Irish Sports
Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
Empty vessels make most sound .
You have 2 ears and one mouth , act accordingly .
Nothing to bet on today being the day thats in it , so here is a bedtime thought or two .
Some of the regular posters on here seem to think they invented betting . Just a few facts .
Betting in the South of Ireland was in the halfpenny place for most of the last century . The real betting in Ireland for most of the last century was in the North . Part of that was due to punitive tax regimes , remember when Kilmarti*s were the benchmark ? In contrast the North was full of good bookies and good punters .
40,000 at a dog meeting ? Celtic Park in the thirties and forties , 150 bookies on the "outside" . ONE bookie I knew was 3k ahead after the first 3 races one night , a decent semi detached house in a good part of Belfast cost £500 then . That was betting , and he was only one of many standing .
Those doggie bookies ( they could not get licences to bet in the south -- neighbourly love ? --) went on to become part of the best betting area in the British Isles and until relatively recently a vibrant active set of bookmaking chains , independent . Virtually all gone now , leaving us largely with bean counters . Took the money and ran , cant blame them , bookies shops are a liability nowadays , Laddies please note . Shops are virtually empty now with a few exceptions , PP are trying at least .
Betfair changed everything , inevitable I suppose , could have come up with the idea myself , but sadly did not . Mind you a friend of mine was doing the equivalent of google in 1980 approx , look what he missed out on .
Betting / punting will continue to evolve , albeit in a different direction to the past . Initially the exchanges made it easier to back winners , follow the money system , but that does not apply to the same degree now in my opinion , and the bookies have upped their game , albeit I consider them to be accountants / bean counters rather than opinion backers as in the "good old days" .
Just wonder what it will be like in 20 years time ( should I survive that long ) .
You have 2 ears and one mouth , act accordingly .
Nothing to bet on today being the day thats in it , so here is a bedtime thought or two .
Some of the regular posters on here seem to think they invented betting . Just a few facts .
Betting in the South of Ireland was in the halfpenny place for most of the last century . The real betting in Ireland for most of the last century was in the North . Part of that was due to punitive tax regimes , remember when Kilmarti*s were the benchmark ? In contrast the North was full of good bookies and good punters .
40,000 at a dog meeting ? Celtic Park in the thirties and forties , 150 bookies on the "outside" . ONE bookie I knew was 3k ahead after the first 3 races one night , a decent semi detached house in a good part of Belfast cost £500 then . That was betting , and he was only one of many standing .
Those doggie bookies ( they could not get licences to bet in the south -- neighbourly love ? --) went on to become part of the best betting area in the British Isles and until relatively recently a vibrant active set of bookmaking chains , independent . Virtually all gone now , leaving us largely with bean counters . Took the money and ran , cant blame them , bookies shops are a liability nowadays , Laddies please note . Shops are virtually empty now with a few exceptions , PP are trying at least .
Betfair changed everything , inevitable I suppose , could have come up with the idea myself , but sadly did not . Mind you a friend of mine was doing the equivalent of google in 1980 approx , look what he missed out on .
Betting / punting will continue to evolve , albeit in a different direction to the past . Initially the exchanges made it easier to back winners , follow the money system , but that does not apply to the same degree now in my opinion , and the bookies have upped their game , albeit I consider them to be accountants / bean counters rather than opinion backers as in the "good old days" .
Just wonder what it will be like in 20 years time ( should I survive that long ) .
Show More
I am from Tipperary but have to agree with you about the North and gambling.Two of the biggest bookmakers in my fathers time were Jim Rice and Patsy McAlinden he put it down to ye having more money,he also used to say there cant be much discrimination up there all the Catholics he knew were all loaded.Later Pat OHare and Sean Graham led the ring but in my opinion the best bookmaker that ever lived was from Dungannon...Des Fox.I bet with him for years and i only saw him once lose his temper and on that occassion he was in the right,he laid monster bets and took the bad days in his stride he was also an out and out gentleman,i would not allow the present lot rinse out his cloth.
would terry rogers have been a major player down here wildman ... i remember terry taking some good bets , and in more recent times, donnelly the corkman would take a fair bet ..davy takes a good bet as well ...
des fox was laying 5 grand bets in dunmore park..a gentleman
never had much dealings with him myself tbh ..i remember him though and he did have a massive reputation ...i remember bankrolling a certain bookie who bet w/o fav ....i met a jockey i knew very well and asked him what were his chances in a certain race ..he told me he fancied his no end ..i went and told my bookie friend to be very careful what price he was going to lay this fellow at....as the race approached i went searching for a price about this horse and backed it at 5/1 ..i then scurried back to my mate only to see he had priced it up at 5/1 also ..but that was w/out the fav.. needless to say we got taken to the cleaners ..that was the end of that relationship...
Wildman , knew Patsy McAlinden via connections but he was a generation in front of me . One other you mention was a very good friend of mine , no names , no pack drill , and I knew ( about) Des Fox as he taught with friends of mine before he graduated from the dogs to the horses and full time bookie .
Not familiar with the Newry one but always had a good reputation .
The only catholics with decent money in the thirties and forties were publicans ,( poor/ unattractive hours ), fruit merchants ( long early hours etc ) and bookies ( illegal so not establishment friendly) , so the picture was probably a bit skewed to Southern observers who were racing / social people . Believe me , discrimination was relevant and was a big part of future developments we lived through .
One of my fathers friends was more or less a professional gambler , independent means . Went to the bank EACH morning , win or lose the day before , and took out £50 . To put that in perspective a friend of my uncles was a dual Irish international soccerite and was being paid £4 a week by Belfast Celtic . Best paid on the books he was at the time , and the McAlindens would have had a big say in the running of that club . The club was not known for its generosity to its players , but never knew the inner workings of it so could not attach blame to any one party or parties .
Not familiar with the Newry one but always had a good reputation .
The only catholics with decent money in the thirties and forties were publicans ,( poor/ unattractive hours ), fruit merchants ( long early hours etc ) and bookies ( illegal so not establishment friendly) , so the picture was probably a bit skewed to Southern observers who were racing / social people . Believe me , discrimination was relevant and was a big part of future developments we lived through .
One of my fathers friends was more or less a professional gambler , independent means . Went to the bank EACH morning , win or lose the day before , and took out £50 . To put that in perspective a friend of my uncles was a dual Irish international soccerite and was being paid £4 a week by Belfast Celtic . Best paid on the books he was at the time , and the McAlindens would have had a big say in the running of that club . The club was not known for its generosity to its players , but never knew the inner workings of it so could not attach blame to any one party or parties .
I worked in London for many years so quickly learned the cockney rhyming slang,was fascinated when i returned to Ireland and went racing to find all the Dubs using a bastardised version of the same.Jim Rice was nicknamed Pickles Rice and the Dublin slang for price is pickle you will still here to this day Dublin racegoers and bookies when looking for the price of anything saying.....What pickle.
Just wondering is their any on course bookmaking families big or small over the generations that has stood the test of time still operating in betting rings north or south of Ireland i.e."the Meehans, Fogartys, Hannigans,Griffins Gernons"to mention a few that i can remember.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539