Spoilsports New Trading Strategy

TT - the figure in brackets is what was requested I think and the figure to the left is what they have offered.

Oh Yeah FFS unreal

i'm going to be totally out of line with everyone else here..I do all my business in betting shops and bar none spoils lay the best bet.
badblokes are a complete an utter nonsense and have given up
pp don't give u an opportunity, back a shortener or a clash horse and win or lose ur in trouble
independents are mostly finished. any stranger doesn't get a bet in tomfloods and bamburys and bruce's operate a strict one bet and ur out philosopy
SJ are a law onto themselves and as they're all effectively franchises they represent a dangerous betting medium

In any spoils shop they will bet you the first time ur in the shop and will give u a run if ur doing ur money. fair play!

Murphy

I take your point but to be fair they launched this 2 races the night before with a blaze of glory and got some good press from the racing post about this new innovation and I also take on board the need to control it if they price it up wrong. We all accept that  the shrewdies will hurt you if you don’t control your liabilities but come on laying it for 21 euro is a joke

I assume your messing by stating


In any spoils shop they will bet you the first time ur in the shop and will give u a run if ur doing ur money. fair play!


What bookie wont give you a run when your doing your money

boyles are the worst shower in ireland

bet with your local indo, its long odds on he needs the business and will lay you..
he might even lay u best price..!! imagine that??

What do you do after that bet Oldbean? [;)]

just rang boyles to have 100 ew dirar i was offered 20 win sp!!!!

i bet with oldbean and hes not afraid to lay a bet.its worth trying him lads..hes very fair and ill guarantee no one will be giving out about him here like spoils..

where is his shop kavvie

Is this oldbean bloke an indo in Offaly kavvie?

no..clare...1800 40 30 20.hes sound

Fair enough Kavvie - sounds like a proper bookmaker. [:D]

oldbean     25 Aug 11 12:11 
bet with your local indo, its long odds on he needs the business and will lay you..
he might even lay u best price..!! imagine that??

Two saturday's ago I was visiting family in Ratoath. I had a tip for a Dandy Nichols's horse and went to Tom Floods at and asked for 60ew at 33. After a phone call and major whispers the girl informed me that "we have taken a lot of money on that horse today, i can give u 25e ew at 33s and the rest at SP"

I might have been the biggest mug in ireland and not only was the bet an insult but her lies compounded it...4th at 16s b4 anyone asks!

In Ennis?

trooper thornton     25 Aug 11 11:43 
Murphy

I assume your messing by stating

In any spoils shop they will bet you the first time ur in the shop and will give u a run if ur doing ur money. fair play!

I'm not messing in the slightest. Last sunday backed 3 horses in a PP shop in the midlands. first time in the shop. from memory 500ew 7s (offered 150ew 7s - was clear top price - SP 4), 500 3s (went off bigger), 150ew 14s (went off 8s). the first horse was placed, both the others ran sh1t.

The following day in the same shop I looked for;
250ew 6s (gen), 400 4s (9/2 about), 400 4s (7/2 general)
I was offered 100win on each

Boyles were set up as a copy of PP in relation to the comfort they offered customers. The best way to get an edge on them is to use their facilities (view sports from very comfortable seating, have a cuppa and a bikki)and don't have a bet. As with most bookies nowadays,if you're a serious punter you shouldn't bother with their phone or online facility.

Each person's experience will differ but I find they're at least as good, if not better, than PP when it comes to in-shop betting.

Murphy their not knocking you back because your doing your dough its because you are beating them on price.

In the long run you will beat them and they know it

Isn’t it ironic with all the cr-ap in bookmaker shops about helping problem gamblers the truth is if your OUT OF CONTROL with your gambling (Gorey incident or losing reguraly) they will lay you all day but if your IN CONTROL of your gambling (winning) you will be knocked back

trooper thornton Isn’t it ironic with all the cr-ap in bookmaker shops about helping problem gamblers the truth is if your OUT OF CONTROL with your gambling (Gorey incident or losing reguraly) they will lay you all day but if your IN CONTROL of your gambling (winning) you will be knocked back


ironic and SHAMEFUL

ya' havin' that one dave     25 Aug 11 12:49 
just rang boyles to have 100 ew dirar i was offered 20 win sp!!!!

Why in the name of god would a bookie be laying you this bet e/w on an Irish horse in the States where this will not be reflected in the odds that it is allowed to go off at? Unless they can channel this money into the pool over there (and even then it may not make the ripple that it should), then this a no win situation on a horse that could go off at a far bigger price than it should do, or that is reflective of the money taken by the bookies over here - Correct decision made by them on this occasion.

wat a mug u are temlett why did they price it up if they dony want bets on it?

Pricing it up is one thing as they have probably been requested to do so, because of the publicity surrounding a trip. Laying significant money on it is completely different as they are on a hiding to nothing in what is likely to be a 1 horse book.

Asking for €100 ew on it was simple stupidity unless you are a very significant losing customer and they want to retain your business and are therefore prepared to take the odd bet on the chin.

so the largest independant in ireland are correct for knocking back a hundred each way on a 5/1 in the us.u really are a muppett of the highest order

in fairness to pp i was never refused a bet in their shops.im an infrequent user tho..botles are a joke on line or fone but if you are careful they will lay you smallish(under a ton) bets..and i agree if they advertise prices they should lay them..ton ew at 5s is a small bet surely..risking 200 to a liability of..625?..surely thata a bookies dream?..oldbean operates out of newmaket on fergus under the name"letsbet"

will give oldbean a shout

thanks for the plug kavvie, but the truth is there not all like u, im owed a small fortune from saying '' i'll be down after the race''
.........
been there , hasnt worked..!!

Oldbean do you know if it is against the law for a publican to ring through bets to a licensed bookmaker.
Think it is a grey area like the casino but cannot get a straight answer off anyone.

it is a grey area, they tried to stitch up ivan yeats a few years ago on something similar but failed...
short answer i dont know..

I may call into your shop some day oldbean. I regularly pass through ennis due to work. I have a few friends in ennis though and they said there is no indo in Clare that will lay a decent bet if you are a winning punter!!??

Definitely illegal.Vintners issued a warning to members about it a few years ago.

call if your passing ya, i dont do credit anymore but i will lay u , ps. if u start winning ill punt on your selections myself, ;)
bean..........

snap i can tell you he will lay you..i won a good bit off him over a few years..tho of late the tide is turning !!he is plucky..

oldbean
25 Aug 11 18:33 Joined: 23 Aug 03 | Topic/replies: 1,085 | Blogger: oldbean's blog
i dont do credit anymore but

I'm not surprised. There is hardly a punter in the country that would not knock these days.

and i doubt it is illegal to take bets over fone?if im next door to oldbean having a pint and i get the publican to ring him and have a bet how can that be a) illegal or b)be policed?

kavie, ive a good bit to go yet to get it back off u ,

TradeFair Joined: 09 Feb 11
Replies: 788 25 Aug 11 18:35   
oldbean
25 Aug 11 18:33 Joined: 23 Aug 03 | Topic/replies: 1,085 | Blogger: oldbean's blog
i dont do credit anymore but

I'm not surprised. There is hardly a punter in the country that would not knock these days.


Don't judge people by your own standards!! I would never not pay up on a bet and i doubt i am alone!!

Who's judging anyone? Please come into the real world. If you were a bookmaker would you offer credit in the current climate?

No but the part i highlighted is what i was getting at

I didn't say it would be easy to police but to the best of my knowledge a bet cannot be transacted i.e. cash change hands in any place other than a registered premises.A pub in Dingle was fined a lot a few years ago for facilitating illegal gambling.I don't think Customs would bother you unless they received complaints about it.

ReimerpYsatnaf - I stand by what I said. I don't see why you should take it personally. Off course there are genuine people around like yourself but the reality is that credit betting at the moment is not viable.

i see where your coming from.but with the advent of net betting and fone betting arnt bets transacted from all over the place?workplaces.sitting rooms kitchens toilets?..its prob outdated?

Surely there is a friendly solicitor on here who could find and post the  act/acts etc.

Yes tradefair i would not expect any credit betting in these times and yes there are wrong uns out there who would knock but hardly a punter in the country that would not???

i know plenty of pubs that you can have a bet in.i doubt if it will ever be prosecuted again.we have bigger problems than a few people supping a pint and having a bet!!an

i think prem that what he meant was that the amount of shysters has increased dramatically in recent tears..he just put it a bit wrongly!!

what if the publican operates a ready to go account (no credit)
he's punting with his own money?? anything in that ??

There is no way a publican could be prosecuted in that instance Oldbean. The problem with Ivan Yates was that the bets were supposedly taken to a shop and processed. Therefore he technically laid the bets on an unlicensed premises.

Please explain more Oldbean.

He basically means the publican places a bet on his own personal account for the customer in the pub.

the dpp will hardly be looking at it!!

Is it the handing over of stake and then getting winnings back(not very often) from publican the problem

Anyway I know of 5 different publicans that have all been told today by an Gardai that if they keep taking and ringing through bets from tomorrow then prosecutions will be forthcoming.

Are all the publicans in the same general area?

Yeah.

I'd imagine they received a complaint about one of them and couldn't single out one and leave it go in the rest.

Would think that but how can they back their threat up.
This could close one or two of these pubs.

I'm beginning to think The Soldiers could make a comeback at the next election.

they have little to be doing and the country rife with drug taking

And bookmakers that make a big song and dance about pricing races over night in the Racing Post. Only Walter Mitty can get a score or more on.

i get a score more on with spoils than i do with your mob....ffs people in glasshouse shouldn't really be throwing stones

Is'nt Sharon Byrne(formerly of Bruce Betting and Chairperson for irish bookmakers association) one of the top dogs in Spoils now. So it said in the Phoenix magazine a while back anyways.

Spoils are a waste of time. This night b4 prices has really worked a treat for them, drawing out the punters who have their homework done. Let's face it, who bets on a small irish race meeting the night b4 unless they have their study done and of course Spoils want recreational punters not serious punters. This goes for the Paddy Flowers lot too. 

The only thing a spoils shop is any good for is to take a dump in one

(pls excuse my vulgarity)

tradefair, was it really necessary to start a fred on this topic?  surely the dogs in the street know bookies will not take bets from anyone with a 3 figure iq.   please stop posting so much carp. thx

Murphyjust and Snorku - If yo're going to rubbish my points than please do so in the context of the thread.

Murphyjust -  If you would like to discuss William Hills trading policy than feel free to start a thread and I will join in.

Both of your little jibe does nothing to disprove my notion that the Spoilspors well publicied new 'trading decision' to price up at least two Irish races over night has been nothing more than a PR gimmick. The only consequence has been accounts shut down and clamped quicker. They are not even laying the God honest score a race punters overnight. They are treating their clients with complete contempt. They should be ashamed. Funny how Powers started pricing theses races without the PR coverage reactivily, the difference being they actually lay at the very least a token bet. Beware all Spoils shop punters. Next week you may be knocked back for biscuits. You will be allowed one curtard cream and the balance in bourbons.

your points are valid, however these bookies pick and choose their clients,   and i dont blame them,  why let a punter who is obviously good pick and choose when he wants to bet and the amount he wants to bet?

Again you miss the point. They can knock back all and sundry in general for all I  care. My problem is they have ****d themselves in the Racing Post about their 'new strategy in taking punters on' with over night prices. Not only has this not materialised they have in fact got worse. Do you think it's acceptable for a bookmaker to offer a 5/2 shot over night for a stake of €6? Tell me how they can justify that? What purpose to these overnight prices that got the Racing Post journalists to salivate over with column inches serve? If your going to offer €6 than stop messing around and just bet SP like everyone else until the morning.

JOHN BOYLE, SPOILSPORTS EMPLOYEES, PEOPLE OF DUNDALK, PEOPLE OF LOUTH AND THE REMAINS OF SHERGAR TURNING IN YOUR SHALLOW GRAVE... HANG YOUR HEADS IN SHAME. THIS COMPANY DISGRACES THE LOT OF YOU.

some marketing ar$eholes idea probably,   dont back horses so dont give a toss myself,   just hate seeing these treads when people express shock that bookies limit stakes,    all businesses limit stakes/risk,   insurance, banks (well not them sh1tbags),  history tells us that if it is possible, it will happen sometime

I'm not shocked, I'm outraged. I actually think the Racing Post need to apologise to readers for publishing the original articles, it's just not acceptable. There are £10 and £20 punters that cannot get on these prices. Don't step out of line with the statue quo (i.e SP over night) unless you know what your doing or are willing to lay horses to lose a certain amount. It's not good enough that genuine punters are treated with such contempt and only have the Betfair forum as an outlet to vent their anger.

to say that you are a hypocrite would be an understatement tradefair.yes spoils are a joke but hills just as bad and at least spoils prices are up at a reasonable time of the day.as for their limits,no worse than hills as i have an internet acc with hills which has a max take-out of £15 imposed on it ie £5 max on a 3/1 shot

thank god im on good terms with some hills shop staff!![;)]

TradeFair     Joined: 09 Feb 11
Replies: 801 26 Aug 11 02:04 
Murphyjust and Snorku - If yo're going to rubbish my points than please do so in the context of the thread.

Murphyjust -  If you would like to discuss William Hills trading policy than feel free to start a thread and I will join in.

hardly worth our while is it? It would be a very short thread "we are not prepared to lay anyone who demonstrates the ability to win"

They bet me what I like.Cant see any problem.

Maybe if the forum want a bet we should just PM Hammy and he could put on for us?

jasonk178.

So it's acceptable that £10 and £20 punters cannot avail of Spoils prices overnight because William Hill do not price up races until the afternoon. Good man, sound argument.

Interesting that Hammy & Murphyjust, known serious punters, not 2 bob arbers, are the only ones with any defence of Spoils. If you wish to get on, you can, but work is required so here is a bit of free advice: Keep off the puff for a night, bin the 3 litre bottle of cider, venture out of the knacker squat in which you no doubt reside and spread yourself around the hundreds of shops in ireland, produce cash-sorry no benefit cheques, and you may be surprised at what you will be laid cash over the counter!

FYI, bets laid today cash in shops, in Ireland, on Irish Horse racing, 400 win at 8/1, 400 win at 7/1, 300 at 14/1, all Spoils, yesterday, on AW UK racing in PP 280 at 16/1, 200ew at 25/1, offered half on both, happy enough at that level for crap racing.....some talk of Indos, tried for 100ew a dog in The Irish Greyhound Derby cash at 20/1, was offered 12.50 EW, so do me a favour, indos are great for the locals, and very similar to the big firms, they only want to lay losers, fully understandable, anyone who thinks these firms should be laying wide money is delusional.

this must be the first account Hills man Trade Fair has had restricted, and it appears to have given him a hard on.

tradefair spoils are a much better firm for irish racing than hills will ever be.when they go up the night before on races alot of the time theres no other firm priced up for them to follow or shorten horses just because someone else has.also the likley hood of getting one wrong is much greater (as you should know when you priced a general 10/1 shot 18/1 during galway and then tried to claim palm,you have no shame)

hills price up at lunch time after looking at all market moves and making sure they are absolute rock bottom price on anything that another firm has cut and also after making sure they dont go top price anything just incase someone has a bet with them first and they still lay to lose of max of £15 to me online,complete clowns the lot of you who work there.

And the funny thing is Billys are laying lumpy in the UK.

just after reading this i checked out a few prices..for instance gary o briens 3 today..whatever it takes:...pp 5/2(wh 11/8)par5 corals 5/1 (wh 9/2)and dr whizz pp 6/4(wh evs)...didnt realise it was that bad..they obviously just want to use the publicity of being on odds comaparason sites but dont want to lay bets..old william hill must be turning in his grave to see the way the company he formed is turning out...

kavvie its the same story every day with every horse in ireland with these clowns,even when they go a ridiculously short price on a jolly they will still be worst price on the 2nd fav,3rd in and 4th in usually!!! poor old tradefair thinks every horse is a "live one" as he would put it..

jasonk178.
27 Aug 11 09:45 Joined: 03 May 01 | Topic/replies: 362 | Blogger: jasonk178.'s blog
tradefair spoils are a much better firm for irish racing than hills will ever be.when they go up the night before on races alot of the time theres no other firm priced up for them to follow or shorten horses just because someone else has

They don't lay these prices to anyone yet had a blaze of PR about them. Can people actually read what my point is. I'm talking about the overnight prices, nothing else.

how the hell would you know that they dont lay the prices to anyone??? all you are actually saying is that you have a spoils account that is restricted,big fecking deal!!! i would normally empathize with someone in your position..but a hills employee on moaning about not being laid a decent bet is just taking the p1ss IMO.

Agreed jk, unfortunately i think these are the type of replies he wants. It's becoming more and more apparent to me that hills must be paying him for every constructive reply given to one of his posts on bookmakers.

Have you ever tried to have a bet on the overnight prices?

Thatcher
26 Aug 11 20:14 Joined: 29 Mar 11 | Topic/replies: 5 | Blogger: Thatcher's blog
If you wish to get on, you can, but work is required so here is a bit of free advice: Keep off the puff for a night, bin the 3 litre bottle of cider, venture out of the knacker squat in which you no
doubt reside and spread yourself around the hundreds of shops in ireland, produce cash!

Good advice. Painful but had to be done. I had to get on a €1,050/€300 Zanughan today and Spoils were top around lunchtime. 6 shops with €50. Job done.

Would sooner a firm priced up later and would lay a bet tbh.

Rather 10/1 for £200 than 12/1 for £5, 11/1 for £5, 10/1 for £5 etc, though as others have said going round the shops they'll probably lay you a decent bet.

Don't want to get involved but if a firm doesn't want to lay a bet they shouldn't go first up or price up overnight - Hills go up late as they want to lay bets on a more solid market, fair enough.  Boyles go up first and seemingly have no intention of laying anything - the 9/2 Blossom Gate last Friday was there a long time after I'd tried to back it, same with the price on Zanughan last night.

Would sooner a firm priced up later and would lay a bet tbh.

Rather 10/1 for £200 than 12/1 for £5, 11/1 for £5, 10/1 for £5 etc, though as others have said going round the shops they'll probably lay you a decent bet.

Don't want to get involved but if a firm doesn't want to lay a bet they shouldn't go first up or price up overnight - Hills go up late as they want to lay bets on a more solid market, fair enough.  Boyles go up first and seemingly have no intention of laying anything - the 9/2 Blossom Gate last Friday was there a long time after I'd tried to back it, same with the price on Zanughan last night.

Yeah lets run around the shops. I live 20 miles from my nearest boils, powers, lads.

Do you want a cream egg Tradefair.

Good point about creme eggs. They're not laid overnight either.

Despite the Racing Post reporting 32 hours ago that the summer Supreme Novice favourite Cheltenian could miss the whole of the National Hunt season, Spoils still quote 8/1. The other 5 bookmakers on oddschecker quoting prices on the market have had the sense of fair play to remove him from their lists. However the fearless Louth layers, under their new trading strategy, are taking laying 'dead ones' quite literally.

Form an orderly queue for the 8/1 because you won't get the price anywhere else.

Look it, i think once a firm has layed one in an antrepost marktet, it's fair to say they leave the price low enough until it's been scrubbed from the race, this is an obvious mistake form boyles here but i'm sure none of their 'recreational punters' have been 'caught out' by this pricing error. For instance Tradefair, if you logged on to your account, i'm sure you can't get a score on cheltenian, so they're not looking to lay it per say ???????????????????????????????????????????????

All the books are at it, take the english 1000 guineas for example, there are two horses in the betting with most firms that any bookmaker should be offering their win prices on these horses for the them to be turning up in the race proper not winning it, la collina 12's and teolane 33's, explain that my friend ?????????

You're contradicting yourself.

Look it, i think once a firm has layed one in an antrepost marktet, it's fair to say they leave the price low enough until it's been scrubbed from the race

It's entirely likely that the firms have laid La Collina and Teolane already. Neither horse has been scratched from the race so by your post they are entitled to quote them artificially low.

I doubt either La Collina or Teolane will run in the 1k but comparing two horses who ran yesterday and we know to be in some sort of shape to a horse who has been reported to have had a setback and the probabilty is that he will be out for the season is stupid.

This practice is not beneath bookmakers, On the day of the british open when Darren Clarke was something like 1/7 and there may have been two or 3 others who were below the 100/1 mark, As far as I could see the next 10-15 players quoted were not the next names on the leaderboard and were actual no hopers who were well down the field. This was in the Curragh so u all know wat bookies it was then.

This new practice of being top price about everything you can be is to get accounts open and then laying 25 euro on it is complete    cun tish. Sid James must be top price on some amount of horses on Irish racing.

sinndar001
30 Aug 11 01:47 Joined: 19 Jan 06 | Topic/replies: 735 | Blogger: sinndar001's blog
I doubt either La Collina or Teolane will run in the 1k but comparing two horses who ran yesterday and we know to be in some sort of shape to a horse who has been reported to have had a setback and the probabilty is that he will be out for the season is stupid.

Cheltenian removed from their Supreme Novice list this morning. Amazing scenes.

I'm not contradicting myself, and no i don't think will hill are entitled to quote these horses that won't run in the race artificially low, i was merely stating that all the firms seem to do this, ladbrokes least so strangely enough.

When one firm still quotes a known non runner in their market, i'm sure it is just a clerical error and anyone stupid enough to look for a bet on the selection should be made ban themselves before they leave the bookies.

Presumably you checked your max bet on cheltenian and i'm sure it was about a fiver, that should've answered your question that no they are not out to get it because it's a known non runner.

Where have I asked the question are they trying to lay a known non runner? I was not asking any question I was stating a fact that they had not removed the horse from their list thirty six hours after the RP had stated he was likely to be out for the season. How can you be certain I would have been offered around a fiver unless you have access to my account restriction limits? The plot thickens.

Tradefair-when you report Spoils to The European Court of Human Rights over Cheltenian, please add VC/BSQ/888 for still laying thousands on Whiplash Willie for The Leger next week, when it is also a confirmed Non Runner, they must be cleaning up with people fighting to get on, in fact people are unsure which queue to get in, the Cheltenian queue outside Spoils or The WW queue outside the other 3.

Get real, an oversight on all their parts, it happens, will not be a bet struck on any of the horses in question.

So what your saying Thatcher is that they trade their ante post races the same as the Irish races priced up overnight. I.e Display whatever price you want as it does not matter because a bet will not be struck. Thanks for clearing that up.

From Johnathon Mullin's article today in the Racing Post:

Boyles have seen a near 100 per cent increase in their early-price business on Irish racing, an the company's Noel Hayes reposrts an increase in turnover of almost a third on the evenings

What he fails to mention is that Spoilsports have used the overnight prices for nothing but PR spin (which he adds to with this article) and as a vehicle to restrict even more accounts than before there indroduction. Perhaps Johnathon Mullin should ask whats the increase in account restrections in the same period as the increase in turnober? That would make intersting reading.

Also Noel Hayes is so insecure to critcism of their 'new trading policy' policy that he went to the trouble of seeking to find out who was behind the 'Trade Fair' username. I wonder did he infringe any of his company's privacy polcies in doing so.