could you make it as a pro punter ? ...

Have to have the right personality for pro,the more psychopathic u are the better u are to handle the the strain of putting down large amounts of cash and take losses.

that was a hell of a weekend top2

any chance of a lend of the odd .86p R2R

I think it can be done on course if you have the proper mindset.

Proper mindset form,I have seen people a nervous wreck after trying the gig

Win or lose shouldn’t move you tanglefoot….and don’t get involved with others…..

Could i make it as a pro punter  definitely not
just not got the right discipline

I’m the stoic type on course……quiet,same mood…..unmoved win or lose…..

formoftheace 24 Jan 26 13:51 
I’m the stoic type on course……quiet,same mood,constant E wreckshun…..unmoved win or lose…..

That part never lets me down

that part let me down for a double recently

Only if every day was like the last 2. Just need Strong Leader and Taurus Bay for an unforgettable day with 5 wins from 8 bets so far, most at decent odds. No doubt things will return to normal very soon. Andrew Balding in the last week has been a big help with 10 wins from 27 in 14 days.

The irony of Aceform being on this thread

It is not that difficult, but there is a certain mystique about it, and a level of scepticism.

It is like most things,if you put in the work and have adequate discipline then it is not too hard.

It ain't rocket science.

Doubtful you will find any in the Uk or Ireland who earn full income going from course to course on a weekly basis….

That also includes punting from home….pre race win or EW…….

A million tbh…..

so nobody on betfair punting pre race is making a living wage each year ?

Win only no laying or trading just getting a good price…..paying the 2 %……difficult….i will be having a dig this up and coming flat season….win and place only….

I’ve binned the laying of football…..

I’ve binned laying horses and football….

Post any bet that you have had on BF in the last 30 days,aceform.
It really isn't difficult

Also pays to keep a record on riders and trainers on profit and loss….as well as racecourses…..

There’s a person on here who has kept records since the seventies……I admire him tbh….knows exactly how much…

Midnight Call
6.60    12.00    Back   
23-Jan-26 14:14
67.20
Mintana
23    3.00    Back   
23-Jan-26 14:14
-3.00
*Average odds:   On   Off                   
Back subtotal:    64.20
Lay subtotal:    0.00
Market subtotal:    64.20
Commission @ 1.99%:    1.28
Net Market Total:    62.92

Bun money….

Post any bet that you have had on BF in the last 30 days,aceform.
It really isn't difficultLaugh

   Well done Formy, how about Irons posting his previous username ??   Dont hold your breath.

Thank you,Aceform.
At least you are not a Delbert

Horse Racing / Wolverhampton 23rd Jan : 2 TBP
23-Jan-26 15:02    23-Jan-26 15:04    16.70
Horse Racing / Wolverhampton 23rd Jan : To Be Placed
23-Jan-26 15:02    23-Jan-26 15:04    14.06
Horse Racing / Wolverhampton 23rd Jan : 6f Class Stks
23-Jan-26 15:02    23-Jan-26 15:04    62.92

Full bet…

What has any previous username got to do with posting "actual" bets,Glasgow?

Probably two or three Glasgow tbh…

That you are a "two bobber" is irrelevant,Aceform.
You at least do have some bets.

You would have more chance Iron being on course playing with readies rather than sitting on the pc every day slagging people….

That you are a "twenty-nine-pound-thirty-niner" is also irrelevant, uptheirony.

Didn't stop you telling the Forum all about it though did it?

Here's another courtesy of AI....

Are you for real, OP? The incessant "appearances" of professional punters lately (hardly in the past when bookies operated as bookies) is a clear indication professional punting is as good as history unless some within the betting industry are "bribed". Even then AC would further extinguish any hope of being a professional punter for long.

YouTube is overloaded with professional punters,X is also drowning……

Most ask for money to join them,true pro punters (if any) don’t mix with anyone they live the lonely enjoyable life…..

Imagine being on course trying a make a few quid with people squawking…..

I'm sure there are stll a few around who 'exist' from punting, but from their appearance, the only self-proclaimed pro punters we get to see on our screens look like they shop in the local charity shop, which is quite telling.

All spent and failed Swifty…..

there are some, probably more unknowns  who keep under the radar   , from a personal point of view id have a "why put yourself under extra pressure "of relying on punting to pay the bills expenses  etc  and keeping the bank/banks topped up , a few  i would say  alan potts and screamingbeneaththewaves are known to use the  forum alan used to post as the anorak  and screaming still does those 2 are the nearest to pro punting that ive heard of , i suppose if you can make money selling tips would come in handy but if you are knocking out tips for cash you are not relying solely on punting for a living . much less pressure if you have one or two  passive incomes coming in for when losing runs occour .

very probably ace, once the bookies had their card marked from the machine, the game was really up.

Was 'Irish Whisper' not a pro punter once? Now he's a pr person with one of the O'Brien's on the Flat. It's without doubt the bookies will collude with hmrc given AML, willingly.

I'm down to one antepost bet post the injury to Sir Gino. Then 'adios' horse putting.

As foyles says above it's about pressure - much less pressure if you punt without needing to rely on those winnings from betting.

Then, ironically, you are much more likely to actually earn from betting (rather than spend).

I take my hat off to anyone who can earn solely from punting, but I don't envy it to be honest - even Harry Findlay apparently wrote about worrying he was going to just keel over someday from the stress of it all.

Exactly stu….all about the mindset….

you do need a strong mind set especially when its going pear shaped ,chasing is an issue ,chasing is bad enough when losing but chasing when you are winning  is another side to the coin ,ie i am well in front today lets have another bet or 2 . most will have another form of income  coming in be it pension part time job selling tips or whatever.

I keep telling you guys how win gambling but none of you guys will listen to THE BRASS.
All you have to do is lay odds on football teams playing away from home.
"NOW, Watch your available to bet balance race up like a petrol pump clock"
FROM THE BRASS

Correct Foyles,imagine on a losing streak and the household bills coming in…

the stress of a losing run and a declining bank with bills /expenses to pay with no other income coming in will play on your mind and doubt about your ability and luck  will almost certainly set in .

In answer to the o.p. No I couldn’t and, I wonder that anyone does.

The biggest irony though, is that two questions which should relate basically don't (in many ways at least)

1. can someone (relatively easily) make a good income from punting - yes

2. can someone (relatively easily) make their only income from punting - no

This is a good trap many people fall into thinking that question 1 should logically lead to question 2.

I eventually shaped my betting/trading around taking small winning returns, as often as possible, to jus pay bills etc,  however losing runs become intolerable and distort how you think and act and unless you walk away for a period of time and really take a rest the losing tends to continue.  Don’t play much now unless I come across something appealing.

A fairly feasible occupation for a pensioner with horseracing punting experience, assuming AC and bet restriction are not part of the equation. If so, the pensioner would have to contend himself/herself with exertions to and from race tracks. At the end of the day this taxing exercise could be too daunting for most pensioners.

Correct Foyles,imagine on a losing streak and the household bills coming in…


So your bank goes down from say 65k to 25k.  How does that stop you paying the bills ?

extra expenses of going racing would make it even more difficult imo. sat at home on the lappy more cost effective and the prices on here and firms are often better.

you can still pay the bills howard but extra pressure ,whereas amoney coming in from different sources would be a great help to not only funds but confidence and confidence or lack of it is a big thing .

I think if one has £65k loose money one would not be a serious professional horse punter. There are so many less risky ventures about with a better return - some even assured - without the addition of AC and other punting impediments.

Completely different mindset when on the racecourse …..

Why on Earth do you not go back On Course then Aceform?
It would be doing us all a favour

I’ve had my day being a member of Scottish tracks when you could relax and enjoy your day,had my share of some good winners like all punters….

Noise and prices would scunner many an original…..

as for selling tips if you are that good would you need to sell  tips, i dont like losing my own money and would hate to think others were losing money paying for tips ,put em up free and if anyone wants to back them then its down to them.

You cannot live in the past.
By going On Course you would incur horrendous expenses,have to take at least 20% shorter prices than on here and devalue your vehicle massively.
The Markets are mostly controlled by BF activity anyway

If you are skilful enough to make a living from betting then you could almost certainly make much much more using the same skills working for a living.

Under those circumstances being a pro punter actually costs you money.

It's a labour of love,Johnny

Ask one question "What is my edge ?"  - If you can't answer that, you are doomed before you start.

Edges included being able to actually get money on in the Shops in the morning via "putter onners".
Knowing when  certain horses were "off" and knowledge in general.
The loss of the first was massive

I must admit I find this question fascinating.

Do you have targets, be them daily, weekly, or monthly?

Do you cover your monthly exes first then move on to expenditure or as above is it just a target figure.

I am sure I would have to plan long term...I couldn't do it month to month.

I would definitely want a pot that could cope with runs of losses and wins.

Those that do it must have a pot that can survive for at least 12-18 months, as well as the main exes covered like mortgage or rent.



Fascinating, but I doubt I will ever know how those that can, do.

A lot or most will call the accounts frequently telling them to transfer from the business account tbh…..

Care homes,car sales etc……cuckoo….

In your opinion only.Aceform.
The amounts that you bet in preclude you from commenting,never mind your lack of knowledge

Ten bob or ten grand…who cares….

I’m retired……you think I’m going to punt 40 years of pension ….

I will profit from this up and coming flat season tbh…..

If you are skilful enough to make a living from betting then you could almost certainly make much much more using the same skills working for a living.

Under those circumstances being a pro punter actually costs you money.

Good point Johnny the guesser.

Remember reading something similar about 30 odd years ago about blackjack card counters.

You never show the forum evidence from yourself as a big hitter tbf…..

Don’t be shy…..

The point that I am making is,you have absolutely no idea of how people who do make racing pay manage to do so.
I am not asking you to bet in larger amounts,merely statin the fact that you are a "two bobber".
As for you making a profit next Flat Season

grow up Irons FFS

Interesting point JML….I remember years back in Malta an old pro (female) screaming at a player for ruining the cards….

Take a cold bath Iron…..

Then talk to the mirror….

The day that I need advice from you will be a first,Scrub Buddy Boy,you sanctimonious person.

I’ve worked out the previous name you spouted…..

And can honestly say you are just the same old End…..

Do one,you losing two bobber

"This time next year"

Don’t be shy you big player……

The mythology and appeal of being a pro punter was never really about making huge profits, I would suggest.

It was always about the idea of being a 'free man' not working for 'the man', living life that wasn't part of normal society or under those type of rules of control. You made your own money, lived your own life - as the kind of general concept.

At least that would be my best understanding of the idea.

Nick Mordin an interesting early writer about it in his books. At least in portraying the idea of that lifestyle.

Dave Nevison wrote about it as well. This is from A Bloody Good Winner. The last line, well...

When I left the City, I knew Timeform Perspective off by heart, and I knew Raceform, but although you may be able to make a profit by relying on them, and can certainly stop losing, I don’t think it’s the way to make proper money, and it was proper money I was determined to make. I hadn’t left the City in order to drink tap water instead of champagne, or to live off a toilet cleaner’s wage.

One of the first things I discovered was that the people who made their living on the racecourse, bookmakers and professional punters, weren’t as I had imagined them to be. I had come from an industry which dealt in millions of pounds every day, and I thought the racecourse market was the same. I thought bookmakers were rich and were used to dealing in big sums, and that professional punters were betting on a huge scale, and making fortunes. I was mistaken. Despite the fact that I’d been going racing on Saturdays all my life, and on other days when I could, and was totally wrapped up in it, I was hopelessly wrong about the reality of the racecourse market.

It came as a complete surprise to me that when I went to put on £400 I could only get on £200, and that there were a lot of professional punters who would never have a bet as big as £400. For many of them, the ceiling of their ambition was to stay in the game.  They set out for the racecourse hoping to win the sort of sums in a week that I’d been used to spending on one good lunch in the City, or someone spending on my behalf. Those professional punters got a buzz from the feeling that, in some way, they were putting two fingers up at society and getting away with it, even if they would have made more money stacking shelves at Tesco.

Even a successful, respected professional punter like Alan Potts was operating on a scale well below what I had in mind. In his book Against the Crowd, published in 1995, Potts related that his normal maximum stake was £400 and that he was not comfortable with a bet of over £500. ‘My aspiration is to make an annual profit of at least £10,000,’ he wrote. ‘There are no fortunes to be made from full-time punting, but there is a steady income for the hard working and the competent.’ To me, that sounds depressing, a vision of hard labour rewarded by baked beans on toast. Although we are chalk and cheese in terms of our personalities – Potts actually calls his racehorse ownership venture The Golden Anorak Partnership – I am not criticising his knowledge or approach. We all have to bet in the way that suits us best, but in my view, if you make only £10,000 a year from betting then you are not really a professional punter because you would be considerably better off doing almost anything else for a living. You have not beaten the system and must be living a pretty quiet life, probably in a bus shelter.

Three years earlier, in 1992, Nick Mordin published Betting for a Living. Mordin was forever developing and testing different betting systems and I loved his book, but his ambition was as limited as Potts. Mordin admitted, ‘My emotional threshold for betting is about £100. When I bet beyond that amount I start to get jittery and my judgement goes.’ At a time when he had plenty of money in the bank, Mordin once had a bet of £200. ‘I was having kittens as the dead cert skipped home,’ he recalled. Mordin set out to prove, as the title of his book suggested, that you can bet for a living, but during the six months of his experiment he made an average of only £1,100 a month, which he estimated worked out at £8 per hour of work. That wasn’t the kind of living I had in mind.

Mordin and Potts may well be making a lot more nowadays but I still see people eking out a living at the racecourse. I think a lot of them are loners and misfits, and women don’t figure in their lives at all. Apart from Eddie Fremantle and me, I can’t think of any professional punters on the racecourse who are married, with children.

Crime too. The Freakanomics book showed that low-level drug dealers in America could have earned more money working for McDonald's.

It's Terry in Minder, living off scraps from Arthur so he can say he's beaten the system.

id rather be betting and make  aten k a year than staking shelves in tescos for 12k

stacking shelves^^

Probably cost Nevison his marriage imo…..

Can’t imagine any wife with kids relying on a horse to win a race to feed the kids tbh….good point Ramruma a single mans game….

I heard Tom on RTV saying he had a go at pro punting…..ended up being the mic.

dave nevison as he has said was used to  earning big money in the city whereas alan potts and others had earned considerably less id imagine before starting out pro punting and 400 quid to nevo would be peanuts whereas 400 quid was a decent amount . more about punting within your means imo.

a decent amount at the time to alan potts nick mordin and co.^^^

Very happy punting to minimum stakes and laying off most of my bets at around a third or a half of the initial bet price. Not making a fortune but slightly up in the last 13 months. I am never looking for a profit of more than £10 on a race. Still much prefer the stock market for a living though.

sageform -- "Still much prefer the stock market for a living though."

I think in America a lot of successful punters made that move. Of course, investing in shares is part of the culture there in a way it still isn't here, despite the best efforts of governments from Mrs T and her "tell Sid" privatisations onwards. And famed punters (aka bookmakers) like Tabor and JP made their really big money in the City.

There is not the same winner and loser mentality. It is of course possible to lose money-I have done so myself-from the financial markets but 80% of shares appreciate in value over time and pay a dividend as well. I am up £85000 in 10 years starting with £120000 to invest. Mostly in managed fund ISAS. You have to take inflation off that of course but so you do if you play safe and put all of your savings in a bank or building society.

a lot more have started investing in stocks me included mainly since covid and its easier with the phone aps trading 121 freetrade etc mines long term have made good money but i dont take it out ,maybe sell a few stocks and reinvest the money back in.

Not what hurts in the pocket it’s upstairs in the mind,some people rage and chase…..others shrug their shoulders and wait until the next nap/best bet…..

only if i was a billionaire with access to inside information....

so, no....

Probably cost Nevison his marriage imo…..

Can’t imagine any wife with kids relying on a horse to win a race to feed the kids tbh….good point Ramruma a single mans game….

Can you imagine him telling her how he 'nearly and should have' won over 300 grand, but it fell off...honestly love...

I just know the look (and the 3 days of silence) I would get after that....

Lol,shouldn’t laugh tbh but it probably finished him…

Must have been dreadful…..

i was part of a syndicate that had a nag that 'could not win' at Plumpton in 2004 and I laid it for the lot and it won

Richard I had at the time gave me the sack the next day

stewy sometimes makes it through the night

Wearing a grubby tracksuit and living in your Mum's back bedroom at 45 is not something that many would aspire to.

you dont know what howards mum is like