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we will never now find out about which horse was laid by the owners on the 10 march 10.at least harry put his hands up on atr
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LOL not fishing just dont know what the reference to Harry is i can understand why you dont want to say it.
Findlay anger at BHA delay in laying probe
BY TONY SMURTHWAITE 8:00AM 7 MAY 2010
PROFESSIONAL gambler Harry Findlay has hit out at the BHA for a delay in concluding an investigation into him laying his own horses to lose, including Denman in the 2009 Gold Cup.
Findlay has admitted laying the runner-up at Cheltenham, in direct contravention of a rule that carries a disqualification of three months to ten years, but he maintains the bet was only £121 and was placed by an errant key stroke.
The leading owner also admitted to breaking the rules when laying another of his horses, GullibleGordon, to a stake of £20,000 at Chepstow in October. On that occasion, Findlay also placed £100,000 on the horse to win, which it did as 4-6 favourite.
Findlay is angry that a BHA inquiry remains active,more than a year after the lay bet on Denman.
"They wanted to know why I laid Denman for £121 in the Gold Cup in the year before last," Findlay said yesterday.
"It was a mistake, but the fact is that my profit and loss showed that the bet was during a prolonged period when I staked £40,000 on the horse. It was a genuine mistake. I pressed the wrong button.
"My other faux pas was that I rang my friend Glenn[Gill] from Chepstow and told him, as I have for two years, that the only time to trust and back Gullible Gordon was first time out over fences, and to confirm to him that we were going as expected from the front.
"I told him to have £80,000 on the horse, as always five minutes before the off. Glenn, without thinking, but knowing the horse would lead and working with his punting mind, had £100,000 on and laid £20,000 back after two fences.
"Neither of us realised our error until the BHA mentioned it, but there is no doubt that, despite having £80,000 on, we did break the rules."
Findlay was interviewed by BHA investigators after the Denman run in March 2009 and thought he would hear no more of it.
"The two gentlemen from the BHA were intelligent, firm and respectful," he said. "They were total professionals who really understood the betting market. Having thought no more of it when they left, I am astonished to find, first from the press, and then the BHA, that the initial inquiry is ongoing.
"I only bet on Betfair. Even my Tote bets are now on Betfair and all my wagers are truly transparent. The BHA scrutinise my account daily and know without question I am whiter than white. I cannot believe that this has not come to an end. If they wanted to slap me on the wrist or give me a fine, just do it. I have nothing to hide."
The delay in bringing the case to a hearing is believed to be due in part to Findlay's high profile during the jumps season when Denman took part in ‘The Decider', the third Gold Cup clash with stablemate Kauto Star.
Findlay's laying of Gullible Gordon echoes a case involving owners Anthony Ramsden and Robert Owen, charged with laying Mickmacmagoole, a horse they owned.
Both owners were fined £500 as thebreach was deemed ‘technical' following arguments that Ramsden and Owen were net backers of the horse, having laid it to hold up the price before backing it on the day of the race.
The BHA was unwilling to respond to Findlay's criticism, saying: "We will not be making any comment at this stage."
BY TONY SMURTHWAITE 8:00AM 7 MAY 2010
PROFESSIONAL gambler Harry Findlay has hit out at the BHA for a delay in concluding an investigation into him laying his own horses to lose, including Denman in the 2009 Gold Cup.
Findlay has admitted laying the runner-up at Cheltenham, in direct contravention of a rule that carries a disqualification of three months to ten years, but he maintains the bet was only £121 and was placed by an errant key stroke.
The leading owner also admitted to breaking the rules when laying another of his horses, GullibleGordon, to a stake of £20,000 at Chepstow in October. On that occasion, Findlay also placed £100,000 on the horse to win, which it did as 4-6 favourite.
Findlay is angry that a BHA inquiry remains active,more than a year after the lay bet on Denman.
"They wanted to know why I laid Denman for £121 in the Gold Cup in the year before last," Findlay said yesterday.
"It was a mistake, but the fact is that my profit and loss showed that the bet was during a prolonged period when I staked £40,000 on the horse. It was a genuine mistake. I pressed the wrong button.
"My other faux pas was that I rang my friend Glenn[Gill] from Chepstow and told him, as I have for two years, that the only time to trust and back Gullible Gordon was first time out over fences, and to confirm to him that we were going as expected from the front.
"I told him to have £80,000 on the horse, as always five minutes before the off. Glenn, without thinking, but knowing the horse would lead and working with his punting mind, had £100,000 on and laid £20,000 back after two fences.
"Neither of us realised our error until the BHA mentioned it, but there is no doubt that, despite having £80,000 on, we did break the rules."
Findlay was interviewed by BHA investigators after the Denman run in March 2009 and thought he would hear no more of it.
"The two gentlemen from the BHA were intelligent, firm and respectful," he said. "They were total professionals who really understood the betting market. Having thought no more of it when they left, I am astonished to find, first from the press, and then the BHA, that the initial inquiry is ongoing.
"I only bet on Betfair. Even my Tote bets are now on Betfair and all my wagers are truly transparent. The BHA scrutinise my account daily and know without question I am whiter than white. I cannot believe that this has not come to an end. If they wanted to slap me on the wrist or give me a fine, just do it. I have nothing to hide."
The delay in bringing the case to a hearing is believed to be due in part to Findlay's high profile during the jumps season when Denman took part in ‘The Decider', the third Gold Cup clash with stablemate Kauto Star.
Findlay's laying of Gullible Gordon echoes a case involving owners Anthony Ramsden and Robert Owen, charged with laying Mickmacmagoole, a horse they owned.
Both owners were fined £500 as thebreach was deemed ‘technical' following arguments that Ramsden and Owen were net backers of the horse, having laid it to hold up the price before backing it on the day of the race.
The BHA was unwilling to respond to Findlay's criticism, saying: "We will not be making any comment at this stage."
I have to say I had no idea you could not lay your horse once you were net backing it.
In fact I thought you could net lay it on Betfair of you had proven that you had backed it for more ****ed odds.
I guess the reason for it is to try and stop the likes of Findlay manipulating the market (not that this rule is going to stop him)
In fact I thought you could net lay it on Betfair of you had proven that you had backed it for more ****ed odds.
I guess the reason for it is to try and stop the likes of Findlay manipulating the market (not that this rule is going to stop him)
My understanding of the rule is you cant lay at all even if youre net backing it or trading out. Backing at 7 laying at 6 is still breaking the roolz.
He should of known that in fairness with the 20k bet. The €121 was obviously a misclick at those stakes.
He should of known that in fairness with the 20k bet. The €121 was obviously a misclick at those stakes.
Yes Doyler you are obviously right. I suppose on balance it is for the best and if people want to manipulate markets then at least make it hard for them.
I remember the Gullible Gordon race well and to be honest it is clear he did nothing wrong morally
I remember the Gullible Gordon race well and to be honest it is clear he did nothing wrong morally
in his interview on atr with boycie he did admit backing quedallic at newton abbot and laying it back cause it had rained
Sad to see such a lack of logic or even stupidity in the powers that be - clearly the aim of stopping owners and connections taking unfair advantage by laying their own horses ONLY relates to situations when they stand to gain more from laying than backing
I see no problem in this case.
Manipulating markets is a separate issue.
I see no problem in this case.
Manipulating markets is a separate issue.
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