Heffernan

fecking hell hulk you're such a genius how aren't you a top racing manager ? Kia has missed a trick...again.

why not lay sub 1.2 on an obv shocking ride?

im curious?


They don't know until after the race that it was a bad ride Rico

how aren't you a top racing manager ?

how do you know I'm not ? 


lost again Howie.  But kudos for having a go.

You have to question all the effort and cost to bring the horse over to effectively give it such a brutal ride

I can tell from your posts you are as thick as sh1te. And apart from intellect there's probably a mental handicap angle too.

You have to question all the effort and cost to bring the horse over to effectively give it such a brutal ride and still no-one laid it IR.

can hear toyah singing.

I'd suggest you'll see plenty of similar rides in a weeks racing but not given a second glance and certainly no elongated threads but the 2/13 odds will always create opinions whether it's deemed injudicious or seen as crooked , 2/13 beaten attracts opinions whereas a 28/1 hardly ever does so all to do with the subjectively perceived skullduggery or a pocket influence.

No idea on the calibre of ride but the biggest anomaly here in my view is the winner being a debutante , nobody had much clue what to expect including it seems the connections but also the jockey of the runner up.

I'm with Howard on the observations of not over rating the runner up nor under rating the winner , time will tell on that one     

taking the p!ss out of the mentally handicapped Howard.

very poor form sir

very poor indeed.

Agree with Hayden..

yeah haven't looked but how do chesham placed ones get up to later ?   Wouldn't be confident this one would win off 85 let alone higher.

Ayr less road miles for plenty of runners

Stack trains in Tipperary.  last time i looked that wasn't anywhere near Ayr.

Janna s Journey one to follow...lots in hand and they knew...

"You have to question all the effort and cost to bring the horse over to effectively give it such a brutal ride and still no-one laid it IR."

   Looked a good opportunity Rico all that could stop them was if a newcomer was much better than average.

"Ayr less road miles for plenty of runners"  read the words yfdsc    Wasn't talking of one runner. You clearly think connections are thick.  All my bank is on you rather than them.

but we're not talking about plenty of runners.  we're talking about the one that made the enormous journey from Tipperary to bizarrely compete in an egg and spoon race round Ayr of all places.

£4,860 to the winner and they're trekking it halfway across Europe to bag that when they have a plethora of racetracks within an hour of their training base, each staging more than suitable maiden races.

tell it to their faces ydc

how much did it cost to get the horse to the track ??

how much has betfair cost you ?

I get your point hulk - though if it had been sent out in front and tried to win the race easy, as it should have done, it would be a fair thing to do sending it here, just to get the win.

But sending it here and adding the ride in, I get your point of view.

I don't know if it applied in this case but the other day JOB brought a good one over to win a similar maiden at Nottingham as it qualified for a huge bonus. like 50k or similar

something to do with Goffs iirc

Mind you looks like this one is still owned by the breeder

There is little hope for anybody who didn't think it was "stopped".
Whether it would have beaten the winner is an entirely different matter.

little hope for Howard anyway ironman.

Rico didn't think it was stopped.  opened 2/11  SP 2/13

...irons.....I didn't see "stopped".....but i did see...strangle strangle strangle...whip whip whip.....poor horse must think " what the feck DO you want? "

if people knew it wernt winning it woundnt have went near 1.16 IR...

So you keep saying Rico

All are entitled to their view on the forum

he keeps saying it cos he's right and nearly everyone else on thread talking sh1te

Have you ever ridden a race horse Howard

u muck hoy ?

Not AP but have ridden plenty

Dang...thats why you dont have shorties in a treble lol..had it in a treble with the last 2 ayr winners ..fml... Almeraq very impressive ...drifted a bit too... class act in a handicap

anyone worked shovelling sh1t at a stables= not the sharpest tool in the box

Never been an employee Howard lets leave it at that

another thommo ? worked for nowt as assistant trainer but was useful on his cv

Where are you from Howard?

Thommo hahaha... glad to see back of him..can unmute a few more races now :)

unlike u far from jaywick

The North would be my guess but it is unimportant

Stupid remark Howard is mucking out beneath you.

mucking out and mental health.  going for a hat-trick Howie ?

He's certainly on a run

If you think hulk is a good ally you are struggling irons. Fruitcakes sticking together is rife on here these days ...  it's why so many have left ...so many  Rampton cases remaining.

Merely commenting on your remarks and nothing to do with allies Howard

Watched the race a couple times fav was pulling very hard early on and clearly wanted to go faster but was restrained heavily from doing so. Bout 3 out the fav clearly looked in trouble imo but did stay on quite strongly not beaten far. Winner might be decent but just goes to show there’s no such thing as a cert. Didn’t like the ride the fav got but sh is clearly past his best. Fav beat 2nd fav easily I just think he should have not been so far back.

that's a relief irons

It's all hindsight though andy. The leader was a 28/1 shot and that's at the tight industry odds. You can often pull and cruise past such horses.  That's why Rico wanted you all to lay the fav

On page one De-Moan didn’t bet it. On page two it let him down for a treble. So many liars and bu11****s. Some can’t even remember the lies they told an hour ago!

You don’t expect horses with royal ascot form to come off the bridle in gaff track races and anyone who had 7k to win 1k or 700 to win 100 must be fuming. God only knows who backed that at 1.16 ir cos it never was travelling. I guess late on you feel it’s class would be good enough. Maybe the horse is a hard ride but it didn’t look pretty I thought it was a pish poor ride tbh.

andyl 21 Jul 25 16:23 
Watched the race a couple times fav was pulling very hard early on and clearly wanted to go faster but was restrained heavily from doing so.

arnt all hard pullers? (unless they leading)

A previous front runner and close up at Ascot.
Why would you try to hold it up andyl?

Age of Gold was 7th in last years Chesham Stakes (Class 1).  Was then targeted at a Class 2 Nursery at York, Winner: £51,540.

this one was 2nd in this years Chesham.  Next target, class 4 egg and spoon race round Ayr on a Monday afternoon.  Beaten at 2/13.

As I said I wouldn’t which is why I questioned the ride given by sh. You’re on a 1 to 7 shot why not let the horse bowl along in front. Maybe sh feared stamina doubts lol but it finished well enough. Time may tell it just bumped into a very smart horse then again

I am only delighted that it wasn't a 1.4 chance on here

I have to agree it did seem a strange move sending it to Ayr to pick up 4k could done that in Ireland. Nothing surprises me anymore with horse racing or sports but if there was one horse today you had to choose to save your life you’d be hard pushed not to have picked that one lol on form grounds.

they can regress from the royal ascot experience

100

then you may as well throw the formbook away and it becomes a lottery if you're just going to trawl out the old its maybe regressed mantra.

been up all night studying the form, oh hang on, what if it's regressed ?

it's true that the form is only part of the equation. that's why it was around 1.17 today instead of 1.01.

They can regress and there is no doubt that some do Cider.
If the horse had been allowed to race as before and got beat I would share that view.
I do not

andy , think you've just illustrated the dangers of using form as a selection criteria when there's a debutante in the race.

I'd also concur with Cider in that plenty of horses regress from a debut run , it's lazy to just accept they'll improve or indeed run again to that level.

Whats ludicrous is that if this race was run tomorrow people think the winner would be Fav mot the second.  Anyway its all opinions. If the race was run tomorrow the second would be 1.5 probably imo

RA was very hot weather, fast going, travelled from another country, second race of its life. Plenty of horses will have gone backwards after that experience. Nobody knows which once and I doubt it is evident in home work. Pays your money and takes your chance, not my kind of race to play in. Very early 2yos can be gone by now anyway. Actually I seem to recall the Stacks have a reputation for having their 2yos ready for the beginning of the season.

...Given the connections, I'm guessing the plan was to come over here for an easy win...accept an offer..and return to Tipperary with the dosh.
The newcomer ( plus jockey) buggered that up.

Agree with that racing6699 in that it would be fav again and you're probably near the mark with 1.5 who knows , then again though it might get beat again , different day and naive to believe horses and indeed jockeys perform to the best of their ability y run , neither do trainers come to that.

If run again tomorrow it might win because the jockey on the debutante rides an ill judged race , we'll never know.

That's racing , take it or leave it   

if the winner today ran in the Chesham it would be 100/1.

if travelling from another country was an issue it would seem rather odd that he would then chose an egg and spoon race in Scotland for its next run.  they do have horseracing in ireland.  they have a lot of it.

eye conquer todays race is a puzzler.

they don't know until they run again. obviously still don't know, something might come to light. horse racing is not an exact science. have they brought it over just to lay the arse off it? 999/1 imo

..Hulk.......more moneyed suckers on this side ...IF they intended to sell .

8 runners there in 5 years so he does send the occasional one up but i'd have thought it might have been to try and win more than 4 grand given how much it would cost to transport the animal.

Agree Hayden.

Horse with similar profile runs in next at Windsor….horse ran a screamer to finish a close 9th beaten 4l ish fto in royal ascot race. Belied odds of 250 to 1. Form shown should be good enough to win any average maiden

..Hulk...the filly Luminare won an egg and spoon race at Bath.....was the sold for 105,000 guineas...lovely jubbly

if the plan was to bring that over and sell it for decent dosh it wouldn't have been ridden the way it was

...fair enough mate........I'm off for a pint now anyway.

It could hack up andy as we know but can we honestly say that none of this unexposed field wouldn't have done the same , can we honestly say for certain it will improve , can we honestly say it will not regress , answer's no to all three.

Pay your money take your chance but if someone can't easily put a line through that race i'd love to what that person knows that's just a guess to me.

No easy money at this game

Not anymore

Thought Crowley impeded a few there...they d chuck that in Oz

stack 20 runners in Uk last 5 years

ayr 8, ascot 7, donny 3, 1 at chester and haydock.

winners  - nil. 

when you've sent 19 over, and they've all lost.  are you naturally inclined to send your Chesham runner up to Ayr for a 4k race ?

Illustrates another point made earlier , when horses are this unexposed we've no idea what quirkiness they possess if any because we haven't seen anywhere near enough of them , which in itself makes the race a guess whatever the odds.

Those types of races are a graveyard long term in my view but firm believer if you have to guess in those then guess big odds , at least then you won't need any sort of decent strike rate.

Small treble hardly counts as bet Kenbore ...

No bet. An hour later it let you down for a treble! Feck me!

A final point here,this horse went off at 12/1 at Ascot for the Chesham after leading Italy until close home on its debut and ran a race of promise earning a RP Rating of 99.
Do you really believe that today's winner is a 100 horse?
That's me finished for the day.
Good luck in all you do

No Irons i don't believe that but can you be certain the runner up has run up to that mark or even regressed as they can do after one run at that age.

The only way you're going to get anywhere near solving this puzzle is to give it time , even then it'll still be debatable   


Same here mate in final point made before we bore ourselves to death   

By far the best points made by Cider on this thread. Some years early season 2-y-o listed races are good and horse/s progress and sometimes not. It's a moving picture. The bottom line is people look at a horse ooh 2nd at Royal Ascot must be a certainty in a maiden.  Often they are. But sometimes a hard puller that they are trying to teach something by not letting it have it's way will still win the race despite a bad trip. You want to teach the horse something before harder races.  Often you get away with it but they met a good one today.  If I was offered one of them free I honestly would not be sure which to pick. If pushed today's winner.

De_man 21 Jul 25 17:51 
Thought Crowley impeded a few there...they d chuck that in Oz

very slightly hmp the 4th...'specsavers'.

Cardiff By The Sea, same owner trainer, another high performing 2yo at RA, another wash out. The market predicted it, but she's tiny.

The Ayr horse is not tiny by any stretch of the imagination,Cider

Cardiff By The Sea is tiny

Ergo, more predicable she would recoil as the season goes on.

Shows how tough the game is though as the same combo took the opener with a very promising one at a big price, first time up! Wash out, great run, wash out.

I didn't get involved today but the Market seemed light years in front of BFLV there

SH body language was that he knew he was going to fall in a hole before she did, I thought.

ttt

Wasn't stopped at Ayr

Market seemed to think they were happy to let St Marks Basillica break his stakes duck.