what is even the point of running the john durkan today?

Will never understand why people purport to watch races because of the variety of trainers involved and not the variety of horses.     
Fascinating race in my view.

Unless your in punchestown impossible it’s pretty irrelevant what the weather is where you are

Is Punchestown bright, sunny and breezy? It's in mine.

JP's money is on. Fact To File is into fav again.

Gone too fast Gaelic Warrior or a soft lead?

1 of the races of the ssn

heart of a champion gaelic warrior

Cracker,Wnr battled back well.

Gaelic just held on. Both to the King George? Fact To File was running on at the finish. A soft lead was the key to the winner, I think.

Brtilliant race.

1.05 the 2nd, how good a battle was that

Nov 23, 2025 -- 3:08PM, elise wrote:

1.05 the 2nd, how good a battle was that

tremenjous (sic)

THAT was the point of running the John Durkan toaday !

Brilliant race. No need to wager on any participant. I relish watching top class performers like those two magnificent athletes.

Good finish but it was a 2 horse race from flag fall.

Townend had given his horse a big breather for much of the last half mile so was able to battle back.

best horses avoid each other people complain
best horse run against each people complain

Great race i am trying to decide who is the better Jockey but i cany split them.

its november its a starting point for all horses

townend is better than m walsh acey

Wondersobright 312

That’s this forum for you

,sageform doesn’t like anything to do with Irish racing if that race was at Cheltenham or Exeter it would have been a classic

wondersobright23 Nov 25 15:13Joined: 13 Jun 06 | Topic/replies: 114,662 | Blogger: wondersobright's blog
townend is better than m walsh acey
Maybe.....Maybe not.

O'keefe is fav for the Irish Jockeys Championship, not Townend. I wonder why.

jimnast, it was classic match race but the rest were 200/1 before they had jumped a fence. I watch some Irish racing but must admit I marginally prefer French. If you are Irish, of course you enjoy it the most but I am English so that is my first choice.

Some punters seem to like it sage, where they stretch out like the M6 after about 50 yards.

Being a steward over there must be easiest job ever invented, as they don't give a ferkin about it.

Perhaps you should have Layed then Sageform?

A fabulous race with two top class horses from the same Yard off for their lives.
Anybody who doesn't realise that should pack the game in

The horses and jockeys from the biggest stable and the biggest owners in Ireland are sacred eg the rescindment of a 30-day ban for an injudicious ride by Mr Geraghty (JP's jockey) on Noble Emperor at Limerick is a point in question.

The John Durkan was just another one of such races when a horse was given a very soft lead.

Misses the point really up theirons, you had the winners of the two biggest races of the year out for an exercise gallop. I'm not passing an opinion on that, but that's what people are talking about, not the ones ready for today and in the race to win. ie, the reality didn't match the hype, it matched expectation.

GW especially seems to know when he has been heavily backed, smart 'oss

Agreed irons.

jimnast, he’s not too keen on anything Scots either but. I don’t hold that against him. 

Funny you should say that loyal someone told me they saw him at lingfied Tuesday wearing a Denmark shirt.

Cider,if the Gold Cup winner had been trained to an inch of its life it still wouldn't have won.
The rest of the field faced mission impossible today barring falls.

BTW,I couldn't have Fact to File on my mind for the Gold Cup

trouble is no one trust the mullins camp nor coolmore  any more , even in the past with all sort of skullduggery in racing, you could guarantee  group1 racing was 99% legit , now id say uk british group 1 is 99% bent, and its driving loads off the sport,

99% Bent?
A ludicrous statement,Elis.

I would trust Mullins with my life ffs.

Nobody "knew" which horse would win today as the Market told you.
If forced to Back I would have been on the second.
Fortunately,it is not compulsory to do so

Cider,if the Gold Cup winner had been trained to an inch of its life it still wouldn't have won.
The rest of the field faced mission impossible today barring falls.

That's the point, hyping a race as for example one of the runners won the gc lto is disingenuous, if it's expected to be out with the washing. It doesn't really matter what the CV of the runners is if they aren't effectively going to be taking part in the race.

It was a race that had good horses in it, but on paper was a two horse race, which it ended up being. Last year's was a much better renewal, in my opinion.

Even GOB pointed out the jockeys were colluding at the start and allowed Townend to get a preferred position on the rails. On a horse that hangs right. They could have at least sorted that out before going down to post!

All those people saying this was the race of the season, better than the Gold Cup. Yeah right. Apart from a two horse race it was a training gallop for slow horses. Fecking shysters make these races an anti-climax.

Same here acey.  The bowlucks spoken on here about the Mullins operation is bizarre, laughable and pitiful - in any order you like.

Mullins isn't guilty of hyping the race up.

Ok it was a good race to watch. However, those on the 2nd Fact To File, a convincing winner of The Ryanair when making the running, would ask why gave a soft lead to the winner Gaelic Warrior who's prone to making the odd mistake and jumping right?

The winner was given a “soft lead”?  That’s not how I saw the race.  GW set a searching pace is the race I saw, hit his flat spot then came again, courageously.

Implausible would struggle to "see" his todger in a urinal,Honcho

This race today might as well have been in private at Closutton. No serious punter could have a bet. Half the field were out for fresh air and a leg loosener.

It is hardly Mullins fault that he had the best two at the distance.
They both ran on their merits

might leave a mark for the rest season on both the front two more so the winner

Prize money is the point. Could a serious punter have a big bet? No.

Not sure why there was so much negativity for this race.
It is perfectly placed in the calendar for a pipe opener.
Only two of Mullins' entries were suited to the conditions and those two ran great races.
It is never a betting race, never has been.
Plenty of big targets ahead.

Correct brandy

Eight of the last ten winners were trained by Willie M, three odds on. The original poster was correct in my opinion - why is it even in the calendar? Yes it's good to see top horses having an outing but it's well over-hyped. You don't have to have a bet that's true but you can't take it seriously surely.

Nobody is forced to bet on it.
A top class performance today but might have left its mark on the front two

What's the point in running the Lancashire/Betfair Chase?
Last 20 runnings has seen 7 or less runners on 17 occasions.
Most often won by the front two in the market.
Season has to start somewher.
Doubt the Irish give a fig about what the Betfair forum thinks.

brandy, therdore shouldnt be a grade 1 race, too many group1/ grade 1 races now,

Agree with that. And as Leif says, the Betfair should not be a Grade 1 either.

I fail to see why the number of runners is relevant when the best two horses in the race are 20 lengths clear at the first or second fence and only a very wide angle lens manages to show any of the other runners. At Haydock there were 5 possible winners at half way. The Durkan was a great finish between 2 very good horses at the trip but the rest of them never had a remote chance of getting better than third bar a fall.

Sadly all of the best 3 mile chasers in training apart from Galopin des Champs ran over the last 2 days so every Grade 1 race will be won by one of those so get used to it.

1stly impossible you live in Surrey punchestown is in kildare it's not June July or August so there's a good chance there will be cloud cover over the British isles l.
Sageform your 5 horse race were ridden as if someone stole them how can they go thru the season and expect to have anything letf for March ano Dan's building a big lead and he's probably had the easiest race but racing flat out all the race won't help during the season.
The same point applies to the John Durkan that was a grueller and I wouldn't be in a hurry to side with the front 2 next time.
And a thank you to all the posts that you don't have to bet to enjoy a race and to the others your just sad farts

O'keefe is fav for the Irish Jockeys Championship, not Townend. I wonder why.

-----------------

Townend is being very selective what he rides in the last couple of seasons and I would imagine WPM has advised him to keep to the better horses to prolong his career hence Danny and Brian Hughes are picking up a lot of spare rides where previously PT would have ridden the stable selected in all races.

CF Swan did the same kind of thing  but at least PT is still riding chasers.

Thanks 'punchestown'. It does make sense...for PT.

It seems the only people in the entire universe who have a interest in horse racing who didn’t look forward or enjoy yesterday’s race reside on this forum.

I can see why some people feel that it was overhyped, jim. I feel that's objective and rational. Not me personally, as hype goes over my head. Even if you take an 'independent view', these are the close up comments for 3rd to 9th (leaving out the rag):

In touch with leaders, mistake 3rd, not fluent 11th, not fluent 4 out, went modest third approaching last, no match for first two
Raced in third, weakening when lost third approaching last
Towards rear, steady headway after 4 out, never on terms    
Never better than midfield    
Never better than midfield
Never better than midfield
Always behind

Effectively a 2 runner race from flag fall. A very good 'all out' finish saved it from being a total write off, really. Nothing to stop a two runner race being a great race, but that wasn't what was trailed.

It was a two horse race whichever way you looked at it,Cider.
The third (Fastorslow)had been off injured since it ran in the same race last year and was hardly likely to be 100% first time up.
The Gold Cup winner was unlikely to be suited to the drop in trip and was ridden accordingly.
Some of the remarks on this thread show their utter ignorance o race reading and quite what they were expecting will have to remain a mystery

You're missing the point completely. The hype was around the deep line up and the plethora of quality in the race. It was not billed as a simple face off between the two of Mullins' stable stars expected to be ready for a hard race.

ie everyone on here (the sensible people), knew those things you've outlined. so why where so many stakeholders billing it as something that we knew it wasn't.

What I do think is that the two day navan fixture last weekend was different class to the punchestown two day fixture and I should think fairyhouse next weekend will also be better.

Some people are hard to please.
I take my own view of any race and don't get swayed by the hype which is prevalent in all walks of life nowdays

Even then, it could easily have been a prep for Kempton for GW, and left to FTF to take the race easily. Only the market told us it was off for its life. Or it could have been FTF out for a run, as the drift possibly suggested until the late market moves. Outsiders are just guessing which ones are wanted/expected on the day, especially this part of the season.

That is the case with most JP horses,Cider.
Backers beware

uptheirons I hear you, and yep some people moan for moaning's sake. For me there is some justification here. Whether I agree with it or not, I can at least see it's a valid opinion.

As for Stu's remark about going Maiden Hurdle pace.......You couldn't make it up

David Toft: "A brilliant John Durkan, but where were the other top notchers?"

"How do you explain so many other classy types not running with much obvious encouragement on their seasonal returns? Yes, the trip was wrong for plenty but, even so, they were pretty much all beaten a distance in old money, and if any one of them come out and win a Gp 1 next time it will be hard to see their runs on Sunday as more than a public schooling season."

"The run of the race played a big part on Sunday. It's rare for a horse to take a keen grip like Gaelic Warrior did, go miles clear, and still have enough left in the tank to win, let alone rally his way back to the front past a specialist at the trip."

So, so, so true. Well done Mr David Toft for being "sensible".

I just would like to add one thing. Did Townend get away with setting a "strong" gallop as reckoned by some pundits? Or, were the other jockeys including Walsh on Fact To File guilty allowing Townend too much rope?; Fact To File is a specialist over 2m 4f, well demonstrated in The Ryanair win.

Townend and Walsh cannot both be right. Or Gaelic Warrior had a fitness advantage over Fact To File judging on the betting market; Gaelic Warrior was heavily backed into 13/8f whereas Fact To File was a drifter from 5/4f to 9/4 2f.

Schooling in public, and a fitness advantage for one over the other of the two major principals. Either scenario is not good PR for Irish Racing, is it?

Walsh gave the 2ND every chance to win that.Upsides jumping the last & just
out battled.

imbecile123
Go and play on the motorway ffs

Looked like the perfect season pipe opener for all concerned, GW went off in front was keenish but in no way out of control, FTF followed a good way back and was able to close up easily enough as GW was given a long breather, they then settled down and had a little go at it, a few flicks of the whip with GW finding a bit as FTF got tired, neither had a hard race IMO and it was job done, the rest were simply out for an exercise gallop.

A 2m 4f specialist made up a huge amount of ground on the winner, got infront on the run-in, and then chinned on the line. Would it be fair to ask or say the jockey on the runner-up gave the winner too much of a lead? Or the winner had a fitness advantage over the runner-up?

I'd be astounded if Fact To File give away the same amount of ground to the winner if they meet again over a similar distance or slightly further.

GW is an Arkle winner that stays 3M well.
Nobody gave it a start,he simply marched on from the 3rd fence

And they are stablemates and whether we like it or not there was no way they were going to have gone at it hammer and tongs in a prep race season opener, I think connections would have regarded yesterdays run as the perfect pipe opener for both horses.

I still think that Gaelic warrior had been prepared for that race as a main target, probably the only one that was. He had a really hard race though.

Did he?

Some truly bizarre stuff here. If you cannot appreciate a race of that quality then you should find another hobby because it was, by a country mile, the best race of the season so far.
If Mullins had withdrawn the big 2 before the start I can guarantee you that many of the same negative posters would no doubt now be convinced that Fastorslow is a cert for the Gold Cup, and that he would have won yesterday's race regardless.

There are Mullins haters and there are Irish racing haters.  Fact of life.  Add in Hannon haters Irish stewards haters.  Season, stir, boil and stir and we have this thread.

Gaelic Warrior had a tactical edge, a fitness edge too possibly. I know which I'd like to be on or lay in their next encounter on an easy 3m. Others might differ, but this is horseracing.

Loyal

Unfortunately your 829 is very accurate quite unbelievable really

Sweeping statements about hate etc does not disguise the fact that the race was called before it started and panned out exactly as predicted by many, nothing to do with dislike or hate of any kind.

Even the Racing Post mentioned public schooling despite saying it was a line up as good as any Gold Cup pre-race, whether you enjoyed the "race" or not also cannot disguise the fact that half the field were non triers and part of the trainers plans. It seems the defenders of the race cannot accept the actual facts seen by everyone who watched, the finish could not disguise that either.

Two top class horses dominated the race and the finish.
If anybody believes that any of the other runners could have won with different rides they are deluded.

That is the whole point irons, people moan about non triers post race and yet the defenders of this race are willing to accept breaking the rules before the race, why iyo?

If I owned Fastorslow, who had been off with an injury since last year's race,I would have loathed to have given it a testing race.
Nobody knows what ability is retained after an injury.
Could he have finished a bit closer if given a hard time? Almost certainly.
The Gold Cup winner was hardly likely to be given a hard time first time out over a trip too short as well as being owned by Fact to File's owner.
The rest were without a price barring miracles.
I enjoyed the race Glen (without backing the winner),Glen.

I actually ended up backing Fastorslow ew taking the chance that he was half fit but never expected him to be close to winning, tbf the first 4 did as much as expected, the rest were non jiggers long before the race started. Trainers and jockeys are fined and banned as are horses for breaching the " Must be ridden to obtain the best possible placing" rule but here it appears as if HRI sanctioned it.

Like in England The Stewards are circumspect in the their diligence with certain owners horses

Winner 6/4 for the KG and FTF 8/1, don't see why such a discrepancy tbh and the 6/4 looks skinny with a few possible big improvers in the present 20 decs although can't bring myself to have an AP punt, last one withdrawn the day before. Any thoughts?

Mullins changes his mind more than his underwear so AP is out of the question for me.
I believe that GW is a stronger stayer than FTF over 3M

Probably right irons but Kempton not a stamina 3 miles imo so the difference bigger than I expected. As it stands I find it hard to choose between Jango and Jukebox as big improvers and looking ideal for the race, Fastorlow should be much more competitive also but a waiting game for final decs and bigger bets rather than AP. Also got the possibility of supplementary late comers but it would be great if most stood their ground, doubtful though.

The king George is often underestimated as a stamina test.

The price discrepancy between Gaelic Warrior is more than likely down to the comments from Mullins. He suggested they would not meet again over Christmas.

Mullins regularly drove Ruby mad with his late switches so even if you could get on A/P it would be Russian Roulette

Very true.
I am hoping they aim GW for the Gold Cup, so a trip to Kempton would be nice.