Dewhurst. FYI.

8 or 9 having zero chance of being seriously considered. When you have that amount of ammunition it makes sense to flood the entries because why not. All season they'll be working together with some making the races. Covering all possible scenarios.

It's the way they operate.
You don't have to like it

I don’t object to it.  I’m an admirer of Coolmore and and a respecter AOB as it happens.  Their breeding programme is fascinating.  I just felt it was worth bringing to people’s notice.  It highlights just how far ahead they are in relation to other operations and hints at the dreadful state that the UK challenge is in.

and id bet anything that no coolmore group1 winner this season  would have won any group1 in the 70s to late 90s

Coolmore are producing horses like biscuits on a conveying belt from McVities and at costs considerably lower than any of their competitors. If the horse is not an own breed Coolmore would have obtained a share at a massive concession in association with others.

I like Italy who'll be up in distance to 8f. But, he's also in the Futurity Stakes at Doncaster though.

There must be a point is reached with so many entries from the first stages, and the accumulative fees involved for stages, that it may be more financially viable to just wait til the 5 days and pay the supplementary fee for your best 1 or 2 horses that are fit and ready? But then i presume this may be countered by limiting the prize pot which takes into account the entry fees?

To frighten the opposition off?

The UK opposition generally frighten themselves off Irons   

UK trainers have won 5 out the last 7.

Karl and eve wont be frightened

You might be right elisjohn but that says something about every horse in training now not just Coolmore’s.

elisjohn, I think one of their two 3yo 10-12f fillies may have won an Oaks, Nassau or Yorkshire Oaks on their best form in those races this season. The rest I agree with.

Nostalgia is always the biggest influence when comparing an era , also known as " The good old days "

though, arguing against myself, was the Nassau a G1 in "the good old days"?

Became a group one in 1999 Donegal

In recognition of united winning the treble

jimnast. They'd have been waiting a long time had they been following Everton Jimnast! Be a Listed now.

Impossible, would you not worry about Italy
Handling the dip, hanging, and not settling??

Looks to have lots of ability ?

The Dewhurst has always been over 7f.

'ponchoslament', to be absolutely frank I do not have the ability or knowledge to read or even realise whether a horse will be more suited to a particular type of track. I only go on its ability and potential unless an astute race leader or experienced punter brings this up.

I can see Italy has a tendency to race a bit free, but hopefully this will be addressed before the Epsom Derby next year. I see him as my candidate for the race after the fiasco and disappointment with The Lion In Winter. And, since you brought this up Epsom might be even more testing than Newmarket.

I think Italy would be more likely Futurity Trophy bound at Doncaster than The Dewhurst.

Impossible thst horse wouldn’t get a mile n and half
In a horse box??  Races like a mile is it’s maximum??

If so, I've done my money (again)!

LOL, I think so mate

I think I'll need Fact To File to do me a favour in the King George at Kempton on Boxing Day. Or maybe Aventure or Jan Brueghel to come up trump in The Arc.

Impossible there’s a stat that says no horse has won the derby having been beaten 2 or so times @ 2

Trip isn’t the main issue, lack of Klass

Oh dear !!!

Stats are there to be broken but his next run will be the 5 th of the season?

The grey and the Godolphin colt both been beaten since turning him over

Oath
Masar.

How many did Masar lose Penzance

3

To save me looking up, I recalled the stat and oath was yonks ago.

Have said before I’ve lost all my paperwork with this info and will make sure I update.

Thanks man

Either way it’s not a good stat having lost 3 already and only two having bucked it.

You have the maximum number of runs at two too?

i can think of another that lost 4 times at 2 and won a derby so i'd bin google and do some homework

WOE

Masar must be an exception having lost 5 times in total before the Derby! Had to look it up, beaten at 5/6 in Meydan on his first start as a 3 year old.

Why are people so negative Elise? It’s not about google it was a recollection of stat and I welcome the updates.

Was a long time between Oath and Masar.

i'm not negative i think you're a k*ob

Thanks and you’re a faceless prattt

you're welcome

Never heard of convo? Because it got it going didn’t it? One line!

as you post 10 times in a row and twist every thread to be about yourself and your tall tales i'd suggest most are more monologues

Erhaab definitely lost more than twice as a 2 year old

Twist? Another with no humour and big jealous streak for sure!

Thanks Andrew someone bring the axe for my imminent execution for recalling a stat wrong but never stating it to be bang on correct.

The Derby for Italy, Jesus, it’s entered up in 3 end of
Season 2yo races, probably all early closers? It looks at present
The last thing it wants, is a s8 mile at Donny, in likely soft ground

If I was to back the horse in a race, a s8 7, with lots of pace and hope
He‘d settle and get cover, and not hang in, he might then finish off his race

If anyone on here, thinks this is a derby horse, ya need to pack it in now ffs

Care to list the years of the winners that were beaten multiple times?

1994
1999
2017
2018

1994 - Erhaab
1999 -  Oath
2017 - Wings of Eagles
2018 - Masar

Wow like buses!

Still it’s not for me to back one beaten that many times as the 4 shows in all the history of the Derby.

I recalled the stat wrong, not by design but I’m glad that I did as we can all use a reminder and update.

And there you go lots of school masters want to correct but non want to give an opinion on Italy as a Derby candidate!

Delashay • September 18, 2025 5:32 PM BST
1994 - Erhaab
1999 -  Oath
2017 - Wings of Eagles
2018 - Masar

Wow like buses!

Still it’s not for me to back one beaten that many times as the 4 shows in all the history of the Derby.

I don’t think that it’s named to win a Derby! ;)

No fckn chance.

So, if Shergar had been called Soppy J obb y it wouldn’t have won the Derby? 

Thanks Penzance and no he was named to win the Derby.

I’d posted in the Anti Post forum about the tradition and superstition behind the naming and number of letters.

Harland - 7 - 2016
Camelot - 7 - 2012
Pour Moi - 7 - 2011
Kris Kin - 7 - 2003
Galileo - 7 - 2001
Sinndar - 7 - 2000
High-Rise - 8 - 1998
Shammit - 7 - 1996

Delashay • June 7, 2025 3:55 PM BST
And this Years Winner LAMBOURN  8 letters folks!

Might be something to look at next year ;)

I’d missed Shergar from the list and admitted in another post.

That doesn’t address my question. 

You obviously can’t get your head around the concept. He was seen as being special and named in that way, following tradition.

Trainers are creatures of habit, racing is a pattern, numbers form patterns.

The last horse to try the tripple crown - Camelot 7 letters

Think that’s coincidence? That that name was used on a whim? The majestic myth and legend wasn’t hoped for the horse?

How many wanted Frankel 7 to go for the Derby after his Guineas romp?

So you see why I post 10 times in a row sometimes, tumbleweed for responses unless it’s name calling!

I do concede that a mate of mine was convinced that if you named your flapping greyhound with a horrible name that it wouldn’t attract as much money in markets and thus provide a better price when wanted.  Traf or nunk and suchlike.  Was never convinced personally.
Equally, on Shergar’s debut his named didn’t suggest to me that he was destined to win the Derby.
But if you are happy in your beliefs then I am happy for you. 
It must be your artistic bent I suppose. 

Laugh away, I’d read an article about it, that is fact based from tradition and history.

They still adhere to it today and that Camelot was chosen is NO coincidence.

If Italy is named to win the Derby then I’ll plate my own aaaahole!

You hear how they keep special names back, haven’t they done the same this year with the one that missed Ascot?

Pour Moi - 7

Beat Treasure Island = slow

Kincsem did study on it.