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Only 5 runners, but promises to be a cracker. All the money has been for Workforce & his group 1 form is for all to see. Did disapoint in this race 12 months ago however, and at 6-4, although a worthy fav, bit skinny for me.
St Nic, has been showing the form this year that made him top rated 2 year old. Drifting like a barge all week & can't believe that's all down to young Joe getting the ride.
Nathaniel, highly progressive, but need a leap of faith to go against the proven group 1 winners in the field.
Leaves me with my idea of the winner, Rewilding. Hopefully, pacemaker can do a good job for him & though would like a drop of rain for him, liked the way he outstayed Ballydoyles Aussie wonder horse last time out, has course form to boot & frankie has agreat record on this race.
4 pts win.
Good luck, with whoever you back.
Took it out of me that post, i'm off for a pint.
St Nic, has been showing the form this year that made him top rated 2 year old. Drifting like a barge all week & can't believe that's all down to young Joe getting the ride.
Nathaniel, highly progressive, but need a leap of faith to go against the proven group 1 winners in the field.
Leaves me with my idea of the winner, Rewilding. Hopefully, pacemaker can do a good job for him & though would like a drop of rain for him, liked the way he outstayed Ballydoyles Aussie wonder horse last time out, has course form to boot & frankie has agreat record on this race.
4 pts win.
Good luck, with whoever you back.
Took it out of me that post, i'm off for a pint.
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Hopefully Deplasterer, you will get back onda workforce and not be so tired after so little. workforce nap
Needs a career best to win it mate but no doubt whatsoever that he's got the talent and ability.
Can't forget last year unfortunately Jay, but could well have been just an off day, as the Arc win was tremendous. All will be revealed 2mor.
I would agree, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if he won, I have never been and never will be a Workforce fan, despite backing him on debut at Goodwood as a 2yo. He won a poor Derby and I don't think the Arc was a vintage renewal either tbh.
I would back Rewilding except for the fact that I'm worried he won't be fresh enough, he is very light framed and I just hope that the 6 weeks is enough, Bin Suroor has a rep for overtraining, but I don't think Al Zarooni is like that but still, he could blow out. Ithink, at his best, he has probably improved past Workforce.
St Nick, I'd guess is probably the most innately talented of these individuals, I wouldn't say any of the others would finish 6th in a Guineas, or win a RP trophy like he did. I had him down as a speed horse then, but it is clear from epsom and chester that he is a stayer now. These Ballydoyle hype horses usually put up one performance in their career that leave one thinking, "Wow", he is almost as good as they were saying, I'm talking yer Hawkwings, yer RVWs. I think tomorrow could be the day we see it from this guy, but, as I say, the 11/4 worries me a lot with the tipperary crowd.
If they are all at their best, I think rewilding will win, but it is definitely a no bet race for me.
I would back Rewilding except for the fact that I'm worried he won't be fresh enough, he is very light framed and I just hope that the 6 weeks is enough, Bin Suroor has a rep for overtraining, but I don't think Al Zarooni is like that but still, he could blow out. Ithink, at his best, he has probably improved past Workforce.
St Nick, I'd guess is probably the most innately talented of these individuals, I wouldn't say any of the others would finish 6th in a Guineas, or win a RP trophy like he did. I had him down as a speed horse then, but it is clear from epsom and chester that he is a stayer now. These Ballydoyle hype horses usually put up one performance in their career that leave one thinking, "Wow", he is almost as good as they were saying, I'm talking yer Hawkwings, yer RVWs. I think tomorrow could be the day we see it from this guy, but, as I say, the 11/4 worries me a lot with the tipperary crowd.
If they are all at their best, I think rewilding will win, but it is definitely a no bet race for me.
Completely agree with what you say there neill d, excellent analysis!
I have a bit of a soft spot for him truth be told, if we are to onearth a star tomorrow it is him imo.
I just get the feeling that Rewilding is somewhat overrated....beat So YOU Think when SYT was given a queally ride by the great Ryan Moore...a shocker............SNA has his future well secured so its ok to put the young lad up.....JPoB has improved but not up to this imho at this stage of his career....a tough ask of him.....cute stoutey didn't need to take on SYT last time out but with the close relationship between the two stables (owner/s tabor etc), it was important for SYT to beat something solid hence workforce...10f defeat wouldn't damage WF too much.....imho it is just possible that stoutey used the last run to condition workforce for 2moro with tomorrow his day.....and tomorrow will be his day!!!
i find myself agreeing with you once again jay.. a lovely little insight into the race .....
Going around in circles with this one.
Nathaniel is no slouch in this ground. But I backed him on debut V FRANKEL
and have left him since.
He looks the value getting 12lb if the ground is on the soft side. His last time was 3-4 secs faster than Banimpires and Await The Dawns over c&d. All 3 were run on different days but on ground described as Soft. I`ve won on the other 3 in the past but I`ll have to take the hint today.
There`s very good reasons to back or lay all four.
Potentially brilliant race. Lets hope it lives up to that.
Good luck all!
Nathaniel is no slouch in this ground. But I backed him on debut V FRANKEL
and have left him since. He looks the value getting 12lb if the ground is on the soft side. His last time was 3-4 secs faster than Banimpires and Await The Dawns over c&d. All 3 were run on different days but on ground described as Soft. I`ve won on the other 3 in the past but I`ll have to take the hint today.
There`s very good reasons to back or lay all four.
Potentially brilliant race. Lets hope it lives up to that.
Good luck all!
Took the 4/1 Rewilding with laddies this morning, the horse has not got the credit for beating So You Think over an inadequate 1m 2f in my opinion. He looks a much improved performer from what we have seen this year and i can see him running them down late on. I'm obviously worried that the run may come too quick for a horse who is best fresh but at the prices he looks the best value to me.
St Nicholas Abbey has beat Allied Powers by 9L at Chester and Midday (who has since been stuffed by Misty For Me at the Curragh) by 1L at Epsom. I don't think his form warrants being anyway close to the 2 market leaders. He may win but he won't be winning with any of my €€€ on him.
Workforce looks the obvious one but he ran way below form in this race last year so that leaves a doubt in my mind. I think he is short enough.
Nathaniel was a very good winner of the King Edward but will have to improve greatly again if he is too take this. Horses who won the King Edward hardly have a great record in this either.
I'm happy with the 4/1 Rewilding, unless he is not over the Prince Of Wales i can't see him not being thereabouts
St Nicholas Abbey has beat Allied Powers by 9L at Chester and Midday (who has since been stuffed by Misty For Me at the Curragh) by 1L at Epsom. I don't think his form warrants being anyway close to the 2 market leaders. He may win but he won't be winning with any of my €€€ on him.
Workforce looks the obvious one but he ran way below form in this race last year so that leaves a doubt in my mind. I think he is short enough.
Nathaniel was a very good winner of the King Edward but will have to improve greatly again if he is too take this. Horses who won the King Edward hardly have a great record in this either.
I'm happy with the 4/1 Rewilding, unless he is not over the Prince Of Wales i can't see him not being thereabouts
Oh and I forgot to mantion, daddy beat Fantastic Light 10 years ago today. 
Something had to win it.....awful what happened to Rewilding....but godawfuldolphin messed up with siily pacemaker tactics....JPoB was found out and gave the 1st and second first run....and dear me what can you say about Ryan Moore.....not nearly as good as he thinks another shosker after getting So You Think beat......probably lost 5-6 lengths......a race to forget for many reasons......as the man said thats horse racing for you
How can you blame Moore for Workforce deciding to hang across the track?
It was a thoroughly unsatisfactory race from all viewpoints. Sad to see Rewilding break down
, Young Joseph was exposed and gave St Nick a shocker (not sure it would have won anyway). Then you have Workforce spoiling his chance and Nathaniel running out the winner. Very disappointing race.
It was a thoroughly unsatisfactory race from all viewpoints. Sad to see Rewilding break down
, Young Joseph was exposed and gave St Nick a shocker (not sure it would have won anyway). Then you have Workforce spoiling his chance and Nathaniel running out the winner. Very disappointing race.
How can you be sure Godolphin messed up with pacemaker tactics? It may have worked perfectly had poor Rewilding not gone wrong, i didn't think he was going to win in running but we'll never know unfortunately. very sad what happened
very sad what happened
Another excuse for Moore workforce hurt and SYT wasn't properly trained when eclipsed at Royal Ascot ...... a completely overrated jockey and King Kieran is still the best around .....witness Hoof It and shrewd Easterby knew it
"Something had to win it" 
Yeah, the one who runs straighter and faster than the others, ie. the best horse!
Cheers for the well done lads btw. I suppose I had to get something right sometime.
Yeah, the one who runs straighter and faster than the others, ie. the best horse!
Cheers for the well done lads btw. I suppose I had to get something right sometime.
OK Giant well done at least you stayed loyal and got your reward.....hope you got plenty for galway and goodwood....
And I thought i was the only bitter c##t on here Jay!
well done Giant, didn't realise you tipped him, great performance from a horse stepping up in grade, awful sad what ahppened to Rewilding though
Appreciated pf. Turned a bit of a corner recently but still didn`t go overboard. Just €40 at 7s in Ladbrokes. I genuinely thought it was too big. Connections didn`t pay 70k on Monday to have a look.
Really liked Rewilding. Won me plenty and he had a lot more big prizes in him. Real shame.
Really liked Rewilding. Won me plenty and he had a lot more big prizes in him. Real shame.
good stuff mate, hope ye keep firing them in 
, better head off to bed ment to be on the course tomorrow morning 
, better head off to bed ment to be on the course tomorrow morning
Here`s hoping for more of the same weather so.Night boss.
Unfortunate what happened during race, but best horse won Imo, wd GS.
I was in Ascot yesterday gents - extraordinary race for many reasons!
Well done Giant my friend!
Well done Giant my friend!
Cheers Dep. Very strange race. And even stranger comment...
St Nicholas Abbey, who had been friendless in the market finished back in third and his trainer Aidan O'Brien said: "He's run a lovely race, they've gone a steady pace but we're making no excuses."
No excuses from Ballydoyle!
St Nicholas Abbey, who had been friendless in the market finished back in third and his trainer Aidan O'Brien said: "He's run a lovely race, they've gone a steady pace but we're making no excuses."
No excuses from Ballydoyle!
Only noticing that now sof. Cheers.
Another Galileo, so everyone`s a winner!
Another Galileo, so everyone`s a winner!
I thought Wiltshire said there was a 45k sterling bet on St. Nik at 10/3.....does that mean friendless ?...........
Watch the 09 Sussex, the 09' Eclipse looks pretty good in hindsight too, he even gave Canford a much better fight than Goldikova giving 8 pounds weight for age in the 10' Sussex, but the 09 Sussex was the race when it all came together imo, His pacemaker could barely lead him for a furlong he went off that quick. I know the Paco Boy camp were making injury excuses afterward, but there are always excuses from the Hannons when one of their good horses is beaten.
I wasn't too dissapointed with St Nick, I'd say form wise it was a step forward even, don't think he got the absolute best of rides either and the slow gallop wouldn't have suited.
I wasn't too dissapointed with St Nick, I'd say form wise it was a step forward even, don't think he got the absolute best of rides either and the slow gallop wouldn't have suited.
On the weight for age, 12 pounds at this time of the year is way too much, there is no incentive for top older horses to stay in training when it is like this. Horses are bred more precocious anyway these days. Nathaniel was forward enough to push Frankel all the way in his maiden ffs, he is a big horse well able to carry weight.
It is mad to think that in STS's Arc, Youmzain came out the best horse at the weights, lets make these 3yo's earn it.
It is mad to think that in STS's Arc, Youmzain came out the best horse at the weights, lets make these 3yo's earn it.
So it`s that first Sussex you mean? I had a look again and to be fair he won well but there was nothing WOW about it imho. A WOW Sussex was watching Kinane motionless on ROG in `02.
He never got me excited probably because he passed the post 1st only 4 times in 14 runs.
As for the weight for age scale. He`s the 1st 3yo to win it in 8 years!
I think that says it all about your argument. If it was too much then why so long between 3yo victories?
He never got me excited probably because he passed the post 1st only 4 times in 14 runs.
As for the weight for age scale. He`s the 1st 3yo to win it in 8 years!
I think that says it all about your argument. If it was too much then why so long between 3yo victories?
Don't think tht many try tbh, the eclipse is a much sexier target due to it being at the more commercially viable distance of 1m2f, I seem to remember last year that people were remarking at what a great thing it was to see 3yo's in Cape Blanco and Workforce contest the race.
I just think that with the way horses are being bred these days, the weight for age has become a little archaic, and is in place to serve the breeding industry rather than the public. 12 pounds is too much imo, some allowance is acceptable, but atm, it is disincentivising keeping Derby and Guineas winners in training.
There was no way Chris Tsoi was going to ever let STS give 12 pounds to the likes of Workforce in a King George.
I just think that with the way horses are being bred these days, the weight for age has become a little archaic, and is in place to serve the breeding industry rather than the public. 12 pounds is too much imo, some allowance is acceptable, but atm, it is disincentivising keeping Derby and Guineas winners in training.
There was no way Chris Tsoi was going to ever let STS give 12 pounds to the likes of Workforce in a King George.
I'd accept your view with regard to the Rip, FWIW, I thought his Eclipse performance against STS was his best. He actually looked like he might take him for a few strides, Conduit was miles back (inadaquete trip I know) along with the decent Cima de Triomphe. Still one of my favourite races.
2006 - no 3 year old ran
2007 - no 3 year old ran
2008 - no 3 year old ran
2009 - Alwaary 4th @ 12/1, Golden Sword 5th @ 9/2, Rockhampton 8th @ any price ye wanted
2010 - Cape Blanco 2nd @ 9/2, Workforce 5th @ 8/11
that is since Azamour in 2005
2007 - no 3 year old ran
2008 - no 3 year old ran
2009 - Alwaary 4th @ 12/1, Golden Sword 5th @ 9/2, Rockhampton 8th @ any price ye wanted
2010 - Cape Blanco 2nd @ 9/2, Workforce 5th @ 8/11
that is since Azamour in 2005
There are a number of people remarking also on how difficultit is going to be for Canford to give 8 pounds to Frankel.
I think that when it gets to a situation like this, between two great horses, where weight may become decisive in what should be in theory, a level weights race. We know the weight for age scale is wrong. Frankel is basically fully developed imo, if anything Canford is the one who looks leggy.
I think that when it gets to a situation like this, between two great horses, where weight may become decisive in what should be in theory, a level weights race. We know the weight for age scale is wrong. Frankel is basically fully developed imo, if anything Canford is the one who looks leggy.
Cheers for the stats Sat, I probably shouldn't be so dogmatic on it Giant, because I know fack all about the physical development of horses really, but if it might help keep the good ones in training, I'm all for it. 2000 Guineas winners in particular never seem to hang around long. The only reason we still have Workforce is his sire.
Very true neill. I don`t disagree with you and it probably will decrease in time, but I have to bow to the those who know about a horses development. Basically, accept that it is a fair scale and work around it.
You can construe pfs stats in more ways than one. My take is that despite the 12lbs, top trainers feel they still need a very mature 3yo to even attempt to win the race. And even then there is the possibility of a notoriously tough race bottoming the animal also. Therefore, I think the scale is about right for a younger horse.
Going back to RVW. His Eclipse run was excellent and he was very unfortunate to be born at the same time as a Champion.
You can construe pfs stats in more ways than one. My take is that despite the 12lbs, top trainers feel they still need a very mature 3yo to even attempt to win the race. And even then there is the possibility of a notoriously tough race bottoming the animal also. Therefore, I think the scale is about right for a younger horse.
Going back to RVW. His Eclipse run was excellent and he was very unfortunate to be born at the same time as a Champion.
Totally reasonable point of view Giant, at least with the economy the way it is, there seem to be more staying in anyway.
a very good thread lads ..just a thought on wfa neill d....its been working ever since rous put it into practice ..thats not yesterday either...but valid points on both sides ..was thinking of heading to goodwood for that clash , as i dont like flying i have decided against it as it takes to long by boat and rail....but what a match to savior ....
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