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11 of the 18 runners. Are there any cases of a trainer having more than that in a single race?
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Data source: https://www.horseracebase.com/
19.11.23 Navan 2:30 - Gordon Elliott - 14 runners; 22.04.19 Fairyhouse 5.00 - Gordon Elliott - 12 runners;
28.04.18 Punchestown - 5.35 Willie Mullins - 13 runners; 02.04.18 Fairyhouse - 5.00 - Gordon Elliott - 13 runners.
19.11.23 Navan 2:30 - Gordon Elliott - 14 runners; 22.04.19 Fairyhouse 5.00 - Gordon Elliott - 12 runners;
28.04.18 Punchestown - 5.35 Willie Mullins - 13 runners; 02.04.18 Fairyhouse - 5.00 - Gordon Elliott - 13 runners.
I dont mind a trainer having a dozen,but when we all no at least 6,7,8 of them will be beaten a distance it doesn't do the game any good, why does the best trainer have to run horses he must no are going to get beat miles,owners don't pay what Mullins charges for a social horse at chelt,you might as well send it to someone in Yorkshire to train for a 3rd of the price Mullins charges
to no how many even Mullins 2nd,3rd best win these races , Danny Mullins had his 1st chelt winner for Mullins yesterday in a handicap hurdle
Racing
Will Willie Mullins, with nothing left to prove, bow out after Cheltenham? Don’t bet on it
Champion trainer has transformed the face of National Hunt racing and begins Cheltenham next week on 103 festival victories
Sat Mar 08 2025 - 06:00
It’s a question only a tiny sporting elite ever face – what to do next after you’ve won it all. Alexander famously blubbed when he had no more worlds to conquer. Emotional incontinence isn’t Willie Mullins’s style, though, and he shows no sign of loosening his grip on the Cheltenham Festival anytime soon.
It is 30 years since the man who has changed the face of National Hunt racing saddled his first winner at the biggest meeting of the year. Tourist Attraction landed the 1995 Supreme Novices Hurdle at 25/1.
Her 38-year-old trainer had taken out a license six years before and still juggled training with riding. In 1996 he rode his third Cheltenham winner as a jockey on Wither Or Which. He was a good rider, champion amateur in Ireland six times. But what followed has proved transformational.
The year before Tourist Attraction, the story of Danoli and Tom Foley captivated racing. A year after it, Imperial Call and his idiosyncratic ex-soldier trainer Fergie Sutherland did the same. Such plucky underdog stories are all but impossible to imagine at Cheltenham any more. The Mullins revolution has dragged the old game into the modern age. Success has bred levels of success that once would have been unthinkable.
Last year Mullins crashed through the “century” mark of Cheltenham Festival winners. He’s on 103 ahead of next week’s action. In 2022 he had 10 winners in a single week. There isn’t a race of note he hasn’t won at least once. Galopin Des Champs, the horse labelled his crowning glory, can join Arkle as a triple-Gold Cup winner this Friday.
[ It’s 100 and counting as Willie Mullins continues stunning Cheltenham runOpens in new window ]
Statistically, perhaps the broader impact of that revolution is underlined by him being champion trainer in both Ireland and Britain right now. More than 4,500 winners in Ireland alone is an all-time record here. Echoing broader trends, a concentration of ownership resources into a handful of training yards means that Mullins has become the most super of superpowers.
To do all this and not generate significant personal animosity in a backbiting business is a dexterous double. Always “William” to his late mother, he is invariably Willie to everyone else. He is an approachable sporting titan. Just as deft a double is how rare it is to get a peek behind the personable exterior and glimpse the driving professional ambition lurking underneath.
Results are the greatest evidence of those understated competitive instincts, and they show no sign of waning. Mullins will be 69 in September. He had big heart surgery in 2019. His son Patrick, the most successful amateur rider of all time, is 35 and an obvious heir apparent. Then again, you’re a long time retired. His English rival Nicky Henderson is 74 and still up for the fight.
“There are three questions always being asked. Will he ever stop? Will he do a joint license with Patrick? Or will he just keep going?” says a friend who has known Mullins for over 50 years. “I would be inclined to say he’ll keep going. His father did.”
Paddy Mullins, the patriarch of one of racing’s most accomplished families, officially retired 20 years ago at the age of 86. Declining health at the end meant his youngest son Tom did much of the heavy lifting. They even enjoyed classic success on the flat during that time. The old man’s eldest son has also won a Curragh classic, but stamina is the family foundation.
There’s also the reality that the cornerstone of the most successful operation in racing history is ultimately rooted in one man’s eye for a horse. A team of talent scouts and buyers focus on every point-to-point in Ireland and juvenile hurdle in France. All of it, though, ultimately depends on a thumbs up or down from the boss.
“He’s always training off his eye,” Patrick Mullins has said of his father who can have up to 250 horses in his Co Carlow yard at any one time. “He doesn’t have lists. He’s on the gallop every morning looking at the horses. That’s always been impressed upon me, that you have to be looking at them every day to see how they’re handling the training.”
Learn more
Having built up an unparalleled system, the idea of retirement any time soon is surely a big-odds outsider. That’s almost as unappealing a prospect for the opposition as facing into the task of trying to beat 70-odd Mullins runners next week.
A night out with him is not a racing night. He can talk about anything ... He has a wide knowledge and he’s very good on other sports, particularly rugby. He’s also very good on history. He loves history
— Michael O’Donoghue
Recently retired trainer Michael Hourigan says the sport is almost unrecognisable from 30 years ago when he was ruling the roost with stars such as Dorans Pride and Beef Or Salmon. Much of that is due to the man he knew as a kid when riding a winner for Paddy Mullins 60 years ago. He can’t see why the relentless drive for success should start to slip in his former colleague’s case.
“It would be hard to stop when he’s so successful. It’s all running as a well-timed machine,” says Hourigan.
“He has great staff, honourable staff, fellahs that would die for him. That’s a great sign of a fellah. He’s very honourable himself. Paul Townend stood in the shadows for years and eventually fell into Ruby’s boots. David Casey is still there too. He doesn’t step outside his own yard looking for jockeys. If you’ve a fellah in the yard, you can have words with him tomorrow but not on the racecourse. It will reward you the next day,” he adds.
[ Mullins delivers Dublin Racing Festival one-two as shadow boxing with Horse Racing Ireland continuesOpens in new window ]
Reports of Mullins losing his cool are rare, although apparently it can be an impressive sight. Much more recognisable are cool diplomatic skills that have allowed him build up a list of hugely rich owners with the financial clout to buy the raw material on which everything relies.
“You couldn’t have a row with him. But you can get a sort of indifference. At the end of it all, though, he’d shrug the shoulders or hold the hands out like the police ‘OK, that’s your way – this is my way.’ And it’s forgotten. He never holds grudges,” explains his friend, the former Turf Club stipendiary steward, Michael O’Donoghue.
That capacity famously paid off when Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary removed 60 horses in a dispute over an increase in training fees. Mullins wished O’Leary well, filled the boxes with other eager owners and squashed talk of a decline by accelerating his success rate even more. In 2022, O’Leary sheepishly returned to the fold. Mullins contented himself by just saying – “We had a difference of opinion.”
Fighting your corner with Mullins on racing is a long shot at the best of times, but it’s also notable the ease with which he switches from professional to personal. Switching off includes a night out with friends at his local hostelry in Leighlinbridge. The old wooden jockeys board with his name on it, that used to be displayed at race meetings, hangs over his favourite table.
“He doesn’t talk much about horses when he goes out. There would be no big interrogation about what you’re running tomorrow, or last winner he had. A night out with him is not a racing night. He can talk about anything – the economy, politics, travel, different countries. He has a wide knowledge and he’s very good on other sports, particularly rugby. He’s also very good on history. He loves history,” O’Donoghue says.
Since Mullins is rewriting racing’s record books with every passing year, an appreciation for the historical context involved might spur him on even more.
Will Willie Mullins, with nothing left to prove, bow out after Cheltenham? Don’t bet on it
Champion trainer has transformed the face of National Hunt racing and begins Cheltenham next week on 103 festival victories
Sat Mar 08 2025 - 06:00
It’s a question only a tiny sporting elite ever face – what to do next after you’ve won it all. Alexander famously blubbed when he had no more worlds to conquer. Emotional incontinence isn’t Willie Mullins’s style, though, and he shows no sign of loosening his grip on the Cheltenham Festival anytime soon.
It is 30 years since the man who has changed the face of National Hunt racing saddled his first winner at the biggest meeting of the year. Tourist Attraction landed the 1995 Supreme Novices Hurdle at 25/1.
Her 38-year-old trainer had taken out a license six years before and still juggled training with riding. In 1996 he rode his third Cheltenham winner as a jockey on Wither Or Which. He was a good rider, champion amateur in Ireland six times. But what followed has proved transformational.
The year before Tourist Attraction, the story of Danoli and Tom Foley captivated racing. A year after it, Imperial Call and his idiosyncratic ex-soldier trainer Fergie Sutherland did the same. Such plucky underdog stories are all but impossible to imagine at Cheltenham any more. The Mullins revolution has dragged the old game into the modern age. Success has bred levels of success that once would have been unthinkable.
Last year Mullins crashed through the “century” mark of Cheltenham Festival winners. He’s on 103 ahead of next week’s action. In 2022 he had 10 winners in a single week. There isn’t a race of note he hasn’t won at least once. Galopin Des Champs, the horse labelled his crowning glory, can join Arkle as a triple-Gold Cup winner this Friday.
[ It’s 100 and counting as Willie Mullins continues stunning Cheltenham runOpens in new window ]
Statistically, perhaps the broader impact of that revolution is underlined by him being champion trainer in both Ireland and Britain right now. More than 4,500 winners in Ireland alone is an all-time record here. Echoing broader trends, a concentration of ownership resources into a handful of training yards means that Mullins has become the most super of superpowers.
To do all this and not generate significant personal animosity in a backbiting business is a dexterous double. Always “William” to his late mother, he is invariably Willie to everyone else. He is an approachable sporting titan. Just as deft a double is how rare it is to get a peek behind the personable exterior and glimpse the driving professional ambition lurking underneath.
Results are the greatest evidence of those understated competitive instincts, and they show no sign of waning. Mullins will be 69 in September. He had big heart surgery in 2019. His son Patrick, the most successful amateur rider of all time, is 35 and an obvious heir apparent. Then again, you’re a long time retired. His English rival Nicky Henderson is 74 and still up for the fight.
“There are three questions always being asked. Will he ever stop? Will he do a joint license with Patrick? Or will he just keep going?” says a friend who has known Mullins for over 50 years. “I would be inclined to say he’ll keep going. His father did.”
Paddy Mullins, the patriarch of one of racing’s most accomplished families, officially retired 20 years ago at the age of 86. Declining health at the end meant his youngest son Tom did much of the heavy lifting. They even enjoyed classic success on the flat during that time. The old man’s eldest son has also won a Curragh classic, but stamina is the family foundation.
There’s also the reality that the cornerstone of the most successful operation in racing history is ultimately rooted in one man’s eye for a horse. A team of talent scouts and buyers focus on every point-to-point in Ireland and juvenile hurdle in France. All of it, though, ultimately depends on a thumbs up or down from the boss.
“He’s always training off his eye,” Patrick Mullins has said of his father who can have up to 250 horses in his Co Carlow yard at any one time. “He doesn’t have lists. He’s on the gallop every morning looking at the horses. That’s always been impressed upon me, that you have to be looking at them every day to see how they’re handling the training.”
Learn more
Having built up an unparalleled system, the idea of retirement any time soon is surely a big-odds outsider. That’s almost as unappealing a prospect for the opposition as facing into the task of trying to beat 70-odd Mullins runners next week.
A night out with him is not a racing night. He can talk about anything ... He has a wide knowledge and he’s very good on other sports, particularly rugby. He’s also very good on history. He loves history
— Michael O’Donoghue
Recently retired trainer Michael Hourigan says the sport is almost unrecognisable from 30 years ago when he was ruling the roost with stars such as Dorans Pride and Beef Or Salmon. Much of that is due to the man he knew as a kid when riding a winner for Paddy Mullins 60 years ago. He can’t see why the relentless drive for success should start to slip in his former colleague’s case.
“It would be hard to stop when he’s so successful. It’s all running as a well-timed machine,” says Hourigan.
“He has great staff, honourable staff, fellahs that would die for him. That’s a great sign of a fellah. He’s very honourable himself. Paul Townend stood in the shadows for years and eventually fell into Ruby’s boots. David Casey is still there too. He doesn’t step outside his own yard looking for jockeys. If you’ve a fellah in the yard, you can have words with him tomorrow but not on the racecourse. It will reward you the next day,” he adds.
[ Mullins delivers Dublin Racing Festival one-two as shadow boxing with Horse Racing Ireland continuesOpens in new window ]
Reports of Mullins losing his cool are rare, although apparently it can be an impressive sight. Much more recognisable are cool diplomatic skills that have allowed him build up a list of hugely rich owners with the financial clout to buy the raw material on which everything relies.
“You couldn’t have a row with him. But you can get a sort of indifference. At the end of it all, though, he’d shrug the shoulders or hold the hands out like the police ‘OK, that’s your way – this is my way.’ And it’s forgotten. He never holds grudges,” explains his friend, the former Turf Club stipendiary steward, Michael O’Donoghue.
That capacity famously paid off when Ryanair boss Michael O’Leary removed 60 horses in a dispute over an increase in training fees. Mullins wished O’Leary well, filled the boxes with other eager owners and squashed talk of a decline by accelerating his success rate even more. In 2022, O’Leary sheepishly returned to the fold. Mullins contented himself by just saying – “We had a difference of opinion.”
Fighting your corner with Mullins on racing is a long shot at the best of times, but it’s also notable the ease with which he switches from professional to personal. Switching off includes a night out with friends at his local hostelry in Leighlinbridge. The old wooden jockeys board with his name on it, that used to be displayed at race meetings, hangs over his favourite table.
“He doesn’t talk much about horses when he goes out. There would be no big interrogation about what you’re running tomorrow, or last winner he had. A night out with him is not a racing night. He can talk about anything – the economy, politics, travel, different countries. He has a wide knowledge and he’s very good on other sports, particularly rugby. He’s also very good on history. He loves history,” O’Donoghue says.
Since Mullins is rewriting racing’s record books with every passing year, an appreciation for the historical context involved might spur him on even more.
What's wrong here for me is that he's allowed to run horses that have never run over hurdles in this Gr. 1, that's unethical and I would have thought, unfair on the horse being thrown in at the deep end. Smacks of wanting to give the owners a day out at Cheltenham.
All runners should have reached a certain level to compete.
So much for horse welfare, but once again, anything goes here.
All runners should have reached a certain level to compete.
So much for horse welfare, but once again, anything goes here.
copying a post from another thread, how times have changed . Looking at that clip from the 1989 festival posted by elisjohn, I found this from the TV listings on the first day.
Cheltenham Festival
Over the next three days
120,000 people are expected to attend the 1989 National
Hunt Festival at Cheltenham. Over 300 horses will compete including more than 30 from Ireland.
Cheltenham Festival
Over the next three days
120,000 people are expected to attend the 1989 National
Hunt Festival at Cheltenham. Over 300 horses will compete including more than 30 from Ireland.
Completely agree Smoky Hill. IF this was a small / lesser trainer can you imagine the uproar?
Can remember maybe 10 years ago someone running a 250-1 poke in a race and commentators saying it shouldn't be there and hope it doesn't get in the way. I wonder if they call Mullins up on this?
Really hope the class horse shines through and he doesn't ruin the race with the inexperienced horses getting in the way / bringing other horses down.
All the other horses in the race have ran at least 2 times from the other trainers. Seems almost a lack of respect really for the other owners / trainers, bet if had an odds on shot in the race he wouldn't have fielded this many inexperienced horses.
Can remember maybe 10 years ago someone running a 250-1 poke in a race and commentators saying it shouldn't be there and hope it doesn't get in the way. I wonder if they call Mullins up on this?
Really hope the class horse shines through and he doesn't ruin the race with the inexperienced horses getting in the way / bringing other horses down.
All the other horses in the race have ran at least 2 times from the other trainers. Seems almost a lack of respect really for the other owners / trainers, bet if had an odds on shot in the race he wouldn't have fielded this many inexperienced horses.
What's wrong here for me is that he's allowed to run horses that have never run over hurdles in this Gr. 1, that's unethical and I would have thought, unfair on the horse being thrown in at the deep end. Smacks of wanting to give the owners a day out at Cheltenham.
nice day out
nice day out
These threads never cease to conjur forum curses !
Should have dutched all running their first race !
lol. well that doesn't shut me up as it's not vindicated by this result, which is wrong on every level. It insults the gr. 1 grading, what's the point of it? besides other reasons given earlier.
On the W Mullins website for this horse it says ''will make a nice horse next year''..
No form to go on, just plays into the hands of the bookies, which begs the question, why bother?
On the W Mullins website for this horse it says ''will make a nice horse next year''..
No form to go on, just plays into the hands of the bookies, which begs the question, why bother?
only 10 jocks refused that ride and jonmjo,s asgentr told him to refuse it and go to Donny 
Mar 14, 2025 -- 2:40PM, elisjohn wrote:
MULLINS AND OBRIEN DESTROYING THE SPORT
Greatness doesn't destroy, greatness givers rise to new developments.
No bet here but the sport is dying and that sport is a side effect.
The attendances show people are sick of it. Its not only the cost.
I took to racing in the year Hardy Eustace won his 2nd CH. Racing was great and competitive and horses were spread out amongst plenty of trainers
These days its total domination by a couple of trainers and Its absolutely killing the sport.
The attendances show people are sick of it. Its not only the cost.
I took to racing in the year Hardy Eustace won his 2nd CH. Racing was great and competitive and horses were spread out amongst plenty of trainers
These days its total domination by a couple of trainers and Its absolutely killing the sport.
I am sorry Smoky but saying what you said about Mullins running a flat horse first time up in a G1 Juvenile is a bit wide of the mark.
I should imagine he and plenty of other Irish trainers have done it many times before at Leopardstown.
I seem to remember Paul Nic has done it with Zarkandar.
Think he won the Adonis straight after being bought off the Aga Khan.
Hendo I am pretty sure has done something similar too.
I take the point about the concentration of good animals in just one yard.
It is frustrating.
Maybe one thing the BHA could look at is to alter the rules of selection in the event of a race being oversubscribed with entrants.
So instead of going on the handicap ratings, horses would be balloted out if the trainer or owner has more than one entrant.
That might concentrate a few minds.
If the race is not over-subscribed then let Mullins enter as many as he likes.
I should imagine he and plenty of other Irish trainers have done it many times before at Leopardstown.
I seem to remember Paul Nic has done it with Zarkandar.
Think he won the Adonis straight after being bought off the Aga Khan.
Hendo I am pretty sure has done something similar too.
I take the point about the concentration of good animals in just one yard.
It is frustrating.
Maybe one thing the BHA could look at is to alter the rules of selection in the event of a race being oversubscribed with entrants.
So instead of going on the handicap ratings, horses would be balloted out if the trainer or owner has more than one entrant.
That might concentrate a few minds.
If the race is not over-subscribed then let Mullins enter as many as he likes.
I'm not blaming him for running whatever he wants, it's the rules of the race, which is a gr. 1. Untried horses should not be in it, imo. but I'm blaming the BHA for lax rules. This is a 4yo championship event.
Compare the 3yo equivalent on the flat, the Derby.
''the BHA Handicapper is satisfied that the horse's racecourse performances up to and including 31 May merit a provisional assessment of 80 or higher. Horses which have not run will not be eligible.''
It seems to be O'Brien controls the Derby, can't have no hopers interfering with his blue bloods, if I recall it was his interventions that brought about this rule, which might be seen as elitist. 5 of the first 6 in the betting are his.
Over jumps it seems Mullins controls the narrative.
Compare the 3yo equivalent on the flat, the Derby.
''the BHA Handicapper is satisfied that the horse's racecourse performances up to and including 31 May merit a provisional assessment of 80 or higher. Horses which have not run will not be eligible.''
It seems to be O'Brien controls the Derby, can't have no hopers interfering with his blue bloods, if I recall it was his interventions that brought about this rule, which might be seen as elitist. 5 of the first 6 in the betting are his.
Over jumps it seems Mullins controls the narrative.
Dont know about WPM controlling the narrative.
I think his greatest skill seems to be his ability to 'manage up' on all the owners he has attracted to the game.
Because of its low corporation tax, Ireland has a very large number of wealthy individuals. I think only the likes of Switzerland and a number of other tax havens have a higher GDP per capita in Europe.
When Gigginstown left him in the lurch about a decade ago, that seemed to concentrate his mind. He found new owners and he hasn't looked back.
I do know that President Trump is very frustrated at the number of US tech companies who have based themselves in the Emerald Isle, that low rate of tax again being the cause.
Trumpy's stated aim is to get them all back on US soil. Which is why he is messing around with all these tariffs. Hoping he can offset import taxes when he gets around to matching Ireland's low tax regime.
So if anyone is going to ki-bosh Mullins it may well be the POTUS. I wouldnt hold my breath about the racing authorities doing anything to challenge the Closutton dominance.
I think his greatest skill seems to be his ability to 'manage up' on all the owners he has attracted to the game.
Because of its low corporation tax, Ireland has a very large number of wealthy individuals. I think only the likes of Switzerland and a number of other tax havens have a higher GDP per capita in Europe.
When Gigginstown left him in the lurch about a decade ago, that seemed to concentrate his mind. He found new owners and he hasn't looked back.
I do know that President Trump is very frustrated at the number of US tech companies who have based themselves in the Emerald Isle, that low rate of tax again being the cause.
Trumpy's stated aim is to get them all back on US soil. Which is why he is messing around with all these tariffs. Hoping he can offset import taxes when he gets around to matching Ireland's low tax regime.
So if anyone is going to ki-bosh Mullins it may well be the POTUS. I wouldnt hold my breath about the racing authorities doing anything to challenge the Closutton dominance.
Trump is Henry VIII reincarnate, or he'd like to be so.
Perhaps make the race a gr. 2 if it has to remain open to all. I think it insults punters, personally, and whilst I got egg on my face over Poniros, I was proved right with his other untried runner Pappano, who was pulled up after some ''novicey'' jumping.
Saying that, what's the most astonishing thing about this year's Cheltenham? No, not the Irish dominance, that's a given, but the lack of fallers in the hurdles, apart from 3. Constitution Hill, State Man and 4yo French Champion Gala Marceau. You couldn't make that up, could you?
Perhaps make the race a gr. 2 if it has to remain open to all. I think it insults punters, personally, and whilst I got egg on my face over Poniros, I was proved right with his other untried runner Pappano, who was pulled up after some ''novicey'' jumping.
Saying that, what's the most astonishing thing about this year's Cheltenham? No, not the Irish dominance, that's a given, but the lack of fallers in the hurdles, apart from 3. Constitution Hill, State Man and 4yo French Champion Gala Marceau. You couldn't make that up, could you?
Totally bizarre.
I guess the only half-ersed explanation I could come up with is maybe the jockeys of those 3 champions wanted it so badly they just asked their horses for too much.
Pressure sometimes plays tricks on the mind.
I guess the only half-ersed explanation I could come up with is maybe the jockeys of those 3 champions wanted it so badly they just asked their horses for too much.
Pressure sometimes plays tricks on the mind.
If they limit the number of horses that a trainer can have in training, lets say to 50, then the trainers would have to be more selective about horses they declare as being trained by them. So the max number of runners they could have at Cheltenham for example would be limited. Unless they start specializing in 4yold hurdlers or 3 mile handicappers they won't have too many runners in any particular race. Even if they set up satellite yards it would spread the winners, and win/place money around.
That would be fun cacique, I think 100 is a good figure, but when you look at the Gosden's and Haggas's, you know that's not going to happen... we struggle with limits in the UK in most aspects of life, and of course Mullins and co. are in an E.U country so nothing really to do with us what they do, although racing jurisdictions do tend to copy one another.
Plenty of British trainers will be raiding France this year starting tomorrow at St. Cloud and Lyon on Sunday, although to be fair Amy Murphy has already relocated to Chantilly. Their 2yo, listed and gr. 3's are often weak and ripe for competition. Locals must get peed off with it.
Plenty of British trainers will be raiding France this year starting tomorrow at St. Cloud and Lyon on Sunday, although to be fair Amy Murphy has already relocated to Chantilly. Their 2yo, listed and gr. 3's are often weak and ripe for competition. Locals must get peed off with it.
plenty of money spent by English owners/trainers but ,2they've decided to swerve a social runner at chelt and oly run if they think they can be competitive, yesterday 100,s winner was a one off and Townsend alone rarely picks the wrong one in novice hurdles let alone 4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,Mullins best winning,so if beating 1,2,3,4,5,6,7 of the so called genius of the sports horses is considered been competitive we could have 30 t0 40 running in every novice some of Mullins are beaten by a furlong
why would it not happen Smoky?
The assistants would just become satellite yards, and these are already happening, only difference is they all run for Mullins.
It would also bring a different training fee because if your horse is not good enough to be trained by Haggas, and is with one of the assistants, there would be training fee adjustment.
Or following from Dettori's tax issue, could HMRC not introduce a scheme of their own to give tax benefit if people had horses in training with a class 2 trainer??? might get a few more brits to spend some cash on horseracing.
The assistants would just become satellite yards, and these are already happening, only difference is they all run for Mullins.
It would also bring a different training fee because if your horse is not good enough to be trained by Haggas, and is with one of the assistants, there would be training fee adjustment.
Or following from Dettori's tax issue, could HMRC not introduce a scheme of their own to give tax benefit if people had horses in training with a class 2 trainer??? might get a few more brits to spend some cash on horseracing.
Not going to work cacique, you know that. Nobody is going to put limits, they all play the numbers game, more chance of success. If you're a rich owner you want to put your horse with the best, at least until you find out it's not so good. If you limit Gosden and co to just 50 where are the others going to go? I'll tell you, abroad. Graffard or Fabre, or the U.S. If you have limits they would have to be applied everywhere and that's not going to happen. Free market, jobs at stake.
I like the idea in your last paragraph though.
What annoys me lately is the buying of success. Today at Auteuil there are 2 3yo unraced hurdles, and in April there's the Prix Grandak and Prix Geographie which Lossiemouth won. We just know anything that shows itself will have the agents doing overtime to get them to Mullins. Same as McManus buying The New Lion, I find it irksome really. It was never his horse. Wathnan on the flat doing the same thing.
I like the idea in your last paragraph though.
What annoys me lately is the buying of success. Today at Auteuil there are 2 3yo unraced hurdles, and in April there's the Prix Grandak and Prix Geographie which Lossiemouth won. We just know anything that shows itself will have the agents doing overtime to get them to Mullins. Same as McManus buying The New Lion, I find it irksome really. It was never his horse. Wathnan on the flat doing the same thing.
Talking of Auteuil, get this. Mullins had a runner in the Prix Rush for unraced 3yo, ridden by R Blackmore, owned by his son Patrick. Horse called Dead Cert, fell at the last, crashing fall too, surprised he got up.
Race won by a horse owned by Mrs Magnier, the lady whose name is on just about every gr. 1 winner on the flat these days.
They're everywhere !
Race won by a horse owned by Mrs Magnier, the lady whose name is on just about every gr. 1 winner on the flat these days.
They're everywhere !
For national hunt racing, they need to do something.
Can't have one trainer running 11 in a race and winning it with a 100/1 first time outer.
What races are the English trainers buying their horses for? I struggle to see how Ferguson/Hales/et al can spend 740k on a horse and run him in a handicap...
Or 300 odd on a pointer... you'd get a group horse off the flat for that
Can't have one trainer running 11 in a race and winning it with a 100/1 first time outer.
What races are the English trainers buying their horses for? I struggle to see how Ferguson/Hales/et al can spend 740k on a horse and run him in a handicap...
Or 300 odd on a pointer... you'd get a group horse off the flat for that
on auteuil.. Coolmore are everywhere!! but i couldn't believe that Charles Obrien turned down Walkinthepark because of a failed cert... and yet they still put him in training with Hammond!! you cannot compete against luck like that.
At Cheltenham tatts hoss sale
Harry Derham paid the top price for a
POINTER
£400K
Not sure who the owners is?
Obviously their is munie about
For a 4 year old
Harry Derham paid the top price for a
POINTER
£400K
Not sure who the owners is?
Obviously their is munie about
For a 4 year old
Personnally i do not care how many runners a trainer has but it is a championship grade 1 .........and its dis respectful to use it as a schooling race.........The reason Mullins ran so many is to circumvent the 5 runs to get in a handicap......running them down the field he gets that valuable run over hurdles while protecting their novice status while assessing to go the graded route or handicap route for their 5 y old campaign.................hes essentially using the race as a schooling hurdle......dont know if john jo jnr didnt read the script or what happened there.....doesnt look like it was exspected in any shape or form
East India Dock was rated what on the flat?
OR 89? 90?
Lulamba is a twice raced ex French bred who won an ordinary juvenile at Ascot.
Its not like you are taking on Consti or Galopin is it?
As someone else has stated on a different thread, East India is no world beater. He has been winning his races from the front on bad ground. The Triumph was always going to be a much stiffer task and so it proved.
Of the 11 Mullins ran Blue Lemons, Poniros, Pappano & Too Bossy all were rated higher on the flat than EID. Charlus, Place de la Nation, Lumiere de Large & Larzac had similar profiles in France to the Hendo horse. The other 3 all ran in the G1 at the Dublin Racing Festival.
Factor in that Willie was able to call upon Townend, Flanagan, DE Mullins, Mark Walsh, Rachael, Cobden plus of course Jonjo junior then it surely cant come as all that of a surprise that one of the 11 got their head in front, can it?
OR 89? 90?
Lulamba is a twice raced ex French bred who won an ordinary juvenile at Ascot.
Its not like you are taking on Consti or Galopin is it?
As someone else has stated on a different thread, East India is no world beater. He has been winning his races from the front on bad ground. The Triumph was always going to be a much stiffer task and so it proved.
Of the 11 Mullins ran Blue Lemons, Poniros, Pappano & Too Bossy all were rated higher on the flat than EID. Charlus, Place de la Nation, Lumiere de Large & Larzac had similar profiles in France to the Hendo horse. The other 3 all ran in the G1 at the Dublin Racing Festival.
Factor in that Willie was able to call upon Townend, Flanagan, DE Mullins, Mark Walsh, Rachael, Cobden plus of course Jonjo junior then it surely cant come as all that of a surprise that one of the 11 got their head in front, can it?
i was open to the possibility.......i backed Larzac w/out the two favs @ 16....and backed him to beat the two favs in forcasts thinking if he clicked the forcast could be big............it paid 700 quid..........im not talking through my pocket...........but people are getting sick of mullins bending the rules..........can you tell me that all his 11 runners ran to there best possible placing.......Any of the horses out with the washing could rock up next year and win the county hurdle.........before winning the Martin Pipe in 2021 GDC was 6th at 66/1 in the lacey at DRF.......7 of Mullins horses were being schooled on Friday..........hes not breaking any rules technically but is this respecting a championship race at Chetleham
The fav hit at least three hurdles. That's racing and he still looked like winning comfortably 100 yards out. The jumps game is littered with highly rated flat horses that flop, it's almost irrelevant. Just like the price tag of a horse that hasn't raced under rules, it improves the odds of getting a good one, but guarantees nothing. What it does mean is that there is a contingency plan and can be switched back to the flat if it doesn't work over hurdles.
bustino.. interesting points and this was my point exactly, he's not breaking any rules because there aren't any rules and the fault lies with the BHA as it usually does. It's making a mockery of a gr. 1 race at Cheltenham, along with those false starts which they continue to do nothing about.
Why have a gr. 1 at all if there are no rules. Back in the day it was a free or all with outsiders like Baron Blakeney and Ikdam, but since they brought in grading, it's supposed to be more elitist, yet it seems anything can run in it still. Are they waiting for a Pappano to fall and bring down the favourites?
..but they do what they want and nobody questions it, least of all those on ITV.
Why have a gr. 1 at all if there are no rules. Back in the day it was a free or all with outsiders like Baron Blakeney and Ikdam, but since they brought in grading, it's supposed to be more elitist, yet it seems anything can run in it still. Are they waiting for a Pappano to fall and bring down the favourites?
..but they do what they want and nobody questions it, least of all those on ITV.
just quoted on lucky that Mullins had no idea where his triumph winner was in race and noticed Tony blooms colours coming to last so just assumed he trained it
I can believe that. I only realised the horse belonged to Mr Bloom as it surged forward on the blindside of de Boinville and Lulamba.
Just a master mullings at what he does, I will keep it short
They do it for good prices they learnt from m pipe mullings does it and obrien learnt from mullings
''What annoys me lately is the buying of success. Today at Auteuil there are 2 3yo unraced hurdles, and in April there's the Prix Grandak and Prix Geographie which Lossiemouth won. We just know anything that shows itself will have the agents doing overtime to get them to Mullins. Same as McManus buying The New Lion, I find it irksome really. It was never his horse''
Just highlighting what I wrote on Mar 15, and sorry to bring this thread back up but McManus is at it again, buying success. Anything for a Cheltenham winner.
One of those Auteuil races I mentioned for unraced 3yo, the winner a filly called Manlaga, bought by JP and now with Nicky Henderson. Oh well, Mullins missed out on that one.
Perhaps the French are laughing all the way to the bank, or they may be brassed off about losing so many good horses.
Just highlighting what I wrote on Mar 15, and sorry to bring this thread back up but McManus is at it again, buying success. Anything for a Cheltenham winner.
One of those Auteuil races I mentioned for unraced 3yo, the winner a filly called Manlaga, bought by JP and now with Nicky Henderson. Oh well, Mullins missed out on that one.
Perhaps the French are laughing all the way to the bank, or they may be brassed off about losing so many good horses.
I've just noticed it's been mentioned on another thread by MJK, sorry about that.
I realise he brings a lot to the game here over so many years, huge investments, so I'm not complaining on that score, I just prefer to see these good horses remain in France.
I realise he brings a lot to the game here over so many years, huge investments, so I'm not complaining on that score, I just prefer to see these good horses remain in France.
They shouldn't force people to cash in if they land on a good one.
I think if an offer for a talented and unexposed horse is "life" changing to the owner the purchase by JP cannot be bad. I'm sure JP would have paid a bit more than the asking/perceived price of the horse; JP is buying success. However, I do agree this can only dilute competition and increase the risk of betting antepost given the multi-entries the horse is sure to be given.
Also, any late addition/supplementation could only be afforded by someone like JP; I think even a big spender like Ricci might have baulked on the fee (and accompanying politic) to supplement Inothewayurthinkin (if trained by Ms William) given GDC is Mr Mullins's and the accolade GDC could be bestowed post a consecutive 3rd victory in the Gold Cup.
Also, any late addition/supplementation could only be afforded by someone like JP; I think even a big spender like Ricci might have baulked on the fee (and accompanying politic) to supplement Inothewayurthinkin (if trained by Ms William) given GDC is Mr Mullins's and the accolade GDC could be bestowed post a consecutive 3rd victory in the Gold Cup.
The deeper their pockets are, the more people can get what they want. T'was ever thus. As I alluded to, for a buyer to be successful, there must be a willing seller.
If someone has enough capital to buy a horse and keep it in training, they are pretty comfortable themselves, so no offer for a jump horse it likely to be life changing. However it's deeply ironic, I'd have thought if someone went into racehorse ownership, the dream is to find a good one. And on the rare occasion they actually do, they often sell out. Unless of course the objective of the initial purchase was capital appreciation.
If someone has enough capital to buy a horse and keep it in training, they are pretty comfortable themselves, so no offer for a jump horse it likely to be life changing. However it's deeply ironic, I'd have thought if someone went into racehorse ownership, the dream is to find a good one. And on the rare occasion they actually do, they often sell out. Unless of course the objective of the initial purchase was capital appreciation.
I think the owner of a decent horse would have aspiration of owning more than one horse the next time. If the achievement of the decent horse could be used to achieve the latter eg ownership of 2/3 horses, through selling then I think the owner would more likely sell. Similarly, in property eg turning a single property into a multiple-property ownership.
The analogy doesn't work, the odds of finding a cherished horse initially unraced on a modest budget is about 1000/1.
Look at all the horses JP owns from scratch, and he still has to pull out the cheque book for the good ones
JP is learning even at his age. He bought so many duds - unraced and raced. Take a look at Ricci and the Wylies. The amount the former spends annually buying and keeping horses in-training would be greater than what he's received for selling Vauban (just over £1m) to race in Australia.
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