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That Lydia Jon Pullen Interview
That Lydia Jon Pullen Interview
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Cider
Cider27 Jan 26 18:59Joined: 29 Aug 02 | Topic/replies: 66,957 | Blogger: Cider's blog That's what people on the ground determined GB. That the course was safe to race If a full ground survey is required (I'm sure there is a technical term ) which will likely take some days they couldn't possibly have known based on a 25 minute inspection that the course was safe. They took a punt. Fortunately it worked out. That does not justify the original decision. To assert it does merely demonstrates outcome bias. |
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Even maintaining the suitability and safety for racing of all-weather racing surfaces cannot be guaranteed at times.
Cider 11.21. Agreed. |
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Cider 27 Jan 26 18:59
That's what people on the ground determined GB. Cider, they did so under time restraint with little daylight remaining. As has been said, the fact he's then said that they need to have a proper look, would suggest the race should not have taken place. |
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I agree with that pp. Impossible to inspect every blade of grass on the course in between races. Therefore it was a judgement call between the participants, and those managing the race day on the course. It doesn't mean that another problem was impossible.
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If there's an unexplained hole on the course before the last at Catterick, which is a £3K-to-the-winner bumper or whatever, it's off.
But hey, it's Cheltenham, so we'll have a quick look and if 't seems alright we'll carry on  |
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GEORGE B nails it.
Of course the same procedure should operate in all circumstances but money talks. However the decision makes a mockery of the claim that "welfare is paramount". |
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It's nonsense what GB stated. I'm pretty sure I saw horses slipping in Fakenham once only for them to run another race and slipping again. They are often seen 'sanding' road crossings or dodgy ground at the gaffs, and railing off bits on occasion. What you don't have is an on course 'army' on hand to effectively change the course. But I don't think there's any evidence that gaffs give up mid meeting at the first sign of trouble. Cheltenham does have more means to deal with trouble. I'm happy to be convinced otherwise by cited examples.
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[i]The hole was found by racecourse staff putting back the turf after the race. That was being done all over the racecourse. There are staff posted at every obstacle and it is their responsibility to check the ground conditions after every race in their defined patch.
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Cider's analogy to roads was incomplete due to the omission that the roads should at least be safe to drive on, even if we accept the risk that people will die in accidents or due to dangerous driving.
On Saturday when Jon Pullin was notified of a hole on the course that you could stick your arm down, and he had no clue as to what had caused it, his attitude with welfare in mind should have been - I can't allow horses to race on this track until we know what has caused the hole in case it is something structural / more widespread. We now know that issue was not something that could have been identified from a quick glance around, and drainage experts have had to be called in to check the drainage system. They got away with it. |
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Cider 28 Jan 26 10:08
I'm happy to be convinced otherwise by cited examples. I can actually cite an example where an actual hole was discovered in the ground, and not the infamous Doncaster instance already cited: Haydock 1993 https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/racing-hole-swallows-haydock-meeting-1509207.html DISCOVERY of a hole in the ground two furlongs from the winning post caused the sudden abandonment of racing at Haydock yesterday. This afternoon's card has also been called off. Minutes before the third race was due to start, Alan Fyles, a groundsman, found the hole as he was treading down divots caused by runners in the first two races. 'All you could see was the hoof-print, but when Alan was treading a piece of earth down his foot went in,' Philip Arkwright, clerk of the course, said. Richard Hills and other jockeys saw Fyles probing the hole as they trotted past on the way to the start. 'Thank God for the groundstaff because we wouldn't have seen it,' Hills said later. 'He was lying down with his arm up to the shoulder in the ground. It was about 18 inches deep, but like a rabbit burrow because it went underneath.' |
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Take away the issues on the day,the woman was ignorant imv….
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The main issue is down to incompetence by the drainage workers…..
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I'm reminded of the Peter Hitchens quote whereby he believes the relationship between journalists and those in authority should be like that between a dog and a lamp-post, if they are to be held to account.
So fair play to Lydia, she wasn't there to be nicey-nice and be his pal, she was a racing journalist doing her job and holding Pullin to account. |
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Welfare can’t be paramount, because if it was we would have no racing over obstacles. None at all.
What is an “actual” hole? |
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theres a big hole in boy georges head. room for many lizards
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It's like the one between your two ears.
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George was you a barrister before you became a competition organiser and racing tipster
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LoyalHoncho and Busyfool, I know the pair of you are the equivalent of Dumb & Dumber, but out of respect to other forumites, would you mind not disrupting good threads as you try to target me.
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1993
 The allegation was the gaff tracks would abandon egg and spoon races at the drop of a hat. Haydock is a grade 1 / group 1 track. |
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Lol
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As a former annual member at haydock and still a regular visitor I can assure everyone haydock is a long way from a grade one track
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Cider, any examples of holes found on a course prior to Saturday where they carried on racing, other than Doncaster.
What does the date matter anyway, were they all idiots back in 1993? |
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The allegation was the gaff tracks would abandon egg and spoon races at the drop of a hat.
Yes, if an unexplained hole was discovered in the ground. You've failed to demonstrate otherwise. |
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In 1993 it had a better rep.
It stands to reason that they will have more determination to put high profile races/meetings on where they can. And as I alluded to, the availability of resources, ie the practicality is a consideration. But I'm convinced that generally, racing isn't abandoned unless it can't be avoided. |
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Oh, saintly GEORGE B doesn’t like being questioned. Very reasonable question - what is an “actual” hole, as opposed to a hole?
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You're not the brightest so I will explain.
Cider had cited examples which were not instances of holes being found in the ground, so I cited an actual example. Please do try to keep up. |
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Target you? Your grossly over-inflated opinion of yourself does you no favour. You’re a forumite, and on forums people discuss things.
So, what, in your untargeted opinion, is an “actual” hole? |
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LoyalHoncho, you're not the brightest are you?
Hundreds of forumites witnessed you having an epic meltdown on the Champions' Day tipping competition thread after I'd won it, and there have been other examples of you turning up on threads trying to 'trip' me up. But perhaps you're blinded by an epic seethe and don't realise you're doing it? |
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GEORGE.B • January 27, 2026 7:29 PM GMT
If there's an unexplained hole on the course before the last at Catterick, which is a £3K-to-the-winner bumper or whatever, it's off. But hey, it's Cheltenham, so we'll have a quick look and if 't seems alright we'll carry on The inference obviously is that they carried on only as it was an important track/meeting. I asked for examples of a gaff like Catterick abandoning a £3K race when it could have been avoided. You gave me Haddock from over 30 years ago  I don't know which meeting it was, but I wouldn't consider it a low grade racecourse. It's moot really as my overarching point is that people who are paid to make those decisions actually on the ground made the call, collaborating with the participants. Those claiming to know much better are only tapping away from their sofas, or bleating from the side lines. |
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the voice of pained reason boy geotge. ha ha
you have not complained about me not stalking you any longer. and im not because when you announced you had muliple stalkers i couldnt deal with the competition and gave up us storkers are not ones for sharing and are very possessive and jealous as a rule now, if you let on who my rivals, the other storkers are, then maybe we can do split shifts and share the storking duties. that might work who are they? |
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Thanks for posting that Cider as I clearly stated "an unexplained hole on the course".
But never mind Cider, you can have the last word, dear. |
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madtolo, this thread is about what happened on Saturday, but you couldn't help yourself, you had to try and provoke a response from me. You are f*cking obsessed with me. Seek help.
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You did. I would personally say that Haydock is a premier racecourse. So it's not an example of what you are claiming, it's actually the opposite.
You can definitely claim that if a racecourse finds a hole that can't be accounted for, they should be compelled to abandon. I don't believe that's the case. |
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It has appeared as if Pullen is being held solely responsible for the decision to run the race but the bottom line is that it is most likely the jockeys who ultimately agreed for it to go ahead so perhaps Lydia should have spoken to those who rode in it before launching into him? When Fakenham was abandoned after one race it was ultimately the jockeys who made the decision that the track was unsafe.
Also the drainage pipes do not stretch across the whole width of the track and they were obviously satisfied that the collapse was localised? |
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Two more obdurate individuals would be hard to find
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To be clear, 'premier' in the sense of the racing product/quality. Not the facilities or topography. I do know that many people have complained about Haydock's turf management and racecourse facilities.
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The decision should always be made by the jockeys Cag…….
After all………Cag. |
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The trainers were involved as well. One at least, we saw Ben Pauling on the course.
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The jockeys / trainers can safely now say it was a "storm in a teacup", but if something had gone wrong on Saturday, no doubt the lawyers would have been getting involved?
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Owners & trainers could've withdrawn their rnrs.
They must've thought it was safe to race. |