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On the weight for age, 12 pounds at this time of the year is way too much, there is no incentive for top older horses to stay in training when it is like this. Horses are bred more precocious anyway these days. Nathaniel was forward enough to push Frankel all the way in his maiden ffs, he is a big horse well able to carry weight.
It is mad to think that in STS's Arc, Youmzain came out the best horse at the weights, lets make these 3yo's earn it. |
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So it`s that first Sussex you mean? I had a look again and to be fair he won well but there was nothing WOW about it imho. A WOW Sussex was watching Kinane motionless on ROG in `02.
He never got me excited probably because he passed the post 1st only 4 times in 14 runs. As for the weight for age scale. He`s the 1st 3yo to win it in 8 years! I think that says it all about your argument. If it was too much then why so long between 3yo victories? |
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Don't think tht many try tbh, the eclipse is a much sexier target due to it being at the more commercially viable distance of 1m2f, I seem to remember last year that people were remarking at what a great thing it was to see 3yo's in Cape Blanco and Workforce contest the race.
I just think that with the way horses are being bred these days, the weight for age has become a little archaic, and is in place to serve the breeding industry rather than the public. 12 pounds is too much imo, some allowance is acceptable, but atm, it is disincentivising keeping Derby and Guineas winners in training. There was no way Chris Tsoi was going to ever let STS give 12 pounds to the likes of Workforce in a King George. |
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try these days*
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I'd accept your view with regard to the Rip, FWIW, I thought his Eclipse performance against STS was his best. He actually looked like he might take him for a few strides, Conduit was miles back (inadaquete trip I know) along with the decent Cima de Triomphe. Still one of my favourite races.
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2006 - no 3 year old ran
2007 - no 3 year old ran 2008 - no 3 year old ran 2009 - Alwaary 4th @ 12/1, Golden Sword 5th @ 9/2, Rockhampton 8th @ any price ye wanted 2010 - Cape Blanco 2nd @ 9/2, Workforce 5th @ 8/11 that is since Azamour in 2005 |
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i think that is correct
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There are a number of people remarking also on how difficultit is going to be for Canford to give 8 pounds to Frankel.
I think that when it gets to a situation like this, between two great horses, where weight may become decisive in what should be in theory, a level weights race. We know the weight for age scale is wrong. Frankel is basically fully developed imo, if anything Canford is the one who looks leggy. |
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It ain't a sexy race breeding wise.
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Cheers for the stats Sat, I probably shouldn't be so dogmatic on it Giant, because I know fack all about the physical development of horses really, but if it might help keep the good ones in training, I'm all for it. 2000 Guineas winners in particular never seem to hang around long. The only reason we still have Workforce is his sire.
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Very true neill. I don`t disagree with you and it probably will decrease in time, but I have to bow to the those who know about a horses development. Basically, accept that it is a fair scale and work around it.
You can construe pfs stats in more ways than one. My take is that despite the 12lbs, top trainers feel they still need a very mature 3yo to even attempt to win the race. And even then there is the possibility of a notoriously tough race bottoming the animal also. Therefore, I think the scale is about right for a younger horse. Going back to RVW. His Eclipse run was excellent and he was very unfortunate to be born at the same time as a Champion. |
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Totally reasonable point of view Giant, at least with the economy the way it is, there seem to be more staying in anyway.
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a very good thread lads ..just a thought on wfa neill d....its been working ever since rous put it into practice ..thats not yesterday either...but valid points on both sides ..was thinking of heading to goodwood for that clash , as i dont like flying i have decided against it as it takes to long by boat and rail....but what a match to savior ....
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