLY DIDN'T

ruby just a point of view that any half trained ape can win on Aidans good things?, doesnt take as much as an atom sized particle of a brain cell to figure out that the horse wins a race?

Jockeys do help.

I always liked Eddie Ahern, now I know he is a corrupt.

I wonder how many times he stopped a horse that i had a wager on

Well done Joseph another Derby in the bag