Aidan O'Brien & Ryan Moore

Always in right position.

Did lot better than the jollie combo for sure.

The jolly looked uncomfortable coming down the hill. I think the jolly would not want to go 12f again.

Sadly not as unbalanced as the 4th place (which I'd backed for top 3 of course...)

with a better balance think it could have nabbed it.

stu, learnt my lesson with top3, now i go top4

, then it's the 5th placers....

Top class

for all their dominance,plenty of slow boat workmanlike derby winners ,just watch slip anchor again,add in shergar,nashwan,troy,erhaab ,how many of AOB,s derby winners leave a memory like those horses

Ryan looking in his back MIRROR

Well done those who stuck with 12 furlong proven horses. First 2 from Chester repeated the form. I backed Stanhope Gardens first 4 and looked booked for third until the last 5 strides when 2 came past.

i backed the 3rd at 40,s ew only because VALUE + put it up last night

Well done. You wonder how good New Ground could be. Did everything wrong but would have been second in another 50 yards.

christ its about time uk trainers pulled their socks up, it aint obrien is greatest ever, its the opposition trainers bloody useless bar occassionly appleby and gosden ,    when vincent was training at least there was world class trainers around from cecil to harwood, stoute etc etc, but our lot are just happy winning bloody hcaps , and bar o murphy where are the great jockeys , were a embarrasment

And the gap will only get wider and wider. The ballydoyle middle distance bloodlines will continue to dominate for a long long time and when Aiden calls it a day his kids will continue the success.

for punters charlie johnson was a bfar better training feat ,ran 2 horse finished within 3 lengths of deach other probasbly like they do every day at home , AOB had one 25 lgth behind and the other a further 2 furlongs behind,you aint winning money 2nd guessing that

Just enjoy the greatness whilst it's around , majority hated the previous dominance by the likes of Davis , Hendry and Phil Taylor and only realized they deserved the utmost respect when they retired.

I never get tired of Aidan nor Willie dominating as it's a joy to watch , makes no difference to 99% of punters who trained the winner anyway as it's the bet that counts , take today for instance as soon as the Derby winner crossed the line at least 95% of punters would have quickly turned to look when the next race was due off.

Pointless comparing era's as it's totally subjective and that's when nostalgia rears it's ugly head to cloud our judgement , personally think that Frankel would have won the Derby if Aidan had trained him but like everyone else it's just an opinion that's meaningless and impossible to prove.

If the also rans can make some inroads in the Aidan & Willie dominance then that's great albeit difficult as their depth in quality has never existed before and maybe never will again but looking for ways to hinder them so they come back to the pack is silly in my view , lowering the bar never improved any situation.


Good luck later all   

Spot on.

it's largely down to vincent o'brien and robert sangster - they brought northern dancer's colts nijinksy and sadlers wells over from america. nijinky's line has all but died out but sadler's wells or his son's galileo and montjeu are the sires or damsire of all aidan's derby winners (and several not trained at ballydoyle).
ironically coolmore's best horse montjeu wasn't even trained at ballydoyle

Think you will find that Ryan Moore is very English! Good enough to get the top job in Ireland for the best trainer in Europe. Murphy by contrast is Irish as of course is Wayne Lordan.

AOB domination is helping to kill the classics. Look at Epsom yesterday, virtually empty. I don't consider it 'genius' as Murtagh called it yesterday. It's buying success, a numbers game and no one wants to watch a one-sided monopoly.
Coolmore don't seem to care which of theirs wins, as long as they win, similar to Mullins over jumps. And that's why 90% of AOB classic winners are instantly forgotten.
If in same ownership a yard should only be allowed to run a max of two in Group 1s. The AOB runners clearly run under 'team' instruction too which goes against the rules of Flat racing.
If Coolmore treated the wider betting public with greater respect, rather than its clandestine will run/won't run, 'the greatest racehorse since Pegasus', 'let the lads decide', Moore last minute switcheroo, or giving Lordan his day in the sun, it might be a little easier to swallow but still isn't good for Flat racing, and leads to apathy and disinterest among the viewing public.
Moore is lauded for always riding great races but he is continually riding Aston Martins in a field of inferior models. That's not to say Moore isn't a good jockey, he is, but some perspective needs to be applied.

Bang on the money Johnny, and going by the betting they landed a right touch as well.

Couldn't agree more, Johnny. And regarding Aiden, he gets off lightly with the appalling runs of his two most fancied runners.

imho, im not sure if wed  have heard of Frankel if he was trained by obrien, let alone win the derby imo wouldnt have won the derby anyway the race over 10f at ascot proved that to me v cirrus

ps i still rate Dancing brave best horse ive ever seen

elisjohn you must have watched a different champion stakes to me - frankel was going away at the end in soft ground


one does wonder what coolmore are up to. delacroix (by dubawi) was never put in the race - same for the lion (by sea the stars). then they win with one sired by their own australia.

One thing is certain,you wouldn't want to play cards with them

Frankel was going away from the french horse in the Champion and would likely have stayed 12F(especislly on decent ground).

I have no doubts whatsoever Frankel would have stayed 12f, albeit as a 4 year old. Watch his York race, TQ took furlongs to pull him up.

Henry never trained him to be a Derby horse anyway, he was still far too headstrong, the SJP showed that. Henry was the right trainer for the horse and although AOB is one of the best, i suspect if he had trained Frankel, he would have run at Epsom, got beaten and we would not be speaking of the horse the way we do now.

But,Coolmore are a breeding operation and Cecil wasn't,AIS

Impossible to say what O'brien would've done if he had Frankel.

Uptheirons,

Yes, but not sure i see the point in respect of Frankel staying 12f and Juddmonte were owned by KA anyway

Frankel progeny are more likely to stay too far rather than not far enough. This could be the result of the mares he was sent but his father, Galileo is also a strong influence for stamina and Frankel's contemporary Nathaniel, another Galileo is now seen as a jump sire despite winning the King George. Kingman seems to have the perfect blend of speed and stamina which is why he is ahead of Frankel in terms of number of GB flat winners for the last 3 seasons.