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That is true Galwayman, it would be a huge blow, no doubt
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It just goes to show its hard to buy success. Very rarely do you see J P bring one through from a bumper to a good horse.
I really think he should upgrade his trainers and give Noel Meade and Willie Mullins a lot more horses. Noel Meade is the man!!!! |
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i think that boots madden is a master with a lot of the horses he has acquired...........plenty of them are rejects from jonjos, yet boots is able to get them to win races and what i really like about him is that when he gets a horses into form he is able to maintain that horses form for quite a long time
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Wins Now the perfect example of that, won me a packet at Navan and seems to be a decent animal as well..
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Some would take a more cynical view of having a horse in each of many yards.
If it were me I'd be disappointed with the lack of star performers and promising youngsters, relative to the numbers. |
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Disclosure - very nice horse imo
Big chance tomorrow I'd hope?? |
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how many trainers actually benefit from a JP horse regardless of ability of horse or trainer ??
He certainly operates like a charity. As somebody posted earlier "the trainer needs the horse " |
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To my mind Jp is one big mystery. who knows what his reasoning is for having so many poor horses. i dont doubt theres a method to his madness all the same
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he bought a good point to point last year but I've forgotten its name?
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Is it Stoneville you are thinking of? He was killed in a fall at Thurles in November.
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no it finished around 6th or 7th on its first bumper race
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53 runners in the British Isles last week and not a winner among them!!
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You'd be inclined to forgive that stat if they were all with the same trainer.
I've lost a packet in 2007 so far backing JP's. |
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THE FULL extent of JP McManus' philanthropic activity have been revealed for the first time this week, with documents obtained by the Limerick Leader showing that he has directed more than 17 million to charity in the last three years. And this is aside from the 31 million raised through the JP McManus Invitational Pro-Am in 2005.
Accounts seen by the Limerick Leader show that the JP McManus Charitable Foundation Limited, which has been in existence since 2000, donated a total of 10,728,275 to charities last year. In the past three years - excluding 2009 - a total of 17.3m has been donated to charities in Limerick and across the globe through this foundation, with over j3m going directly to worthy causes in his home county. According to the foundation's accounts, 2,459,643 was donated to charity in 2007, while 4,141,725 was received by charities in Limerick and across the world in 2006. The two largest allocations of funds last year were to the All-Ireland Scholarship Fund (j6.3m) and the Paddy Harrington golf scholarships (j2m), which was set up in memory of the famous golfer Padraig Harrington's father, Paddy. St Gabriel's Centre in Limerick received the next highest allocation of 312,000 for children with special needs. This August, Mr McManus' daughter, Kilmallock resident Sue-Ann Foley, a 29-year-old business executive, was appointed a director of the company. Ms Foley's appointment was approved by the existing board members, which includes her father, mother Noreen McManus, as well as Declan Moylan, who works with Mr McManus; Labour deputy Jan O'Sullivan, solicitor Gordon Holmes and Gerry Boland, an accountant, and a director of PriceWaterhouseCoopers Services and Limerick Enterprise Network Limited. Deputy O'Sullivan, who has been on the board since its establishment, said they have clear terms of reference in deciding who receives funding. The board of the foundation meets several times each year, and just this week began examining 40 projects. However, Deputy O'Sullivan said it would be reasonable to expect that donations given this year could be less than the 10.7m divided last year, due to the current climate. She added that the board members are "distributing the money on behalf of JP McManus" and "ensure that money is being spent well, and is value for money". The foundation's office is based at Bishopsgate, Henry Street - in the same office as Mr Holmes' legal practice. The directors' report for the year ending December 31, 2008, showed the company had total assets of 48.5m, total losses of 17.2m, and 19m in the bank and at hand. The Foundation's funds have been lodged with AIB, EBS and the Bank of Scotland. The accounts state that Mr McManus had advanced 600,000 by way of a loan to the company in 2003, which was still owed to Mr McManus in 2008. Last year he donated 6m to the company, which also benefited from an investment income of 2.7m, which was up slightly from 2007. The accounts, dating back to 2006, show that the businessman has made major contributions to life in Limerick. In 2006 he donated 6,000 to the Gavin and Millie Fund, the two young Moyross children who were horrifically burned in a petrol bomb attack, which shocked the nation. In the same year he donated 60,000 to the Fr Gerry Daly Christmas food appeal, and 30,000 to the Blue Box Creative Learning school in Limerick, which strives to reach out to young people in danger of dropping out of the educational system. The foundation's mission is to provide relief from poverty and deprivation, promote training and education, provide comfort and care to the terminally ill, alleviate distress in the areas of drug addiction, human rights, sexual and physical abuse, among other objectives. At least he's nt afraid to put his hand in his pocket! Fair play to him imo |
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yea fair play, his money has touched the lives of many
Even if u had ten million in ur account ud have everthing u want. so what would u do with the other e700million. |
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Do you not think that, relative to his wealth, he should be giving more away? I`d like to think i would.
He does however, without doubt, deserve a lot more success with his horses. If you look at how lucky some owners are with just a smattering of beasts (Jim Lewis, Archie O`Leary and Terry Warner spring to mind) it must gall him how much he puts into finding just one star! I sincerely hope he finds one soon before his money runs out too! |
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Michael O Leary pays tax in Ireland. He deserves a lot of credit for doing so as this is optional for the very wealthy. JP is entitled to organise his affairs as he does but his charitable endeavours and those of Denis O Brien ( trap etc) should have a *(without tax) beside them.
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It almost amazes me when I see fellas trumping the likes of McManus and in particular O Brien who is the lowest form going IMO.
At least McManus made his own money even if most of it was on the back of stroking others. O Brien was handed a fortune and while he deserves credit for mining it he deserves every insult for absconding without paying tax on it. His views on the matter are quite clear. He feels he is better placed to decide how to dole out his fortune rather then thje Government of the day. That is fair enough in my view but his refusal to show his accounts just marks him down as a wrong one in my view. Let him show us how he looks after the less fortunate and then he can spout his big mouth off about paying 1/2 of the Giovannis Trapotonis's salary |
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http://www.racingpost.com/news/horse-racing/john-p-mcmanus-auteuil-france-rock-noir-part-of-five-timer-for-mcmanus/653937/international/
Maybe this animal will get" the sundance kid" back in the big time. |
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Has be bought Dunguib as well now. Jeez he does want all the marbles. Does he not have enough top class hurdlers at the moment ?
Hope he leaves the horse with Fenton |
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I see that`s reported on the racing forum but nothing about it anywhere else. Who could blame him? Some engine.
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Fenton quashes Dunguib McManus sale rumours
By Jessica Lamb12.22PM 17 NOV 2009 PHILIP FENTON on Tuesday dismissed rumours that leading owner J P McManus had bought Supreme Novices' Hurdle favourite Dunguib. Claims were made on an internet forum that owners Daniel Harnett and Lil Lawlor had received hefty offers after Dunguib's effortless Punchestown victory on Saturday and that new connections would be revealed on Tuesday. However, Fenton did not hesitate when questioned, saying: "Not at all. Nobody has bought Dunguib, I don't know who has come up with this idea." |
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Those Fentons will extract top dollar I hope.
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This simpering adulation of McManus is cloying in the extreme.
But it's so typical of so many Irish people who find possession of large amounts of money somehow intrinsically admirable. It's this kind of attitude that has largely contributed to the country being the god-forsaken **.hole it is today... a country of blighted values and skewed priorities. As I drive around the place I encounter roads that you wouldn't expect to find in Chad , I end up in places where broadband provision is non-existent ( but hey -we're gonna be leaders in the ''smart economy'' LOL) , I pass national schools that are barely fit to be refugee holding camps etc.etc. Oh God , I do so hope that Mr Mcmanus will find the success ''he deserves'' !? Let us all pray that the great tax-exile may be lucky enough to buy some super champions soon so that ......so that what ? Who should give a flying f.uck about whether the distinguished would-be mini-philanthropist ever has another winner or not ? Oh yes , the slavish idolaters who care about the fortunes of billionaires -that's who . |
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Succinctly expressed.
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vubiant, while i agree with most of your statement, im just wondering and im open to correction but does mcmanus not live and make his money outside the state.
unlike other exiles who have made the bulk of their money in the state but chose to live elsewhere for tax reasons. |
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Fair play to JP for what he does in the game but to be honest I bet you he doesnt even know half of the horses he owns!!
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Well said Vubiant. The wealthiest people in this country, with one or two exceptions like Sean Quinn, employ hardly anyone, have contributed to destroying the economy through property and other speculation, have corrupted the state, don't pay tax, and are treated like Victorian Viceroys when they decide to come back for a golf tournament or a race meeting. The roads may be like Chad but the ruling class is more like Zaire or Nigeria.
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The reason this country is gone down the **te.r is cause of goverment not because Mcmanus makes his money outside of Ireland.
look at the many ways goverment waste money at least his donations go directly to the causes. Ireland would be alot better country if it had another 100 JPs,exciled or non, more the power to him! |
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Ballaman - there may well be some obscure technical reasons to justify your comment . I don't pretend to have any detailed knowledge of the culture of the super-rich employing accountants to exploit and play clever games with tax loopholes .McManus was described as a tax-exile by a staff writer in the Sunday Business Post last March and I reckon they should know something about these matters.
Of course we might ask why this system is set up like this and tolerated at all . The answer isn't too hard to find. The rich can buy politicians ( especially in Fianna Fail who virtuall own power in Ireland now) and politicians look after their benevolent pals and cronies -as any men of honour surely would. Thick as thieves and all that For instance last spring in a Sunday Independent piece ( who runs the SI ?) McManus was quoted as follows -speaking in Limerick before the drooling throng who hope a few more lucrative crumbs will be thrown their way from the great man's table .....Mc Manus stated that Brian Cowen should be given the chance to get Ireland out of its economic difficulties and went on '' I think WE are in good hands and WE'LL leave it to THEM ''. This is laughable stuff. Apart from the blatant propaganda of of the S Ind [subtext ''Great rich man supports B Cowen so be suitably impressed ] one wonders who the WE are that McManus refers to ? Is he in the same boat as the rest of us ? Are we assured of his solidarity in these trying times ? Will he re-surface a few more GAA pitches to show his heart is in the right place.? As for the THEM -we know who they are ....and he is more one of ''THEM ''than one of ''WE ''. |
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Vubiant again i agree with most of your comments , esp regarding that comic that was once a newspaper, its just a pity that its still such good seller and can influence so many people with its tripe.
calling him a tax exile is harsh , if everyone who earns money in another country and returns home regularly is a tax exile then there are alot of them around. to me a tax exile is someone who normally works in ireland or gains their income from ireland and leaves the country to avoid paying tax here. from what i can see, mcmanus works and lives in geneva and because of his wealth can return more often then most, to my eyes he enjoys his racing ( i dont agree with his policy of buying up the best juveniles) and he puts alot of his money into the sport as well as giving alot back to the country. yes Vubiant money will open alot of doors to you and the networks you subsequently move in will open more doors to you, thats the way its always been. that been said FF have brought this network sysyem to a new low over the years and i really hope that they will over time be brought to pay for their doings. |
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And I thought I was a bitter!
What`s the title of this thread vubiant? It`s "as an owner", not "as an abundantly wealthy person". I`m expressing an opinion based purely on the fact that he spends an inordinate amount of his cash on a sport I appreciate, so I stand by my assertion that he deserves more success, comparitively speaking. I`d imagine there are dozens of similarly affluent Irishmen who contribute far less to our society than he does. And where his wealth is garnered is not my concern. It`s highly likely it`s no more dubious than the pseudo wealth accumulated by many people you and I know. And please don`t accuse me of opining a typically Oirish attitude in turning a blind eye to wrongdoing. It wouldn`t be further removed from my personal ideologies. I detest our heirarchy and elite for bringing my country to it`s knees. The same people who Mr McManus praises and supports, and have created the havoc than will ensue for many years to come. In this instance however, I`m merely separating "the donor" from "the owner". You can also rest assured, I neither adore nor pray for any man on Earth. |
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Enjoyable reading guys...sorry to butt in but what is it that JP does in geneva?
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He is a forex trader in Geneva mainly but has interests in a number of areas. Basically a multi strategy hedge fund focussing on forex.
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Giant Strides - I'm afraid you have developed a severe strain of paranoia .
I hope you shrug this off fairly quickly as it is an extremely debilitating mental state and furthermore makes normal discourse almost impossible to conduct . I didn't name anyone in my posts and I certainly didn't ''accuse'' you of anything. In fact I'm I'm sure many forumites will find your concern for Mr Mc Manus' fortunes ''as an owner'' quite touching. I hope you can cope with the fact that I won't be one of them . |
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Giant strides, based on the money that he has ploughed back into the business and given the number of horses that he has in training you would have to say that the success has been limited.
i suppose it shows that in NH at least that money cant buy you sucess and that luck is a huge factor in buying the right horse and getting it to the right trainer who gets that right distance and right amount of training into it. even with the very best of animals you still need alot of luck with training/injuries etc. Vubiant just because i admire mcmanus for makinghuge amounts of money doesnt mean that i hang on his every word, yes there are lots of people like that but i am not one of them.i am quiet capable of making up my own mind and of changing it again as facts come to light. i hope you arent one of the typical begrudgers that cant stand to see others doing well for themselves. |
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I`ve coped with plenty thanks and I`m not afraid to admit I`m a bit paranoid. I have many good reasons for this" debilitating mental state" as you put it. It`s not ideal but in many cases it`s justified and it doesn`t keep me up at night. Either does thinking of McManuses horses.
I know you didn`t mention names but I think your reaction to my reply proved you were inferring me amongst others for lauding him. Anyway, what does it matter? It`s not worthy of any further debate. I respect your opinion. Not sure you respect others. |
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Anyone know why McManus has only one horse with WP Mullins (Arbor Supreme) ?
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That's fair enough GS ...there are many facets of the issue you raised by posting this thread . I would love to tease them all out in a calm philosophical way but we both know that a sports forum -or indeed any forum -is hardly a suitable vehicle for comprehensive examination of complex topics.
I know also we all love**ging each other off betimes and casting verbal barbs out of a sense of playful mischief . That's fine -no one comes to blows and most of it blows away like froth. One can say that none of it matters a great deal in the end -and there is a sense in which that's true. The day will come when we and our temporary controversies and shenanigans won't even be a memory. But while we're here on earth I think there are a few areas that do somehow matter . One is the issue of life and death . That's why I have striven to oppose those who have supported violent murderous campaigns of the IRA and its satellites. [It's also a reason,incidentally , why I remain disturbed and regretful about the level of abortion that has come to exist in society.] Another is , broadly , the matter of social justice. That's why I oppose the nefarious politico-financial nexus which has caused so much calamitous suffering and loss to hundreds of thousands of ordinary Irish citizens. The main members of that nexus are known and can be listed.. Without claiming to be exhaustive I would itemise the following (in no order of importance ).... ..the greedy developers who have ravaged city and country ...the corrupt officials and local politicians who allowed the marauding to continue ...the bankers and financiers whose only raison d'etre is shareholder profit and personal gain whatever the social cost Over-arching all of those scoundrels however looms the Fianna Fáil party who have been power for 220 of the last 22 years . From a line starting with the execrable Haughey , through the pathetic Ahern and that clown McCreevy on to the hapless Cowen -they have put in place the legislative framework that facilitated the financial vultures . They also wilfully neglected their duty of care by failing to exert any adequate tutelage and regulation over the construction , planning and finance sectors. We don't ''find ourselves in a recession '' . We were plunged into a recession as a result of deliberate policymaking , criminal neglect and lack of political integrity. The selfishness and stupidity of those charged with the public welfare are breathtaking to contemplate and infuriating to behold. Now Mr J P McManus may not be personally implicated in any of this but the fact is he's really one of them . He belongs firmly in the ranks of speculators and financial whizzkids who get their kicks out of playing real life monopoly with money and commodities to rack up huge profits . The fact that McManus gives a few million here and there to various sporting (and ,of course, medical -looks extra good) causes doesn't impress me at all . It's only equivalent to me giving a few hundred. In fact many people undoubtedly give proportionately more to charities in Ireland than McManus and there's no fuss or trumpeting about it. So no - I cannot admire McManus either because he is ultra rich or gives ostentatios public donations to various groups or buys and runs a lot of horses around the place. A few final points . Possession of vast wealth is surely not inherently admirable . Many are wealthy because they inherited it . Others are wealthy because they were lucky . In assessing the moral worth or social virtues of any human being I discount the size of personal fortune . It's of as much relevance to me as the colour of their eyes. On the matter of respecting opinions . I don't respect all opinions equally -that would be an absurd position. I know enough about the world to see that some opinions are well argued and thought out and worthy of respect even if one disagrees with either the premises or conclusions they imply . Other opinions are plainly worthless -lacking any factual basis or logical coherence . Why should I respect them ? |
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This is almost unbelievable -one can't write the word n-e-f-a-r-i-o-u-s. !! ??
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