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on YouTube what ecstacsy and then heartache ...feel for em all!
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Just watched that,did look like Moores horse from that but do think She's Perfect caused it
all from the head on by drifting 1ST of all.
See what happens when they appeal.
all from the head on by drifting 1ST of all.
See what happens when they appeal.
I am dreading Royal Ascot where it is a certainty that the attention seeking Basher will be trying to maximise attention via the fellow egotistical Chapman
He'll be getting himself lined up for a role doing the social stable on ITV.
Dreadful thing jealousy tbh….who would you rather see winning…..
Uptheirons is a snob.Basher is a decent guy who wears
his heart on his sleeve.Nowt wrong with that.
his heart on his sleeve.Nowt wrong with that.
Surely the retiring,self effacing Basher wouldn't try to promote himself duffy?
prob rather see the aga team add a few more needed quid to the pot !
We shall eventually see what type of person Basher is twizzle.
By the way,how is footso?
By the way,how is footso?
Big Brother, IACGMOOH, UK entry for next years Eurovision....all on the agenda
We can all look forward to the revival of this thread when the inevitable crash and burn arrives
some don't like to see the regular guy getting on ! rather see him fail ,it hurts them to the core when they get close to upsetting the applecart!
The filly is worth a few quid to the syndicate win or lose….
A regular guy who funds the horses with other peoples money?
I don't care if he wins a classic as it would be no skin off my nose but,I can spot a chancer at a thousand paces
I don't care if he wins a classic as it would be no skin off my nose but,I can spot a chancer at a thousand paces
Iron…..syndicate members have a choice to join and pay…..
Striking similarity to a "Dance" we often saw on ITV racing?
Don't take it to heart foyles, it's nothing to do with what you're saying, it's simply that some of us don't take to those sort of antics, it's the same as people who go in for the Chapmans and Dettori's of this world and those who don't.
The boys in blue could make him an offer…..job done….
he seems ok to me but all about opinions and syndicate members of shes perfect don't look to have done too badly!
whatever outcomes he and members have had their day in the sun just unlucky the way it turned out!
It is a great shame Foyles but imo has not diminished her paddock value as things stand, could go up or down depending on future results but sure to be some juicy offers they will find hard to resist?
Does anyone know what they get? % of winnings, cash if sold. Etc
He comes across as a really nice guy, with everything that happened yesterday it was a rollercoaster of emotions and although disagree with it, I understand how it happened.
The tough times will come when the winners dry up.
He comes across as a really nice guy, with everything that happened yesterday it was a rollercoaster of emotions and although disagree with it, I understand how it happened.
The tough times will come when the winners dry up.
He gives a full explanation of what’s involved on YouTube…..
yes dealer you as an owner know the highs and lows and would have loved to be in his position yesterday with a horse with a chance in a group 1 .
It's a well used phrase but they all are living the dream.
It looks like he sells 100 shares per horse which looks fair when you consider others. Hopefully he doesn't go mad and purchase too many new horses and go too big too soon.
It looks like he sells 100 shares per horse which looks fair when you consider others. Hopefully he doesn't go mad and purchase too many new horses and go too big too soon.
Now connections have the reverse angle, they should appeal about how much interference Shes Perfect actually caused and instead cite the use of the whip by Moore and subsequent bump from Exactly as the cause of the interference to Zarigana
whatever happens those in the syndicate have had a crack at a group 1 they would have probably dreamed of it when joining up but never thought it would happen but it was a dream come true .
slightly hampered 1f out is the form comment for Zarigana which isn't correct. She was bumped by Exactly after Moore had used the whip on her. There was gap between SP and Exactly when Moore used the whip. So the French stewards either didn't watch the reverse angle or did watch it and decided to use the interference between Exactly and Zarigana to punish the winner. The word cheat isn't strong enough here!
Well as SP was crossing in front of Moore he was probably just doing Shoemark a favour by whipping his horse like that.
She didn't cross though, she edged out to the left slightly and didn't make any contact or take her racing line. The slight drift from SP and then Moore using the whip and bumping Zarigana are 2 separate incidents
not much hope with fellows agreeing his horse broke the French rules and should have been demoted but he wants the winner thrown out for BARACA using his hands as a whip 12 times after throwing whip away on purpose after the 4 permitted in France
Really? He still said that after seeing the reverse angle?
Well I can’t see any other reason for him moore whipping it that way. Also noticed that the other O’Brien entry drawn next to Moore somehow decides he is going to rein back when the stalls opened to give him a clear run, smelly.
fellow,s interview on LUCKY,s podcast this morning
I can see Fitzgerald arguing that it was Moore’s fault, failing to mention that he was just trying to get out of Shoemark’s way.
Any betting on the appeal? 4/5 and 6/4 'for and against'?
The French finally get revenge for Nureyev!.now that was a travesty..
Fair market that imp , just put me £5k on for and £3.6k on against.
To save on the messy transactions best if you just transfer £400 in my a/c , save on the paperwork.
To save on the messy transactions best if you just transfer £400 in my a/c , save on the paperwork.
'Hayden', that was merely my perceived market. I do not think any bookie will take a bet of that magnitude for obvious reasons.
I hope Zarigana will be disqualified. Her jockey contravened the whip rule with his hand.
I hope Zarigana will be disqualified. Her jockey contravened the whip rule with his hand.
Sorry 'Hayden'. I believe old age does instigate a lack of humour at times.
Hate saying this because I've been watching Basher's punting stuff on YouTube for some months now, and he seems a nice lad. But, and this is coming from someone who is easily 35 years older than he is, he possibly needs to pull back his profile a bit now. I do wonder if someone in the French racing elite does not like his ever growing media image and this was the chance to take him down a peg or two?
The D/Q was not clear cut and SP would have had the benefit of the doubt in the UK but it wasn't in the UK and it wad under France's rules of racing.
While the front-on makes it look like the D/Q was correct, the rear view does surely shed enough light on it to give the race back to SP?
As for the objection to Barcelona using his hand to slap the winning horse. Well, that opens up a real can of worms.
Surely if jocks are allowed to strike a horse with their hand unlimited times they would all give up the whip! Hence, it would seem to me that the hand is an extension of the whip and the jock thus struck the horse over the D/Q limit.
So, all in all, I believe SP might be awarded the race upon appeal - which I do not blame them making one bit. Racing is business and business is sometimes, not always, dog eat dog!
If SP does not get the race though, thoughts do turn to a revenge act for Nureyev is 1980. 45 years later!!
The D/Q was not clear cut and SP would have had the benefit of the doubt in the UK but it wasn't in the UK and it wad under France's rules of racing.
While the front-on makes it look like the D/Q was correct, the rear view does surely shed enough light on it to give the race back to SP?
As for the objection to Barcelona using his hand to slap the winning horse. Well, that opens up a real can of worms.
Surely if jocks are allowed to strike a horse with their hand unlimited times they would all give up the whip! Hence, it would seem to me that the hand is an extension of the whip and the jock thus struck the horse over the D/Q limit.
So, all in all, I believe SP might be awarded the race upon appeal - which I do not blame them making one bit. Racing is business and business is sometimes, not always, dog eat dog!
If SP does not get the race though, thoughts do turn to a revenge act for Nureyev is 1980. 45 years later!!
The whole thing about only a permitted number of "hits" on a horse is to minimise damage/hurt to the horse. If its rider hits the horse with his/her hand this is just another "object" making contact with the horse's flesh, and cannot be allowed. Otherwise, a rider can/could kick the horse's belly to encourage it to go faster. Did an Irish NH jockey not get into trouble with the IHRB for "slapping or hitting" the horse on the neck (or face) to encourage it to move?
Barzalona could have opened a precedent for jockeys if his "hand" persuasion as a substitute for losing/throwing away his whip is acceptable and unpunished. If so, others will follow in earnest for sure very, very soon.
Barzalona could have opened a precedent for jockeys if his "hand" persuasion as a substitute for losing/throwing away his whip is acceptable and unpunished. If so, others will follow in earnest for sure very, very soon.
having never owned a horse just wondering the about the appeal process , how much does it cost to appeal and if you lose the appeal do you have to pay significant costs ?
hitting or slapping a horse doesn't look or sound good we don't need any more fuel on the fire !
They will probably waste their time and money pursuing an appeal on the grounds they seem to be considering e.g slapping the horses neck not looking good. I doubt the horse felt anything different to one being slapped down the neck in celebration or leaning over the stable door and being greeted with a slap on the neck.
The optics matter not in terms of the rules for the whip, they refer to an implement not a body part, btw those saying Barca had thrown his whip away because he had used his four strikes need to take a step back or go to specsavers, no offers an appeal fails imo.
The optics matter not in terms of the rules for the whip, they refer to an implement not a body part, btw those saying Barca had thrown his whip away because he had used his four strikes need to take a step back or go to specsavers, no offers an appeal fails imo.
to be honest I only watched it live and a replay but for those who've studied it or on 1st viewing did barca using hand make uncomfortable viewing,messy viewing like Townsend kicking his irons out few weeks ago,say in comparison to the SNIPER CRACKING AWAY ?
Foyle, in this country the appeal would be heard by the independent BHA Disciplinary panel and I assume there is the equivalent in France. It is the norm for both sides to be "lawyered up" these days b4 the BHA panel. Generally by an experienced barrister. You would be looking at a couple of thousand £ each side ...there or thereabouts. Very unusual for the unsuccessful appellant to have to pay costs in UK, unless the appeal is frivolous (which this one could not possibly be). In short, you would be punting £2/3k to get the race. Not too bad given you have got 2nd prize in the bag and the value of your horse has increased massively (even if you lose appeal).
May 12, 2025 -- 3:38PM, duffy wrote:
Nothing to look at IMO, did SP cost the Fav the 2mm or so that it was beat by shifting sideways, 100% yes.
In a nutshell. The complaints are crazy, even with Fitzys reverse angle which he thought was a breakthrough just clearly shows that SP cost Zar the race. I think Zar is a very good horse and better than what we have seen so far.
thanks Donegal, yeah no harm in appealing win win situ even if the appeal fails ,whatever happens the fact is she was 1st past the post in a French guineas and as you say value has increased considerably.
lets hope they both line up at royal ascot . the rematch !
They must have a chance on appeal on the strikes issue, it doesn't matter one jot if the horse felt the smacks with the hand, that's irrelevant, the rules don't stipulate levels of force, you can't measure that, it simply a numbers game, if they discount the smacks with the hand then every jockey going forward can chuck his whip when he's used up his quota and slap the horse with his hand if need be which will open up a can of worms.
A rematch? I'd not back either. I think Zarigana is over-rated. She's good, but no superstar as her connections would like us to think. I'm more Newmarket inclined.
FOYLESWAR 13 May 25 13:45
lets hope they both line up at royal ascot . the rematch
Exactly….
lets hope they both line up at royal ascot . the rematch
Exactly….
Right, well that's the can of worms then isn't it, in the past a jockey has been done for whipping off his goggles and using them and another for using the silks on his cap, the number of strikes only applies to the whip because it was surely not thought of to consider another "item" being subsequently used, that loophole will need to be closed and the reason that the French horse will be allowed to keep the race is the authorities admitting that it was indeed a loophole.
Jockey has used goggles and cap silks that should say, don't know if they were done for using those items.
I think a rematch in the Coronation stakes at RA is very likely, and although i'm not suggesting Zarigana will win the race, i think she would beat her Longchamp rival.
As for the intended appeal, i noticed odds proposed by another poster on this thread; i would be all over no change to the result.
As for the intended appeal, i noticed odds proposed by another poster on this thread; i would be all over no change to the result.
I think they will justify the hits with the hand that the jockey had no alternative to stop the horse hanging right.
I think they will justify the hits with the hand that the jockey had no alternative to stop the horse hanging right.
the problem is the number of hits with his hand ...plus the the 4 strikes withn the pro cush/whip
regarding the possible rematch ,a lot of attention will be on the 1st and 2nd ,if a fair few runners the value will prob lie elsewhere .
Foyles
A valid point ref the 12 slaps, but do you think the stewards wouldn't have considered this on Sunday ?
A valid point ref the 12 slaps, but do you think the stewards wouldn't have considered this on Sunday ?
Highlight the rule which states you cannot slap a horse when your whip has gone as I have never seen it
they would have Andrew but we have seen plenty of appeals upheld admittedly by our stewards and the rules are different over there,who knows what went on in the stewards room ,but if you don't appeal you wont get a result ,they may still not of course but well worth a try seeing as it will only cost em a couple of grand !
highlight the rule which says you can slap a horse if you lose /throw your whip ! and how many times !
I have yet to ride a horse that would go faster for a slap than a whip but,my point remains.Show me the rule
Thing is there is rules pertaining to overuse of whip, so they are there to be broken and penalties incurred but there are probably no rules about overuse of hands etc, connections will say no rules have been broken so no penalty can be incurred.
This episode may in future cause juridstictions to maybe fetch a rule in about using hands.
This episode may in future cause juridstictions to maybe fetch a rule in about using hands.
if people feel barca gained an advantage by using his hands as a whip pretty simples really,they,ll do away with the whip,which in turn means they,ll do nothing about barca using his hands
A horse starts to drift into another horse then you use the reigns to steer the horse away from drifting further…
According to Ruby Walsh….who always makes his point the reigns are for steering…
Who is going to argue with one of the best ‘ horsemen’ to grace the Irish turf ?
The ride in question near the finish from the Frenchman was hideous viewing tbh….
According to Ruby Walsh….who always makes his point the reigns are for steering…
Who is going to argue with one of the best ‘ horsemen’ to grace the Irish turf ?
The ride in question near the finish from the Frenchman was hideous viewing tbh….
Slapping a horse like he did is something young gypsy boys would do galloping through the streets in Ireland tbh….bareback….
No jockey ever born could stop a horse from hanging if it is determined to do so.
Your racist remark about Irish Gypsies demonstrates the type of know nothing person you are Aceform
Your racist remark about Irish Gypsies demonstrates the type of know nothing person you are Aceform
Irish gypsy people will tell you they are Irish gypsy people….
And yes,most top riders will tell you different….
Did you ever hear about the Montana horseman of fifty years in the game visiting the breeders cup…
“ how the hell are some of these guys allowed to ride”…..wouldn’t give some of them a job on his farm….
Real horsemen in Montana….
And yes,most top riders will tell you different….
Did you ever hear about the Montana horseman of fifty years in the game visiting the breeders cup…
“ how the hell are some of these guys allowed to ride”…..wouldn’t give some of them a job on his farm….
Real horsemen in Montana….
Felt gutted for Basher and his team he gave them a great weekend to remember and so what if they go over the top with the celebrating not everyday you get the chance to win a Classic.The appeal will be touch and go but I hope they get it revised.
is there an official appeal yet ?
thought they were talking it through with lawyers 1st
thought they were talking it through with lawyers 1st
uptheirons 13 May 25 20:53
I have yet to ride a horse that would go faster for a slap than a whip but,my point remains.Show me the rule
I would argue that the term "whip" in this instance pertains to striking the horse per se with anything, otherwise we are in the realms of the scene in " A Few Good Men" where Cruise takes the rule book and asks where it states in the rules where the mess hall is!!!
If you have to explicitly list every item that the jockey has with him whilst on the horse that he can't use it would be ridiculous, the whip meas striking the horse with anything.
I have yet to ride a horse that would go faster for a slap than a whip but,my point remains.Show me the rule
I would argue that the term "whip" in this instance pertains to striking the horse per se with anything, otherwise we are in the realms of the scene in " A Few Good Men" where Cruise takes the rule book and asks where it states in the rules where the mess hall is!!!
If you have to explicitly list every item that the jockey has with him whilst on the horse that he can't use it would be ridiculous, the whip meas striking the horse with anything.
The Aga Khan's main focus was in France, where he was the perennial champion breeder and owner and owned Haras de Bonneval breeding farm at Le Mesnil-Mauger, Haras d'Ouilly, as well as properties in Saint-Crespin and Tupot. He was also the majority shareholder of French horse auction house Arqana.
In France, he supported Francis Graffard, Mikel Delzangles, Jean-Claude Rouget, and, until his retirement at the end of 2021, Alain de Royer-Dupre.
Meanwhile, Basher went to see what he thought was going to be the Stewards and they sent the tea boy out to speak to him.
In France, he supported Francis Graffard, Mikel Delzangles, Jean-Claude Rouget, and, until his retirement at the end of 2021, Alain de Royer-Dupre.
Meanwhile, Basher went to see what he thought was going to be the Stewards and they sent the tea boy out to speak to him.
We will see duffy. If and when Basher appeals and the grounds for it.
Meanwhile, Basher went to see what he thought was going to be the Stewards and they sent the tea boy out to speak to him.
BW and Charlie were invited to speak with the stewards as owner and trainer after the enquiry.
BW and Charlie were invited to speak with the stewards as owner and trainer after the enquiry.
I've just watched Fitzy's reverse angle clip of the French 1000G. The main instigator of the incident was Exactly (not She's Perfect) when Moore hit Exactly with the whip in his right (wrong) hand causing her to bump into Zarigana (on her left) taking Zarigana markedly to the left; She's Perfect was not involved at all.
If Moore had had his whip in the "right" hand and Exactly drifted into She's Perfect, would he then have the whip in the wrong hand.
Surley if you are between two horses there isn't a right or wrong hand.
The camera angle from behind does not save She's Perfect in my opinion.
Look at her track position when she enters the straight compared to where she is when she causes the interference.
It is a harsh and tough decision, but the correct one.
Surley if you are between two horses there isn't a right or wrong hand.
The camera angle from behind does not save She's Perfect in my opinion.
Look at her track position when she enters the straight compared to where she is when she causes the interference.
It is a harsh and tough decision, but the correct one.
Under the rules of racing in France, jockeys are permitted to use their whip four times in a race. If the whip is used more than nine times, this can result in disqualification.
However, France Galop has stated the rules only regulate the use of the whip and not use of the hand for encouragement during a race.
ok duffy
However, France Galop has stated the rules only regulate the use of the whip and not use of the hand for encouragement during a race.
ok duffy
use of the hand can lead to a ban, not a disqualification. so basher et al can console themselves that Barzelona may be forced into an 11 night vacation at Soneva Fushi in the Maldives. with the cost and any loss of earnings presumably being covered by the estate of the late Aga Khan, estimated net worth $13.3 billion.
Shes Perfect team lose appeal as Zarigana is confirmed winner
I’ve been critical of Shoemark riding, but see he did nothing wrong here. Connections and hometown decision as the Hulk pointed out powerful unit in French racing. Since the passing of the Aga they’d of waned a classic.
I don’t like the way they took all horses from Rouget after all he did for them. I don’t know how ill he is but Frankel helped Cecil focus on something else and gave him hope.
Dupre was my fav along with Delzangles - why did he fall out of favour Hulk? Something to do with Ridasynia?
I’ve seen Moore employ the side swipe manoeuvre many a time to protect the rail at Ascot, Hawkeye hung severely in Dante.
If he does that at Epsom, he might end up down the high street!
Beware any jock following that one in the Derby!
I don’t like the way they took all horses from Rouget after all he did for them. I don’t know how ill he is but Frankel helped Cecil focus on something else and gave him hope.
Dupre was my fav along with Delzangles - why did he fall out of favour Hulk? Something to do with Ridasynia?
I’ve seen Moore employ the side swipe manoeuvre many a time to protect the rail at Ascot, Hawkeye hung severely in Dante.
If he does that at Epsom, he might end up down the high street!
Beware any jock following that one in the Derby!
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