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21 Sep 26
18:53
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10 Sep 09
TYIA
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I treid to post it but it will not let me
To sum it up
Matt won lots of money using betfair, betfair has diminished , betfair could be good again but without any actual solutions
To sum it up
Matt won lots of money using betfair, betfair has diminished , betfair could be good again but without any actual solutions
same here...1st post that's went to moderator.
But I will try to take you to the main event
Winners and losers
More vulgarity around figures. I am reluctant but it’s necessary. Patrick Veitch is a great gambler, clever and sharp. In his book, Enemy Number One, he spoke about profits in the £10 million range (God only knows where he’s at now), an inspiration to me, and now I’m not far off that number on my Bf account; even closer with other gambling accounts I’ve had down the years.
However, I’m now wondering how I can add to those earnings or if it’s time to move on to greener pastures. Bf is more a place for the needy and the greedy these days, and I don’t consider myself either of those, although probably more needy than greedy.
Back to those figures. In 2021, I turned over around £20 million to win just shy of £1 million, a really sound year, but to highlight the ongoing drop-off I reckon I’ll be lucky to trade a quarter of those numbers, to win just shy of around £200,000, in 2026 – and that’s if I finish the year with a strong performance. I have hefty expenses to pay out of that, as well.
But I will try to take you to the main event
Winners and losers
More vulgarity around figures. I am reluctant but it’s necessary. Patrick Veitch is a great gambler, clever and sharp. In his book, Enemy Number One, he spoke about profits in the £10 million range (God only knows where he’s at now), an inspiration to me, and now I’m not far off that number on my Bf account; even closer with other gambling accounts I’ve had down the years.
However, I’m now wondering how I can add to those earnings or if it’s time to move on to greener pastures. Bf is more a place for the needy and the greedy these days, and I don’t consider myself either of those, although probably more needy than greedy.
Back to those figures. In 2021, I turned over around £20 million to win just shy of £1 million, a really sound year, but to highlight the ongoing drop-off I reckon I’ll be lucky to trade a quarter of those numbers, to win just shy of around £200,000, in 2026 – and that’s if I finish the year with a strong performance. I have hefty expenses to pay out of that, as well.
So If I'm reading this right-MW is thinking of jacking it in as he's just gonna make just under 200 large (sterling)in 2026.
Wowsers
Wowsers
Turnover of 20 million a year is almost £54,800 a day.
TtT don't shoot the messenger.
I swear i haven't doctored the figures
I swear i haven't doctored the figures
does he mention feeds or drones?
turning over is meaningless. you can do that with a grand
turning over is meaningless. you can do that with a grand
Those of us betting from exchange shops, with zero appetite to travel up and down Britain paying racecourses upwards of £200 a seat to sit in their boxes with picture feeds, would send FaceTimers to relay the pictures to our office. Primitive stuff, but we could still make money – good money in some years. Racecourses would have security seek out and throw out anyone relaying pictures back to in-running punters, trying to protect their ‘box-renting’ sideline. It was a diabolical set of circumstances and something that should have been spoken about much more back in the day.
Now, every in-running punter worth their salt is betting off drones, which is costing most of them – not all, because there is a sub-group with a slight delay – anywhere between £300 and £500 a week, on top of the hefty commission, when that money should really be going into the markets.
It’s a long story, but players within the industry should have taken the drone situation under their wing by now – the fact we still run our own ‘co-op’ is a poor indicator of where racing and Betfair are on the subject. They are the big bottom-line winners, but I’ll finish on the topic with a thought. We have lost a number of drones – there’s £20,000 worth stuck up a tree somewhere around Exeter racecourse – and what happens if there is an accident when all racecourse groups have been asked to participate in making it a safer space, but refuse to engage and take responsibility around an activity they all profit from?
We’re all betting into Betfair’s markets and they all feed off the profits, however big or small.
Now, every in-running punter worth their salt is betting off drones, which is costing most of them – not all, because there is a sub-group with a slight delay – anywhere between £300 and £500 a week, on top of the hefty commission, when that money should really be going into the markets.
It’s a long story, but players within the industry should have taken the drone situation under their wing by now – the fact we still run our own ‘co-op’ is a poor indicator of where racing and Betfair are on the subject. They are the big bottom-line winners, but I’ll finish on the topic with a thought. We have lost a number of drones – there’s £20,000 worth stuck up a tree somewhere around Exeter racecourse – and what happens if there is an accident when all racecourse groups have been asked to participate in making it a safer space, but refuse to engage and take responsibility around an activity they all profit from?
We’re all betting into Betfair’s markets and they all feed off the profits, however big or small.
Liquidity is everything to a betting exchange. When weight of money encourages bettors into markets, allowing punters of all sizes to do exactly what they want, that’s when it works best – and Betfair had it all in the early years of the 21st century. There were lots of vibrant markets, when you can get a fair whack on, pre-event and in-running. It ruled the roost, not just from a person-to-person perspective, but it gave the impression of a one-stop shop – you could do a lot of your business on there without the need to go elsewhere.
Workable levels of commission for their customers, no liquidity issues, an all-round healthy outlook, with good customer service. Utopia.
Workable levels of commission for their customers, no liquidity issues, an all-round healthy outlook, with good customer service. Utopia.
Then, wallop. In mid-to-late 2008, premium charges crept into Betfair’s business model, a model that became more punishing as time went by. All good things must come to an end – and, in this moment, they did. Immediately, things became a lot tougher: more arduous, less fun, and you really needed to work hard to find more of an edge. It wasn’t like picking up money off the floor anymore.
As a winning Betfair punter for the guts of a quarter of a century, I understand premium charges are a necessary evil, and while most of us begrudge paying them at the levels we do, there was an annoying acceptance that we should be making a strong contribution. Fair’s fair, an ecosystem will only survive and flourish if you have balance, and in Betfair’s world that balance was off.
It was put to me by one of the good guys from the old Betfair days, a very senior employee, that for every £100 a proven loser was losing, the winners were taking £80 with Betfair on an unfair slice of the cake, when it was also costing them to recruit losers to the site. That’s when the mallet came out and clobbered the living daylights out of us, with a hefty charge of 40-plus per cent.
That kind of steadier caused some punters to raise the white flag. Others just decided to create ways to avoid the charge altogether, very successfully in some cases, but certainly after 2010 you began to see a drop-off in numbers of people making a proper living from Betfair, with only the best players keeping their heads above water. It messes with the balance and we’ve lost those crucial levels of liquidity ever since.
As a winning Betfair punter for the guts of a quarter of a century, I understand premium charges are a necessary evil, and while most of us begrudge paying them at the levels we do, there was an annoying acceptance that we should be making a strong contribution. Fair’s fair, an ecosystem will only survive and flourish if you have balance, and in Betfair’s world that balance was off.
It was put to me by one of the good guys from the old Betfair days, a very senior employee, that for every £100 a proven loser was losing, the winners were taking £80 with Betfair on an unfair slice of the cake, when it was also costing them to recruit losers to the site. That’s when the mallet came out and clobbered the living daylights out of us, with a hefty charge of 40-plus per cent.
That kind of steadier caused some punters to raise the white flag. Others just decided to create ways to avoid the charge altogether, very successfully in some cases, but certainly after 2010 you began to see a drop-off in numbers of people making a proper living from Betfair, with only the best players keeping their heads above water. It messes with the balance and we’ve lost those crucial levels of liquidity ever since.
In-running betting has long been the place where I mostly linger – in fact, you can’t really talk about exchange betting without the in-running element. It’s part of the fabric.
To play the in-running game, you must have a raceday feed that allows you to play as close to live as possible. It’s always been that way. Often, I’ve suffered from being behind the ‘live’ pic feed; at other times I’ve enjoyed an edge.
For example, for years racecourses provided boxes for punters to take advantage of speedy pictures, bringing fortunes into their coffers, all while owners were running for a level of prize-money that was, quite frankly, embarrassing.
Strangely, I can remember some TV presenters mocking guys walking into racecourses to use boxes to do their daily business, when they were viewed by some as the great unwashed. I have come across some right wrong ‘uns in this game, but that sort of labelling has always annoyed me, as most people betting and making their living on Betfair are normal folk. Some of those lads have contributed greatly to our sport through ownership, and while it’s vulgar to talk figures, where do you think the three million quid I have paid Betfair in commission has gone? Some of it will have filtered down to our great sport, and I know I have willingly spent fortunes on racehorses along the way, as well.
To play the in-running game, you must have a raceday feed that allows you to play as close to live as possible. It’s always been that way. Often, I’ve suffered from being behind the ‘live’ pic feed; at other times I’ve enjoyed an edge.
For example, for years racecourses provided boxes for punters to take advantage of speedy pictures, bringing fortunes into their coffers, all while owners were running for a level of prize-money that was, quite frankly, embarrassing.
Strangely, I can remember some TV presenters mocking guys walking into racecourses to use boxes to do their daily business, when they were viewed by some as the great unwashed. I have come across some right wrong ‘uns in this game, but that sort of labelling has always annoyed me, as most people betting and making their living on Betfair are normal folk. Some of those lads have contributed greatly to our sport through ownership, and while it’s vulgar to talk figures, where do you think the three million quid I have paid Betfair in commission has gone? Some of it will have filtered down to our great sport, and I know I have willingly spent fortunes on racehorses along the way, as well.
There are many reasons why punters are struggling to stay in the game on Betfair. Liquidity is always going to be numero uno. But some shrewd heads would argue the circumstances around affordability checks are the real death knell. Even Andrew Black, the brilliant founder of Betfair, was asked to provide statements, most likely by a junior member of the Betfair team. This is a fella that has made a fortune and can lose a fortune without it touching the sides.
So where does all that leave exchange punters now? Unfortunately, those I speak to are either worried about the future, looking for something else to do, or just taking things day by day, waiting for its end or continuing on a road of gradual decline. Nobody is hopeful things are changing for the better anytime soon.
Yet I still believe that, with solid steering, Betfair could become huge again. Its owners, Flutter, are a big deal, with a number of businesses and a workforce keen to impress in areas that are growing, like predictions markets. Betfair, under their umbrella, feels a bit like yesterday’s news, which is massively deflating for long-standing customers like me.
Not since 2006 have we seen a real influx of exchange bettors, jumping in to see what all the fuss was about. Many of them failed to get the trip, but plenty of that generation from the goldrush are still here and making six figures a year as they approach middle age. Others from the original 2000 cohort are either brown bread or heading towards the exit.
But we now have a younger generation of punters and I’d love them to be able to experience that incredibly exciting vibe that Betfair gave us in those early days. It was a magical time to be a punter back then and it really did change my life forever. And whether you’re an exchange punter or not – or even a punter at all – we have to accept that racing won’t survive without that kind of vibrant gambling landscape.
Yet I still believe that, with solid steering, Betfair could become huge again. Its owners, Flutter, are a big deal, with a number of businesses and a workforce keen to impress in areas that are growing, like predictions markets. Betfair, under their umbrella, feels a bit like yesterday’s news, which is massively deflating for long-standing customers like me.
Not since 2006 have we seen a real influx of exchange bettors, jumping in to see what all the fuss was about. Many of them failed to get the trip, but plenty of that generation from the goldrush are still here and making six figures a year as they approach middle age. Others from the original 2000 cohort are either brown bread or heading towards the exit.
But we now have a younger generation of punters and I’d love them to be able to experience that incredibly exciting vibe that Betfair gave us in those early days. It was a magical time to be a punter back then and it really did change my life forever. And whether you’re an exchange punter or not – or even a punter at all – we have to accept that racing won’t survive without that kind of vibrant gambling landscape.
make him right on just about everything sadly...
i always thought the major decline in liquidity happened when the drones and gps came in ( about 6-8 years ago ? ) . not sure if that coincides with affordability checks as well though .
if they are all covering their exes on the drones with such illiquid markets i would fall over
i had a go and couldnt justify it and im really good
actually im not. but i dont think everyone else is any good either and theres no money to win anyway
i was watching a drone in dobuy when it suddenly turned down and plummtted to earth. i was sitting in me chair 4000 miles away and started scrabbling around for me seatbelt, i was so involved. mental stuff. turns out the droner was being arrested by towelhead plod. shakemo doesnt like unauthorised flying machines
facetime was funny. you would be watching a wonky picture when someone would wobble in front of the camera with a tray of drinks and you would be screaming at the telly
i had a go and couldnt justify it and im really good
actually im not. but i dont think everyone else is any good either and theres no money to win anyway
i was watching a drone in dobuy when it suddenly turned down and plummtted to earth. i was sitting in me chair 4000 miles away and started scrabbling around for me seatbelt, i was so involved. mental stuff. turns out the droner was being arrested by towelhead plod. shakemo doesnt like unauthorised flying machines
facetime was funny. you would be watching a wonky picture when someone would wobble in front of the camera with a tray of drinks and you would be screaming at the telly
its because of the likes williams ,that although ive punted horses for over 50 yrs ,it wouldnt bother me if horse racing finished at midnight,to williams and co they dont need horse racing a few pigs,flies, even humans racing each other and they,d still be trying to find out the result a few ecs before the mugs ,their basically thieves,the number one golden rule in punting used to be IF YOU CAN WIN YOU CANT LOSE,betfair has enabled the likes of williams and his thieving mates to steal off people who cant win, HE, THE EQUIVALENT OF STEALING CHIPS OF A TRAMP ON THE PARK BENCH
Showing your stupidity again 1stp, the adage was/is if you cannot win you cannot lose. hth
Does everyone remember when bookmakers prices were all different from Betfair ? !, you could literally get 20/1 16/1 with the bookies the night before racing when the Betfair price crashed and the bookies didn`t fall in line until the morning !
Now as soon as the Betfair price drops by 1/2 point the bookies will reduce their price within seconds.
Now as soon as the Betfair price drops by 1/2 point the bookies will reduce their price within seconds.
imagine feeling the need to stake/gamble £20 million
1st TP
if people are getting off their árses to secure an edge then so be it..its how the financial world operates daily.
if people are getting off their árses to secure an edge then so be it..its how the financial world operates daily.
harold_lloyd21 Sep 26 20:09Joined: 20 Apr 11 | Topic/replies: 708 | Blogger: harold_lloyd's blog
i always thought the major decline in liquidity happened when the drones and gps came in
absolutely.
i always thought the major decline in liquidity happened when the drones and gps came in
absolutely.
claims winnings of 200k in 2026..in running theres barely a fiver in a box bar the fav..cant win anything last 2f..blokes a genious.
1st time poster 21 Sep 26 20:14
enabled the likes of williams and his thieving mates to steal off people who cant win
ask yourself this..why do/did folks at home continue to play against those they know had a known and obvious advantage?
enabled the likes of williams and his thieving mates to steal off people who cant win
ask yourself this..why do/did folks at home continue to play against those they know had a known and obvious advantage?
claims winnings of 200k in 2026..in running theres barely a fiver in a box bar the fav..cant win anything last 2f..blokes a genius.
As you want to denigrate others for your own sly entertainment shafter it should be pointed out that he did not claim winnings of £200K in 2026, he said he would be lucky to do so and only if he had a strong finish to the year.
Rather different to what you try to portray? HTH
Rather different to what you try to portray? HTH
Matt Williams has long been the Racing Post's tame pro-punter to be wheeled out at Cheltenham and other festivals but if his edge is not his judgement of form but merely faster pictures, first from the Post's SIS feeds, through boxes and Facetime and now drones, then I'm not sure what he has to tell the rest of us that is any use.
Still his bank manager thinks he is doing something right.
Still his bank manager thinks he is doing something right.
why did folks at home continue to play
so called brilliant racereaders /layers /traders likewilliams for examle would have continued to play when un beknown,s to him for a period of time someone was using faster pics,getting faster information,been able to use it fater than him, how do we go from people supposedly defending horses racing , loving horse racing,trying to save horses ,LAMENTING LOSING DRONES IN A BUSH ?
so called brilliant racereaders /layers /traders likewilliams for examle would have continued to play when un beknown,s to him for a period of time someone was using faster pics,getting faster information,been able to use it fater than him, how do we go from people supposedly defending horses racing , loving horse racing,trying to save horses ,LAMENTING LOSING DRONES IN A BUSH ?
It might be that one of the biggest drivers in Betfair's decline is that the young and foolish are/were being drawn into crypto trading rather than exchange betting. No affordability checks, gaslighting and headline grabbing figures from social media trolls, and limitless liquidity.
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