Constitution Hill, Aintree hurdle today. Win or lose ?

Nico did put himself into a position that did not help the horse; the horse needs a pilot just like a car. A car does not cause an accident unless it's a mechanical failure.

I didn't question hendo,so called greatest questioned him by default
hendo schools his fallers alot before next race,mullins said on tv he never schools a faller before his next race,just thought the 2 top trainers in the game having directly 100% opposing views on fallers would be interesting forum debate,but alas not, PENZANCE thinks your a moron for mentioning it,hislop was interested enough gobsmacked when Mullins said it,of course he could be lying

I'd side with Mr Mullins's methodology regarding fallers. I think a schooling just prior to its next race could be more productive as it will be fresher in the horse's mind.

Anyway, the most important of all CH is ok, and remain so until next season.

I hope for an overreaction when CH goes to Punchestown as I couldn't have State Manon my mind

I would be amazed if mullins doesn't school them after a fall.
It's like a child riding, if they fall off you have to make them get back on straight away so they don't dwell on it.

Everybody I know schools after a fall to restore the horse's confidence and to check it is moving freely and has not been affected by the spill.
With CH I expect Yogi has been in and done a lot of work with him and nico.

Both should target chelts Next year

Make the running or sit behind Leader , Both win they retire as Champions , would be a fitting finale for  two great horses

1 or two Prep races early next year  , Would let CH have a spin on the Flat ,as for Nico thats down to Nicky and the Owners

Hendo hits out at "ridiculous" opinions about Constitution Hill. What does he expect operating the way he's been doing eg mollycoddling, not travelled to Ireland, etc, when the horse was in his prime or well?

And now post two successive falls he wants to take Constitution Hill to Punchestown. Bizarre!

wasn't it HENDO/NICO who started the ridiculous ITS THE HURDLES FAULT,saying in an interview at aintree that the hurdles AT PUNCH WILL SUIT HIM BETTER ?

Constitution Hill fell for the second successive race in last week's Aintree Hurdle but is still set to head across the Irish Sea for a potential clash with the likes of Champion Hurdle heroine Golden Ace and State Man at Punchestown on May 2.

Henderson said: "He's fine and he's quite perky, and he's been out in his own paddock. Punchestown is the plan.

"The whole world has their opinions. Some of them are entertaining, some of them are constructive and some of them are ridiculous. Everyone's got their ideas, but those who understand know there's not a lot you can do. There are a lot of people out there telling me how to ride and train this horse, but those people have never sat on a horse in their lives."
I could not agree more

Clearly anyone with an opinion different to him hasn't got a clue.

And plenty have , more recently than him ….

If a thousand idiots say the same thing,does it make them correct?

uptheirons

Well said!

By the way,some of the comments made to Nico after the fall by some mindless racegoers were deplorable

If the hurdles at punchestown will suit Constitution Hill better maybe its owner would consider switching the horse to be trained in Ireland instead. I'll not miss him not running in the Uk until Cheltenham of Aintree. The trials are more competitive in Ireland too.

With hindsight I wonder if Hendo regrets running Constitution Hill at Aintree instead of giving him more time to recover from the fall at Cheltenham and head straight to Punchestown? I've this niggly feeling this is one wrong decision after another.

Hendo clearly has much to learn from implausible

It only takes two on here to convince 1st TP and Impossible i.e each other. FWIW NH did not blame the hurdles, he merely stated that CH had not been beaten by another horse but by the hurdles, intimating that his low jumping style caught him out which seems to be the case tbh?

One thing that is undeniable concerning the whole Constitution Hill...and I think we can best describe it as "saga" through the last few years is that there is always something.....

The one thing missing is a string of race course performances that for one reason or another do not leave more questions than answers.....

and on we go...

Hardly a secret that the horse has had health issues duffy.
Punchestown will tell us if he retains his ability.
As always,the price will dictate whether I back it but at evens or bigger I will happily pay to find out

He's probably only evens to even run there.

Istabraq fell twice in his career, both times at Leopardstown and he was one of the slickest hurdlers I have seen, can happen to the best of them.

Punchestown Champion Hurdle - (Antepost Paddy Power)
Each Way: 1/4 Odds, 2 Places

5/4 State Man
13/8 Chill
3/1 Lossie
5/1 Brighter
12/1 Golden
50/1 Winter

Can be forgiven for over 5% a runner i suppose at this stage           

No contest if CH turns up and stays up imo.

I pray to see a lunatic putting those prices up on the day

If all them turned up Hayden id love to lay Sate Man @ 5/4.

If all those turn up SM will be at least 5/1 let alone 5/4.

I'd make CH 5/4 to turn up; 1/1 to not complete; 7/4 to win. I'll make SM 2/1 if everyone turns up.

How much are you willing to lay the first and 3rd quoted Impossible?

When pricing this race up, for a variety of reasons you've got to, for the most part completely ignore this year's CH and price it on what we'd seen going into that race.

It was run modestly, completely at odds with what we expected but suiting SM who was able to pootle through the race with no pressure being applied to him, CH who would have appreciated it too checked out early but nothing suggests he wouldn't have won the race under these conditions and BDA absolutely never turned up but couldn't win unless able to compete in a race run at an end to end gallop hoping to burn the quickies late on off and Lossie wasn't even there.

A lot will depend once again on the participation of BDA and in doing so how she operates through the race and the level of pace she is able to put into it.

I said before the Champion Hurdle that I thought the BDA performance against State Man was a " Harbinger " type result and nothing during the race can persuade me otherwise i.e it was a one off, reasons unknown but obviously freakish?

hendo said in an interview on tv that the hurdles at punch would suit CH better, and then said NICO agreed with that ,no ones putting words in his mouth

You said he blamed the hurdles 1st TP, saying the Punchestown ones would suit better does not suggest he blamed hurdles for the falls, does it?

said the hurdles at punch would suit him better,if that isn't blaming the hurdles at aintree or in UK,WHAT DOES IT MEAN ?

Punchestown:

State Man 5/4

Constitution Hill 13/8 (from 2/1)

Lossiemouth 3/1

Brighterdaysahead 5/1

Golden Ace 12/1

Winter Fog 66/1

No point in semantics 1st TP, you just carry on with your incorrect interpretation of an Intelligent trainers comment.

Sometimes what works for a horse does not work for another. Sometimes one needs to think outside the box to not make the same mistake repeatedly.

CH has been mollycoddled. Now, post two successive falls Hendo wants to go to Punchestown after rushing CH for Aintree. Bizarre!

Rushing CH for Aintree? The horse barely had a race when it came down at Cheltenham.
Punchestown is the perfect opportunity for the horse to redeem itself subject to the ground not being like a paved road

Constitutio Hill has gone from Hero to Zero in my book.....Never to be trusted....Not the Superhero i thought he was going to be.

It may be best to see CH run and complete the race before abandoning ship Acey

The rats have already left the Ship up the irons.

I am already looking for the next Wonderhorse.

Brilliant by Nicky,

People having never sat on a horse,telling me how to do it.

Nicky,just get nico to sit on the horse,that might work.

A padded cell awaits you at Rampton

remove the padding

and chuck in 1stimepoofter and unbearable

The issues I've with Hendo are:-
(1) he overthinks
(2) he waffles (usually for the benefit of bookies)
(3) he mollycoddles (horse and jockey)

Just keep it simple. It's only horseracing. If anything is not to be, it's not to be. C'est la vie.

Hendo clearly has much to learn from implausible and slidingdowntheslope

Nico getting a lot of stick from X Jockey Fran Berry....Says he lacks any tactical nous.....Says he who got the boot from Ralph Beckett after barely a Season.

None of us know what the horses are thinking but it would not be at all surprising if they get bored sometimes and lose concentration. In my view CH fell on both occasions when his view of the hurdles was not as good as it should have been. If he was mine I would ask the rider to ensure that he gets a clear view of every obstacle with the right signals to get him to concentrate. If they all turn up at Punchestown on good/soft then it is still a very open contest but I was not at all impressed by BDA at Cheltenham. For me a peak form CH should win from either State Man or Golden Ace. I share the view of Jeremy Scott that State Man went very early at Cheltenham and was no certainty even if he had finished but there is no hill at Punchestown.

Morning sage, I wouldn't disagree with any of your comments,  except for CHills nearly fall at the last at Cheltenham , where he was in front and had a clear view of the hurdle.
It could so easily be three FFF , not 2 of them !

To me he would burn this opposition off from the front, over 2m.
I think nico was conserving energy at Aintree as 2m4f is probably stretching him, but over 2 miles no such worry.
He can eat BDA , stateman and the mare and not break sweat. The horse has gears and was only cantering both times he hit the deck.
Most frustrating but he lives to fight another day.

Hopefully he has learnt from his mistakes .. If he jumps he wins, surely ?
.

Perhaps he was not being given the right signal even though he was in front. Complacency by horse or rider or both? He might be different class to the rest but he still has to race properly and not doss about.

..."CH nearly fell at the last at Cheltenham.."

Did Nico not blame himself for that? I'd tend to agree with 'sageform' an unsighted/unclear hurdle had precipitated his two successive falls. As such, Hendo and Nico have had their work cut-out.

It's as simple as ABC, Mr Henderson!

Possibly the 2 falls can be attributed to different factors, Who knows ..
I imagine yogi will be in the indoor school with him and nico as they will leave no stone unturned trying to eradicate the issue.

As we know, practice makes perfect so some intensive gridwork with the pair of them would be my bet.

Am sure he will be doing plently of remedial work but as stated previously , the horse seems to have got into bad habits (he could have fallen before he did at aintree - that was a stride out when having a clear view ). Grid work undoubtedly but its an artificial process in a non race situation and its a relatively short period before Punchestown .

It's not what I would call an 'artificial process ' Paulo.  It's real !  It has no bearing on being under race conditions. It teaches the horse to listen to the riders instructions and when done loose or on a lunge or with nico dropping the reins it will make the horse think for itself and put its feet in the right place.
Then repeat and repeat until the horse can do it right every time.
It will then take the lessons learned and apply them to the racecourse at speed.

You will never learn anything doing it at racing speed.

I know that , but its still , either via placing poles , fence position , or rider aids something totally different to a race . So by ' muscle memory ' ' engaging brain ' or whatever CH  does something different on the track . My point being he doesnt have enough time to eradicate this habit . Yes Pre and After the summer break then perhaps .

It was obvious at Aintree that he had been schooled beforehand and fiddled a couple of hurdles which indicated he had learned from the schooling. The problem is if they school him too intensively to fiddle the obstacles they may dent his most potent weapon which is his slick, low hurdling?

Yep he was collecting better apart from the first after the winning line , but doing that made him quite high(as you said ) . The fall was as much positional as anything else (had just swerved out too ).Should be really interesting at Punchestown .

practice makes perfect
they don't school at 34 mph surrounded /crowded by other horses doing 34mph,and from now on presumably making it as difficult as possible for Nico aty the hurdles

Paulo, jeepers, so you know more than Yogi, Nicky and myself. You must be brilliant.

Sounds like I had better give yogi a call and tell him I've found a new expert.

In your case oneten maybe Boo Boo would be more help to temper your holier than thou BS? As far as I remember you suddenly appeared on here looking for advice on how to get your children back and now you are the resident insider expert?

No cag, if you're going to spout it , then i suggest you get your facts correct.
I've been on here since pretty much day one with the likes of Janov, Davix, Big house and Muqbil, Koo and all the others so not suddenly appeared on here at all.

No, my kids and wife are fine, don't need to get anything back thanks.
I purely asked a parenting q on the forum as I had a friend in a situation and as this forums demographic is pretty much all male I thought it might be a good place to ask so i could offer fresh ideas to help him.

Lastly, yogi was my show jumping trainer many moons ago . And as he only trains the top riders, you can draw your own conclusions as to why I consider myself more than qualified to yalk with some authority on the subject.

Is that fair enough ?

If you say so but you have spouted about reading a race on a 4" screen etc, reading a horses mind and other such drivel and yet just because you consider others beneath you expect it all to be accepted?

Yeah, I had lessons with a Badminton winner , even if I was crap . lets hope that all his remedial work pays off and he dazzles us all at Punchestown , my feeling is that its not that long and nobody wants to overtrain jumping, it only leads to injury .

Not if I say so, I can prove it.
I'm not a braggard and not going to start now. And before you misconstrue my previous comments about Yogi , I was not a show jumper. He was my show jumping trainer when I evented.
Yogi and I go way back to LS at WS.
So mars bar if you can work out the initials.

And the reason why he is so good is he can see things the horses are doing and thinking by the smallest of nuances that others cant. That is why he is so highly revered as an international coach. It is highly likely when you train with someone for many years, you'd expect some of it to rub off on you .   

Yes, I could see that horse thinking about ducking out and hanging the other week on a 7inch screen.  Probably because I've been schooled by one of the best, that I have learnt to see things in the way he does, so I'm sorry if others can't see it as well. 
But if you spend a lifetime riding at a high level then I'd expect to have picked up some skills along the way,  be pretty rubbish at it otherwise !

Or are you going to start to call Yogis qualifications into question as well ?
.

Can we at last agree that Hendo knows the game inside out and will use his vast knowledge in the interest of the horse and certainly needs no advice from anybody on here

ROFL, not a braggard but to paulo " So you think you know more than, Yogi, Nicyk and myself" ? What would you call that oneten, no honour in self praise btw.

I could cite plenty but will settle for Corky Browne and Steve Dibble, not on a par tbf but neither do I claim that my screen has grown by 3" since posting about reading a race on a 4" one.

Correct uptheirons, he has a little bit of experience behind him!!

We all know that Nicky knows best but it doesn't mean that all of us can't have our own opinion be it informed or otherwise, just like with every single other topic on the planet.

My twopenneth, the horse has fallen the last twice, was lucky the time before, so although Nicky knows best, for the moment at least the evidence shows that the problem is getting the better of him.

FWIW,I would be very surprised if Nico gets half lengthed at Punchestown

Cag, you really are a prize fool as you know how to ruin every thread you pop up on.
I'm going to go back to ignoring your posts as they are all pretty pointless and I have better things to do with my time than argue with you.

Irons , exactly the point I was trying to make to Paulo earlier on today before I got drawn in by cag.

My Apologies to all reading it for ruining this part of the thread.

That is what we expect from those who cannot handle being challenged oneten, run away. Perhaps Impossible 123 is waiting to engage you again in World affairs and economics, seemingly another area of expertise you have?

Tbf apart from 1st TP you are the only one who does engage with Impossible, speaks volumes.

'Cag' is a timewaster. Best to "ignore".

and you are a waste of time

Don't think I've ever read imp randomly insulting anyone though, counts for a lot in my book.

This is sadly what happens when cag gets into a thread .. it descends into open warfare and the thread is spoilt.

Thanks Imp, sensible advice.
Mitolo - I apologised for dropping the tone in the thread so please don't you copy me and do it as well ! Thank you

Duffy yes and I agree with your 3.28 post 100%. Hendo will have it sorted I have no doubt. Just seeing the way he worked with Shishkin when he had 2nd thoughts about starting. The man is at the top for so long with good reason.

Paulo, apologies I was so busy to-ing and fro-ing with cag, that I missed your earlier post. I didn't realise you were a rider, as I would have explained differently.  I thought I was discussing with non horsey folk.
Who did you have lessons with ? Are you still riding ?
.

“It is our intention to come to Punchestown,” said Henderson, who is no stranger to the winner’s enclosure at the Kildare track.

“It was my original plan after Cheltenham and then, he was so well, I couldn’t say no to Aintree. Thankfully, I think he’s come out of that very well and we’ve got four weeks to Punchestown. It was only three weeks from Cheltenham to Aintree.

“And don’t forget, in neither race has he actually had a race. He is very fresh at the moment. He’s as fresh as paint here. He’s in terrific shape.

“It’s a long way to go and I can’t tell you anything else at the moment, but we think he’s in good nick and all being well, we will be in Punchestown. We are looking forward to going.
It’s meant to be a great clash of two great horses – State Man and Constitution Hill – and they deserve to have a head-to-head. And we may have more if Lossiemouth, Golden Ace and Brighterdaysahead are there.

I think everyone has been talking about State Man and Constitution Hill and want to find out what happens if they turn into the straight together. Wow! That’s what it’s all about. It would be fantastic. Everybody deserves it and we would love to have that in Punchestown.”

From Nicky interview yesterday .

A mouthwatering clash that will materialise and hopefully all will manage to complete the course this time.
We have all been waiting a very long time..

A mouthwatering clash that will materialise and hopefully all will manage to complete the course this time.
We have all been waiting a very long time......Not for me oneten Punchestown has alays been one Festival to many where you can throw the form book right oot the window....Cheltenham is where it is at.... Not Punchestown.

We have heard the same thing twice this year already and both times have been damp squibs, will Mullins run Lossie or go for the easier prize money again? The only result worth anything will be CH stuffing them all if they turn up otherwise it will just be how he is not as good as he was and the winner will be forgotten.

Btw acey , do you get the feeling that we have no clue about racing and riding such is the depth of knowledge and experience on this thread? Tbh still trying to fathom how dressage might tie in with reading races, any idea?

All opinions welcome CagliariG.

LOL, that would be the norm tbf, seems though that OP gets upset if an opinion is contrary.

e.g 4" or 7"? lol

Acey, I know , and would normally agree . But (there is a but !) needs must .
I wish it was Cheltenham,  but sadly it wasn't to be. I wish it had been Aintree,  but it wasn't to be....  So please may the racing gods shine on us all and give us racing fans the main protagonists in the duel we so need

It sounds that Nicky is well up for it and he wants a dust up. Fighting talk from his corner, he has come out all guns blazing.

I just hope for all our sakes that the others get there and it's on.  It's been a trying season waiting to see if he is still the superstar we saw before.

.

Oneten Cindy Llewellyn amongst others , didnt start till 45 and horse now 31 so not any more . Plus you and others may or may not think its relevant but have watched around 150,000 to 200,000 of my various top grade Agility dogs jumps in all conditions and surfaces , Crufts , Olympia etc . Obviously they find it easier than horses (better height/weight ratio ) but they jump up to withers+50% and I think it has relevance .I also think that horse confirmation and collection ability has too.

I'd wait until he actually shows up. Hendo has been bookie-talking once too often.

I like Galopin Des Champ (if he shows) esp if the ground is good to soft or softer; the surprise entry is Fact To File for the Irish Champion Chase. JP or Mr Mullins's instigation?

Woof,woof paulo.
The latest in clueless mprons

I cant believe im going to lower myself to your level and waste 10 minutes of my time on you when there are decent posters to reply to, but since you are like an impotent snake that slithers its way around the forum like an unwanted dose of the pox, I will answer and prove you wrong again.
(Though its so tedious doing this). 


It shows how petty and pathetic you are when the only thing you can pull me up on is I said I watched a race on a mobile phone with a 4" screen.  So after you brought it up yesterday I went online and checked my phones screen size.  Now I've wasted 2 mins of my life online and it says the screen is 6.8inches, so I corrected myself and informed you it was a 7" screen.


You were asking Acey how dressage could help me when watching a race ? If you are asking that then you really are more stupid than I thought. 
After I didn't make the British event team I went racing instead as that was my passion, (jumping fences at speed) and did as all amateurs do and got a job as assistant trainer, it was to one of the best gambling trainers (and he won a lot of big races).

Not that its any of your business.  Now I am now back in real life as I have a family to support I run a business manufacturing in the FE and importing what we manufacture (And no, Im not telling you what) into the UK from predominately China and Vietnam. 
Which is why I commented on another thread as I know what the wages are in China as I have a China office and have to pay import duty (Tariffs) and VAT on the containers we bring into the UK.   
That is why I said to someone on another thread about tariffs as it was obvious the  poster had no knowledge of the subject, so as a friendly forumite I dont mind sharing some knowledge if its on a topic which I know about.
As my "real" job encompasses tariffs from China, I added some info to help them have some understanding about how importing goods from the FE works as I suppose its not really that common a field.   

I wont make the same mistake again and get suckered in by your pathetic games so I am blocking you, as you really are a waste of space and the forum would be a far better place without you.


Apologies in advance to anyone else who has had to read this drivel, I promise I wont be sucked in again.

Paulo, I dont know her, sorry.  I don't think she won badminton did she, or were you referring to someone else you had lessons with ?

To me the difference between dogs and horses jumping is that you have to train a dog, whereas a horse has a jockey on board telling it what to do and when.
So in my opinion your references to what you refer to as early taking off syndrome wouldn't apply to a horse, because its being ridden. The point of the jock is to tell it when to take off.

One ten,fantastic,

This is the why sometimes the forum is a great read.all human life,opinions,endeavours spill into  a thread.

Yes it might be a wind up,or maybe it’s all your accounts.

It’s not drivel,and please get sucked in again.its great  reading.

And why not have your two penath,
That’s your choice,post with passion or shrug shoulders and say,can’t be ars ed,

Oneten appears intellectually challenged which may explain his propensity for attempting to patronise his superiors i.e 1st TP and Impossible. Obviously has an inferiority complex which requires him to react with a rant full of nonsense and contradiction i.e Won't be getting sucked in and then writing a novel about how great he is?

Most normal people would simply argue the points disagreed with but seemingly incapable of understanding what a Forum is. HTH oneten

LOL

Against my better judgement I've splashed out 25p on him at 7/4 for the Punchestown Champion Hurdle in a 5-event acca. This usually is the kiss-of-death. Potential backer beware!

on this seasons form the chances of BDA,CH,ST MAN and lossiemouth all running their races at the same time must be less than zero, like a northern 5 furlong handicap it,ll be a case of who,s today is it today,even if you considered a decider who would you want/hope to win in deciding WHO,S THE BEST 2 mile hurdler,the losers would just blame course,ground, run of race,jumping etc and at least one will  say cant wait to take the winner on again,blah,blah

"who's turn is it today". A village is clearly missing an idiot

Xmas had con hill
irish champ BDA
aintree hurd lossie
ch had, golden ace
state man

what else would you call it ?

so what horse in the last race of a long season,would you claim to be the best 2 miler hurdler in BRITIAN ,if it won ?

CH is undoubtedly the best

exactly you've made your mind up and if doesn't win at punches town you,ll come up with a list of excuses why it didn't and is still the best, same as you said pre chelt,aintree and still claiming its the best

There will be no excuses barring a fall and the closest State Man should get is in the Paddock