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05 May 11 18:30
Date Joined: 26 Feb 04
| Topic/replies: 10,541 | Blogger: kavvie's blog
fair dues to you pat,but you against the wind....oh jaysus tom lee is going to solve it all now!!
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Report SatelliteFlight May 5, 2011 6:32 PM BST
Well done sir, said exactly what i say, if you don't trust your odds compier get facking rid and employ somebody who can do the job properly. It's even worse with greyhounds, they are farcial when it comes to laying greyhound bets.
Report downallstar May 5, 2011 6:34 PM BST
Delighted to see this debated on Rte!
Even if it was only for a few minutes.
Report playthegameboy May 5, 2011 6:34 PM BST
Got a nice bet on The Fly tomorrow! Legend LaughLaughLaugh
Report ilikewavingatbuses May 5, 2011 6:35 PM BST
yup. love it pat.
Report ko2 May 5, 2011 6:36 PM BST
he talked sense unlike the rest of them
Report ilikewavingatbuses May 5, 2011 6:37 PM BST
what firm do u think he was talkin about?Laugh
Report kavvie May 5, 2011 6:37 PM BST
the w hill guy was a disgrace talking in grands..i got knocked back a few yr ago with his firm for a ton ew at 6/1 one day..the crowd pat was on about was spoils i presume!!
Report Know Won Nose May 5, 2011 6:37 PM BST
Wonder why Hayley and Leon were not involved in the debate.
Report declan81 May 5, 2011 6:38 PM BST
which firm were they giving out about. boyle sports?
Report steeringjobnap May 5, 2011 6:42 PM BST
^ nap
Report donal May 5, 2011 7:39 PM BST
I'd say it was Ladbrokes!
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 5, 2011 7:44 PM BST
Agreed Donal.....the Examiner man is no small punter when he fancies one...very sharp 2 [;)]
Report kavvie May 5, 2011 7:50 PM BST
well id say it could be either.both are the lowest form of life...
Report observerirl May 5, 2011 8:05 PM BST
Well he came down in my estimation as he would not name and shame. Its simple really if you are going to appear on public tv and castigate a specific business process you name that firm. Simple really. I tried to have an each way bet on a 25/1 shot in a 3ml hcap hdl today with that PR FIRM called Paddy and I was allowed 10e on line and 10ewhen calling to see if it was all just a joke, Traders decision my arse all they want are compulsive gamblers and that IS A FACT
Report kavvie May 5, 2011 8:21 PM BST
pat works for a newspaper that depends to an extent on advertising.he couldnt name the firm as they might not advertise in the paper again.i think he said enough.most on here know its one of go 1/2 spoils,7/4 lads!!
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 5, 2011 8:27 PM BST
7/4 Lads I want some of that Kavvie...what % are u betting to....
Report marty44 May 5, 2011 8:28 PM BST
only caught half the interview but after saying he wouldn't name them , he said they're all the same anyway.No point in singling out one firm when they all operating with the same agenda.
Report kavvie May 5, 2011 8:31 PM BST
sure id favour spoils cause i was often left standing while calls were made..usually lads would just refuse you quicker!
Report soapp May 5, 2011 8:33 PM BST
Observer, Kavvie caught you out there! He has to mind his job! Laugh

Pity I missed the interview.

Laddys were thrown out of the Curragh last Monday for not taking any proper bets so I was told.
Paddys now have the shop there.
Report dj876 May 5, 2011 8:40 PM BST
if u want to see it go to rte player about 55 mins off programme-int.starts around 30 mns in
Report JayTrumpOldTomDubbl May 5, 2011 8:40 PM BST
Agree with you there Kavvie as I was havin a bet in Spoils and she had to phone someone 100 on an odds on shotLaughLaugh
Report fivetosix May 5, 2011 9:08 PM BST
in fairness to laddies i asked them for 200 at 15/8 mrs harringtons horse without the fav at the curragh on monday,their tipperary town branch the cashier referred the bet at i was offered 20 euro at 15/8 but it was done within 30 seconds  where the spoils leave u standind at the counter with customers listening as the cashier is being told how to refuse the bet no contest laddies refuse with style  spoils need to learn the great art
Report Blackwater May 5, 2011 9:21 PM BST
The sad thing is that PK's comments are seen as being somehow provocative.

The fact is we all know this is how the game works these days.
Report Cupwinkcook May 5, 2011 9:32 PM BST
he's talking about the magic sign, that's how they communicate, they wait for a reference number from a trader

Spoils call the trader

been knocked back by both
Report marty44 May 5, 2011 9:34 PM BST
think it was on network 2 so not on media player.Save the half hour I just spent looking!
Report observerirl May 5, 2011 9:36 PM BST
kavvie, i dont buy that argument at all. It's a pure cop out.He was appearing on national tv not writing for his employer. He is a journalist supposedly not a pr man and if he is to have any credibility he should tell the absolute truth. At this point in his life and career id say he has a nice pension/redundancy to look forward to if he upset anybody
Report steeringjobnap May 5, 2011 9:38 PM BST
he got his 1000/800

not going to upset the applecart the whole 9 yards [nap]
Report dj876 May 5, 2011 9:38 PM BST
marty watched the interview there,go to latest
Report dj876 May 5, 2011 9:42 PM BST
there is 2 55 min. programmes click it on to 30 mins,u don't hav to watch the lot
Report Bigwillystyle May 5, 2011 9:47 PM BST
Was in spoils in Naas today and wanted €200 e/w on Kaiser so Say at 12/1.  Now i knew i was never going to get it on but was offered €50 E/W.  A bunch of jokers.  Wouldnt mind but am on a bad run and it fell.
Report wildmanfromborneo May 5, 2011 10:04 PM BST
They all just want to be dole recycling offices waiting around for someone to get a lump sum,be it redundancy or compensation he will get on what he likes.
However they are licenced and this licence gives them rights as well as responsibilities,they should not be allowed engage in false advertising.Pricing a horse at 10/1 advertising the price and then not laying it is wrong and should be illegal.
Bigwillystyle you were in Naas why did you not go to Punchestown?
Report 3winnersandasecond May 5, 2011 10:11 PM BST
A tenner e/w was enough to shave 4 pts off a 16/1 shot tonight. Basically I'm fed up marking their cards for a fecking tenner...!
And you know what they could clean up if they got a small number of savvy traders with some balls....
Report observerirl May 5, 2011 10:17 PM BST
The greatest shame of all of course is their false concern for those with a gambling disease. If they know your weakness you can have whatever you like on a 20/1 shot. Remember the man from Offaly. Indeed they're not so shy when they have a millionaire compulsie gambler on their hands. shameless really mr poor
Report sinndar001 May 5, 2011 10:26 PM BST
Here's a strange one or I thought it was anyway. Went into Lads to have a 100 ew on Knock Stars @ 12's in Cork a while back. Ran docket thru the computer and then waited for a trader to allow the bet. 3 min(i'd say) later I was told I could have 100 win and 25 place. So I thought about it for about 3 mins, looked up oddschecker on the phone and eventually said no and walked away. My da was with me and I was saying it to him(while cursing at the same time) cos I had drove 20 miles to have the bet on, which is annoying. So I said we'll head down to another Lads the other side of the town and split the bet into two 50e/w. He was waiting 5 mins for the trader and so was I but both bets were laid. So tell me this wats the difference between 100 e/w and 2 bets of 50e/w. Wasting my ****g time is wat the difference is. Knock Stars finishing unplaced put the tin hat on it. I didn't think this was a bad e/w as the books call them. They just had her overpriced is all.
Report wildmanfromborneo May 5, 2011 10:29 PM BST
Observerirl..The man you mention lost 80 million the bulk of it on the racecourse and you are right he could have what he liked on.That facility was availed of by a well known corpulent pro punter with disastrous effects for the unfortunate Offaly man,he is actually from my own area of Tipperary.
Report da fallon factor May 5, 2011 10:30 PM BST
was talking about laddies NAP and what made it funnier were all the so called mugs standing behind him staring into the camera with their free laddies hats
Report dj876 May 5, 2011 10:40 PM BST
Do ladbrokes pay rte for their fairly regular slot??
Report Punter #1 May 5, 2011 10:41 PM BST
It was Paddy Sower and Hayley wasn't there because he already lambasted her in the Examiner a few months ago.
Report da fallon factor May 5, 2011 10:43 PM BST
Hayley was busy giving tips to  Laddies main clients who were being wined and dined today at punch
Report Punter #1 May 5, 2011 10:45 PM BST
What kind of tips?
Report da fallon factor May 5, 2011 10:46 PM BST
what did Pat have to say regarding Hayley
Report Punter #1 May 5, 2011 10:46 PM BST
Hang on, I will check it up.
Report dj876 May 5, 2011 10:47 PM BST
I know she wasn't there,it was a wh rep///that was the reason i asked it
Report da fallon factor May 5, 2011 10:49 PM BST
ridiculous having a WH rep on rte,they have no intrest whatsoever on the irish market and have closed a lot of shops here recently
Report Punter #1 May 5, 2011 10:50 PM BST
Thursday, May 5, 2011

Bookies refuse to lay in bed of own making

By Pat Keane

Saturday, November 06, 2010

HAVE a glance at this e-mail that I, along with many others, received from William Hill some days ago.

a d v e r t i s e m e n t

According to the company, David Yu’s first interview as chief executive of the betting exchange, Betfair, has revealed that his firm has a serious identity crisis.

Yu, they say, claims that Betfair is a bookmaker. According to William Hill: "Up to now that is an assertion that his company has angrily refuted, claiming instead to be just a simple technology platform. On that basis it has avoided paying around three times less in tax and levy than traditional UK bookmakers — like William Hill.

"The technology claim has enabled Betfair to pay tax and levy only on the commission it charges backers and layers operating through its UK exchange. It seems David Yu has now stopped believing his own propaganda."

Ralph Topping, William Hill’s chief executive, said: "The emergence of Betfair has distorted the UK betting market and led to very significant tax and levy leakage. The taxpayer and the racing industry have been the losers.

"Most expert observers believe that Betfair has many unidentified big layers on its platform paying no tax and no levy. It is ridiculous for Betfair to claim to be the injured party when in fact other operators, like William Hill, have had to go offshore in the face of a company which has gamed the system to secure a competitive advantage."

You know, I’m sure, there is plenty in what William Hill and Ralph Topping claim, but on reading their message the overwhelming feeling was one of sheer cynicism.

I mean, can you actually accuse the likes of William Hill and Ladbrokes of being so-called traditional UK bookmakers? Well, if traditional means they behave in England in the same manner as they do in Ireland then definitely. There’s "a serious identity crisis" all right.

In Ireland, all these firms are short of doing is putting up signs which say "only mugs wanted", or "thou shalt not win". Listen, essentially you can lump all of the off-course bookmakers in Ireland into the exact same box, except that one, two at a real push, are a bit more accommodating.

William Hill and the others are entitled to worry about the effect Betfair continues to have on their businesses.

But they don’t get it and are still failing to come to terms with the reasons why Betfair has attracted so many thousands of punters. And, indeed, why Betfair is likely to continue to grow and grow.

It’s quite simple, off-course bookmakers no longer offer a service which is acceptable to many punters.

If standing at a counter with the possibility of being kept waiting and, ultimately, humiliated is for you then you know where to go.

I could fill this column every week with stories of punters being knocked back when attempting to wager relatively small amounts.

The off-course layers don’t seem to realise that every time they refuse to take a bet they are driving that punter closer to opening a Betfair account.

The beauty of Betfair is that, on most occasions at least, you can have a proper lump on, free from the worry of being told to take your custom elsewhere.

That e-mail from William Hill is one of many racing correspondents receive every day from the off-course bookmakers’ PR agents.

They waffle on about this bet and that bet and for how much they have laid such and such a horse.

We take it all with the proverbial grain of salt. And then, of course, there is Ladbrokes’ Hayley O’Connor and her appearances on Attheraces.

She is repeatedly given an audience, but never asked a serious question. She’s merely doing her job, of course, and more power to her. Meanwhile, however, you have numerous viewers screaming at the television, "but Ladbrokes wouldn’t lay eggs".

LET me give you a personal example. On Sunday, October 24, Ladbrokes were going 7-4 on a horse called Dylan Ross in a bumper at Galway.

I wandered into their Midleton office in Co Cork as I wanted a decent few quid on and decided €600 would be a start and unlikely to raise the hare.

I handed the cash and the docket to the clerk, who began to play with his computer. Everything was going smoothly, until his head arched in my direction.

"You can only have €100 on," he said. I politely declined his kind offer and shuffled away. Yes, another possible Betfair candidate had just been born.

William Hill, Ladbrokes and the rest can behave as they like, sadly there is no legislation in place to force them to treat people properly.

But when the likes of William Hill think they should e-mail the press, questioning the behaviour of another organisation, then excuse me if I consign such utterings to the nearest bin.

This appeared in the printed version of the Irish Examiner Saturday, November 06, 2010

Read more:
Report da fallon factor May 5, 2011 10:51 PM BST
cheers punter1
Report da fallon factor May 5, 2011 10:57 PM BST
anybody know who these traders are that laddies and hills have in Ireland,i hear laddies main odds compiler in Ireland is female
Report dj876 May 5, 2011 11:00 PM BST
ridiculous having a WH rep on rte,they have no intrest whatsoever on the irish market and have closed a lot of shops here recently   
They were not going to bite the hand that feeds them.
Report squigs May 5, 2011 11:07 PM BST
It's quite unfair slagging someone on their job because they are female but yes the head of trading for Ladbrokes is female.
Report da fallon factor May 5, 2011 11:10 PM BST
i wasnt slagging anybody over their gender was just making a general comment
Report squigs May 5, 2011 11:15 PM BST
ok sorry I miss interpreted the point.
Report dinglemick May 5, 2011 11:17 PM BST
i wonder how many of those Ladbrokes clients wined and dined today are loosing with them ?????? ... i hear there is a well known footballer in the UK into them for over a million
Report observerirl May 5, 2011 11:21 PM BST
poors trader must be a pygmie so laying what appear to be huge bets althogh they are small in the scheme of things
Report observerirl May 5, 2011 11:22 PM BST
forget about the footballer what about the sheiks son
Report silvergreaser May 5, 2011 11:35 PM BST
So Keane wanted to have €600 on?, well talk about a big pink elephant walking into a betting shop!, these PLC's simply don't take that sort of money in shops anymore, and haven't done for years. Anyone that comes in wanting to have that sort of cash on will automatically set alarm bells ringing, putting all your eggs in one basket almost guarantees you to get knocked back, spread the bet around in non suspicious amounts in different shops, you'll probably get it all on without causing any suspicion, another thing is never bet with the same firm all the time, if you have a consistent winning run you are automatically logged as a dangerous customer and guaranteed to get knocked back eventually.
These are so obvious yet people still go in looking for hundreds on in the one shop?
Report sinndar001 May 5, 2011 11:43 PM BST
I like to find the bastard thats having 4 and 5grand bets on in the morning with willhill and ruining the price on everyone!!
Report observerirl May 5, 2011 11:48 PM BST
sinn,you know hans christian andersens fairytales, that where this mysterious punter resides
Report silvergreaser May 6, 2011 12:00 AM BST
All bookies have their VIP's sinndar, their cards are well and truely marked for them before the prices hit the shops, the shop punters are picking up the scraps.

Yet the bookies on course still have huge margins in their favour, supposedly its to protect them from insiders, that might have been true years ago where morning prices were thin on the ground and the internet betting was non existent, now they're aware of whats fancied before they even go to bed the night before.
Maybe Keane might mention that tomorrow if interviewed?.
The margins are not as bad as usual at Punchestown this week, tough still bloody awful, as there is strong markets through weight of money, but ordinary midweek fare has often seen margins tipping over the 170% mark, almost unheard of, only in Ireland could you get on-course margins as high as that.
Report lustrumm May 6, 2011 12:06 AM BST
Stunned that Keane is still on moaning about not being able to get on. Honestly the more this guy opens his mouth the less I think of him.
Report silvergreaser May 6, 2011 12:07 AM BST
Agree with observer that a lot of these so called bets are fantasy, but as always if you hold an important position and it makes economical sense or the information affords the luxury of ducking a certain horse these important people will of course be accomomadated.
Report observerirl May 6, 2011 12:07 AM BST
silver are you implying that vip customers(large successful punters) are getting good money on at early prices without being knocked
Report silvergreaser May 6, 2011 12:18 AM BST
Well lets just say they'd get a lot more on than most, of course they have limits, the horse is then ducked by the firm, so they'll take more on other horses in the race to balance their books, and lay off the bet with other bookmakers who are going bigger odds than they are.
Report sinndar001 May 6, 2011 12:25 AM BST

Just an example of the pain Ladbrokes go thru at times.
Report Punter #1 May 6, 2011 12:30 AM BST
It would make sense for firms to accomodate Keane as he is agood tipster and as evidenced by his interviews hears Ruby's view and Weld's given what he said about Waaheeb yesterday.
Report wixim May 6, 2011 1:00 AM BST
In fairness most of what PK said was spot on but it would appear Lustrumm has just about nailed this one .
Report scoobyknows May 6, 2011 7:42 AM BST
Pat Keane is a Gentleman of the highest order !
Report kavvie May 6, 2011 12:48 PM BST
lustrumm,is it lads or spoils you work for?how on earth could what pat keane said yesterday result in anyone thinking less of him?he spoke the truth and everyone  knows fact he didnt say half enough to be say hes moaning about not being able to get on?are you saying hes lying?..come on tell us why hes gone done in your intrested to know.can you also tell us why lads got ran out of the curragh last weekend?..maybe the curragh management have gone down in your estimation also!??!!?..
Report The Icchantika May 6, 2011 12:50 PM BST
If the reason Ladbrokes no longer operate the shop at the Curragh is that they were not laying enough hefty bets then I am Saint Hubert of Liege.
Report kavvie May 6, 2011 1:12 PM BST
tell us the reason so icchy?
Report Byerley_Racing May 6, 2011 2:04 PM BST
kavvie - laddies left the curragh as the curragh were looking for a penal % of turnover on top of a flat fee for their tenancy in the shop.
Report kavvie May 6, 2011 2:16 PM BST
fair enough gimme.i didnt know that.i was told different.obviously i was told wrong.epople like the more dramatic story i guess.
Report GANT007 May 6, 2011 2:29 PM BST
People love drama...........It's a bit like the story of how Pa Power pulled out of the sponsorship for the greyhound derby........the manager of punchestown racecourse gave ladbrokes the shop and pp got the hump.............all bul*sh*t of course.
Report Byerley_Racing May 6, 2011 2:36 PM BST
Gant people do love drama but I wouldnt be so quick to call bull on the story you mention.
Report wildmanfromborneo May 6, 2011 10:14 PM BST
GANT007..Unlike you to get a story wrong but Paddy Power swore vengeance after the Punchestown debacle.Punchestown did a covert deal with Ladbrooks over the betting shop and never told Powers,both sets of staff turned up and there was a stand off,Powers were in situ and refused Ladbrooks access,the manager came down and got Powers to leave.Powers complaint was they never got a chance to match or better Ladbrooks offer so they declared war,the greyhound Derby was the first casualty.Ousting Ladbrooks from the Curragh is another manifestation of it,nothing to do with acceptance of bets.
Some years ago this happened the other way round at Leopardstown,Ladbrooks had the shop, Powers used influence to acquire the franchise leading to Ladbrooks abandoning their sponsorship.This caused Leopardstown some hardship as what was the old Sweeps Hurdle had no sponsor indeed Jed Pearse personally put up the money one year after his firm hit stormy weather.
This row is bitter.
Report da fallon factor May 6, 2011 11:40 PM BST
yep true story that day the powers staff turned up to punchestown the racecourse had stopped the electricity in the shop to stop them from opening,the laddies staff were waiting in the wings
Report scoobyknows May 7, 2011 6:58 AM BST
Wildman Knows !
Report lustrumm May 7, 2011 9:08 AM BST
Anyone that deal with PPs on a professional capacity (i.e provides services to them or supplies them or does business with them knows all too well that they are terrible to deal with. They are ruthless and would leave you in the halfpenny place.
I have the height fro Punchestown and if they gaves Paddies the road there was a good reason for it. Punchestown is the nest run course in the Country by a mile great to do business with.

AS for Pat Keane I do not have an issue with him raising the fact that the morning price fiasco is nothing more than a ready up and a marketing tool for bookmakers but any professional to come on TV moaning he could not have €600 at 7/4 on a 4/5 shot or €300ew at 7/2 a 6/4 shot does not deserve to be laid. Bookmakers are not going to hand money over to you. I bet if "cool" Pat had got off his ass and tried to break his bets into 3 or stuck someone else in like everyone else does he would have been laid. Point I am making is grow up Pat you clown and give over your moaning because bookies will nor line your pockets. Get over it.

Finally I have to make a comment about the Totty at the races yesterday. What a day out. For an old perv like me it was lik dying and going to heaven. Never enjoyed a day so much despite not winning.

I work in IT by the way Kavvie not a bookmaker although one of the major firms were customers of ours until we fell out with them
Report lustrumm May 7, 2011 9:09 AM BST
height of respect for Punchestown that should have read in the second paragraph (apologies)
Report celticboy May 7, 2011 9:58 AM BST
lustrumm  -  if they considered it a 4/5 shot - they should have marked that up, not 7/4.

it is mind-boggling to think that an outfit with over 2000 shops would not stand a liability of 1050.

If one person walked into each of their shops and had 30p on - it would be the same thing  -  I just do not understand the business-thinking behind it.

I don't know about the Customer Care in your IT business  ..  but to expect your Customer to visit a number of your locations to avail of an offer that you have advertised publicly, mentioning nothing about conditions or limits,  ...  is disgraceful imo.
Report SatelliteFlight May 7, 2011 10:13 AM BST
lustrumm i find you're rant there quite amazing to be totally honest. Fair enough he maybe should know what they are like and try and get it on in smaller amounts but why the hell should he have too? They employ odds compilers to price up races and other events, these people are supposed to know what they are doing. If a horse is a 4/5 shot and their compiler made him a 7/4 shot it's time to ask is this man / women the right person for the job. Whats the point in them hiring people as odds compilers as they obviously do not believe they can do the job properly.
Report 3winnersandasecond May 7, 2011 10:15 AM BST
Joined: 22 Jan 10
Punchestown is the nest run course in the Country by a mile great to do business with.

Funniest comment I have read in a long time, the crowd out there couldn't run a bath...what an insult to some of the other racecourses in this country who actually care about their clients and customers....
Report lustrumm May 7, 2011 11:12 AM BST
I don't like criticising Keane as to be fair to him at least he tries to swim some way against the tide. Even our own Johnny W has gone native it would appear so any voice for ther plebs is to be creditted. But fair is fair. To come on live TV moaning why he cannot get on a rick when he is a known racing professional is pathetic. For Jaysus sake I could have told that would happen 20 years ago when Cashmans were in their pomp.
There is normally at least 5 meetings on a Sunday. That is 35 or so races and PAt moans that he cannot have a lump on the most uncompetitive race he can find after no doubt checking the price with every other firm and betfair before moving.
Ground control to Major Tom I say.

As for Punchy point taken. Perhaps I boiled over with the sight of all that flesh yesterday but I have to admit it was as good a session and a day out as I ever had and fair play to them. I would be more referring to the event organisers rather than the executive here
Report sinndar001 May 7, 2011 11:28 AM BST
Is it in the interest of the bookie to go a good price about the fav but not really want to lay it. U see it all the time on oddschecker. Bookies like sid james have happy hour where they push out the price of a fancied horse but will only lay it for a certain amount. For example they go 5's about a general 4/1 shot, People open an account to take the 5's as obviously its better than anywhere else. They're allowed 50 quid on it. Thats it. Sid James have got another potential customers/losers to open up an account by going a better price than anyone else. JOB DONE.

U see Matt Doyle on RUK all the time with SLYBETS knockout horse. Makes me wanna puke at times.
Report GANT007 May 7, 2011 12:46 PM BST
Widman........seems I got the story if Dick wasn't the head buck cat at punchestown they would have kept on the sponsorship of the greyhound derby.
Report wildmanfromborneo May 7, 2011 10:49 PM BST
They may have being reviewing their sponsorship anyway but they let everyone know that was the main reason for the termination of the sponsorship.
Report lustrumm May 8, 2011 12:53 AM BST
lets not anyone be crying for Paddies cos you can rest assured Paddies are not too worried about everyone else
Report GANT007 May 8, 2011 12:05 PM BST know well it was the easy way out and the anti IGB crew fell for the story.
Report kavvie May 8, 2011 5:05 PM BST
lustrumm i think your argument is quite frankly laughable.would you expect pat keane to drive around the county with 50s?...they got over 200 shops and they wouldnt stand to a liability of 1050?..its disgusting frankly.and then to see their "reps" coming on tv telling lies about what they laid and the sums involved?..does anyone seriously think they took 20000 sterling in an office in england?...and 10000 euro in ireland on same horse?..
Report ilikewavingatbuses May 8, 2011 5:14 PM BST
its a joke!! why should anyone have to go to several of the same shop to place bits and pieces in each in order to get their entire stake on. it shows exactly whats wrong with the firms and is laughable!
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