Well done AOB for fooking up our great race.

Delighted Emulous destroyed misty and together and hope syt gets done by dunboyne xpress!!!!  Coolmore and Aob are turning into a cartel.

Is Prince Khaled from Cahirciveen or something?

How is it AOBs fault tho Is runnin probably his best horse?

Temlett
Date Joined:     03 Jun 10
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03 Sep 11 18:34
Is Prince Khaled from Cahirciveen or something?



The Prince is keeping Frankel in training and his operation is loss making so unfair to put him in the Coolmore bracket.

Nobody has put him in the Coolmore bracket. His operation is vastly superior this year.

As was pointed out by Richard Hughes today, the entry deadline for the Irish Champion Stakes was 30 March. They are getting what they deserve as a result.

I am a horse owner(very small time), and their greed makes me furious.  Im sorry, but its my opinion and I have a nice few pints onboard.

the entry deadline for the Irish Champion Stakes was 30 March.


Jaysus

Your opinion is not wrong and even if it was, you are still entitled to it.

Knob horse in a rubbish race,if he wasnt campaigned so conservatively he would have been beaten 4 times already this year

he is no Gallieo, Sea the Stars or Daylami.

He is a small bit better than snow fairy,the same as about 10 horses running at the moment.

at least obriens son not on board,,this horse v good ,but not the pegasus they would like us to believe..ps am i the only one who finds brian gleeson annoying.

See and there lieth(if there is such a word) the problem. He's not been campaigned for you and i or the greater good of racing he's campaigned for stud so don't be suprised to see him run in 4 runner races

0r127 looks generous big galloper no turn of foot

These prixx should realise that not everybody is as stupid as they think.They can hype him up all they like saying he could run from 8 to 12 furlongs and all the rest of it,the reality that breeders will not be fooled.Its there for anybody to see,he's a good horse thats about it.Would be a million in a top mile race and wouldnt stay 12f in a horse box,is by a garbage sire as well to boot.Hes more likely to run in the Champion hurdle than the Arc would be my reading of it.

30th March dedline is a joke

All Group 1s are more or less early closing. Are you people telling me that trainers and ownwers did not know they had a horse capable of running in the Irish Champion in march? You do not discover during the season you have a Group 1 horse. they could have closed the entries on Friday and had the same field.

deadline*, I think the facet none of Oxx, Weld or Bolger has a group 1 colt is exacerbating the problem, I could name a few from Britain and Frabce that could have this on their radar as well, but the programme in the Far East and Dubai is taking them away, where the hell are the Vision D'Etat, Cirrus des Aigles types?

fact*

Pidsulski, Pipedreamer, Notnowcato and Conduit, 4 examples off the top of my head, greed, just trying to drag in the cash as early as possible imo.

Sorry I should clarify, improving late developers, even Harbinger was being beaten in Group 3's at the end of his 3yo career

What has that got to do with anything. Do you know the lowest rated horse that was entered for the race this year? I'm talking about their rating today, not in march when anything was possible?

What I'm sayins is that the entry deadline of the race is too early, all of the horses I've mentioned turned out to be Group 1 horses, however, in March of say, Harbinger's 4yo season, Stoute couldn't have known for sure whether he would turn out to be a Group 1 animal, it is often far too early to tell imo, and thus, far too early to lay down a stack of your owners entry fee for a race the horse might not even take up, that is what I was getting at, nothing to do with ratings exactly as such. FWIW, I think Stoute knew he had a Gr 1 hoss, but something borderline like Pipedreamer is another thing, there is also the difficulty as to whether im2f is the right trip, tough thing to say for sure at that stage

Here are the entries:


NO. DRAW    HORSE    AGE    WGT    TRAINER RTF%    JOCKEY    OR    TS    RPR
2111-    Afsare443      4     9-7             —     —   
11/11-    Alainmaar483      5     9-7             —     —   
3311-6    Alexander Pope161      3     9-0             —     100     112
2127-    Anna Salai442     4     9-4             —     —   
Ansaab     3     9-0             —     —   
2-2    Apache160      3     9-0             —     92     99
17/11-    Await The Dawn364      4     9-7             —     112     121
02123    Calvados Blues161     5     9-7             —     —     123
23111-    Canford Cliffs402     4     9-7             —     —   
1210-4    Cape Blanco161      4     9-7             —     126     134
1211-    Casamento315     3     9-0             —     135     135
21317/    Casual Conquest728      6     9-7             —     —   
04383-    Cavalryman321      5     9-7             —     100     120
2    Claiomh Solais167      3     8-11             —     21     94
15726-    Cutlass Bay335      5     9-7             —     —   
135-00    Debussy161      5     9-7             —     66     128
22153-    Dick Turpin335     4     9-7             —     119     129
11-    Dubai Prince313      3     9-0             —     89     125
115-1    Dunboyne Express160      3     9-0             —     120     123
12/15-    Elusive Pimpernel490     4     9-7             —     —   
11115-    Fame And Glory335      5     9-7             —     107     128
11671-    Famous Name313      6     9-7             —     113     127
41011-    Forte Dei Marmi350      5     9-7             —     100     123
1115-    French Navy307      3     9-0             —     95     122
1733-    Jackaroo382      3     9-0             —     —   
1433-    Jan Vermeer416      4     9-7             —     —   
Marksmanship     3     9-0             —     —   
2136-2    Master Of Hounds161     3     9-0             —     127     129
51-    Memphis Tennessee288     3     9-0             —     81     95
13-116    Mendip161      4     9-7             —     —     119
01211-    Misty For Me335     3     8-11             —     113     131
475-13    Monterosso161      4     9-7             —     —     116
41234-    Music Show336      4     9-4             —     108     123
131/    Passion For Gold658      4     9-7             —     —   
111-    Pathfork357     3     9-0             —     93     133
03311-    Pirateer343     3     9-0             —     96     110
31342-    Poet315      6     9-7             —     118     125
119-20    Poet´s Voice161     4     9-7             —     130     130
111-50    Prince Bishop161      4     9-7             —     92     125
3-3    Quest For Peace167     3     9-0             —     38     95
11-    Recital294      3     9-0             —     100     129
1316-1    Rewilding161     4     9-7             —     113     129
71211-    Rio De La Plata300      6     9-7             —     69     126
21733-    Robin Hood342     3     9-0             —     89     109
3121-    Roderic O´Connor307     3     9-0             —     132     134
116-    Saamidd322     3     9-0             —     102     128
212-    Seville315     3     9-0             —     133     133
11-10    Simon De Montfort184      4     9-7             —     —     119
12411-    Snow Fairy265      4     9-4             —     120     130
11113-    So You Think305      5     9-7             —     —     135
111/6-    St Nicholas Abbey490      4     9-7             —     —   
21123-    Treasure Beach343     3     9-0             —     106     117
20353-    Viscount Nelson427      4     9-7             —     —   
2151-    Workforce335     4     9-7             —     114     137
21-    Yaseer262     3     9-0             —     70     89
61113-    Zoffany357      3     9-0             —     79     120


Who's missing?

Fair point, when you're right, you're right I suppose, anyone who is missing, I'd doubt finance would be an issue, but there are a few, Twice Over, Frankel etc, but I'd doubt finance was the issue.

as I was saying earlier, I suppose it must be the influence of other races abroad, further afield than the UK, very poor turnout all the same though

That isn't even a star studded list tbh.

You're saying that with hindsight. they could have been anything in that list in March. The fact remains that bar Frankel the 3yos are very ordinary.

Yes I suppose you're right there as well, I'll lay off the vodka, the problems with regard to attracting horses obviously run deeper so, one would like to see maybe a bigger entry from France, but barring that, yes, the race just ain't drawing them.

The fact remains the March deadline is NOT the issue. The horses are not there and they're are so many alternatives at this time of the season. We did well to have two genuine Group 1 horses running against each other this year and I would take the same scenario every year.

But would you think (this is the last cut I'll have at this), that maybe a small owner who has a nice horse, an Excellebration, Strong suit type owner not benefit from a later deadline, or would accomodating them not be worth the detriment of not getting the money in early from the others.

Tough on the small owner who might have a good horse, Yay or nay?

I think Tradefair makes Neill d argument for him,that entry list is proof conclusive that it is way too early.It suits the wealthy and is designed to keep out the small owner,twenty six of the original entries are Aiden OBriens.This once great race was devalued by todays renewal,have a look at the prize money on offer all the way down to eight,Red Mills deserve better.

It's a massive pot and the best horses will always get an entry. The problem this year was that Frankel was staying at a mile and was never really considered the race. That will not always be the case. We have had super clashes in it down through the years and it remains Europe's premier 10f race. Tell me a horse that will be rated higher than So You Think at the end of the season that could have ran today?

Anyone at Leopardstown today saw a proper Group 1 horse beat another proper Group 1 horse. Job done.

What I'm getting at wildman, the Hannon type owner with the relatively cheap hoss who might get a mile and a quarter is kept out, Dubawi Gold is another type I suppose. I'm sure they've weighed it up however, maybe they could have concessions for people who have bought a horse for under a certain figure

Name me a horse that

a) Will be rated higher than So You Think at the end of the season that could have run today?
b) Any horse that was not entered that would have been entered had there been a later declaration stage.

You are looking at the list with the help of hindsight, The majority of the entries were completely unexposed. You people just love a good moan. The fact remains a Group 1 horse beat a Group 1 filly. What more do you want?

I don't know should the question not be, 'would they have added to the race?', I think Excellebration for example, would have added to that race.

Dubawi Gold and Strog Suit are likely to chance Group 1s at Ascot at the end of the season. They would never have been thrown in the deep end today.

Not even theose horses specifically, but their type, in terms of price tag and perceived potential.

That was the worst ever renewal of that race.My views on So You Think are well documented to me he is the most overrated over hyped horse since Ribofilio and should not be mentioned in the same breath as most previous winners.
Neill d i am in complete agreement with you and think it is a system that favours the lazy block enterers.

I think I may have stumbled upon this oppinion rather than it being a long held one wildman, but the cap does seem to fit, it would be interesting to know the other deadlines for all age races in Europe before I completely put the boot in though, some of my favourite horses have been strong travelling cheapies

TradeFair     03 Sep 11 21:33 
It's a massive pot and the best horses will always get an entry. The problem this year was that Frankel was staying at a mile and was never really considered the race. That will not always be the case. We have had super clashes in it down through the years and it remains Europe's premier 10f race. Tell me a horse that will be rated higher than So You Think at the end of the season that could have ran today?

Anyone at Leopardstown today saw a proper Group 1 horse beat another proper Group 1 horse. Job done.

TradeFair     29 Aug 11 19:44 
Good post Soaap, like it. My views are in bold.


I think there may be a supplementary stage tomorrow so hopefully a further challenge will arise.

There is nothing else out there. Too many alternatives to this race and only second prize is up for grabs.

Snow Fairy for some reason doesn't seem to have found form this season. Add in the fact that she is running over a trip too short.

I agree. She will be a lay W/O. Nothing like a dead one in the w/o market

Famous Name is running over a furlong too far and needs a soft Group 1 to win one.

He will never win a Group 1 but can place here. I'd make him fav w/o


Everything nicely covered there Tradefair!

wildmanfromborneo     03 Sep 11 21:47 
That was the worst ever renewal of that race

I refer you to my post on the So You Think thread. 2008 was far worse.

The fact is that if Snow Fairy was not denied a run in France in the race that Timepiece was 2nd in, she would not even have turned up yesterday. As weak a group 1 as it was yesterday, they were very lucky to be saved from the race being a complete farce.

How much would Red Mills have paid to sponsor the race? It would be a very small percentage of the total purse?

Regards the OP,you pays your money and you takes your chance,they have their fair share of Yaks down in Coolmore as well as the so called "Superstars".

I have to say personally I was dissapointed to see the fav scramble home last night.

Giant Strides

Everything nicely covered there Tradefair!

Snow Fairy was a filly out of form this season and looked worth taking on but she proved me wrong yesterday. You can hardly argue that she is not a Group 1 filly regardless of her run yesterday.

From what I can make out SF has won 4 G1s and been 2nd in two others -winning about 2 1/2 million pounds .
By any reckoning she's a genuine G1 performer.

What would we have done if Aidan didn't run his three horses in the race? Would have been an even worse race. The really good horses aren't there anymore and we're strapped for top 1m2f horses at the moment. Name a top horse which would have run if Aidan didn't run So You Think. I bet you can't......