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20 Jun 26
19:29
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according to kaan hughes in the rp. were winning 271000 going into the last.
.... Puts them about level on the week if correct.?
they laid 100k Illinois at 2/1, but not sure about earlier any earlier big bets
Took a lot on Saber Strike according to a report in the RP. Helped them get a bit back. I must admit I had a small bet on the nag which was rather stupid in hidsight. Just 2 runs prior to yesterday which he won but unbeaten records were buried every day at Ascot. Double Rush and Alfaraz plus place only Orthodox were my best results yesterday but a narrow defeat for Kalpana prevented a proper winning day. Very hard for mares/ fillies to beat colts at that level.
after a truly dreadful run, I won all of this years losses back and more. I was very lucky as 6 of my winners were in photos finishes - Bow, Limestone, Earth, Scandinavia, Causeway and Gio. It is a crazy game sometimes. I've hardly had a decent winner at a big meeting for months and months, numerous ante-post misfortunes then you get 5 days like that. Hope I can keep it going for a few months now.
good to hear of a turnaround DP. Did u bet in the 1979 Ebor ?
sorry my post was on the wrong thread. Apologies. I can barely talk after all the grog. No I was in the UAE then Howard
ta DP. think they are about 600k down on the week if stuff i've read in RP and simons tues to fri blog is accurate
If they took the 100k on Illinois, they prob finished up more or less where they were at the start of the day 800-900k in the soup. I honestly don't see how taking such big liabilities in top class racing is a profitable play. Maybe he makes enough on the slots/casino/sportsbook to cover the loses, but such big swings cant be good for the ticker.
Enjoy reading the betting reports but it's obviously not bookmaking.I think all the huge bets were Ballydoyle bar Bow Echo.Are they taking on someone like Tabor , do billionaires bother punting ? They probably do if they can get 100k on.
The expenses must be huge , 3 pitches ,10 staff maybe.Millionaires taking on billionaires.It will take a while to get this weeks losses back.
The expenses must be huge , 3 pitches ,10 staff maybe.Millionaires taking on billionaires.It will take a while to get this weeks losses back.
Spot on Frames Love to read Simon's Report on the business they do at the Tracks Personally I Think they are told just take anything and everything Bets they take are blind blowing Think the staff would have different idea's if they were doing the art of Bookmaking on There Own Hats off to the Brighton firm for giving it's All
I would not mind taking Arab princes big bets but I would not fancy my chances taking Tabor's big bets long term. It's not the amount going on a horse that's important it's who's money is it. Would you rather take bets from JP or Terry Ramsden?
frames is correct. More than one Tattersalls bookie has takan on Tabor and co. and gone out of business as a result.
One of these bookies alos bet at Walthamstow Dogs and, in the early 1990's, got taken at the track for £16k in a puppy race by, repoetedly, Gary Wilthsire. It was the final straw at the dogs for the bookie but he then decided to take on Tabor at the horses. Got wiped out inside a year.
It is exactly the same as playing poker with someone who is much, much wealthier than you are. Their deeper pcokers will be the difference.
OK, Ben at Star Sports has other business interests and a large propery portfolio so he will be OK but not at the tracks if he carries on like last week!
One of these bookies alos bet at Walthamstow Dogs and, in the early 1990's, got taken at the track for £16k in a puppy race by, repoetedly, Gary Wilthsire. It was the final straw at the dogs for the bookie but he then decided to take on Tabor at the horses. Got wiped out inside a year.
It is exactly the same as playing poker with someone who is much, much wealthier than you are. Their deeper pcokers will be the difference.
OK, Ben at Star Sports has other business interests and a large propery portfolio so he will be OK but not at the tracks if he carries on like last week!
The knight.
Was one them a former taxi was told at hq one of the lads had a bet they left it on the board.
Hope you are well.
Ronnie
Was one them a former taxi was told at hq one of the lads had a bet they left it on the board.
Hope you are well.
Ronnie
in the group 1.2,s their winning more just getting placed, a million down,gleeon more or le aid it the coolmore lad betting the big sums on AOB horses ,good luck THE LADS betting 10 loser,s on the trot
T & F was the firm, ronnie.
Hope you are well too.
Off to the Abbot in a minute.
Hope you are well too.
Off to the Abbot in a minute.
SFBTW.
Was Mark the taxi driver.
Hope you are well I am fine know sad to been a horrible start of the year.
Ronnie
Was Mark the taxi driver.
Hope you are well I am fine know sad to been a horrible start of the year.
Ronnie
twenty years ago yes. Things can change. They have. Never have the big non-handicaps in particular been in the hands of so few. The O'Briens & Gosden covers plenty. Then one or two really big yards. Makes it easier for punters even if you are not on the inside.
They said Ascot ring is dead....so a book that takes 300k and a275k...and a100k.thought it was all ab out balancing books with oncourse boys
Not for Star,freddie.
They know who they will beat in the long term.
The chances of them knowingly Laying Tabor are between slim and impossible
They know who they will beat in the long term.
The chances of them knowingly Laying Tabor are between slim and impossible
You would believe Santa lives on the moon tbh…..easily led……imo….
Like the 100k on grand national winner at 9/1....and then it just got shorter and shorter. So they couldn't lay it off
Aceform,who has abandoned yet another losing thread and is now giving advice
I've heard it suggested that the racecourse operation isn't entirely about making a profit. If they lay big bets on course there's plenty of mentions on tv and papers.
How many years did it take Gary Wiltshire to pay off the Frankie Saturday bonanza debts
don't think it was more than a few years freddie. Different situation though. You knew Wiltshire would make it back making books. Star something different because the really big punters aren't betting in handicaps.
He saw a chance to Lay a 14/1 chance in the morning at 6/4 and couldn't help himself
I can understand why Gary did it, he thought he was laying a 14/1 shot at 2/1 or 3/1, you only get so many chances in life and why not take them. I still don't think Pat Eddery was too busy on the 2nd.I am not saying he was right but he was making instant decisions.
When u was offered the credit they didn't expect to wait 4 years
He owed the Books and told them straight that he would pay and he did,eventually.
Know a couple guys who work in the Hove HQ the Star company which consists of a commercial property estate agents a company dealing with planning appeals and of course betting shops and on course bookmaking and on line bookmakers.
Apparently they have several well known footballers as customers who don't bet in 'bus fare' sums.Presumably because they can have a grand or so on without too much trouble.
They have the funds to still be adding good on course pitches which would still command a decent price.
The headquarters is a very large tall building in Hove not that far from the old small buildings in an industrial estate they used to rent when they started out just down the road.
So overall the company has done well from the days of a one man band betting at tracks like central park.
As regards Michael Tabor I remember him having a pitch at Hove dogs in the distant past but in his book Patrick Veitch stated that Tabor used to pay Veitch for his horse racing advice.
Mr Vietch is now on Tony Blooms horse racing team using his data approach methods and was on t.v.with him last week at Royal Ascot when Venetian Sun won.
This horse won a group one as a 2 yo and also as a 3yo which cost them just £252,000 but has won more than £800,000.
They purchased the horse at the Tattersalls Book 1 sale in October 2024 where Kia Joorabchian spent over £25 million and Sheikh Mohammed splashed out £23 million.
Who's the clever one Tabor or Bloom?
Apparently they have several well known footballers as customers who don't bet in 'bus fare' sums.Presumably because they can have a grand or so on without too much trouble.
They have the funds to still be adding good on course pitches which would still command a decent price.
The headquarters is a very large tall building in Hove not that far from the old small buildings in an industrial estate they used to rent when they started out just down the road.
So overall the company has done well from the days of a one man band betting at tracks like central park.
As regards Michael Tabor I remember him having a pitch at Hove dogs in the distant past but in his book Patrick Veitch stated that Tabor used to pay Veitch for his horse racing advice.
Mr Vietch is now on Tony Blooms horse racing team using his data approach methods and was on t.v.with him last week at Royal Ascot when Venetian Sun won.
This horse won a group one as a 2 yo and also as a 3yo which cost them just £252,000 but has won more than £800,000.
They purchased the horse at the Tattersalls Book 1 sale in October 2024 where Kia Joorabchian spent over £25 million and Sheikh Mohammed splashed out £23 million.
Who's the clever one Tabor or Bloom?
I was at Ascot that day and Pat and the other jocks definitely not busy and allowed Frankie to dominate
A Well respected bookmaker told me over 30 years ago they are 3 types of racecourse bookmakers.
Those who bet to figures
Those who have an opinion
Those who gamble
One of those in the end do there cash in.
Ronnie.
Those who bet to figures
Those who have an opinion
Those who gamble
One of those in the end do there cash in.
Ronnie.
If you're taking the one big bet which is 99% of your turnover on the race, you can't really bet to figures, since i assume hedging big sums back will mean shortening it taking a lower price to back it, meaning loss on the race regardless. Their USP is to take the big bets.
And i don't think Tabor is at the same level as Bloom/Veitch. Assuming Tabor is the big backer, the money seemed to come in for every single Coolmore shortie, rather than a selective approach.
And i don't think Tabor is at the same level as Bloom/Veitch. Assuming Tabor is the big backer, the money seemed to come in for every single Coolmore shortie, rather than a selective approach.
Veitch is a veritable Pygmy compared to Tabor in terms of betting
Seeing as most of the horses which Star took a pasting on last week were out of Ballydolye, it seems highly unlikely that the firm did NOT know it was Tabor and co. they were laying!
No, my guess is that Star operate a policy of laying to big sums when they think they can lay under the odds (under the odds as they see it). In other words, when they have the value - or believe they do.
Trouble is, the ability of Ballydoyle's horses are so well known to the trainer and owners that they will probably know more when value exists than Star do. I do not recall that stable leaving it behind too often when a gamble has taken place.
Now, of course, Star may well hedge away some of the big wagers to reduce liabilites - even when they have to take lesser odds than they laid at. This is something that Stephen Little used to do so he would not have to turn down his big hitting clients in the beiief that when the value, in his view, was with him, he would be OK.
There is also some merit, I suspect, that Star treat these reversals as loss leaders because it is good publicity.
Having said all that, though, the point is still valid that if you keep betting against people infinitely rcher than you it will end in tears. They can absorb their losses better than you. I also suspect that last week, even Star took to chasing a bit. Well down, they thought they were due a result or two and kept laying to big money - but it went againt them this time. Be interesting to see how they play the next few weeks of the season.
Now, as to the bookie at Walthamstow who quit the track because Wiltshire did him, and then took on Tabor in the horse racing rings. Yes, the bookie that Screaming Beneath the Waves mwentions, T and F were, I believe, taken out by Tabor on the horses. But it wasn't them at Walthamstow. They began betting there some time after the bookie I am talking about had quit.
For the life of me I cannot recall that bookies name but they used to bet at the other emd of the grandstand between Hutchinson and Murell. The guy was grey haired and a well established Tatts bookie.
The night Wiltshire did him for the £16k, he packed up his joint but left the tripod stand there with a white hankerchief tied to it! It was after that he was put out of business at the horses. I hope someone one here eventually reads this and knows the name.
BTW, it was said of T and F that one of the two lads on the joint had a very wealthy father who had made huge sums in the USA. The rumour was that when T and F had experienced a bad run,they would ask the father for a bale out and he would wire tham 250K! If all of that was true, then eventually even the father must have called time!
Lastly, I think Ronniw Rails is correct and one of the two lads on the T and F joint used to be a cabbie. If memory serves me correctly, they always wore smart caps (T and F, not cabbies).
Whatever the truth behind Star, Ballydoyle and T and F, these were great days where the non-betting members of society left us alone and did not sneer at 'gamblers' while, at the same time, trying to save us from ourselves!!!
No, my guess is that Star operate a policy of laying to big sums when they think they can lay under the odds (under the odds as they see it). In other words, when they have the value - or believe they do.
Trouble is, the ability of Ballydoyle's horses are so well known to the trainer and owners that they will probably know more when value exists than Star do. I do not recall that stable leaving it behind too often when a gamble has taken place.
Now, of course, Star may well hedge away some of the big wagers to reduce liabilites - even when they have to take lesser odds than they laid at. This is something that Stephen Little used to do so he would not have to turn down his big hitting clients in the beiief that when the value, in his view, was with him, he would be OK.
There is also some merit, I suspect, that Star treat these reversals as loss leaders because it is good publicity.
Having said all that, though, the point is still valid that if you keep betting against people infinitely rcher than you it will end in tears. They can absorb their losses better than you. I also suspect that last week, even Star took to chasing a bit. Well down, they thought they were due a result or two and kept laying to big money - but it went againt them this time. Be interesting to see how they play the next few weeks of the season.
Now, as to the bookie at Walthamstow who quit the track because Wiltshire did him, and then took on Tabor in the horse racing rings. Yes, the bookie that Screaming Beneath the Waves mwentions, T and F were, I believe, taken out by Tabor on the horses. But it wasn't them at Walthamstow. They began betting there some time after the bookie I am talking about had quit.
For the life of me I cannot recall that bookies name but they used to bet at the other emd of the grandstand between Hutchinson and Murell. The guy was grey haired and a well established Tatts bookie.
The night Wiltshire did him for the £16k, he packed up his joint but left the tripod stand there with a white hankerchief tied to it! It was after that he was put out of business at the horses. I hope someone one here eventually reads this and knows the name.
BTW, it was said of T and F that one of the two lads on the joint had a very wealthy father who had made huge sums in the USA. The rumour was that when T and F had experienced a bad run,they would ask the father for a bale out and he would wire tham 250K! If all of that was true, then eventually even the father must have called time!
Lastly, I think Ronniw Rails is correct and one of the two lads on the T and F joint used to be a cabbie. If memory serves me correctly, they always wore smart caps (T and F, not cabbies).
Whatever the truth behind Star, Ballydoyle and T and F, these were great days where the non-betting members of society left us alone and did not sneer at 'gamblers' while, at the same time, trying to save us from ourselves!!!
benkeith doesnt bail out although he might bale the cash
most of these races are group 1,s,.their not even betting the place prize money in small fields with multiple AOB entries, its the equivalent of a 50p bet to them,if they ran for peanuts we,d either see no bets or far higher than a 100g bets
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