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Well Bless you got what you wanted.
Hills are closing at least a dozen shops in the Republic with up to 50 job losses.
Must be feeling very smug now..
Hills are closing at least a dozen shops in the Republic with up to 50 job losses.
Must be feeling very smug now..
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BOZZ....The message there is clear TOO MANY BOOKIES SHOPS IN IRELAND. Its killing the game you can't be competitive or even have any atmosphere in the shops if everyone is just ticking over.
The fact is the Telephone betting and the Internet sites has made the need for all these shops now very questionable.
Ironically if I was working in one of those shops for the said company. I be more angry with there in your face promoting of there new £250 million internet site than any threat of a goverment 2% levy .
Every year in their Annual reports most of these bookies are reporting 10% growth figures off the Telephone and Internet sections. So it stands to reason this growth can't all be from new punters its cleary coming from the shops.
Why would anyone bother going to a betting shop on a day like today when you can bet on your internet or phone with the same firm and cheaper by sitting at home? :0
But sadly it pulls one of the aces from the Goverment pack when it comes on how to decide how they can get even 1% from the Telephone and Internet betting channels.
As really their only hope is the threat to tax betting shops even heavier unless the companies with Telephone and Internet sites make a voluntary tax payement for those sites.
Since 99% of the Telephone and Internet sites used here are owned by companies that have a heavy presence of shops in Ireland.
What does that leave Billys with 60 or something, I think at a guess... I suppose the threat would still scare them then........Cheers
The fact is the Telephone betting and the Internet sites has made the need for all these shops now very questionable.
Ironically if I was working in one of those shops for the said company. I be more angry with there in your face promoting of there new £250 million internet site than any threat of a goverment 2% levy .
Every year in their Annual reports most of these bookies are reporting 10% growth figures off the Telephone and Internet sections. So it stands to reason this growth can't all be from new punters its cleary coming from the shops.
Why would anyone bother going to a betting shop on a day like today when you can bet on your internet or phone with the same firm and cheaper by sitting at home? :0
But sadly it pulls one of the aces from the Goverment pack when it comes on how to decide how they can get even 1% from the Telephone and Internet betting channels.
As really their only hope is the threat to tax betting shops even heavier unless the companies with Telephone and Internet sites make a voluntary tax payement for those sites.
Since 99% of the Telephone and Internet sites used here are owned by companies that have a heavy presence of shops in Ireland.
What does that leave Billys with 60 or something, I think at a guess... I suppose the threat would still scare them then........Cheers
Inevitable , shop closures , only the start . Ladc*ooks paid over 2 million( sterling) per shop to Mr Westwood about 9 months ago . Wasn't that a good buy ? Still, reckon the high roller paid for that .
It is the first of many by the big bookies. Someone said to me that over 300 new licences were granted over the last few years - which is a joke. I'd say over a 100 will be closed by the end of the year.
The Iirsh economy is in the Sh1ts and people are losing their jobs every day. Its a sad state of affairs and its one thats going to continue for the forseeable future.
The Iirsh economy is in the Sh1ts and people are losing their jobs every day. Its a sad state of affairs and its one thats going to continue for the forseeable future.
must be value in investing in something in thia climate
nooses maybe ?
nooses maybe ?
whats your source Mr Bozz, cant see anything online about it.
no loss imo, hated their shops.
Oviously feel sorry for the staff though.
Oviously feel sorry for the staff though.
so is all thw william hill shops
to be honest i got the impression they never wanted to be here- too competitive for them
they only came in through acquiring all the stanley shops- they seemed to take an age to even change the name over the doors- a clear sign of apathy to the purchase here in ireland
to be honest i got the impression they never wanted to be here- too competitive for them
they only came in through acquiring all the stanley shops- they seemed to take an age to even change the name over the doors- a clear sign of apathy to the purchase here in ireland
Was surprised to see a sad blokes shop in Waterford close.In my experienced bookmakers tend to act in agreement with each other.
Fascinating to see Blessington's long contribution to this thread.One would assume from reading it that the closure of the shops is a vindication of his long held belief about Ireland having too many shops.
However in a thread in or around the autumn of last year he seemed to hold a diametrically opposite view.
If anyone could be so good as to let me know how to find old threads they might do so.
P.S.I hope doing so does not highlight the fact that I might have been talking c**p as well!!
However in a thread in or around the autumn of last year he seemed to hold a diametrically opposite view.
If anyone could be so good as to let me know how to find old threads they might do so.
P.S.I hope doing so does not highlight the fact that I might have been talking c**p as well!!
TOLMI...Padraics price up 7% on the stock market today. I would have thought listening to you there price would have dropped through the floor on the news of the closures.
Maybe the stock market is reading poor auld Bless views now.....".Less shops more customers good news for everybody". :)
Gosh whats the chances one of those shops will be around the Cork Bus station. Oh dear that mean with Billys gone we will only have 6 shops from 7 within 500 yds of the station now. :(
What do you think will one of the customers double up down there now and share a shop between them? :0
Maybe the stock market is reading poor auld Bless views now.....".Less shops more customers good news for everybody". :)
Gosh whats the chances one of those shops will be around the Cork Bus station. Oh dear that mean with Billys gone we will only have 6 shops from 7 within 500 yds of the station now. :(
What do you think will one of the customers double up down there now and share a shop between them? :0
3 Hills in Ballyfermot has been criminal for years
2 Paddies and a Spoils all adjacent
2 Paddies and a Spoils all adjacent
Try getting a price in any Hills before 10.15am. Answer: "No there's no prices on that race". Delighted theyre going.
At the minute they're not pricing any Irish races before 11:30,complete joke,shows their contempt for their Irish customers.
Their nearest shop to me is about 2 miles away , only had one bet in any of their shops since they took over Stanle*s a few years ago . So cant say I would miss them . Anyway they closed my internet account some time ago ( you are not allowed to back winners consistently apparently) , so there are no tears here .
Yea Kelly a couple of miles to my nearest shop as well and what really used to feck me off was driving all the way there sometimes through rush hour traffic only to be kept waiting for 10 minutes while they rang in my bets and then cut them to pieces.Quite often the same prices were there hours later.I just dont know what the feck they put them up there for if they're not attainable to decent money.
Thanks for that Moneypenny.Unfortunately I cant remember the name of the thread or who started it.
I suppose it was inevitable that those shops which closed were those who failed to re invest in facilities for their customers and generally had staff who treated you like a criminal if you ever had a decent winning bet or beat SP consistently.
Maybe if one were to look at things from Blessington's angle it might seem ironic that the first group to announce closures would be one whose "EGO" was not big enough to have the well fitted out shops in the expensive rent locations!!
I suppose it was inevitable that those shops which closed were those who failed to re invest in facilities for their customers and generally had staff who treated you like a criminal if you ever had a decent winning bet or beat SP consistently.
Maybe if one were to look at things from Blessington's angle it might seem ironic that the first group to announce closures would be one whose "EGO" was not big enough to have the well fitted out shops in the expensive rent locations!!
My last 2 experiences of Hills were on Thyestes day when I was told no prices were available at 1120 and today.I went into one of their Waterford shops today and decided to throw a tenner each way on a 33/1 shot at Lingfield.The docket was written out correctly and legibly and there were no other customers looking for service -despite this it took the cashier at least 2 minutes to give me the docket back.She seemed to be amazed by a stranger having a tenner ew on a long shot.
I wont be going back again -unless they have a stand out price.
I wont be going back again -unless they have a stand out price.
As i said eddie its at least 1130 before they bother their arses putting any Irish prices up,most likely imo as their "compilers"/traders/cut + pasters are busting their balls to see what Padraig Power lay before daring to put their own prices up.Ive also noticed on quiet mornings (ie where Powers aint cut much) its can sometimes be later.A shocking outfit obviously desperately lacking in any knowledge of Irish racing.
Billys had a brillant odds compiler but they let him go and he is making a fortune now on his own.
ah eddie all the cashiers in town have been warned about you and your shrewd each way bets. the poor girl was only doing her job
Moneypenny-the horse was useless-I don't know what it is about me that makes cashiers nervous.
The manager of the shop in Drumcondra has to be one of the most contemptible cretins ever to draw breath.
you probablt told her that she gives u a horn Eddie
Silverbuck-when was the last time you were in the Barrack Street shop-no Lydias working there.
went into a laddies shop yesterday to pick up a few quid ...the manager said they had none..they were after getting cleaned ...
government should give the green light to the roulette machines, much as i hate them. so many will close otherwise
Bring suffering and pain to countless families to prop up an industry that is in decline.
Hills took 50 e/w at 16s off me today in a shop
they batted an eyelid mind
I'd prefer shops to close rather than FOBTs.
Bookies need to rationalise, some areas have too many Paddies(Dublin 15), some lads(Cabra), some hills(ballyfermot)
they batted an eyelid mind
I'd prefer shops to close rather than FOBTs.
Bookies need to rationalise, some areas have too many Paddies(Dublin 15), some lads(Cabra), some hills(ballyfermot)
Eddie Batt 07 Feb 19:29
Bring suffering and pain to countless families to prop up an industry that is in decline.
easy enough to log on and do 1000s in online casinos, don't see the difference
Bring suffering and pain to countless families to prop up an industry that is in decline.
easy enough to log on and do 1000s in online casinos, don't see the difference
Personally I would be in favour of banning online casinos.I spent a few years in London and fruit machines were everywhere -possibly the most intelligent man I know told me he was addicted to machines when he was younger.The last few times I have been back to Lodon I have been amazed at betting shops opening early to facilitate access to these machines.These machines will do nothing for our society.
dont let them in. the gullible and weak will get slaughtered.
Any actual facts about these Hills closures lads?
they will be less inclined to lay a bet if these fobt's are allowed in,no loss to see h1lls closing shops pity they dont p1ss off altogether
thebeg 08 Feb 12:04
they will be less inclined to lay a bet if these fobt's are allowed in,no loss to see h1lls closing shops pity they dont p1ss off altogether
i am no fan of hills, but this is a daft attitude. lots of job losses, and less competition- how is that good for the game?
they will be less inclined to lay a bet if these fobt's are allowed in,no loss to see h1lls closing shops pity they dont p1ss off altogether
i am no fan of hills, but this is a daft attitude. lots of job losses, and less competition- how is that good for the game?
describing willi hills irish shops as competition to anyone is a stretch, terrible shops
Perp,why have people such a problem getting a bet with them?
if these machines are allowed the are guaranteed a weekly profit of 5 or 600 from each one and will concentrate more on them and be less willing to accept bets as they wont have to,as the shop profits will already have been made
if these machines are allowed the are guaranteed a weekly profit of 5 or 600 from each one and will concentrate more on them and be less willing to accept bets as they wont have to,as the shop profits will already have been made
no idea thebeg, i must admit they are shocking layers, and the shops are poor. it is really the "trend" that is worrying more than caring much for billies.
Disgrace about Irish prices nt going up until 11.30. One thing is that they and lads havent restricted my on-line activity unlike paddy's. I can't get any decent bet on with them.
and I've won more off lads and hills than i have off paddy's. I like baldfred as well he's a decent layer.
Too many Paddy Power staff off on here**ging off the likes of spoils, bills, cashmans. lads, vee cee ect.
and I've won more off lads and hills than i have off paddy's. I like baldfred as well he's a decent layer.
Too many Paddy Power staff off on here**ging off the likes of spoils, bills, cashmans. lads, vee cee ect.
Walking into most of Hills shops is like going back in a time warp .... They haven't invested enough and why walk into one of them when you've go a spoils shop that looks like a hotel reception down the road.
I don't care what the shops are like when a firm goes top price and takes a reasonable bet
2 minute transaction
2 minute transaction
In 2001, William Hill closed its Athlone call centre in a ruthless and callous manner that resulted in the loss of more than 300 jobs. This should have provided the firm with over 300 reasons not to re-enter the Irish market in the first place.
Tolmi said "Thanks for that Moneypenny.Unfortunately I cant remember the name of the thread or who started it"
It may been a thread I started called hard times for Irish Bookmakers, it was removed. I seem to remember Bless claiming the game was money for old rope.
It may been a thread I started called hard times for Irish Bookmakers, it was removed. I seem to remember Bless claiming the game was money for old rope.
Many thanks Rock Piper.Nice that someone else has the same recollection of the thread as I had.I'd love if all his contributions could be collated in order to see the number of u turns he has performed on this general topic.
was talking to a manager in a ladcrooks shop outside of work that i know well and she told that they have been informed to take large bets without ring head office first provided its not morning price. I found this hard to believe and asked if a stranger walked in for 5k on a 4/1 shot would he be accepted and she says yes unless they were informed of the horse before hand
correct olddesperado,laDs starting to take big bets these days
It also has something to do with billy hill taking a huge loss on their books last year , probably from bad acquisitions but they have to cut their cloth
There are far too many betting offices , i wonder how they are covering their overheads
There are far too many betting offices , i wonder how they are covering their overheads
TOLMI...Typical of you guys living in the flippant PAST. :(
Did you not read Billy Mountains article in the Racing Post in there interview with one of it Call Centre managers. Not only did he say shops are now things of the past but the haydall for call centres have now gone and the future in bettings belongs to the INTERNET.
Which will be done on your Smartphone / Blackberry, Touchphone, Netbook, Touchphone, House PC, or interactive on your TV.
On the same page they went on to say that 10% of the WHOLE population has now gambled on line. Whats that out of the betting population about 50%.
Which explains why in the U/K 1500 shops have been CLOSED in the last 10 years compared to a INCREASE in shops here of around 20% in the same period.
Yet all you guys still want to live in the PAST in a FANTASY WORLD that the goods times are just around the corner again.While in the process slowly STRANGELING yourselfs to DEATH from the over supply of shops thats leading to poor turnover.
Listen do you want me to take over from Ms Byrne as its clear you guys are just suffering fom a DEARTH of ideas and are firefighting instead of planing for the future.
As this situation where there is a over supply of shops now, thanks to CALL CENTRES and INTERNET BETTING is not in the interest of either ME as a PUNTER or you guys as BOOKIES and the reason why must of us punters can't get a decent bet on in a shop imo.
BIGGER TURNOVER SHOPS = BIGGER PROFITS = BIGGER COMPETITION = REAL and BIGGER CHOICE. B-)
Did you not read Billy Mountains article in the Racing Post in there interview with one of it Call Centre managers. Not only did he say shops are now things of the past but the haydall for call centres have now gone and the future in bettings belongs to the INTERNET.
Which will be done on your Smartphone / Blackberry, Touchphone, Netbook, Touchphone, House PC, or interactive on your TV.
On the same page they went on to say that 10% of the WHOLE population has now gambled on line. Whats that out of the betting population about 50%.
Which explains why in the U/K 1500 shops have been CLOSED in the last 10 years compared to a INCREASE in shops here of around 20% in the same period.
Yet all you guys still want to live in the PAST in a FANTASY WORLD that the goods times are just around the corner again.While in the process slowly STRANGELING yourselfs to DEATH from the over supply of shops thats leading to poor turnover.
Listen do you want me to take over from Ms Byrne as its clear you guys are just suffering fom a DEARTH of ideas and are firefighting instead of planing for the future.
As this situation where there is a over supply of shops now, thanks to CALL CENTRES and INTERNET BETTING is not in the interest of either ME as a PUNTER or you guys as BOOKIES and the reason why must of us punters can't get a decent bet on in a shop imo.
BIGGER TURNOVER SHOPS = BIGGER PROFITS = BIGGER COMPETITION = REAL and BIGGER CHOICE. B-)
Blessington those numbers are misleading as the independent bookmaker has found it very hard to compete with the big guys and either closed down or got bought out , then the bigger guys closed that shop if it was in direct competition with their own one previously.
In ireland its hard to believe though, i think there are 6 big chains on the main street of midleton with PP in carrigtwohill nearby and ive heard there is a new betting office opening in carrigtwohill soon
Thats 8 offices for a 20000 population of which there is a ever decreasing amount of spare money
In ireland its hard to believe though, i think there are 6 big chains on the main street of midleton with PP in carrigtwohill nearby and ive heard there is a new betting office opening in carrigtwohill soon
Thats 8 offices for a 20000 population of which there is a ever decreasing amount of spare money
MAC...Is it TEN BOOKIES SHOPS in Cork City Centre within 5 minutes or LESS of one another? I don't know the name of all the streets but I give it a go.
Magic Sign just off Patrick St beside Easons
Cashmans Mayor Street.
Magic Sign beside the Bus Station.
patricks. on the side of the hotel in South Mall
Billys , Oliver Plunkett Street
Magic Sign across roas beside Morgans pub.
patricks, top of Patricks street beside market.
Cashmans on way to Jurys Hotel
Cashmans beside Beamish
Spoils back over towards Murphys on the Dublin road.
Its a while since I done the complete tour but there all probably still there. Throw in the fact probably everyone in Cork of betting age now has a mobile phone as well and you wonder what the IBA would ever describe as SATURATION point for bookies shops.
As to ask any of them to offer you there own price as the horses approach the off on the 2 o'clock at Plumpton and they look on you as a NUT-TER :0
ps..In Cheltenham on Festival week you be lucky to find 5 shops and over a wider distance..Cheers
Magic Sign just off Patrick St beside Easons
Cashmans Mayor Street.
Magic Sign beside the Bus Station.
patricks. on the side of the hotel in South Mall
Billys , Oliver Plunkett Street
Magic Sign across roas beside Morgans pub.
patricks, top of Patricks street beside market.
Cashmans on way to Jurys Hotel
Cashmans beside Beamish
Spoils back over towards Murphys on the Dublin road.
Its a while since I done the complete tour but there all probably still there. Throw in the fact probably everyone in Cork of betting age now has a mobile phone as well and you wonder what the IBA would ever describe as SATURATION point for bookies shops.
As to ask any of them to offer you there own price as the horses approach the off on the 2 o'clock at Plumpton and they look on you as a NUT-TER :0
ps..In Cheltenham on Festival week you be lucky to find 5 shops and over a wider distance..Cheers
The last time I was at cheltenham I could have sworn I saw nearly 100 bookies spread over an acre
Bless i think billy hill has 2 in the city centre, cashm ans have 4 fairly close around the centre, lads have 4 i think, celtic are there, pp have a few, spoils are absent i think,
Its ridiculous , there used to be rules as to the distance thre had to be between shops but that evaporated i think
Its ridiculous , there used to be rules as to the distance thre had to be between shops but that evaporated i think
SKINNY...There okay for lads like you.
But for well nourished guys like myself :D its out of bounds and the equilvant of a illusion of a OASIS for those lost in a desert.
Many a day in March I spend a afternoon trapped in it and 5 minutes after the race I still did not know who had won the race. :^0
PS...I hear Irish bookings are well down this year for the festival and with £ back to 87p from near one to one for a at Christmas.
It could well be back down to near enough last years rate come mid- March :(
But for well nourished guys like myself :D its out of bounds and the equilvant of a illusion of a OASIS for those lost in a desert.
Many a day in March I spend a afternoon trapped in it and 5 minutes after the race I still did not know who had won the race. :^0
PS...I hear Irish bookings are well down this year for the festival and with £ back to 87p from near one to one for a at Christmas.
It could well be back down to near enough last years rate come mid- March :(
MAC...Yeah I think I said it to you before I used to love that Cashmans in Mayor Street and would have been quite happy to travel to Cork and spend my weekend in it. Now its like most shops as dead as a doornail.
I reckon if the Americans of had bookmakers shops if they wouldn't have needed Guantanomo Bay they could have just dropped off their prisoners off in the local bookmakers.
Since most of them feel like your in a isolation cell now especially mid-week..... :^0
I reckon if the Americans of had bookmakers shops if they wouldn't have needed Guantanomo Bay they could have just dropped off their prisoners off in the local bookmakers.
Since most of them feel like your in a isolation cell now especially mid-week..... :^0
Anyone going to cheltenham surely have their sterling by now , 90odd pence is a great rate when we are used to paying 65p for rate
agree with the saturation point bless but how is it fair on wee indos especially one man shops- i know a lad who poured his redundacy money into it a few years ago and opened up in a small town against one other bookie- now there are 3 in that small small town- beyond common sense
however to those who are trying to compete- how can the gov charge them 2% tax when the big fishwould be as acti are all set up online and on the phone and pay zip
powers have a call centre in tallaght but dont pay any tax because they say the bets are processed no the isle of mann- thats def not fair on the wee guys
yes the wee guys will die out but a future of just powers, saddies and maybe spoils be as active as the uk- ie useless and only open for fobts
i reckon hills moved out now as they have been told fobts are never coming in and no point hanging around for the 2%
however to those who are trying to compete- how can the gov charge them 2% tax when the big fishwould be as acti are all set up online and on the phone and pay zip
powers have a call centre in tallaght but dont pay any tax because they say the bets are processed no the isle of mann- thats def not fair on the wee guys
yes the wee guys will die out but a future of just powers, saddies and maybe spoils be as active as the uk- ie useless and only open for fobts
i reckon hills moved out now as they have been told fobts are never coming in and no point hanging around for the 2%
I'll never understand currency markets . The UK Treasury reduced the interest rate by one full percentage point - and sterling WENT UP ???? WTF is that all about ?
Sterling went up because of the perceived relative weakness of the other currency it was quoted against.
....In spite of the underlying fundamentals of the UK economy at present making for horrific reading...
....In spite of the underlying fundamentals of the UK economy at present making for horrific reading...
**gy....Its clear in a grim-recession like this one bookmakers can go on paying as little that they do. What did Kavanagh from the Racing Board say in the Irish Times recently in the last 8 years the tax from betting has gone from the equilvant of 87 million to 40 million while turnover has increased by 400%
Thats CRAZY while people who can't afford it, are now forced to take deductions in there wage packs rather than lose there jobs. Yets Bookmakers are happy to roll along paying 800% LESS now than they would of if the same figures were been used as in 2001.
Its alright to say a big percentage of betting turnover has come from Call Centres and the Internet which are tax free. But when you ask yourself who is operating these tax free Call Centres and Internet in Ireland the penny drops 99% of them are the same guys who operate the shops.
So yeah maybe its not ideal for guys like your mate, but what type of country in a recession would sit back and watch there people take pay cuts and sign on the dole but yet let companies like bookmaker avoid and pay LESS tax every year on a loophole while watching their turnover increase in the same period..
Which begs the question what can the goverment do, if the Internet bookmakere aren't willing to pay a voluntary levy like some of the off shore bookmakers in the U/K do in England.
Probably nothing except hit them in the SHOPS with the 2% levy since even if it closes some its clear there will still be enough to go around and while you have sympathy for your mate and his buddies and the problems that leaves them, you can't really blame the goverment on this one. imo.......Cheers
Thats CRAZY while people who can't afford it, are now forced to take deductions in there wage packs rather than lose there jobs. Yets Bookmakers are happy to roll along paying 800% LESS now than they would of if the same figures were been used as in 2001.
Its alright to say a big percentage of betting turnover has come from Call Centres and the Internet which are tax free. But when you ask yourself who is operating these tax free Call Centres and Internet in Ireland the penny drops 99% of them are the same guys who operate the shops.
So yeah maybe its not ideal for guys like your mate, but what type of country in a recession would sit back and watch there people take pay cuts and sign on the dole but yet let companies like bookmaker avoid and pay LESS tax every year on a loophole while watching their turnover increase in the same period..
Which begs the question what can the goverment do, if the Internet bookmakere aren't willing to pay a voluntary levy like some of the off shore bookmakers in the U/K do in England.
Probably nothing except hit them in the SHOPS with the 2% levy since even if it closes some its clear there will still be enough to go around and while you have sympathy for your mate and his buddies and the problems that leaves them, you can't really blame the goverment on this one. imo.......Cheers
was down in Cork over Christmas
Douglas - Lads, Cahmans, PP, spoils, VC all within spitting distance
In Cork City, Hacketts are near Cashmans on Sullivans Quay
Hills on Oliver Plunkett plus up past Tommy Ryans old place on Gilabbbey St
I think Cashmans is Sheare St is gone.
Can't believe Lads on Drawbridge st is still open, talk about passing trade
Spoils have a big shop near the Queens old castle which isn't far from Paddies on Cornmarket St
Cashmans on Maylor St and Lads Parnell Place still operating
Lads on Marlborough st
Used to be a lads on North Main St also
Celtic used to be up on McCurtain St, not sure if they still are, used to be an old Stanleys there years ago
Douglas - Lads, Cahmans, PP, spoils, VC all within spitting distance
In Cork City, Hacketts are near Cashmans on Sullivans Quay
Hills on Oliver Plunkett plus up past Tommy Ryans old place on Gilabbbey St
I think Cashmans is Sheare St is gone.
Can't believe Lads on Drawbridge st is still open, talk about passing trade
Spoils have a big shop near the Queens old castle which isn't far from Paddies on Cornmarket St
Cashmans on Maylor St and Lads Parnell Place still operating
Lads on Marlborough st
Used to be a lads on North Main St also
Celtic used to be up on McCurtain St, not sure if they still are, used to be an old Stanleys there years ago
by the looks of it there's surely going to be more closures by all firms. Just looking at your figures for Cork .... thats madness !!! Thanks Bertie for the **g celtic tiger !!!!
galway is the same
by my count there are 14 inside the city( woodquay(3), city centre(4), shop street(2), foter st(1), dom(3) bohermore (1)
then loads on the outskirts estates
but bless who will go- doubt it will be paddies- they'll likely hold onto all 3 shops in galway and prob open another one- we've already lost culinannes and i here saddies are closing the one in eyre square, brian fahy will hardly last too much longer when it goes to 2% aand mulhollands will prob close a few
my point is once the big cats have killed the wee kittens we can kiss goodbye to all the concessions and enhancements- no more guaranteed odds, no more money back specials, no extra places heck they'll prob wont even pay double result anymore
by my count there are 14 inside the city( woodquay(3), city centre(4), shop street(2), foter st(1), dom(3) bohermore (1)
then loads on the outskirts estates
but bless who will go- doubt it will be paddies- they'll likely hold onto all 3 shops in galway and prob open another one- we've already lost culinannes and i here saddies are closing the one in eyre square, brian fahy will hardly last too much longer when it goes to 2% aand mulhollands will prob close a few
my point is once the big cats have killed the wee kittens we can kiss goodbye to all the concessions and enhancements- no more guaranteed odds, no more money back specials, no extra places heck they'll prob wont even pay double result anymore
**gy...This is TOP SECRET.I might have to k1lled you after you read this. :^0
The BLESS theory is when the dead wood is removed the shops that are left will get there customers of the ones who close down.
That should mean that the running costs per customer of the rest of these shops such as from Rent, SIS, Wages, ESB, insurances, etc, should decrease. Which in turn will make them more profitable.
It also should mean because these shops will now have a increase volume of customers the shops themselves should be more willing and able to take on a larger bet. Lets face it taking the example of the guy yesterday couldn't get his 300 ew on a 8/1 chance at Plumpton. If it had won it probably would have been 3 days profit for that shop gone in one race.
Hopefully when the dead wood is removed taken bets like the 300 ew in shops like the one mentioned will only be a matter of somebody willing to risk losing one days profit rather than half the week.
Likewise will the profits per shop rising things will get more competitive in them. At the moment if a customer in Corks falls out with the staff in his local Spoils nobody cares less because his business loss won't make much difference to anybody as he could go to any of the other 9 shops within walking distance.
It should be a different result when there is less shops. As any loss of customer will mean he's not only been lost to spoils but he might be making the only other shop in the area more profitable as he could well take his mates with him.
Plus more profitable shops will encourage new entrants to come into the market of a higher quality as the profits and benefits to be gained should now be worth completing for unlike at present.
I don't think either it would necessary be the end of the small man either. :) But it certainly will require a more hands on approach from the small shops staff. A bit like the betting ring on a Curragh evening meeting. They won't be able to just sit back and wait for the business but instead they will have to chase it by putting there neck on the line with there OWN opinions of the outcome of a market.
Its inenvitable anyway that betting shop staff is going to have to become more pro-active in there shops business if they want to hold on to the it. Which should benefit the likes of the small independents and put a premiun on good staff.
As with the rise of the Internet and better and cheaper access to new technology like smart phones, touchplones, and interactive TV, as well as the betting levy. The question begs how long will guys continue coming into empty shop where the craic is gone and pay more for the privilege when they can just as easy and cheaper bet from the comfort of home, work, or car.
Thats the way I see it at least. When the dead wood is gone business will come more competitve, more profitable making the shops more valueable. If spoils or the likes had a shop worth £2 million like the Eastwood shops went for up North you can bet they be more keener to either hold on to that business or take it from somebody else.
Which in turn will see good staff will getting paid more.
While Punters will get the bets on they want to get on, finally get choice and the Craic be back in the shops. B-) ......Cheers
The BLESS theory is when the dead wood is removed the shops that are left will get there customers of the ones who close down.
That should mean that the running costs per customer of the rest of these shops such as from Rent, SIS, Wages, ESB, insurances, etc, should decrease. Which in turn will make them more profitable.
It also should mean because these shops will now have a increase volume of customers the shops themselves should be more willing and able to take on a larger bet. Lets face it taking the example of the guy yesterday couldn't get his 300 ew on a 8/1 chance at Plumpton. If it had won it probably would have been 3 days profit for that shop gone in one race.
Hopefully when the dead wood is removed taken bets like the 300 ew in shops like the one mentioned will only be a matter of somebody willing to risk losing one days profit rather than half the week.
Likewise will the profits per shop rising things will get more competitive in them. At the moment if a customer in Corks falls out with the staff in his local Spoils nobody cares less because his business loss won't make much difference to anybody as he could go to any of the other 9 shops within walking distance.
It should be a different result when there is less shops. As any loss of customer will mean he's not only been lost to spoils but he might be making the only other shop in the area more profitable as he could well take his mates with him.
Plus more profitable shops will encourage new entrants to come into the market of a higher quality as the profits and benefits to be gained should now be worth completing for unlike at present.
I don't think either it would necessary be the end of the small man either. :) But it certainly will require a more hands on approach from the small shops staff. A bit like the betting ring on a Curragh evening meeting. They won't be able to just sit back and wait for the business but instead they will have to chase it by putting there neck on the line with there OWN opinions of the outcome of a market.
Its inenvitable anyway that betting shop staff is going to have to become more pro-active in there shops business if they want to hold on to the it. Which should benefit the likes of the small independents and put a premiun on good staff.
As with the rise of the Internet and better and cheaper access to new technology like smart phones, touchplones, and interactive TV, as well as the betting levy. The question begs how long will guys continue coming into empty shop where the craic is gone and pay more for the privilege when they can just as easy and cheaper bet from the comfort of home, work, or car.
Thats the way I see it at least. When the dead wood is gone business will come more competitve, more profitable making the shops more valueable. If spoils or the likes had a shop worth £2 million like the Eastwood shops went for up North you can bet they be more keener to either hold on to that business or take it from somebody else.
Which in turn will see good staff will getting paid more.
While Punters will get the bets on they want to get on, finally get choice and the Craic be back in the shops. B-) ......Cheers
Hills refunding antepost bets on Exotic Dancer in this. Fair play.
Eye Mall..... Are the rules now the same with everybody for Ante Post races which are postponed. ie bets carry forward once the race enteries aren't re-opended.
I think in the past firms had different rules....Has that been sorted? .....Cheers.
I think in the past firms had different rules....Has that been sorted? .....Cheers.
I'm not sure Bless, I was wondering this before. I assume given that they sent a presser about it that if you backed the other horses, they are still valid bets. they were biggest The Listener as well so fair play to them. Imagine L*dbrokes doing something as punter-friendly.
It is a nice turn.
Spoils were also refunding all losing bets on Ire/France, in the event O'Driscoll scored a try.
Must have cost John big-time on the French value-seeking punters.
Spoils were also refunding all losing bets on Ire/France, in the event O'Driscoll scored a try.
Must have cost John big-time on the French value-seeking punters.
This instance really brings this rule under the spotlight. Same course, same conditions thereabouts, as a week earlier. But because it's a week later, Exotic Dancer does not run. A tricky one really.
yer man off Setanta mentioned the closure of 14 shops in his article in the business section of the Indo
mentioned the shops weren't as salubrious as Paddies or Lads
mentioned the shops weren't as salubrious as Paddies or Lads
CUPWINK....Don't worry about Billys shop closure. The IIBA and Ms Byrne reckon if the goverment change the tax structure according to this article in last Saturday Racing Post they will create another 4500 jobs and about another 1500 bookmaker shops. ;)
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THE Irish Independent Bookmakers' Association is pressing for a "completely new tax structure", and believes the government and Horse Racing Ireland should be willing to take on board the proposal, writes Brian Fleming.
Sharon Byrne, of the IIBA, said yesterday that her talks with HRI on Thursday, when she outlined her proposal, were very productive.
"We're looking for a licence fee tax per shop, rather than a turnover tax, and a completely new structure for charging the betting tax," said Byrne.
"I';ve had tax advice on this and if the government listens - and I think it will - it will help everybody and guarantee money for HRI and the government itself.
It would also attract more companies to Ireland."
Byrne claimed the new structure would be fair, keep shops open, create 4,500 jobs, and provide the government and HRI with adequate funding.
She added: "We are the only business in Europe taxed on turnover, so if results are bad and we're losing money, we have to pay more tax on top, which is unfair.
"We met HRI on Thursday and it was a very productive meeting. I have to go back and meet them again with more detailed figures next week, but I think this is a fair proposal, and when I ran it by our members they were fully supportive."
This week, the Association of Higher Civil and Public Servants, which represents more than 3,000 senior civil servants and managers in the commercial and non-commercial state sector, called for several taxes to be sharply increased, including gambling tax. :(
From May 1, betting tax in Ireland is to double to two per cent, which Byrne said will put many of her members out of business.
...................................................................................................................
She didn't say what she thought a extra 4500 staff in bookies shops would do for her members. Somehow if I was them I rather pay the extra 1% than see another 1500 shops opened.
But thats just me :^0 .......Cheers
............................................................................................................
THE Irish Independent Bookmakers' Association is pressing for a "completely new tax structure", and believes the government and Horse Racing Ireland should be willing to take on board the proposal, writes Brian Fleming.
Sharon Byrne, of the IIBA, said yesterday that her talks with HRI on Thursday, when she outlined her proposal, were very productive.
"We're looking for a licence fee tax per shop, rather than a turnover tax, and a completely new structure for charging the betting tax," said Byrne.
"I';ve had tax advice on this and if the government listens - and I think it will - it will help everybody and guarantee money for HRI and the government itself.
It would also attract more companies to Ireland."
Byrne claimed the new structure would be fair, keep shops open, create 4,500 jobs, and provide the government and HRI with adequate funding.
She added: "We are the only business in Europe taxed on turnover, so if results are bad and we're losing money, we have to pay more tax on top, which is unfair.
"We met HRI on Thursday and it was a very productive meeting. I have to go back and meet them again with more detailed figures next week, but I think this is a fair proposal, and when I ran it by our members they were fully supportive."
This week, the Association of Higher Civil and Public Servants, which represents more than 3,000 senior civil servants and managers in the commercial and non-commercial state sector, called for several taxes to be sharply increased, including gambling tax. :(
From May 1, betting tax in Ireland is to double to two per cent, which Byrne said will put many of her members out of business.
...................................................................................................................
She didn't say what she thought a extra 4500 staff in bookies shops would do for her members. Somehow if I was them I rather pay the extra 1% than see another 1500 shops opened.
But thats just me :^0 .......Cheers
blessington,
can you clarify your angle here ? you want to see independents close, people out of work, and the big firms survive?
if this is your point, then thats your right to express your view. seems very narrow minded though
can you clarify your angle here ? you want to see independents close, people out of work, and the big firms survive?
if this is your point, then thats your right to express your view. seems very narrow minded though
WIN ONLY.....My view is very clear if you bothered to read my threads. :0
There are too many bookie shops which is no good for the
1..Staff..(Since they know themselves when they look up from there counters this job can't survive.
2.The Owners.( Since they must know also this business can't survive with business so thinly spread
3..ME the Punter( Since knowbody wants to take a bet anymore since they know they can't make a book with business so thinly spread) Likewise with so many shops there is nobody in them so you might as well sit at home and bet as to go to a bookmakers mid week and stand in them on your own like a pr1ck.
While I also believe if shops become more profitable a better competition will enter the market which will leave me with better prices. Let me make it clear I'm not against bookies making profits in fact I'm all for it. More profitable shops from more customers coming through the door to me means better prices for punters and for bigger bets. :)
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While I also have no love for IIBA...They talk sh1te. Even the dogs on the street know the problem for the shops, come from over supply of shops, the Internet ,and Call Centres.
Instead of p1ssing in the wind like they are over the 1% extra levy they should be tackling the real problems for shops like I mentioned too many liceneces been issued the growth of Internet and Call Centres tax free betting. Like I said before 99% of this business is been done by guys who own shops themselves. So trying to blame the goverments for their problems to me is a bit of a JOKE.
As for jobs. Just because shops will need to close doesn't mean there won't be new jobs coming in the shops that are left since the customer base should stay the same size or even rise after the closure of the dead wood.
Likewise these jobs should be better jobs than the one's they left. Because the shops that are left should be more secure and making better profits.
True one or two staff will fall by the wayside but really there is no reason why these guys can't get a job eventually in some other part of retailing. Its not like they are hugely well paid now or specalists in a particular field.
I'm sure those with cash handling skills and expereince of dealing with people won't have any problem fitting in again somewhere. Sure wasn't I unemployed myself loads of times and it hasn't done me any harm and some would say been a full time punter on here is still unemployed. :^0 Cheers
There are too many bookie shops which is no good for the
1..Staff..(Since they know themselves when they look up from there counters this job can't survive.
2.The Owners.( Since they must know also this business can't survive with business so thinly spread
3..ME the Punter( Since knowbody wants to take a bet anymore since they know they can't make a book with business so thinly spread) Likewise with so many shops there is nobody in them so you might as well sit at home and bet as to go to a bookmakers mid week and stand in them on your own like a pr1ck.
While I also believe if shops become more profitable a better competition will enter the market which will leave me with better prices. Let me make it clear I'm not against bookies making profits in fact I'm all for it. More profitable shops from more customers coming through the door to me means better prices for punters and for bigger bets. :)
...........................................................................................................
While I also have no love for IIBA...They talk sh1te. Even the dogs on the street know the problem for the shops, come from over supply of shops, the Internet ,and Call Centres.
Instead of p1ssing in the wind like they are over the 1% extra levy they should be tackling the real problems for shops like I mentioned too many liceneces been issued the growth of Internet and Call Centres tax free betting. Like I said before 99% of this business is been done by guys who own shops themselves. So trying to blame the goverments for their problems to me is a bit of a JOKE.
As for jobs. Just because shops will need to close doesn't mean there won't be new jobs coming in the shops that are left since the customer base should stay the same size or even rise after the closure of the dead wood.
Likewise these jobs should be better jobs than the one's they left. Because the shops that are left should be more secure and making better profits.
True one or two staff will fall by the wayside but really there is no reason why these guys can't get a job eventually in some other part of retailing. Its not like they are hugely well paid now or specalists in a particular field.
I'm sure those with cash handling skills and expereince of dealing with people won't have any problem fitting in again somewhere. Sure wasn't I unemployed myself loads of times and it hasn't done me any harm and some would say been a full time punter on here is still unemployed. :^0 Cheers
competition is completely in you (the punters) favour. you might have the odd good point, but to say shop closures are goof for the punter is, with respect, b0llox
WIN ONLY....Closure is good for the punters, because at the moment the ones that are here aren't enough competition. What other business do you know at the moment where you can find threads up about business been refused like you see daily on here. It was only last Tuesday some guy reported been knocked back on a 300 ew bet on a 8/1 chance in Newbridge Co Kildare.
For flip sake any other business would have took it and just dumped it on Betfair just to facilitate its customer. The only business that refuses business is one who knows there is no competition operation in its industry or one who can't afford to take on extra business due to its own financial situation.
So don't give me that there's enough competition or the ones who are there are completing fiercely.
Either these boys aren't competing,... or there turnover in there shop is not high enough to match a 300 ew on a 8/1 shot.
With closures these type of shops will either be able to match these bets from higher turnover......
or because the fact that they are doing higher turnover they will be afraid to refuse the bet in case it will lead them back into the days when turnover was too small,.... caused by leaving room for more shops to enter there area by refusing bets from guys who were just feeling lucky .....Cheers
For flip sake any other business would have took it and just dumped it on Betfair just to facilitate its customer. The only business that refuses business is one who knows there is no competition operation in its industry or one who can't afford to take on extra business due to its own financial situation.
So don't give me that there's enough competition or the ones who are there are completing fiercely.
Either these boys aren't competing,... or there turnover in there shop is not high enough to match a 300 ew on a 8/1 shot.
With closures these type of shops will either be able to match these bets from higher turnover......
or because the fact that they are doing higher turnover they will be afraid to refuse the bet in case it will lead them back into the days when turnover was too small,.... caused by leaving room for more shops to enter there area by refusing bets from guys who were just feeling lucky .....Cheers
The RP article on the WH betting shop closures in Ireland reported that, the main reason for the closures was, the Irish Government would not give a license for FOBT in betting shops.
blessington,
you see what you want to see, and understand what you want to understand . a man will be no more likely to get 300ew an 8/1 shot if there are 25% less shops you cretin- indeed he would be less likely to.
you see what you want to see, and understand what you want to understand . a man will be no more likely to get 300ew an 8/1 shot if there are 25% less shops you cretin- indeed he would be less likely to.
KEVO...Thats a bit like Ryanair Micheal O'leary saying today that he's letting 200 staff go in Dublin because of the goverment 10 tax. When in truth, the reason why I'm not flying with him this week when I head to Paris is not because of any threat of a 10 tax but more the threat that he charge me a extra 90 AGAIN because my bags were overweight at Christmas the last time I travelled.
Both him and Billy would hate to say they weren't doing the business because there service wasn't good enough to win the business that is there.
In another article on Tuesday Billys spokeswoman a odds complier said the future was in the Internet for betting when she was intereviewed . While last week a Call Centre manager in J0es said the same its all Internet and even Call Centre now had there hay day.
So I suppose its no real surprise for Billys to close some of there less profitable shops and use it as a excuse to push for FOBT for its other 36 shops if they see the real growth in the business lying elsewhere. But judgeing from the boys on here it doesn't seem they be missed anyway...Cheers
Both him and Billy would hate to say they weren't doing the business because there service wasn't good enough to win the business that is there.
In another article on Tuesday Billys spokeswoman a odds complier said the future was in the Internet for betting when she was intereviewed . While last week a Call Centre manager in J0es said the same its all Internet and even Call Centre now had there hay day.
So I suppose its no real surprise for Billys to close some of there less profitable shops and use it as a excuse to push for FOBT for its other 36 shops if they see the real growth in the business lying elsewhere. But judgeing from the boys on here it doesn't seem they be missed anyway...Cheers
WIN ONLY....Take the Eastwoods shops in Belfast which sold for £2 million each. Do you really think that if the spoils shops in the South reached that value that they would risk constanly refusing bets and open the door for a competitor to move and risk seen that shop value drop in half. No they wouldn't they fight tooth and nail to get that shop to hold its value and even risk taking dangerous bets.
At the moment now with the recession the bulk of bookies shops are now worth little more than the price of the sets of keys that open its doors. Most have no interest now in chasing business. So look at you yourself in the other thread complaining you couldn't get your bet on a South African race. Do you think that company really thinks they are operating in a fiercely competitive market.
Flip sake WIN ONLY the forum is FULL of Bookmakers here rejecting bets. There is no other business in Ireland at the moment rejection business like the bookmaking industry. Why because your business has no value to them. Nobody wants to buy the majority of shops now in Ireland so its no good taken your business to boost turnover figures,.... or likewise a bet on a quiet market as they can't make a book on it anyway as there not enough custom coming through that shop for that market.
No get rid of half the shops and hope a few new hungarier competitors come in from overseas and open a few mega shops and put the cat among the pigeons. Its pointless for them at the moment since nobody is make a massive return from betting shops because of the over supply of Mickey Mouse shops around.....Cheers
At the moment now with the recession the bulk of bookies shops are now worth little more than the price of the sets of keys that open its doors. Most have no interest now in chasing business. So look at you yourself in the other thread complaining you couldn't get your bet on a South African race. Do you think that company really thinks they are operating in a fiercely competitive market.
Flip sake WIN ONLY the forum is FULL of Bookmakers here rejecting bets. There is no other business in Ireland at the moment rejection business like the bookmaking industry. Why because your business has no value to them. Nobody wants to buy the majority of shops now in Ireland so its no good taken your business to boost turnover figures,.... or likewise a bet on a quiet market as they can't make a book on it anyway as there not enough custom coming through that shop for that market.
No get rid of half the shops and hope a few new hungarier competitors come in from overseas and open a few mega shops and put the cat among the pigeons. Its pointless for them at the moment since nobody is make a massive return from betting shops because of the over supply of Mickey Mouse shops around.....Cheers
Maybe if knew something about the industry Blessington you might be taken seriously.Just on a couple of points you seem to have a problem with remembering
1.As Rock Piper has said in his contribution, about 6 months ago you rubbished his and my assertion that the number of shops in this country was about to go into decline with a "pull the other one lads" followed by a knowing wink smiley[one of the few things you seem to know something about!!]Now you seem to be making out that you knew there were too many shops in the country all along.
2.If you knew anything about the industry you would know that your often quoted price for Eastwoods was attained because it is virtually impossible to obtain a new licence in the North because of the demand test.In order for firms to enter the market there it is necessary to buy in rather than open up a new office.An office in the Republic is worth nothing like the same multiple of turnover as the magic sign are finding out.
3.This in turn leads me to your totally non sensical point about competition.The margin in shops in the North is 16/17% because of the lack of competition.In the South it is 10/12%.Less competition will be bad for the punter and increase margins for the bookmaker.
4.Less than 2/3 s of the 1200 odd shops here have offshore internet/telephone operations not the 99% you quote.
5.Finally the introduction of the 2% levy will make it harder to get bets on rather than easier as you seem to think as the bookmaker pays tax on the stake not the profit on the bet.
1.As Rock Piper has said in his contribution, about 6 months ago you rubbished his and my assertion that the number of shops in this country was about to go into decline with a "pull the other one lads" followed by a knowing wink smiley[one of the few things you seem to know something about!!]Now you seem to be making out that you knew there were too many shops in the country all along.
2.If you knew anything about the industry you would know that your often quoted price for Eastwoods was attained because it is virtually impossible to obtain a new licence in the North because of the demand test.In order for firms to enter the market there it is necessary to buy in rather than open up a new office.An office in the Republic is worth nothing like the same multiple of turnover as the magic sign are finding out.
3.This in turn leads me to your totally non sensical point about competition.The margin in shops in the North is 16/17% because of the lack of competition.In the South it is 10/12%.Less competition will be bad for the punter and increase margins for the bookmaker.
4.Less than 2/3 s of the 1200 odd shops here have offshore internet/telephone operations not the 99% you quote.
5.Finally the introduction of the 2% levy will make it harder to get bets on rather than easier as you seem to think as the bookmaker pays tax on the stake not the profit on the bet.
TOLMI.....Your right I have no inside track in the industry apart from been a customer who makes his living from the game. But isn't it sad your industry is in a MESS and I'm the only one here putting points on how to take it FORWARD.....All you guys want to do is talk about is the PAST.
Even with Bless all you want to do is go BACK. Who cares what happened or was said in the past now. The whole world has changed in the last 6 months we now have to adopt and come up with new ideas to survive.
Alright your points
1...Your first one is already addressed the world doesn't stand stilll so either should somebody opinions.
2.If you knew anything about the industry you would know that your often quoted price for Eastwoods was attained because it is virtually impossible to obtain a new licence in the North because of the demand test.In order for firms to enter the market there it is necessary to buy in rather than open up a new office.An office in the Republic is worth nothing like the same multiple of turnover as the magic sign are finding out.
( Tolmi if the bl00dy Taxi drivers can find the time to march to the licence office to protest over too many licences been issued now surely your assocation can now start a similar campaign.) :0
3.This in turn leads me to your totally non sensical point about competition.The margin in shops in the North is 16/17% because of the lack of competition.In the South it is 10/12%.Less competition will be bad for the punter and increase margins for the bookmaker.
( I presume that means you now agree with Bless there is now too many shops which is effecting turnover and making competition non viable, as to compete you need to start from a sound finacial footing.)
4.Less than 2/3 s of the 1200 odd shops here have offshore internet/telephone operations not the 99% you quote.
The 99% is the figure I reckon is done on the Internet by businesses who own Irish shops. As a professional I can't thing of any serious player operating on the internet here who hasn't got a office here. So by taxing the shops the goverment is really saying to them okay your getting away through a loophole by avoiding tax so we hit your shops instead.
To use your own figures that would make 800 shops who also are offering a tax free service to its customers through its head office. (How does that refect on a goverment who is removing remedial teachers from kids who need them, just to save another 6 million.) Your members who own the other 400 shops must be cracking up at this.
5.Finally the introduction of the 2% levy will make it harder to get bets on rather than easier as you seem to think as the bookmaker pays tax on the stake not the profit on the bet.
If shops close down and the ones that are left can't now make the extra 1% from the increase volume of business now heading there way as well as the lower overhead per customer. Then they shouldn't really be in business in the first place.
If I were you guys, what I be telling or doing for my members is.
1....I would get the goverment to put a 2 year embargo on issueing new licences and push to allow the old ones to be transferable. if the Pubs, The Taxis, Pharmacys unions can do it, surely it shouldn't be beyond the IIBA
2....I would propose that bookmakers operating Internet and Call Centre operations start contributing a vountary levy similar to v1ctors in England or even Betfair in Ireland.
3...I would start a Marketing campaign to punters like myself that if you do really love your local bookmaker shop you should stop using Call Centres and the Internet for your betting. ( A campaign like the post offices and local shops done in England) B-)
4...I would also make staff in these shops aware when they hear there customers talking about how they had a bet on the Internet even if its with there own head office that they have put a nail in the coffin for this shop by denying it their business.
If you can get the 4 above implemented I think you have some chance of keeping the staus quo of shops that you have. Than releaseing press releases expecting anybody to believe the Industry can or needs another 4500 working in it from new shops ets.
Your kidding yourselfs and your members if you really think a 5.5 BILLION industry is going to get away with paying 40 odd million from it in a recession like this one. In fact if anything if I was you guys I be looking over my shoulder to see when the next increase is going to come. :0 ......Cheers
Even with Bless all you want to do is go BACK. Who cares what happened or was said in the past now. The whole world has changed in the last 6 months we now have to adopt and come up with new ideas to survive.
Alright your points
1...Your first one is already addressed the world doesn't stand stilll so either should somebody opinions.
2.If you knew anything about the industry you would know that your often quoted price for Eastwoods was attained because it is virtually impossible to obtain a new licence in the North because of the demand test.In order for firms to enter the market there it is necessary to buy in rather than open up a new office.An office in the Republic is worth nothing like the same multiple of turnover as the magic sign are finding out.
( Tolmi if the bl00dy Taxi drivers can find the time to march to the licence office to protest over too many licences been issued now surely your assocation can now start a similar campaign.) :0
3.This in turn leads me to your totally non sensical point about competition.The margin in shops in the North is 16/17% because of the lack of competition.In the South it is 10/12%.Less competition will be bad for the punter and increase margins for the bookmaker.
( I presume that means you now agree with Bless there is now too many shops which is effecting turnover and making competition non viable, as to compete you need to start from a sound finacial footing.)
4.Less than 2/3 s of the 1200 odd shops here have offshore internet/telephone operations not the 99% you quote.
The 99% is the figure I reckon is done on the Internet by businesses who own Irish shops. As a professional I can't thing of any serious player operating on the internet here who hasn't got a office here. So by taxing the shops the goverment is really saying to them okay your getting away through a loophole by avoiding tax so we hit your shops instead.
To use your own figures that would make 800 shops who also are offering a tax free service to its customers through its head office. (How does that refect on a goverment who is removing remedial teachers from kids who need them, just to save another 6 million.) Your members who own the other 400 shops must be cracking up at this.
5.Finally the introduction of the 2% levy will make it harder to get bets on rather than easier as you seem to think as the bookmaker pays tax on the stake not the profit on the bet.
If shops close down and the ones that are left can't now make the extra 1% from the increase volume of business now heading there way as well as the lower overhead per customer. Then they shouldn't really be in business in the first place.
If I were you guys, what I be telling or doing for my members is.
1....I would get the goverment to put a 2 year embargo on issueing new licences and push to allow the old ones to be transferable. if the Pubs, The Taxis, Pharmacys unions can do it, surely it shouldn't be beyond the IIBA
2....I would propose that bookmakers operating Internet and Call Centre operations start contributing a vountary levy similar to v1ctors in England or even Betfair in Ireland.
3...I would start a Marketing campaign to punters like myself that if you do really love your local bookmaker shop you should stop using Call Centres and the Internet for your betting. ( A campaign like the post offices and local shops done in England) B-)
4...I would also make staff in these shops aware when they hear there customers talking about how they had a bet on the Internet even if its with there own head office that they have put a nail in the coffin for this shop by denying it their business.
If you can get the 4 above implemented I think you have some chance of keeping the staus quo of shops that you have. Than releaseing press releases expecting anybody to believe the Industry can or needs another 4500 working in it from new shops ets.
Your kidding yourselfs and your members if you really think a 5.5 BILLION industry is going to get away with paying 40 odd million from it in a recession like this one. In fact if anything if I was you guys I be looking over my shoulder to see when the next increase is going to come. :0 ......Cheers
Loads of opinions on here , been travelling east myself for last 3days-- dont ever go near Doha when there are sandstorms around -- nothing to do there except work . Re shops in Ireland ( and England ) , they are as dead as the dodo . Will never regain their eminence , Lads paid over 2 million per shop for E/woods , great sell by Barney . Doubt if any shop in South is worth ONE million , because to be worth a million it has to generate a net yearly profit of 150k , which is probably the equivalent of 500k before expenses , which represents a turnover of 5 million p.a. Thats 15 k a day ,day on day , bad weather and Sundays included , and they srcutinise bets of 50 or more , particularly if they are each way . Sums dont add up , in the North they have the infernal FOBTs , which like on line betting casinos should be banned as there is no skill involved , so no margin for a shrewd operator , and my maxim has always been --If you cant win , you cant lose -- so who sanctions on line casinos ? But they are dependent on numpties paying the FOBTs , and eventually there will be few if any punters in the shops . Only person who might do well is an independent , prepared to work all the hours God sends and willing to take bets bucking the market trends --as defined by Betfair odds . Ultimately the bean counters who now run virtually all the bookies will preside over the demise of what was for a good while a vibrant and interesting industry . Characters have virtually all gone , trend now is for well dressed spokesmen and women to appear on TV talking about the big bets and sponsorship which they are involved with , when we all know NONE of them will lay any discerning punter any decent bet on a trier .Only place to bet now is the exchange(s) , everybody better get used to it , and its better than the bookies anyway as regards odds , except for each way stuff . Cheers .
Bless nowhere in the article does Mrs Byrne say that the 4500 jobs will be created by the opening of new shops.
These jobs mainly will come from companies coming into Ireland that are currently in other countries.
These jobs mainly will come from companies coming into Ireland that are currently in other countries.
PP are blowing their whole about the new shops they are opening including the 1st in scotland--however as i said , the small operator will be blown out of the water as he hasnt got the total turnover to compete wuith the concessions and special offers along with the 2%.The giant will buy these up and close them down if they are too near a existing shop of theirs
how the fk pps managed to get the new shops in scotland in the piece was ridiculous, shoddy journalism
irishbookmaker 13 Feb 16:49
Bless nowhere in the article does Mrs Byrne say that the 4500 jobs will be created by the opening of new shops.
These jobs mainly will come from companies coming into Ireland that are currently in other countries.
Irishbookmaker your surely barking up the wrong tree with that one. Call Centres are more likely to be found in low cost countries than in Ireland no matter what the betting tax is REDUCED to.So I forget about any hope of getting 4500 jobs from that. Just look at similar concept Industry this week like Airline repair company that closed yesterday and another factory in Limerick they all blamed the high cost of operating here as the main reason for closure.
I really think as a bookmaker association you be better off building up your image with the customer and think of measures you can all do together to get customers back into your shops and bring a bit of atmosphere back into them than hoping for miracles from the goverment. :D
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**GY....Just look at all the businesses that pay VAT.... They don't pay that on the profit they might make. There is nothing unusual about paying a tax of any sorts on a business output, rather than off a profit. All thats unusual is the name Tax, Levy, Vat, etc Actually I imagine there is very few companies who do ONLY pay tax on actual profits..Cheers
Bless nowhere in the article does Mrs Byrne say that the 4500 jobs will be created by the opening of new shops.
These jobs mainly will come from companies coming into Ireland that are currently in other countries.
Irishbookmaker your surely barking up the wrong tree with that one. Call Centres are more likely to be found in low cost countries than in Ireland no matter what the betting tax is REDUCED to.So I forget about any hope of getting 4500 jobs from that. Just look at similar concept Industry this week like Airline repair company that closed yesterday and another factory in Limerick they all blamed the high cost of operating here as the main reason for closure.
I really think as a bookmaker association you be better off building up your image with the customer and think of measures you can all do together to get customers back into your shops and bring a bit of atmosphere back into them than hoping for miracles from the goverment. :D
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**GY....Just look at all the businesses that pay VAT.... They don't pay that on the profit they might make. There is nothing unusual about paying a tax of any sorts on a business output, rather than off a profit. All thats unusual is the name Tax, Levy, Vat, etc Actually I imagine there is very few companies who do ONLY pay tax on actual profits..Cheers
Yet again Blessington in your quest to appear knowlegable you shoot yourself in the foot.Businesses who charge VAT add it on to their selling price to the customer i.e. when you buy petrol the VAT is included in the price you pay.These businesses can recoup the VAT they are chagred by offseting it against the VAT received from their customer and paying the balance to the Revenue.Bookmakers cannot recoup the VAT they pay on their costs.
Then again what would you expect from someone anyone who was unable at the outset to differentiate between the 1% Income Levy and the 1% increase in Betting Duty...
Then again what would you expect from someone anyone who was unable at the outset to differentiate between the 1% Income Levy and the 1% increase in Betting Duty...
TOLMI...Whether a customer pays a expense directly or indirectly he still the one that pays it.
Do you really think Airlines didn't charge for carrying your bags until the budget airlines started it.
No don't worry whether a customers pays up front or its just slipped somewhere..He still pays. :(
Do you really think Airlines didn't charge for carrying your bags until the budget airlines started it.
No don't worry whether a customers pays up front or its just slipped somewhere..He still pays. :(
Think you forget that its the bookmaker pays the levy or else you are more clueless than I thought.
TOLMI...It must have made you JIGGY to read Waldron reports on e/w realeased last week where he found that prices on 16 runners fields where WORSE VALUE compared to a 15 runner field with only each way terms on the first three.
In other words when Bookies see there profit margins been reduced by paying out the extra 4th place on a 16 runner race compared to a 15 runner one they react by getting the punter who bets win only in these races to pay for it rather than they themselves meeting the cost.
I'm sure the levy will be the same its ME the poor auld punter will pay it for you in the long run. Sure it now turns out the fella Lord Donughue the Chair of the Starting Price Regulatory Commssion who increase OVEROUNDS by 16% in 2006 is working as paid consultant for no other than our paddys.:0
And more good news there for YOUR MEMBERS its anticipated in the next few years SP OVEROUNDS are to RISE further accord to the report released last week on the Internet.
I can see why now paddys is still on the look out for new shops..... :^0 Inside information "how are you"...... :^0 Cheers
In other words when Bookies see there profit margins been reduced by paying out the extra 4th place on a 16 runner race compared to a 15 runner one they react by getting the punter who bets win only in these races to pay for it rather than they themselves meeting the cost.
I'm sure the levy will be the same its ME the poor auld punter will pay it for you in the long run. Sure it now turns out the fella Lord Donughue the Chair of the Starting Price Regulatory Commssion who increase OVEROUNDS by 16% in 2006 is working as paid consultant for no other than our paddys.:0
And more good news there for YOUR MEMBERS its anticipated in the next few years SP OVEROUNDS are to RISE further accord to the report released last week on the Internet.
I can see why now paddys is still on the look out for new shops..... :^0 Inside information "how are you"...... :^0 Cheers
Does Lord D tell them who's going to win ?
Can you email me his number ?
mail; blesshastoomuchtimeonhishands@eircom.net
Can you email me his number ?
mail; blesshastoomuchtimeonhishands@eircom.net
Any1 know if there is still a Hills shop in Limk or are they all closed? Only 1 showin up on the shop locator is in Tralee now :0
The shop on the end of Broad street by the river is still open. it was the only shop without any close competition
Blessington you would not get 300 ew at 8to1 if you visited 5 shops not a mind trying to get it on in one shop
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