crisis looming fast in irish racing?

I think we'll survive, its only March..

that's pretty unusual alright norekk. I guess the one flip side of the crash is that stupid owners who've bad horses with bad trainers may not be able to afford it anymore.

Bit rich for someone who depends on racing for a living to brand any owner stupid.

If you look at the history of the race, only 10 or 11 run every year in it :| It hasnt had over 14 runners since 2003.

Think its just the time of the year really, still 20 or so entered up in every other race on the card bar the 2000G trial which does be lucky to get 5 or 6 every year.

out of curiosity EMI ....during the rmany travels and interviews you've encountered with Irish racing folk ...would you care to name some of those "stupid trainers".....maybe then if you were kind enough you could then name some of those "stupid owners"......i presume they are the ones who dont own OH.

eye mall in , in flippant comment shockker! have we ever seen this before?

that's pretty unusual alright norekk. I guess the one flip side of the crash is that stupid owners who've bad horses with bad trainers may not be able to afford it anymore.

Totally agree with you EMI

certainly horse ownership is easier to sell to stupid people.........also trainers enjoy dealing with dummys

Might not help it being moved to dept of Agriculture

I can probably count myself as a stupid owner, if that's any use to you lads. Let's be realistic lads - if you are likely to get back something in the region of 15pc of what you spend on training fees in the form of prizemoney on average (not allowing at all for the cost of the horse), how can you make it pay ? Yet there are a load of exposed horses forever running in 0-95s who at best will win an odd race but even that won't cover their cost. How does it add up?

if people want to enjoy race horse ownership and are willing to pay the bills........ best of luck to them, racing needs them.

but its obvious that not everyone can win all the time. but call ing some owners and trainers wreckless names is "stupid" imo because it's a learning process for all involved and no one gets it right first time.

If it were only owners that were interested in making a profit from ownership that got involved in ownership, racing would be in a crisis. Luckily for racing, the majority of owners get involved for other reasons ie, they love racing. To call them stupid for that is disappointing

not at all redbait, I don't think people generally get involved in ownership to make money (they wouldn't want to) but you need a degree of realism too. I think the recession, at least, has imposed some realism on us. I was involved in the purchase of an unraced horse for 25k during the good times. We sold him after he'd raced without much promise for 1,500. But at least we copped what the situation was and cut our losses.
As for trainers, in fairness look at what Willie Mullins is doing with additions to the yard. He's not a genius or anything like that - just a very good trainer.

Ownership is built on a dream. If all owners were realistic about their chances of success, we woudl be going racing to watch Coolmore race against the Arabs every day. The lack of realism is what makes racing go around

not a bad effort at damage limitation EMI....but transparent nonetheless....
you know what....you're a racing journalist....and with all the things that could be perceived wrong with this game of ours, you decided to call owners and trainers stupid for not entering in a specific race. I think you should grow a pair of b*lls and tackle some real issues within racing otherwise say nothing and just draw your wage packet...instead of coming on here and trying to be Mr. Glib.
that's my opinion of course :-)

send me an email oddball if you wish.

I was just wondering out of interest, do many racing journalists post on here?

send you an email? give me an email address and i'll happily discuss any subject with you

EMI ....Oddball207@**.co.uk

rhymes with not mail

Just shows the ill informed ticks on this forum...same low entry in that race all thro celtic tiger..check facts before writing off industrys...my horses balloted out last week must be still a few nags around

tocky junior, have you got the figures to show 'same low entry in that race all thro celtic tiger'? yes, someone has highlighted that same level RAN in the race in recent years... but these are five-day entries, only if ALL of them run will there be the same level as recent years; most likely there will be 7/8 runners...

so, one race doesn't make a disastrous season... but imo the signs are ominous... you only have to scan over a typical recent HRI entry file to see that... and figures have been issued to say numbers in training are down... my point is that come the peak of the season june-sept, when there will be Flat racing nearly every day of the week, and the fixture and race levels being based on where we got to at the peak of the boom, there suddenly there will be a lack of runners... maybe that won't be a bad thing, there will be no more balloting...

not the end of the world, but i expect to see single-figure fields in handicaps (lots of them), like we haven't seen for maybe 15 years in ireland... (for the record in 2008 there were 13 single-figure fields in Flat hcaps in the months July/Aug, in 2009 that figure rose to 31, in 2010 it looks set to soar)

As the recession deepens and with the bar for elimination for horses being raised higher of course there will be less runners and proper order.It will probably not affect the scandalus bookie % they swipe on irish racing .This will become more apperent when it does.Ether way it is a plus for the punter.

I seem to recall same argument was made when 4 runners turned up for the 4-yo bumper in Punchestown at the end of January. Bad weather has held horses up and there's little point in bottoming out a horse if it's not fit. Yes there will be some reductions in numbers but disaster ain't around the corner. The minimum value hcp at the Curragh last week was €14k to the winner so there's still lots (many might say too much) to play for...

For those who can still afford racehorses , this promises to be an excellent year - prizemoney still markedly better than in GB ( and no reduction in base values for the lower level of racing in 2010 ), greatly reduced balloting enabling trainers to place their horses properly and plan out campaigns , etc

What does Irish Racing need?

First of all i believe all Classic's should be moved to night. Imagine the Irish Derby at 8pm on Sunday Night....i think it should be embraced. Night Racing is incredible it just has much more than Day Racing imo. Top Class horses under floodlights.

Curragh etc need a complete revamp. Need lots more and more bigger facilities. Tote windows as far as anyone could see. More pubs/restaurants/bathrooms and bands etc playing after racing. Need tents showing basics of betting and horse riding and videos re-living the greats. More statues of the many great irish horses down through the years. Plaques etc commerating all the brilliant irish racing families and what they have achieved.

Attract outward investment from the U.S.A. Set up fishing/hunting/racing packages for the Americans. Imagine a week like that in Ireland for some one from New York.

Irish Racing needs to use more of its great assests. Most of it is all irish unlike GB who rely complete on Sheikh Mo.

did emi, apologise to every one trying in the racing game for his stupid remarks? i.e. those having fun, living a dream, trying to make a living, working for a living, those contributing to the racing game......etc.... and it is a game, more losers than winners.

JM/JM/AOB - They were going to do up the curragh but too many people moaned, it got delayed and then the money disappeared.

Regarding Sunday night racing, I don't think it'll work. Look at all other sports in UK and Ireland, barring GAA Sunday's get the worst crowds and nobody wants to be anywhere but home at 9pm on Sunday. Big Friday night racing somewhere close to a city centre might work though.

sunday night racing??

away with ya, friday or saturday night maybe

but tbh sunday afternoon is prime time for racing in ireland, cant see that changing

i'm afraid EMI has backed down somewhat in light of his less than complimentary remarks about Ireland's owners and trainers....if he keeps going at this rate he'll be working for the RP next!

Okay Saturday night racing

Obviously all Irish Classics are on a Sunday so that make's it difficult except for the Guineas Weekend.

We need to revamp the main tracks and bring down food/drink prices. We maybe should give Night Racing a trial look at Punchestown in a few weeks it be jammed packed most days if the weather is good even if its called Evening Racing

The HRI like the RFC IN GB are totally useless at this sort of thing. Too many vested interests and old men holding the show back.

Its such a shame imo that Irish Racing is not the forefront of European Racing...we got everything you cant buy. All we need is a few big investors to get involved. I wonder would JP/JM/MOL get involved with stumping up some cash if they got a cut of the revenue. Me think's they would

I haven't backed down, I just don't want people to take me up the wrong way.

its as simple as this EMI....do you feel the need to apologize or not? the answer to that question will tell a lot about you...

do you not think some owners are stupid and some trainers are not very good?

Lots of very foolish people purchased Horses/Houses at silly prices in the last 8 years in this country. There were plenty of vested interests willing to exploit their stupidity.

EMI please....forget about it....you made a mistake (i hope) and when pressed you hadn't it within you to say sorry. Still waiting on your email btw.

I'll throw you an email later so.

Plenty people in the game owning what someone could class as a 'bad' horse with a 'bad' trainer not doing any harm at all. Just enjoying what is good about the sport. What is the "flip side" to removing them? Is there still a strong 'class' element in the sport? Hope not.

I think the only mistake he made was to omit the word "some" in his opening post. He has corrected this in a subsequent post. A reasonable person would understand that he was not referring to ALL owners and trainers in that opening post.

thanks reb
KK, thankfully not. I don't think class and intelligence are related.

Glad to hear that. Unfortunately some people do.

Is there a "flip side" to it though?

I don't think weeding out some of the many very moderate horses in training in Ireland is a bad thing all in all.

Very True Eye

Fair enough. I think your opener just reads harsher than it was meant.

I can't see any positives for racing in someone who wants to own a horse not being able to afford it anymore. Perhaps EMI or the great forum socialist reb can explain to me what these positives are?

reb, for a long time I thought that your true identity was Mervyn Taylor. Now I am certain that you are in fact Fintan O'Toole.

ballotting will improve, quality of races should improve. Surely 440 (approx) trainers in Ireland was too many?

Fintan O' Toole ! Thanks gman, that's much better and closer to my generation. I'm more of a semi-Robin Hood (he took from the rich) than a Socialist though.

Think the real problem for Irish Racing will come if and when the plug is pulled of funding from the state . The Racing game will then have to face up to large amount of hangers on it employs e.g. what type of annual wage does a "starter" get and apart from dropping a flag 7 times the odd day what does he do for it ?.

Norekk, most Irish racing fans have little time for the flat and so what if there are single figure runners in handicaps. It will make it a little easier to sort them out. There were far too many bad flat horses anyway horses. You only need to look at the last race at Dundalk tomorrow when most of those horses should be gone to the meat factory rather than Owners being ripped off with Trainers telling them they have certain winners in the yard.

I can tell you this when Kilbeggan starts up again on May 1st there will be wholesale balloting despite the ground being more than likely fast.

Ballotting would definitely improve but HRI should have resolved that a few years ago anyway. Run an all bumper card at Dundalk every 2 weeks for the winter and run an all maiden hurdle card every 2 weeks at alternating tracks. On the flat, Dundalk, Dundalk and more Dundalk. Problem solved.

My equations regarding owners are very simple. More owners = more money going into racing. Less owners = less money. More money = good. Less money = bad.

I have no problem with the quality of Irish racing. My only issue is that there is not enough of it.

reb, there is nothing I hate more than the notion of the redistribution of wealth. Profit before people, that's how I roll.

Additionally, Fintan O'Toole is Ireland's biggest aftertimer and I can't stand the sight of him.