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Stating that he could close All his shops in the event of general betting tax increasing. Almost a quarter of the shops (300) already running at a loss according to him, if this is replicated across the industry it will likely mean the end of a high street presence.
The effect on the levy will be disastrous and there will be no way back, a fair few on here will celebrate the demise but be careful what you wish for imo.
The effect on the levy will be disastrous and there will be no way back, a fair few on here will celebrate the demise but be careful what you wish for imo.
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They are running at a loss because the scumbags are non-competitive even with other rip-off high st bookies
The machines may have lost their attraction.
I pass through a Coral every week and there is
no one on them when I do, often 2 customers or less.
I pass through a Coral every week and there is
no one on them when I do, often 2 customers or less.
Perhaps the bald manc might do better if he actually took bets to even a modest £100 stake?
There is bound to be a lot of posturing in a situation
like this. But if margins are squeezed some shops will close,
the bottom line will dictate it.
like this. But if margins are squeezed some shops will close,
the bottom line will dictate it.
That would be the first thought tbf irons but I don't think so on this occasion based purely on business viability.
saddo19 Oct 25 12:56Joined: 04 Dec 05 | Topic/replies: 53,281 | Blogger: saddo's blog
The machines may have lost their attraction.
Find you local branch of Merkur Slots (open 24/7 wherever possible) and you will find the machine players that you think have gone missing from your local "betting shop".
The machines may have lost their attraction.
Find you local branch of Merkur Slots (open 24/7 wherever possible) and you will find the machine players that you think have gone missing from your local "betting shop".
Many’s the time I’ve gone in there wanting a bet on a golf tournament, they offer each way 1 - 6, across the road spoilsports 1 - 10.
They would have to travel miles from the shop I refer to TM,a slow
bus ride or pay for parking. I really don't think that's the case here.
bus ride or pay for parking. I really don't think that's the case here.
Fair enough saddo - but if there's a market for one - they'll be coming to your area soon.
The sad reality is that "the attraction" doesn't wear off for addicts. Maybe they have joined the 21st Century and gone on-line.
As you say physical shops are doomed - and they were doomed long before any talk of a tax rise. It amazes me that they've lasted as long as they have - but I suppose the machines gave them about a 20 year stay of execution.
The sad reality is that "the attraction" doesn't wear off for addicts. Maybe they have joined the 21st Century and gone on-line.
As you say physical shops are doomed - and they were doomed long before any talk of a tax rise. It amazes me that they've lasted as long as they have - but I suppose the machines gave them about a 20 year stay of execution.
Very easy to say ''good riddance'' when you don't rely on them for
your income.
your income.
That's true - but not in the way you mean. The truth is the big operators no longer rely on them for their income.
"Good riddance" would be a bit brazen (and bad optics), not least to their employees but events have conspired nicely for them to pretend that shops matter to them and that they weren't already winding them down to focus on other (much more lucrative) opportunities and emerging markets.
As per my comment on the other thread: Does anybody believe that in their efforts to grab a slice of the US market, that any of these UK operators will be opening physical shops in those new territories??? (regardless of how light-touch the regulation might be or how the low the tax may be).
Will they feck - it would be akin to opening a Blockbusters style VHS film hire shop!
"Good riddance" would be a bit brazen (and bad optics), not least to their employees but events have conspired nicely for them to pretend that shops matter to them and that they weren't already winding them down to focus on other (much more lucrative) opportunities and emerging markets.
As per my comment on the other thread: Does anybody believe that in their efforts to grab a slice of the US market, that any of these UK operators will be opening physical shops in those new territories??? (regardless of how light-touch the regulation might be or how the low the tax may be).
Will they feck - it would be akin to opening a Blockbusters style VHS film hire shop!
Life doesn’t fall apart when you leave a bookies …..
I notice you never got a sniff yesterday Cag…..never mind…
Well done Horatio and Penzance. My sentiments too.
Still well in front of you Quixall or have you forgotten your "Good things" on your Arc thread and my 14/1 winner? lol
penzance19 Oct 25 14:01Joined: 26 Feb 04 | Topic/replies: 17,220 | Blogger: penzance's blog
Very easy to say ''good riddance'' when you don't rely on them for your income.
Neither Fred nor Paddy now relying on shops for their income. Can't blame them for trying to scapegoat the Govt - that's much better optics for them than the reality that shops have had their day.
When they get the slice of the much bigger and more lucrative American market that they crave and are focussed upon - do you think they will be opening any physical shops over there?????? Even if the regulation is light touch and the taxes are low?
Will they heck!
Very easy to say ''good riddance'' when you don't rely on them for your income.
Neither Fred nor Paddy now relying on shops for their income. Can't blame them for trying to scapegoat the Govt - that's much better optics for them than the reality that shops have had their day.
When they get the slice of the much bigger and more lucrative American market that they crave and are focussed upon - do you think they will be opening any physical shops over there?????? Even if the regulation is light touch and the taxes are low?
Will they heck!
They are hardly 'scapegoating' the Govt. Yor are scapegoating them by shifting blame away from this spectaculary inept administration we have that has nothing but harm since it took over
Your constant attacks on the bookmakers is an attempt to avoid the realty-this Govt is a calamity and is very bad for all businesses
Your constant attacks on the bookmakers is an attempt to avoid the realty-this Govt is a calamity and is very bad for all businesses
Quixall emerges as one who will celebrate, never mind the loss of thousands of jobs of ordinary people or the loss of about 40% of racings betting related income, sums up bitter punters tbh, obviously not winning ones!!
Busyfool - are you thinking the big operators were looking to maintain or expand their retail estates prior to talk of tax harmonisation? 
For sure, the tax hike will probably be the final nail in the coffin for many shops - but they were already 3 feet under! Do you think Fred, Paddy, etc, will be closing down their on-line presence?
The machines gave them a stay of execution and actually drove a massive expansion due to the 4 per shop rule- but the internet killed the shops.
For sure, the tax hike will probably be the final nail in the coffin for many shops - but they were already 3 feet under! Do you think Fred, Paddy, etc, will be closing down their on-line presence?
The machines gave them a stay of execution and actually drove a massive expansion due to the 4 per shop rule- but the internet killed the shops.
Nothing for me to celebrate Cag tbh…..
Personally couldn’t give a monkey’s regarding any bookmaker …..
Personally couldn’t give a monkey’s regarding any bookmaker …..
What will happen to "The Betting Shop Manager" of the Year Award?
Always look forward to that one.
Always look forward to that one.
be replaced by 'On-line Bookmakers Helpdesk Bot of the Year Award'.
Fred nice offer on Liverpool game paid double of win by 2 and treble of win by 3 , £100 max
The Management Joined: 27 Dec 00
Replies: 1187019 Oct 25 15:08
Busyfool - are you thinking the big operators were looking to maintain or expand their retail estates prior to talk of tax harmonisation? BlushLaugh
For sure, the tax hike will probably be the final nail in the coffin for many shops - but they were already 3 feet under! Do you think Fred, Paddy, etc, will be closing down their on-line presence?
But why do we want to put them in a coffin? I hardly go in but many do and it will be a calamity for tens of thousands, and if its true that they are are outdated and unviable then let market forces decide and not an act of vandalism from the Govt elected to 'pursue growth above all else', to quote Theeves herself
Instead, spiteful increases in everything has done the opposite-Do you agree? or are you totally devoted to the Lbour project and will not hear of criticism. seems so
Replies: 1187019 Oct 25 15:08
Busyfool - are you thinking the big operators were looking to maintain or expand their retail estates prior to talk of tax harmonisation? BlushLaugh
For sure, the tax hike will probably be the final nail in the coffin for many shops - but they were already 3 feet under! Do you think Fred, Paddy, etc, will be closing down their on-line presence?
But why do we want to put them in a coffin? I hardly go in but many do and it will be a calamity for tens of thousands, and if its true that they are are outdated and unviable then let market forces decide and not an act of vandalism from the Govt elected to 'pursue growth above all else', to quote Theeves herself
Instead, spiteful increases in everything has done the opposite-Do you agree? or are you totally devoted to the Lbour project and will not hear of criticism. seems so
I don't see it as a Party Political matter. Your business (and each of it's divisions) is either financially viable or it's not.
Shops were financially viable before the internet and "gaming" arrived on the scene - Now they're mostly not. They've just about clung on due to FOBT's (which actually gave them a mini-renaissance). Completely ignoring the Gambling Act probably helped a bit too.
I've got nothing against bookmakers or gambling; If you could point me in the direction of a bookmaker, I'd probably try to have a bet with them! But all I see now is gaming companies masquerading as bookmakers.
Bookmakers transforming their gambling businesses into an on-line gaming businesses is the root cause of all the issues and problems. It's been catastrophic for many "associated parties", including/especially racing. It's also been catastrophic for their shops - but of course, for the business as a whole, that's been considered a price well worth paying.
Gaming coupled with the internet have allowed them to transform from a relatively high-cost, low-margin business model (gambling in shops), to one that is low-cost and high-margin (gaming on-line).
Which division would you focus on? Which one would you be looking to close down (if presented with the opportunity)?
Shops were financially viable before the internet and "gaming" arrived on the scene - Now they're mostly not. They've just about clung on due to FOBT's (which actually gave them a mini-renaissance). Completely ignoring the Gambling Act probably helped a bit too.
I've got nothing against bookmakers or gambling; If you could point me in the direction of a bookmaker, I'd probably try to have a bet with them! But all I see now is gaming companies masquerading as bookmakers.
Bookmakers transforming their gambling businesses into an on-line gaming businesses is the root cause of all the issues and problems. It's been catastrophic for many "associated parties", including/especially racing. It's also been catastrophic for their shops - but of course, for the business as a whole, that's been considered a price well worth paying.
Gaming coupled with the internet have allowed them to transform from a relatively high-cost, low-margin business model (gambling in shops), to one that is low-cost and high-margin (gaming on-line).
Which division would you focus on? Which one would you be looking to close down (if presented with the opportunity)?
Not the point. It is up to bookmakers to act as they see fit, in accordance with the law, even if they make a right cobblers of it. Shareholders will blow up
The Govt. might(we do not know) make them unviable which should not be the effect of a state that wants business to succeed but has done nothing but harm so far. That is what I have heard from everybody in business, and most voted Labour
Saying the bookmakers should have gone down a different path is one thing but they will die out if the lendscape changes. That is the way things work, or don't. Football pools were huge, as was shopping by catalogue but times change
You are making light of something that could potentially end another widely enjoyed pastime by a Govt. that preaches one thing but is incapable of thinking ratiaonly because almost no member of it has ever run anything other than a trade union or council.
Endlessly bumping up costs is subject to the law of diminishing returns, as tax income frequently goes down not up. eg, the increases in excise duty were projected to bring in x amouint more, but the revenues decreased by 220 million and harmed a hospitality industry that suffered horribly during covid and has shrunk further
The Govt. might(we do not know) make them unviable which should not be the effect of a state that wants business to succeed but has done nothing but harm so far. That is what I have heard from everybody in business, and most voted Labour
Saying the bookmakers should have gone down a different path is one thing but they will die out if the lendscape changes. That is the way things work, or don't. Football pools were huge, as was shopping by catalogue but times change
You are making light of something that could potentially end another widely enjoyed pastime by a Govt. that preaches one thing but is incapable of thinking ratiaonly because almost no member of it has ever run anything other than a trade union or council.
Endlessly bumping up costs is subject to the law of diminishing returns, as tax income frequently goes down not up. eg, the increases in excise duty were projected to bring in x amouint more, but the revenues decreased by 220 million and harmed a hospitality industry that suffered horribly during covid and has shrunk further
Baroness Davidson, one of the prime movers behind the stop gambling lobby, has worked in neither. Has probably never placed a bet in a licenced betting shop or has any understanding of gaming compared to betting. The power these ignorant people have assumed is extraordinary.
None of them have. The 101 Labour loonies who wrote to Theeves demanding savage increases based on specious arguments are too noisy to ignore
All they see is venal corporate types mugging the poor blighters too thick to realise what they are doing and wouldn't care if it was ended tomorrow
The Netherlands hiked tax on gambling and guess what? Revenues have plummeted
All they see is venal corporate types mugging the poor blighters too thick to realise what they are doing and wouldn't care if it was ended tomorrow
The Netherlands hiked tax on gambling and guess what? Revenues have plummeted
I'm not making light of anything. I'm pointing out that shops are an analogue business operating in a digital world. As such, they've been dying a long, slow death for a long time and much of it is self inflicted.
Much as Fred, Paddy, etc, would like to pass the buck - The autopsy won't give tax harmonisation as the cause of death - much more likely to (rightly) conclude it was multiple causes, mostly self-harm, a kind of assisted suicide.
When they conquer the US market (lol) - shops won't be any part of their strategy even if tax is low and regulation is lax. That's a fact. Sorry for repeating that fact so many times (on various threads) - but it sums up that shops just aren't viable.
Much as Fred, Paddy, etc, would like to pass the buck - The autopsy won't give tax harmonisation as the cause of death - much more likely to (rightly) conclude it was multiple causes, mostly self-harm, a kind of assisted suicide.
When they conquer the US market (lol) - shops won't be any part of their strategy even if tax is low and regulation is lax. That's a fact. Sorry for repeating that fact so many times (on various threads) - but it sums up that shops just aren't viable.
Why is the Govt. so anti-gambling?
I said the same about changing landscapes but want to know why it is the business of the Govt. to speed their extinction?
Do you think it has been good for business in general?
I said the same about changing landscapes but want to know why it is the business of the Govt. to speed their extinction?
Do you think it has been good for business in general?
A bit ironic, since it was the same government that opened the flood gates years ago.
Busyfool19 Oct 25 18:57Joined: 14 Oct 25 | Topic/replies: 12 | Blogger: Busyfool's blog
Why is the Govt. so anti-gambling?
You can gamble 24/7 in the uk. We've had the most liberal gambling laws in the world for a very long time.
You'd have a stronger argument about a nanny state if you were ranting about the forced wearing of seat-belts or food manufacturers being made to list their ingredients or your lack of access to guns - that really is a nanny-state!
Why is the Govt. so anti-gambling?
You can gamble 24/7 in the uk. We've had the most liberal gambling laws in the world for a very long time.
You'd have a stronger argument about a nanny state if you were ranting about the forced wearing of seat-belts or food manufacturers being made to list their ingredients or your lack of access to guns - that really is a nanny-state!
There is still money to be made in shops but they need to adapt or die. It needs a massive change.
Management live for today and how much they can make and have made no preparations for the future and what might happen.
They could easily have self regulated the fobts to a £20 max spin but those in charge chose to keep taking the huge profits at £100 a spin because it suited their remit.
Shops need to go back to shorter opening and closing hours, halfing staffing costs, go betting terminals only with no OTC business, no paper slips, coupons etc no papers, all info on terminals etc
Management live for today and how much they can make and have made no preparations for the future and what might happen.
They could easily have self regulated the fobts to a £20 max spin but those in charge chose to keep taking the huge profits at £100 a spin because it suited their remit.
Shops need to go back to shorter opening and closing hours, halfing staffing costs, go betting terminals only with no OTC business, no paper slips, coupons etc no papers, all info on terminals etc
Wouldn’t suit the pensioners. Where would be the social care in that?
Nowhere did I mention nanny state. Please do not invent stuff
The gambling laws were in place prior to this Govt. taking over from the car-crash with considerable goodwill, since squandered. This Govt. is, I believe, anti-gambling. Do you agree?
And you are very relaxed about potential damage to high street businesses. I do not like to see it, inevitable though it might be. Least of all do I want to see a UK Govt. being in any way responsible for it
Why is this Govt. so anti-business, iyo?
The gambling laws were in place prior to this Govt. taking over from the car-crash with considerable goodwill, since squandered. This Govt. is, I believe, anti-gambling. Do you agree?
And you are very relaxed about potential damage to high street businesses. I do not like to see it, inevitable though it might be. Least of all do I want to see a UK Govt. being in any way responsible for it
Why is this Govt. so anti-business, iyo?
In Cheltenham the council have just approved a
24 hour license for FOBT-IN the high street
Re Luxury Leisure
WTF!!!
24 hour license for FOBT-IN the high street
Re Luxury Leisure
WTF!!!
haven't seen an advert trying to tempt horseracing punters through the door for 30 years.
see adverts for bingo, slingo, mumbingo, roulette, slots, bots, fots, jots every 7 minutes ...
deposit £10, get 5000 free spins on Paudys Wonder Wheel (don't worry ya not winning - we just want ya to get addicted. safely).
see adverts for bingo, slingo, mumbingo, roulette, slots, bots, fots, jots every 7 minutes ...
deposit £10, get 5000 free spins on Paudys Wonder Wheel (don't worry ya not winning - we just want ya to get addicted. safely).
here's 5000 free spins on Paudys Wonder Wheel.
no thanks, can i have £5 on the next fav at 9/4. it's 3.05 on Betfair.
fk off, ya barred.
no thanks, can i have £5 on the next fav at 9/4. it's 3.05 on Betfair.
fk off, ya barred.
Dealer.
Could not agree more regarding your earlier post.
Ronnie.
Could not agree more regarding your earlier post.
Ronnie.
Dealer.
Said many times exes going through the roof takings going through the floor day of yesterday so logged on the till this morning looked at bets for Saturday over a bullseye none.
Ronnie.
Said many times exes going through the roof takings going through the floor day of yesterday so logged on the till this morning looked at bets for Saturday over a bullseye none.
Ronnie.
all good fun until someone shows a modicum of nous ....
then it's So long, farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, adieu.
Adieu, adieu.
To you and you and you
then it's So long, farewell, Auf Wiedersehen, adieu.
Adieu, adieu.
To you and you and you
Poncho.
All I can say its getting worse by the week the fobts have dried up .The otc has halved from what it was taking 20 years ago .Hate to say this I can see no future for the shops.
Ronnie.
All I can say its getting worse by the week the fobts have dried up .The otc has halved from what it was taking 20 years ago .Hate to say this I can see no future for the shops.
Ronnie.
LAB attack on business is basically
returning employers NI to the same level as under Tory jophnson gov,with a small decrease in threshold you start paying it at
and implementing Johnson Tory gov policy of THE UK WORKER DESERVES A LARGE PAY RISE,by raising the minimum wage,people want benefits bill cut but don't want businesses to pay a higher minimum wage,so gov subsidised UK business
employers also helped by NHS waiting lists been cut by a million
no promise from either Tory,s/reform to cut NI or reduce the minimum wage ,so nothings going to change under either a Tory or reform gov for business
returning employers NI to the same level as under Tory jophnson gov,with a small decrease in threshold you start paying it at
and implementing Johnson Tory gov policy of THE UK WORKER DESERVES A LARGE PAY RISE,by raising the minimum wage,people want benefits bill cut but don't want businesses to pay a higher minimum wage,so gov subsidised UK business
employers also helped by NHS waiting lists been cut by a million
no promise from either Tory,s/reform to cut NI or reduce the minimum wage ,so nothings going to change under either a Tory or reform gov for business
can have 6/1 LAB overall majority next GE.
no fkng wonder
no fkng wonder
If you are barred from all shops it's an impossible thing to regulate. You could walk into any shop outwith your normal area and no one would bat an eye lid. By the time they trawled through the 100s of cctv images you would be gone hours ago, 99% wouldn't bother, more so if you used the ssbts
i think WH trialled facial recognition a few years ago. i walked into one "outwith my normal area" and the guy behind the counter knew i was barred straight away. was quite impressive.
i just went in the pub next door and got 3 punters to go in and put the bets on for me. happy days.
good system though, well worth the dosh.
i just went in the pub next door and got 3 punters to go in and put the bets on for me. happy days.
good system though, well worth the dosh.
true, i was also betting more than 25p each-way so that would also have been a red flag ...
omg he wants a fiver on one.
i want name, age, address, photos, i want everything on this fkpot .... he's trying to ride us for eleven quid
i want name, age, address, photos, i want everything on this fkpot .... he's trying to ride us for eleven quid
if you believe a word Fahey says,lots of his staff will have done their bit ahd helped close the William hill betting shop in Malton by backing his 200 to 1 winner on Saturday
Restrictions have little to do with the demise of shops. Refusal of service,company wide on their system in shops well under a thousand people
how much would you have to bet on a 200/1 shot for them to rub out the 200's and stick up 66's ??
i'll start the bidding at one pound.
i'll start the bidding at one pound.
someone backed it as the bfex price was pretty tight (compared to sp)
true. think it was around 232 here.
your everyday 200/1 shot in Ireland be 1000 here and they'd probably give you 5000 if you asked nicely.
your everyday 200/1 shot in Ireland be 1000 here and they'd probably give you 5000 if you asked nicely.
"his staff will have done their bit and helped close the William hill betting shop in Malton" It's pretty clear the staff were skint already...or wouldn't have backed it with washers
Remember the times when you could get a bet on at a bookie on the high street and it would be fairly busy with good locals, or go online and place a proper bet with them. Now they want your DNA, your bank records, a load of selfies with your ID only to then offer you £2.23 on the nose of a 2/1 shot 
you can have 10 grand on the roulette angela. bit of balance please.
should have standardised limits of win bets and place bets as they do in SW, South Australia, Queensland and Victoria.
that would sort out all these shyster pop up merchants getting a licence "to provide betting services", and then taking a bet on fk all bar the cashino.
ie thanks very much for the licence, but we're not actually bookies.
that would sort out all these shyster pop up merchants getting a licence "to provide betting services", and then taking a bet on fk all bar the cashino.
ie thanks very much for the licence, but we're not actually bookies.
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