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happy irishman
21 Aug 11 17:35
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Date Joined: 12 Jul 03
| Topic/replies: 157 | Blogger: happy irishman's blog
According to Pat Spillane, The Gooch is the best he has ever seen.
Pause Switch to Standard View Is Colm Cooper (The Gooch) the best...
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Report Mr Mischief August 21, 2011 5:36 PM BST
Maurice Fitz was better
Report paddletoe August 21, 2011 8:41 PM BST
First of all if your the best ever forward of all time then your best ever player of all time.

I would not disagree very strongly with anyone who reckoned Gooch is the best player to ever play gaelic football. Between him and Peter Canavan for that title. Very marginal matter of opinion between these two. No one else is close to coming into the running.

Side tracking a little i would be interested to find out what the laws of the game state about the way Gooch bounces the ball. More precisely i am referring to the way he shows the ball before boucning it.
Report kavvie August 21, 2011 9:33 PM BST
hes the best forward i ever seen.followed closely by peter canavan,maurice fitz and matt connor.jacko and mick o connell best midfielders.best back has to be tomas o se with martin o connell not far behind.i dont see any issue with the way the gooch bounces the ball?
Report Rocketfingers August 21, 2011 9:43 PM BST
The Gooch is a player for the ages !
Report silvergreaser August 21, 2011 9:49 PM BST
The guy seems equally as good with either foot a rare talent indeed!.
Report GANT007 August 21, 2011 10:20 PM BST
A super player......I would rate him slightly ahead of Peter Canavan.
Report Upthewaterhill August 21, 2011 11:03 PM BST
You could hardly argue with this post, GAA lucky to have got him. No other Gaelic footballer has ever delivered this consistently.
Report DarkRosaleen August 22, 2011 12:27 AM BST
No Jimmy Keaveney was and i should have no say coz in Kerry women are second class citizens.
Report Kelly August 22, 2011 1:00 AM BST
Always dangerous to classify anyone ( or 2 ) as the best ever .

If the Gooch was playing for Laois ( for instance ) would this post ever have surfaced ?

If you check back on some of my posts over the years you will know how highly I have consistently rated  Colm Cooper , even in the few instances where Kerry have lost out .

Pat Spillane himself rates very highly in my list of all time great forwards , but the Gooch and he are two completely different type of players . Spillane bust a gut for years and years in winning his 8 All-Ireland medals  , doing the hard yards and sometimes popping up in defensive positions . Preferred him as a footballer than a critic though .

The Gooch is brave , clever , beautifully balanced and accurate off both feet .  But he has played on possibly one of the top 5 teams of all time in his career to date .  That is a big factor in making assessments or comparisons . Mikey Sheehy and co were brilliant  , but a lot of their success came from playing alongside The Bomber who made the snowballs .

Top 5 certainly Colm  of his type of play , but how would he fare playing for a lesser team ?
Report DarkRosaleen August 22, 2011 1:05 AM BST
I have read all of your recent posts[you were silent for a long period] and you should stick to the golf.
Report Kelly August 22, 2011 1:13 AM BST
Dark Rosaleen , my ole pappy used to say "empty vessels make most sound " .  No point in corresponding on rubbish topics I reckon .

My point is that where others were knocking Cooper for below par performances , I was not . Never have  , probably never will .  He very often is worth the entrance fee money alone .
Report DarkRosaleen August 22, 2011 1:15 AM BST
You sound wise,do you think i have been treated fairly.
Report paddletoe August 22, 2011 1:21 AM BST
Canavan and the Gooch are simply on a different level to anyone else. If there was a transfer market in gaelic and both players were up for sale at their peak i would go for Canavan. Others might rate Gooch marginally better but either way these two fellas are on a different planet to anyone else.

Pat Spillane... I would rate him no better than a very good player who made the most of fairly limited natural ability. In no would i ever rate him a great player.

In my opinion the next best forward behind Gooch and Canavan was Matt Connor.
Report DarkRosaleen August 22, 2011 1:24 AM BST
What about Jimmy Keaveney?
Report paddletoe August 22, 2011 1:28 AM BST
Aye, being a young boy in the 70's i have very fond memories of Jimmy Keaveny. Loved watching him. Not sure he would rate that highly though in the roll call of great full forwards. But from a persoanly point of view he was always one of my favourite players to watch as a young boy.
Report DarkRosaleen August 22, 2011 1:31 AM BST
Thanks Paddletoe for treating me as human,you are a gentleman.
Report timberman August 22, 2011 1:31 AM BST
LARRY TOMKINS,MIKEY SHEEHY,COLM O ROURKE,..others to consider but gooch is probably the best in the past 40 years i can recall but even the present kerry team dec  o sull in particular are gifted with o se brothers also exceptional...
Report Kelly August 22, 2011 2:01 AM BST
Keaveney played the "old mans game " .  Patrolled the area between the 14 and the 21  , was the go to man for scoring , and seldom wasted a ball .  Could not see him playing football of the type some of you posters profess to love where four or five forwards hand passed and ran around to create scoring opportunities .

One of the things The Gooch does best is to be able to beat a man one on one .  Very few "modern " players can do this , either because they have not got the innate skill or because the patterns of play nowadays preclude this as a wise tactic . Canavan could , as well as a host of others from the past  , and was an excellent playmaker  , but he was markable .

Forwards come in all shapes and sizes  , some can influence the game by what they do without the ball . The good managers can suss out how best to use the talents at their disposal , and at the end of the day it is about the team result .

Pat Spillane probably made team of the century , Paddletoe  , he was top 5 in the best ever team of all time , never ever saw him underperform when he was fit .  Did laugh a bit when reading his book and noting that he was uncomfortable about being overlooked for an All-Star in 1991 , maybe he never actually sat down and watched the All-Ireland semi final that year .  But he was not the player then that he was in the previous decade  , knees dont last forever .  Nobody could mark him for 60 minutes in his prime , never mind 70 minutes . Great engine and he took it out of the guys chasing him  , important that as it makes it easier for the rest of your team . To me that is part of the formula  , not just the flashy bits .
Report Mr Mischief August 22, 2011 4:56 AM BST
My humble opinion(ie my lifetime)you have the Gooch, Canavan Joyce and M Fitz.If the Gooch keeps going the way he did today he'll take this accolade hand's down but he's not quite there just yet, not too far off it either, mind.
Report paddletoe August 22, 2011 7:51 AM BST
Good to see agreement thats the title of best footballer of all time is a straight shoot out between Gooch and Canavan. Never thought anyone would ever get close to Canavan but Gooch is definately giving the Tyrone man a good run for his money. With better players around him Gooch has had more big games to show off his skills. I would personally judge it on who would be the best player at their peak and i would go for Canavan.

But here are some stats so people can make up their own mind.

Pretty much single handely Canavan took Tyrone to three consecutive all ireland U-21 finals, winning two of them. Again, almost single handedly he took Tyrone to the 95 all ireland final, scoring 0-8 against Derry in Ulster, 1-7 against Galway in the semi final and 11 out of 12 points in the final defeat by Dublin. In the all ireland semi final the next year he was taken out of the match by Meath when he made his first run and was injured for two years.

He scored over 50 championship points when Tyrone won their first all ireland in 2003 ( when he was an old man ) scoring 0-11 in the Ulster final.Who will ever forget him coming back on from the bench two years later to win a second all ireland. Over his carreer he took an unfashionable Tyrone team to 4 all ireland senior  finals and probably would have taken them to more but for injuries. He also saw his club team dominate in Tyrone, a club team which was only in formation 10 years, winning two ulster club titles along the way.He even won an all star one year solely on his club form.

Gooch has no under age honours. Yes, he has more all irelands but thats an unfair comparison. So lets examine the individual scoing of both players. Gooch might look a more naturally skillful and graceful player but the scores on the doors dont lie. Here they are...

In terms of championship scores the facts are very telling. If Gooch stopped playing today he would be 9 points behind Canavan but having played 5 more championship games. Yet Canavans scoring record includes matches he played up until he was 35 and well past his best. Gooch's scoring record would only include matches when he was aged under 28 and at his peak. Moreover, a lot of Gooch's scores come off having Donaghy as foil. Canavan never had the luxury of such a big full forward to feed off. But theres more. A lot of Gooch's scores come in Munster where he has target practise against some of the weaker counties.

I am not taking anything away from Gooch. He is a great player and the liklihood is that we may never see the likes of either Canavan or Cooper again in our lifetime, possibly ever.

But for me Canavan shades it in the battle of greatness and on the altar of who is the best of all time.
Report paddletoe August 22, 2011 8:14 AM BST
Gooch averages 4 championship points per game. He is a beautiful player to watch. But if Canavan had to play championship matches each year against Clare, Limerick and Tipperary while he was in his prime they would need to send out for a second score board.
Report Newmanix August 22, 2011 12:40 PM BST
To reply to the op.  No.  He is a knacker and should have got a ban in the Munster final when he put his hand around a Cork players throat who was on the ground and put his full body weight on him while getting up and saying whatever he said.  Any other player would have been banned, but not our skinny, smiley, freckled, typically ugly Irish, red haired kerryman.  I hope the Dubs beat the sh1te out of them in the final so we can see the kerrymen crying like babies again.  Scumbags..................Rant overDevil
Report Kelly August 22, 2011 12:46 PM BST
Never thought I would see a died in the wool Tyrone supporter asserting that Tyrone ( with Canavan playing ) were essentially a one man team .

Dont subscribe  necessarily to that view myself , but it is interesting .

The Gooch has done things on the pitch that nobody else ( including Canavan and other brilliant performers ) has done in my 60 odd years of viewing football . I have also seen him shackled by some very good defenders  , but that is to their credit rather than his discredit .

Football is a team game , all men are not equal , and the scoring forwards nearly always get the headlines .  Few people are interested in how many tackles and hits defenders put in , I am , there are 15 players on a team and only one is going to be top scorer .

When I played myself I was always top scorer on any team I played for , scoring was easy if you had two good feet . good peripheral vision  and a bit of golf savvy . But I was not always the best player on those teams  , sometimes not even the best forward .

The media however like records , forwards nearly always get man of the match , but the only people who really know each players contribution to the team effort are those on the pitch and those in management ( well sometimes  , and I am sure  Paddletoe like myself could name managers who were not always clued in as to what was actually happening on the pitch to their team ) .

Easily the best forward ( scoring or otherwise ) in the last decade  , The Gooch , but where he fits in overall in a general description of the best forward ever depends on the criteria you lay down .

As an aside  , how come the match pair ( by certain peoples reckoning ) have no great "international " credits to their name ?  Just a thought for debate .
Report thefly10 August 22, 2011 7:31 PM BST
Is Colm Cooper (The Gooch) the best Gaelic Football forward ever?

I'm gonna say yes he is .. The Gooch has everything, definetly for me the best forward ever to grace the game. He has his back pocket to show it. He has been playing on of the greatest teams there was, if not the greatest.
Report neill d August 22, 2011 9:46 PM BST
Declan O'Sullivan, Seamus Moynahan, Tomas O'Se and sean Cavanagh are the best all round players I've seen. I think the inside forward area is a category in itself to be honest, the best I've seen there are Cooper, Canavan, Maurice Fitz, caught the tail end, Bernard Brogan has the potenyial to join them.

I'm 22 btw, just a special category as well of players I've just enjoyed watching/ won't get the credit they deserve, Seanie Johnston (Cavan), John Galvin (Limerick), John Quane (Limerick), Declan Browne (Tipp), Paddy Bradley (Derry)

2 to watch out for:
Shane O'Rourke (Meath)
Aidan O'Se (Mayo)if he gets his fitness up.

Most overrated players
Ross Munnelly (Laois) hugely overhyped along with an average Laois team in the mid noughties imo
Kieran McDonald (Mayo) took too much out of the ball imo
Report The Gotchee August 22, 2011 10:37 PM BST
The Gooch has played one good game in the past 12 months against a team who struggled to beat London. Some people on here are getting carried away. Good player that he is,  Gooch isn't in the top twenty of football greats.
Report Mordin. August 22, 2011 10:41 PM BST
Just watched a few youtube videos on Canavan to remind myself how good he was. Agree with everything Paddlejoe wrote. Canavan for me. Gooch may catch up with him though. Gooch will need to win his club an All Ireland title.

I sometimes think the difference between a county player and a good club player is that a county player can slightly overcarry and get away with it. Giving them more time on the ball and therefore more vision.
Report squigs August 22, 2011 10:42 PM BST
McDonald was certainly not overated. He could carry Mayo on his own, what that team would have done for him yesterday, beautiful strike of a ball and strong as an ox.

Gooch has had 2-3 ordinary enough seasons by the admittedly incredible standards he had set between 02-05
Report revedesivola August 22, 2011 11:46 PM BST
as a wexford man i think matty forde is! retired now of course but anyone who looks very good when playing with fooking trees is surely worth a shout. i think the gooch is good, but i never see him scoring very good points, ie from far out or at difficult angles. undoubtedly very talented but the best ever? surely not...!
Report yourlack August 23, 2011 7:21 AM BST
U rarely see cooper scoring points from far out or difficult angles because he very rarely goes for them, he would rather pass the ball to a team mate in a better position. this is one of his best attributes i think its not all about him.
Report DarkRosaleen August 23, 2011 8:33 AM BST
What is the meaning of his nickname?
Report yourlack August 23, 2011 8:45 AM BST
it means attention seeking w. hore. Taught you of all people would know what that means.
Report thegalwayman August 23, 2011 9:09 AM BST
Ciaran McDonald remains the most talented footballer I have seen. Phenomenal.
Report DarkRosaleen August 23, 2011 9:36 AM BST
Yourlack what a horrid uneducated post,thought is the word you were trying to say in your second sentence not taught,you correctly give that a capital but omit to start your sad post with one.
Report DarkRosaleen August 23, 2011 9:51 AM BST
The timid Yourlack having made a fool of himself is trying and failing to come up with a reply,it is no wonder he is unemployed and single.
Report Kelly August 23, 2011 12:22 PM BST
Come on girls , stop scratching each others eyes and pulling hair  , this thread is ( mainly ) is about real men who have graced our pitches and screens .

McDonald was very good , bit too individualistic for my liking , but phenomenal not in my book .  Phenomenal would be reserved for the likes of Tiger and Jack in golfing terms , anyone who dwarfed the opposition continuously for a long time . Cant apply that in his case .
Report neill d August 23, 2011 1:36 PM BST
I'd say McDonald was quite frustrating to play with, he delivered the ball when he wanted to rather than when his colleague wanted it, he was eyecathcing, but lacked pace and was a failed corner forward so lacked versatility. I think he was overrated and I don't hear many who played with or against him say he was a great, I'd reckon a top class centre back like McGeaney or Moynihan if he fancied actually marking someone, would ate him. If you put someone like Moynihan or Tomas O'Se on him, they would cause havoc as he simply wouldn't chase back.

He is too flawed to be a great imo, he also really only had one truly great season and never won an All Ireland. I also get the feeling that he needed the team built around him and runners to thrive. Watch the way galvin accurately kicks the ball into Gooch, it is just as effective and not nearly as slow or elaborate. He was a very skillful player, I make him that as distinct from a great.

I must say I've enjoyed watching him but he is in no way a great player.

I'm surprised by you're comment galwayman as I would put Padraig Joyce miles in front of him, I have donnellan in front of him as well, but you're entitled to your oppinion of course.
Report neill d August 23, 2011 1:40 PM BST
I think Mcdonald also built a 'persona' as an individual renegade and it colours peoples perception of how good he was.

Its similar with Galvin, his importance is slightly overstated, he is a top class intercounty player, among the top 10 or 15 playing the game today, but I wouldn't have him in the same parish as Tomas O'Se or Cooper.
Report Kelly August 23, 2011 2:01 PM BST
Collectively the current Kerry forwards are a better unit than their defence  , so seen on the scorelines in matches they are involved in .

Galvin is a very important part of that unit , when he is playing ( well) the opportunities for the likes of Cooper and Daragh O'Sullivan are always there .  Declan O'Sullivan makes the forwards tick , my kind of player , overall his worth may only be apparent when he is no longer playing .
Report neill d August 23, 2011 2:17 PM BST
O'sullivan is best all round player playing today
Report tobywong. August 23, 2011 2:37 PM BST
forde without doubt the most talented and best player i have ever seen
Report kavvie August 23, 2011 2:37 PM BST
joyce and mcdonald while good players couldnt be put in same league as either gooch,matt connor or peter canavan.these 3 were game changers and geniuses..matt scored 3-9 off the famous kerry back line in the all ire semi in 80..and he wouldnt have had an awful lot of back up...
Report thegalwayman August 23, 2011 2:45 PM BST
Ciaran McDonald was more talented than Padraig Joyce or Michael Donnellan, but he possibly did not make the most of talents. That is probably down to being managed by a clown like Maughan rather than the player himself. Calling McDonald a failed corner forward is nonsense. He nearly beat Galway on his own from corner forward in 1998, and that Galway team went on to win the All Ireland. Mayo moved him further out the field to try and benefit from his range of passing- best passer I have seen- but they never really seemed to know what to do with him and they got rid of him too soon.

Padraig Joyce has definitely made the most of his talent, while Michael Donnellan was absolutely amazing for about 4 years and had bit of a swansong with Salthill. Joyce, Donnellan, Ja Fallon and Paul Clancy are the best Galway players I have seen, with Donnellan being the most gifted of the lot.

Finally McGeeney was not a great centre back. He wasn't even a good footballer. He was a great athlete, but the dirtiest footballer in the history of the GAA.
Report neill d August 23, 2011 2:52 PM BST
I wouldn't consider Joyce or Donnellan a great, I was just comparing them to McDonald as I tgought the galwayman would be well placed to comment, I don't think the criterion is natural talent anyway but 'greatness' alone
Report thegalwayman August 23, 2011 3:03 PM BST
You're right, Padraig Joyce is only middling. Sure he only won 2 All Irelands (so far!), scoring ten points in one of those finals.
Report neill d August 23, 2011 3:18 PM BST
We're talking in terms of the best of all time here, would you say he was as good as Cooper or canavan, you're the one that rates McDonald better than him, I'd have him streets ahead of McDonald
Report Mr Mischief August 23, 2011 3:22 PM BST
Paraic Joyce easily one of the Greatest footballers ever to play the game.He's been consistently brilliant for Galway throughout his career bar maybe a lull when Peter Ford was employing a negative approach which didn't suit him or anyone else for that matter.

As for not being a 'game changer' he scored the goal that got Galway going in 98 when he rounded Christy Byrne(something younger forwards lack the skill today going on the evidence of last Sunday) and practically owned Meath all by himself in the 2nd half of 01.That's 2 All Ireland Finals he directly influenced victories for Galway. Not much of a game changer indeed..
Report neill d August 23, 2011 3:25 PM BST
I'm not slagging Joyce, i'm just surprised that a person from Galway would consider mcdonald a better player, that is whats being discussed btw galwayman, not natural talent and flair, but who was the more effective, It is just a surprise to me that you'd rate McDonald over Joyce. Joyce was a fine player and I'd much prefer him on my side than McDonald when the money is down.
Report kavvie August 23, 2011 3:38 PM BST
to say mcgeeney was the dirtiest player in gaa history is a very irresponsible statement and downright wrong.its why forums like this are so dangerous.anyone can say anything.so of all the club  and county corner backs down the years and hatchet men employed to "slow down"young lads mcgeeney was the worst?you should retract that statement at least.
Report kavvie August 23, 2011 3:38 PM BST
to say mcgeeney was the dirtiest player in gaa history is a very irresponsible statement and downright wrong.its why forums like this are so dangerous.anyone can say anything.so of all the club  and county corner backs down the years and hatchet men employed to "slow down"young lads mcgeeney was the worst?you should retract that statement at least.
Report the stunning August 23, 2011 3:47 PM BST
SEAN PURCELL will always be the greatest footballer in the history of gaelic football,micheal o muircheartaigh even said so,and he has seen them all[;)]
Report thegalwayman August 23, 2011 4:23 PM BST
I don't know why I got involved in a nonsense argument where there can be no winner. It's like being stuck in a pub that doesn't serve drink with people I don't like and whose opinions I don't rate.

McDonald is the best footballer I have seen. Skill, speed, strength, could take a score, incredible passer. Padraig Joyce is still a brilliant player, and one of the best forwards to ever play football.

Kieran McGeeney is the dirtiest player in the history of the GAA and kavvie is the worst forumite in the history of Betfair.

You are all entitled to your views. Good day to you all.
Report neill d August 23, 2011 7:05 PM BST
Why the hell did you get involved in the debate then you f u c k w i t
Report Kelly August 24, 2011 12:18 AM BST
Saw Purcell once I think , but I was young then and he was carrying a bit of weight so only vague impressions for me .  Stockwell and he had a brilliant understanding  apparently .  Purcell  Top 5 of all time in his position , but best ever is always hard to quantify and measure given the evolving nature of any game .

Centre half forwards are the link between midfield and the scoring forwards , very often they are working hard collecting broken ball from midfield and distibuting it forward to those in good scoring positions . This often negates their natural attacking instinct and limits their opportunity to "bust the net " which should be an essential measure of a really great forward . Very few can be good ball winners on the 45  and net busters as well . Do both and you deserve the "great " adjective .
Report the stunning August 24, 2011 9:50 AM BST
Never seen him play kelly,but talking to many who did down the years all talk of he's massive ability to change and win a game.He was a huge man with incredable skill with the knack of being in the right place at the right time.Only mick o connell can be talked in the same breath.Cooper not in the top 5,would place mickey sheehy ahead of him.
Report worple12 August 24, 2011 1:18 PM BST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4E6c6Q8wkis
Report worple12 August 24, 2011 1:41 PM BST
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BkNKLrSmAA&NR=1.
Report paddletoe August 25, 2011 12:32 AM BST
While i would never rate Ciaran Mc Donald in the same league as greats like Canavan, Cooper or Matt Connor he was a player i rated very highly.

When you talk about greats its really a matter of how narrow or broad a definition you give the word great. I personally think it has to be a very narrow range of players who can even be considered to be great.

Mc Donalds style of play was definately unique. He always seemed to have a lot of time on the ball. He would often get a ball and take a few steps back before making his pass in a style not too different to a quarter back in american football. He kick passing with the outside of his foot was exceptional.
Report DarkRosaleen August 25, 2011 12:46 AM BST
Still no answer to why he is called the Gooch.Does no one know?
Report worple12 August 25, 2011 11:18 AM BST
I'm fascinated by this concept of kicking with the outside of the foot.How does it work?
Report neill d August 25, 2011 11:25 AM BST
Its difficulty is overstated, Armagh half backs were doing it for years letting it into Clarke and McDonnell diagonally with the outside of the boot, its just they weren't so inclined to run their hands through their hair or dwell/ hop/ solo the ball for 10 seconds before releasing so noone really noticed. I've even thrown over a few myself with the outside of the boot, but none from outside the 21 yard line.
Report neill d August 25, 2011 11:28 AM BST
Darren O'Sullivan hit a few pearlers with the outside of the boot to Gooch there on Sunday, one of the great long distance kickers in the modern game is Darren. Francie Bellew is also very potent with the outside of the boot at club level as well I gather.
Report Tony Fenton August 25, 2011 11:31 AM BST
Cooper a brilliant player, definitely in the top 10 Kerry players of all time.

Hard to believe paddletoe hasnt mentioned Frank McGuigan yet.
Report Slabster August 25, 2011 12:29 PM BST
Paddletoe, to be the best forward of all time does not necessarily make one the best footballer of all time. I don't know if I'd call Gooch a better footballer than Tomás Ó Sé or Seamus Moynihan.

Reve, as a fellow Wexfordian I'd sooner have Red Barry in my team than Mattie Forde.
Report kavvie August 25, 2011 12:42 PM BST
tony would you please tell us the 9 better kerry players than gooch please?id be intrested to know!!
Report Tony Fenton August 25, 2011 1:23 PM BST
Hard to know where to start tk.

The 6 named below were on the team of the millenium.

    * Dan O'Keefe (goalkeeper)
    * Joe Keohane (full-back)
    * Seán Murphy (right half-back)
    * Mick O'Connell (midfielder)
    * Pat Spillane (left half-forward)
    * Mikey Sheehy (right corner-forward)

Maurice Fitz, Paidi, Dara, John Egan.

Cooper is very good agreed.
Report Tony Fenton August 25, 2011 1:23 PM BST
Apologies, millennium.
Report Tony Fenton August 25, 2011 1:25 PM BST
Further, Ger Power and Denis Moran each won 8 AI medals. They would be regarded as top top Kerry footballers.

I have excluded Vincent Murphy as he didnt make the breakthrough for Kerry at intercounty level.
Report The Bhoys August 25, 2011 1:31 PM BST
i have to say Brogan is a class act but theres a kid plays for armagh Jamie Clarke another rare talent like the gooch who can kick with both feet!
Report kavvie August 25, 2011 2:50 PM BST
i suppose there sort of threads are futile as peole have diff opinions and its not possible to change them.im sticking with the gooch as the best ever tho!!
Report SoYouThink August 25, 2011 11:04 PM BST
1. Colm Cooper
2. Maurice Fitzgerald
3. Ciaran McDonald
Report SoYouThink August 25, 2011 11:18 PM BST
Best "all-rounder" - Graham Geraghty.
Report squigs August 26, 2011 12:12 AM BST
I would have had Darragh O'Se and Moynihan as the best Kerry players of the last 15 years.
Report Kelly August 26, 2011 1:16 AM BST
Although the thread is about a ( scoring presumably ) forward , lots of other players feature on posts .

If you are six foot four (plus ) , can jump , can run , can kick a ball , can catch a ball , you are going to be very hard to mark . Donaghy fits all of these criteria , Kerry would not have won as much in recent years minus his input .

Eoin Liston was a huge influence on Kerry's all time winning team  , apart from his own scoring exploits ( vital goals a la John Egan ) it took 2 to mark him which left others free to roam . In simple mathematical terms that doubles his input to the team performance .

Jacko remains the best all-round footballer I have seen over the years , particularly in relation to athleticism , versatility , and longevity , and he was the best all-round player on the best team of all-time .   Occasionally he had a quiet match , but if you examined the reason it was because the oppositions best player(s) were marking him .  Left acres of space for his team mates , and most of the Kerry lads are natural runners so its bonanza time !

Anthony Tohill was another in that category , and he was taller than Jacko and a superb dead ball kicker to boot . Very hard to mark . As was Brian Mullins .

Best natural forward we ever had in Down was Sean O'Neill , quickest thinker on the football field I ever encountered , if you were in the right place at the right time he parted to you .  But he did make the team of the century ! As did Jacko , did he not ?
Report The Bhoys August 26, 2011 1:25 AM BST
Eoin Mulligan
Report neill d August 26, 2011 3:41 AM BST
eoin Mulliagan, jesus wept,

Donaghy a tremendous shot

Geraghty is the prototype footballer, embarrassing noone mentioned him up to now, put him on Mcdoinald, both in their prime, I know ****g well what would happen anyway

Harsh you may say, but greatness, tis an exacting standard, mcDonald has never shown anything to me that he could cope with an athlete/footballer like Geraghty, Scoring 10 points in Connaught is small beans, what did Brolly say about great players looking even better in Croke Park, never seen it from Ciaran I'm afraid, d quarterback, he can carry away, just don't anyone say he ever was able to carry em when it came to the crunch, people may say, that's unfair, he's from Mayo, well, that's GAA baby. John Galvin has carried limerik for years, and out of mcDonald and Galvin, i know which onr Kerry would take.
Report squigs August 26, 2011 8:00 AM BST
Geraghty was a good footballer and fabulous athlete but I don't think he was the best player on that Meath team, always thought Trevor Giles was a better player.
Report Deplasterer August 26, 2011 9:29 AM BST
Barney Rock was a great player I remember in my youth, mind you, most of that Dublin team were too.
Report thegalwayman August 26, 2011 11:12 AM BST
I'm going to regret posting in this nonsense thread again, but McDonald was one of the few Mayo footballers who seemed to thrive in Croke Park.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEjudiKrh_A&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkGR5_gT_L4&NR=1

Connacht football was a lot stronger when McDonald was in his pomp, with Mayo regulars in finals and Galway winning All Irelands.

Graham Geraghty was a decent player, but I agree with the man who said Giles was better. Unfortunately Geraghty was also a thug.
Report DarkRosaleen August 26, 2011 1:00 PM BST
Still no answer to how he got the nickname Gooch and what does it mean?
Report freddiek August 26, 2011 1:27 PM BST
geraghty was probably one of the best pure athletes to play gaelic

half-back line, half-forward line, full-forward, he played in all positions and excelled. I would place him above Giles for that reason, Trevor was a very fine footballer himself

DR - The Gooch thing as i understand it is something to do with a doll that was popular during Cooper's youth (in Kerry anyway) and some people involved in his club when he was a young lad thought he resembled this doll, hence the name stuck
Report DarkRosaleen August 26, 2011 1:32 PM BST
Thank you Freddiek.
Report neill d August 26, 2011 1:49 PM BST
Giles stayed around too long at intercounty imo.
Report neill d August 26, 2011 1:57 PM BST
The first point really highlights his athleticism galwayman, I've seenStephen O'Neill score from more impossible angles as well though.

The pure striking of the football in the second clip is unbelievable.

It is coming accross here that I don't like Ciaran McDonald, that is not the case, I rate him very, very highly, just not as a great.

One could make a very strong case that he is the best pure striker of a football ever though.

The only players playing the game today that I would consider greats are Tomas O'Se, Cooper, Declan O'Sullivan and Sean Cavanagh.

Did McDonald ever win footballer of the year?, I don't know if he did or not, but surely that is a prerequisite for greatness, someone is gonna mention darragh O'Se now.
Report thegalwayman August 26, 2011 2:28 PM BST
The first clip was in response to your point about great players looking better in Croke Park. That was an outstanding score to put his team a point up with 2 minutes left in an All Ireland semi final. Plenty of men went missing on the big day in Croke Park but McDonald was never one of them.
Report neill d August 26, 2011 2:44 PM BST
As I said I've always enjoyed him, I'll definitely admit that the power in his stride in the first clip was a lot greater than I remembered, maybe he was the type of player that I would appreciate more now than when he was around, my focus was very Kerry/Tyrone centric when mcdonald was in his pomp, it was that first score that really impressed me, I'd have been younger I suppose when he was in his pomp, so was probably not in the best position to judge him, it is just that when one applies the usual criteria, he wouldn't be the most obvious footballer out of that era, but maybe you are right and he is a great, if his games show up on All ireland Gold, I'll tape them and have a look some evening, better than the **** that is on television most nights anyway.

I don't mean to denigrate the guy either with what I've said, I apologise if it has come accross that way, as my good friend Rocketfingers has pointed out, my comments can be a little rash and illthought at times.
Report neill d August 26, 2011 2:47 PM BST
I think also, from playing the game, I often played in the full forward line, it used to drive me mad if the ball wasn't delivered early, I may have built up a perception of him in my head which wasn't neccessarily correct.

I'm certain I did not think he was capable of covering the ground he did for that first score, it was reminiscent of the goals ronaldo got in the Champions league against Arsenal a few years ago, sheer power, rooney did something similar against them as well if I recall correctly, sheer power.
Report neill d August 26, 2011 2:48 PM BST
*covering the ground at that pace.
Report squigs August 26, 2011 4:49 PM BST
Giles stayed around too long at intercounty imo.

Geraghty surely has done the same by coming back this season :)
Report neill d August 26, 2011 5:55 PM BST
Yeah, that is fair
Report SoYouThink August 27, 2011 3:59 PM BST
Trevor Giles was the original quarterback - don't think he stayed around intercounty too long either. He was instrumental in Skyrne winning the Meath SFC last year - six years after his intercounty retirement. Retired at 30 which would be young for a player who had the career of Giles. I think it was the 1998 Leinster Final when he went up for a ball and landed on his back - that was a bad injury and it was testament to him that the was able to come back better than ever in 1999 and 2001.

Geraghty is a phenomenal athlete too but he was more than just an athlete, an incredibly natural Gaelic Footballer. To be still making a championship appearance at aged 39 says it all really - a 20 year intercounty career! One of the rare sportspeople who could carve out a career in anything. A brilliant sportsperson. For what's it worth, I would regard Giles as the better footballer.

McDonald was a unique talent. Realistically, the only player who compares is Maurice Fitz. Everything the two of them did, they did it with such elegance and grace. Really, really brilliant to watch the two. Of course, Maurice could kick with the left and kick with the right, whereas Ciaran Mc relied heavily on his left but it rarely, if ever, proved a problem for him.
Report SoYouThink August 27, 2011 4:08 PM BST
Graham Geraghty was a decent player, but I agree with the man who said Giles was better. Unfortunately Geraghty was also a thug.

A thug or just a bit of a messer?

He knew where the line was and only once crossed it - verus Kildare in the first replay in 1997 where he was sent off for the one and only time in his championship career, very harshly too.

Think he earned the bad-boy image after the comment in Australia, and then there were rumours and false newspaper reports. After that, he played the part well. Incidents with Eammon Barry in 2006, David Henry in 2007, Stephen Shepherd in 2007.

The only time he went too far was the time he got the 48 week suspension for verbal abuse of a referee in Meath.
Report G Hall August 27, 2011 11:01 PM BST
YES
Report Vegasjim September 12, 2011 8:42 PM BST
i feel that when u talk about geniuses like gooch,maurice fitz,canavan etc.it boils down to personal preference .my favourite player was canavan and by a long way.GOOCH ISNT finished yet and could maybe rival him in the future.in the last 20 years nobody else was at a level these guys operated at.mcdonald,giles,mulligan ? r u having a laugh.these players are a couple of levels below these 3 gods and they would probably tell u that if u asked them
Report onehundredK September 13, 2011 6:10 PM BST
impossible to measure players across generations...........in their time the likes of Matt Connor and Mike Sheehy were every bit as good Id say......Connor was phenomenal, a scoring machine
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