Welcome to Live View – Take the tour to learn more
Start Tour
There is currently 1 person viewing this thread.
A different type of gamble: the pro punter on a run with his small group of homebreds
It's a ping in the inbox rather than a satisfying flop onto the doormat these days but Dan Gilbert always feels a spike of adrenalin when the catalogue for the Tattersalls Autumn Horses In Training Sale arrives.
Like receiving the Wimbledon ballot or a chance to order festival tickets, it's one of those harbingers of good times in the distance.
The professional punter has always recognised the sale as an invitation to harness his form knowledge, picking up high-quality hurdlers such as Nietzsche and Bothy as well as an Ebor winner, Moyenne Corniche, for reasonable sums.
Gilbert's most recent winners have, though, been from a different type of project. Three of his four individual runners during this Flat season have been homebreds, with sister and brother Letmeseethecolts and Division Day as well as Wine Dark Sea getting their heads in front in middle-distance and staying events.
"Because I'm from Cheltenham, I started off wanting to buy horses that could run there and I had this idea that I'd try to buy a Fred Winter horse in October," he recalls.
"I was doing that for a few years and never quite managed to win it. Then I thought if you're breeding horses like that, you never know…
"You probably have to be a bit better than I thought but it's a fairly winnable race at the Festival."
He laughs. "Well, it's the only one you can win off [a mark of] 125."
Still a Cheltenham man, Gilbert has only ever had a small breeding interest to keep the expense controllable but has boarded various mares at nearby Overbury Stud over the years.
"I don't think I've ever had more than three mares and I've only got one at the moment but they're starting to run now," he explains.
Nietzsche (left): Greatwood Handicap Hurdle winner in 2018
Nietzsche (left): Greatwood Handicap Hurdle winner in 2018
Credit: Alan Crowhurst
"I think the first mare I ever bred off was Chilly Filly [dam of dual-purpose winners Nordic Combined and Punxsutawney Phil], and that's going back a few years as she retired in about 2012."
Letmeseethecolts and Division Day were bred out of Champs Elysees mare Full Day, another find at 15,000gns from the Autumn Sale whose biggest success came in the Listed Wensleydale Juvenile Hurdle at Wetherby.
Gilbert says: "I thought she'd make a nice jumps mare because she was very sound, she had a good attitude, stayed well, went on top of the ground, jumped pretty good.
"I thought she was as good as most jumps mares and that there was no reason I couldn't get a nice dual-purpose horse out of her. They're only small those two but they'll probably both go jumping, they've schooled okay. They're no world beaters but they'll be fun."
Gilbert has handed Full Day over to a full-time National Hunt breeder as he is instead concentrating on the potential of Ajwibah, an unraced Sea The Stars mare he found in a Shadwell draft at Tattersalls in 2019 for 55,000gns.
Wine Dark Sea, who is with Harry Charlton, is her first foal and was off the mark at Kempton in August.
"When you get involved first of all, you think 'this filly is related to a Gimcrack winner and so why can't I breed a Gimcrack winner', that kind of thing, but after a few horses that can't win a 0-60, you realise there are plenty of other horses in that mare's pedigree that couldn't win a 0-60 either and you start looking at it a bit differently," he explains.
"The other mares I've had were just horses in training that we thought we'd put in foal and have a go. Ajwibah was the first time I'd tried to buy a decent mare just purely to breed from, thinking I've got a chance of getting a good one.
"She's from an amazing German family and I was chuffed to get her, her dam is a sister to Schiaparelli, Samum, all those really nice horses, and she's by Sea The Stars so I thought that side was cast-iron.
"I'm not going to be able to go to the sales and buy a Derby or a Melbourne Cup hope, certainly at the horses in training sales, but if you've got a mare from families that have done that, then why can't you? I just had to find a sire I like from my budget, and then I've got a chance."
Moyenne Corniche (farside) wins the Ebor in 2011
Moyenne Corniche (farside) wins the Ebor in 2011
Credit: Edward Whitaker
That was Cheveley Park's Ulysses, sire of all his three recent winners and of several more to come.
"I think when you take a view on a stallion, especially when you've only got one or two mares, I didn't learn anything in between the times I put them in foal so I ended up going to him three or four times," he says.
The trainer Gilbert is most associated with is Brian Ellison, which stretches back 15 years or so to early partnerships with fellow shrewd gambler Kristian Strangeway of the Koo's Racing Club. The Finale Juvenile Hurdle winner of 2011, Marsh Warbler, was one of their big early stars.
When Division Day doubled his career tally at Southwell last weekend under Harry Russell, the Ellison yard believed it to be the trainer's 1,500th career winner.
The statistic proved a real head-scratcher for the Racing Post's peerless archivists, John Randall and Craig Thake, who calculated it was actually only number 1497, so let's hope that the team haven't already ordered a life-sized cake of the chestnut three-year-old to mark the occasion.
"Brian's a good sport, if you've got an owner that wants to have a pop at something, he doesn't mind having a go," Gilbert says.
"Win or lose he's good fun after the race and he's very open to what you want to do as an owner; whatever tactics you come up with, even if they're ridiculous, he tends to just let you get on with it. And he gets great results with all types of horses, whatever you send him."
Gilbert says he still makes a living from betting and is surely typical of those that actually manage to do so, being a friendly and understated man with his own strategies.
You can almost detect the pragmatic, cold-eyed punter from his business at the sales brushing against the romantic who still dreams of breeding his own Fred Winter winner.
"I've always loved the horses in training sales, flicking through the catalogues trying to buy one," he says.
"Sometimes you've followed a horse over a cliff and you're still waiting for the trainer to change their trip and you think, 'I'm going to end up buying this one'. Then you hope you were right. Obviously I've got it wrong plenty of times but it's good fun.
"When you're breeding, you find so much of your budget is taken up with the mares and foals and the stallion fees, it doesn't really leave room to go and buy another horse in training so it's been a quite a slow few years for me."
He continues: "I might try to get back into buying a few more of the horses in training but I'll still look at the mares sale too.
"I wouldn't mind one more mare but if I do, it'll be a similar kind to Ajwibah. You probably only get one horse every two years and it's ever so exciting when you look at them on paper and you think it could be anything. So having one a year, that would be lovely."
It's a ping in the inbox rather than a satisfying flop onto the doormat these days but Dan Gilbert always feels a spike of adrenalin when the catalogue for the Tattersalls Autumn Horses In Training Sale arrives.
Like receiving the Wimbledon ballot or a chance to order festival tickets, it's one of those harbingers of good times in the distance.
The professional punter has always recognised the sale as an invitation to harness his form knowledge, picking up high-quality hurdlers such as Nietzsche and Bothy as well as an Ebor winner, Moyenne Corniche, for reasonable sums.
Gilbert's most recent winners have, though, been from a different type of project. Three of his four individual runners during this Flat season have been homebreds, with sister and brother Letmeseethecolts and Division Day as well as Wine Dark Sea getting their heads in front in middle-distance and staying events.
"Because I'm from Cheltenham, I started off wanting to buy horses that could run there and I had this idea that I'd try to buy a Fred Winter horse in October," he recalls.
"I was doing that for a few years and never quite managed to win it. Then I thought if you're breeding horses like that, you never know…
"You probably have to be a bit better than I thought but it's a fairly winnable race at the Festival."
He laughs. "Well, it's the only one you can win off [a mark of] 125."
Still a Cheltenham man, Gilbert has only ever had a small breeding interest to keep the expense controllable but has boarded various mares at nearby Overbury Stud over the years.
"I don't think I've ever had more than three mares and I've only got one at the moment but they're starting to run now," he explains.
Nietzsche (left): Greatwood Handicap Hurdle winner in 2018
Nietzsche (left): Greatwood Handicap Hurdle winner in 2018
Credit: Alan Crowhurst
"I think the first mare I ever bred off was Chilly Filly [dam of dual-purpose winners Nordic Combined and Punxsutawney Phil], and that's going back a few years as she retired in about 2012."
Letmeseethecolts and Division Day were bred out of Champs Elysees mare Full Day, another find at 15,000gns from the Autumn Sale whose biggest success came in the Listed Wensleydale Juvenile Hurdle at Wetherby.
Gilbert says: "I thought she'd make a nice jumps mare because she was very sound, she had a good attitude, stayed well, went on top of the ground, jumped pretty good.
"I thought she was as good as most jumps mares and that there was no reason I couldn't get a nice dual-purpose horse out of her. They're only small those two but they'll probably both go jumping, they've schooled okay. They're no world beaters but they'll be fun."
Gilbert has handed Full Day over to a full-time National Hunt breeder as he is instead concentrating on the potential of Ajwibah, an unraced Sea The Stars mare he found in a Shadwell draft at Tattersalls in 2019 for 55,000gns.
Wine Dark Sea, who is with Harry Charlton, is her first foal and was off the mark at Kempton in August.
"When you get involved first of all, you think 'this filly is related to a Gimcrack winner and so why can't I breed a Gimcrack winner', that kind of thing, but after a few horses that can't win a 0-60, you realise there are plenty of other horses in that mare's pedigree that couldn't win a 0-60 either and you start looking at it a bit differently," he explains.
"The other mares I've had were just horses in training that we thought we'd put in foal and have a go. Ajwibah was the first time I'd tried to buy a decent mare just purely to breed from, thinking I've got a chance of getting a good one.
"She's from an amazing German family and I was chuffed to get her, her dam is a sister to Schiaparelli, Samum, all those really nice horses, and she's by Sea The Stars so I thought that side was cast-iron.
"I'm not going to be able to go to the sales and buy a Derby or a Melbourne Cup hope, certainly at the horses in training sales, but if you've got a mare from families that have done that, then why can't you? I just had to find a sire I like from my budget, and then I've got a chance."
Moyenne Corniche (farside) wins the Ebor in 2011
Moyenne Corniche (farside) wins the Ebor in 2011
Credit: Edward Whitaker
That was Cheveley Park's Ulysses, sire of all his three recent winners and of several more to come.
"I think when you take a view on a stallion, especially when you've only got one or two mares, I didn't learn anything in between the times I put them in foal so I ended up going to him three or four times," he says.
The trainer Gilbert is most associated with is Brian Ellison, which stretches back 15 years or so to early partnerships with fellow shrewd gambler Kristian Strangeway of the Koo's Racing Club. The Finale Juvenile Hurdle winner of 2011, Marsh Warbler, was one of their big early stars.
When Division Day doubled his career tally at Southwell last weekend under Harry Russell, the Ellison yard believed it to be the trainer's 1,500th career winner.
The statistic proved a real head-scratcher for the Racing Post's peerless archivists, John Randall and Craig Thake, who calculated it was actually only number 1497, so let's hope that the team haven't already ordered a life-sized cake of the chestnut three-year-old to mark the occasion.
"Brian's a good sport, if you've got an owner that wants to have a pop at something, he doesn't mind having a go," Gilbert says.
"Win or lose he's good fun after the race and he's very open to what you want to do as an owner; whatever tactics you come up with, even if they're ridiculous, he tends to just let you get on with it. And he gets great results with all types of horses, whatever you send him."
Gilbert says he still makes a living from betting and is surely typical of those that actually manage to do so, being a friendly and understated man with his own strategies.
You can almost detect the pragmatic, cold-eyed punter from his business at the sales brushing against the romantic who still dreams of breeding his own Fred Winter winner.
"I've always loved the horses in training sales, flicking through the catalogues trying to buy one," he says.
"Sometimes you've followed a horse over a cliff and you're still waiting for the trainer to change their trip and you think, 'I'm going to end up buying this one'. Then you hope you were right. Obviously I've got it wrong plenty of times but it's good fun.
"When you're breeding, you find so much of your budget is taken up with the mares and foals and the stallion fees, it doesn't really leave room to go and buy another horse in training so it's been a quite a slow few years for me."
He continues: "I might try to get back into buying a few more of the horses in training but I'll still look at the mares sale too.
"I wouldn't mind one more mare but if I do, it'll be a similar kind to Ajwibah. You probably only get one horse every two years and it's ever so exciting when you look at them on paper and you think it could be anything. So having one a year, that would be lovely."
Show More
Mr Hardcore has done pretty well for himself. Was a good judge, so not too surprising.
I was always under the impression that Dan had a business that made him his money, rather than a professional gambler.
Post Your Reply
Please login to post a reply.
Wonder
Instance ID: 13539