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No one can get a bet on, the exchanges have shrunk, surely the time has come to shake racing up ?
No one can get a bet on, the exchanges have shrunk, surely the time has come to shake racing up ?
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They can set individual limits on any shops machines, so 20 minutes down the road the odds will probably be the original odds, shortend only in that shop or local shops but not country wide.
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Obscure markets will he very low
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That's been noticed on many occasions Tom.
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Yes sorry was just answering Glasgows post.
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It will be machines only very soon, with no OTC bets.
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Yes sorry was just confirming it's been clocked and benefits in placing bets simultaneously is a real option.
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They take more on the betting terminals than OTC or fobts. Easy to monitor, can add facial recognition, cameras already fitted to them,
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"Obscure markets will he very low"
It actually varies hugely. I've had obscure markets limit be from £5 (£100 at 1/20) to £5k (£100 at 50/1) |
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Yes GC that was probably the wrong wording, they can be but I've also saw 4 figure bets on obscure football matches laid,
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The 1/20 was actually no 9 dart finish in each separate early sessions of the WDC. (I made it 1/40) I was just recycling winning bets. Wouldn't go there normally to put cash in a machine to bet 1/20.
After the 3rd or 4th session they cut it to 1/33 or 1/40. Just so happened there was a 9 dart finish on night 3 or 4 by Christian Kist of all people. Lucky escape for me  . I do remember receiving a text from a friend thinking I've done my bollox. |
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 yes nothing is easy, there is always someone waiting in the background to boot your arris lol You have to work or stress for even free money |
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Yes sorry was just answering Glasgows post.
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The general shops (Hills and Lads do their own prices) take 10bet prices, so you can check the odds there. I've taken so many markets off the general machines for good. Must have taken more off than anyone else.
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CLYDEBANK2906 Mar 25 15:53
Quite an obscure market and they were anonymous shop bets in shop machines, so awful limits and long odds on second and third bets were cut just due to my bets) This wasn't a bet that was available on the exchange or in Asia. You been betting on that bikini beach volleyball again CB...?  |
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That's great CB29 (for you) but no doubt they were all minor/obscure markets - and we're kind of getting away from the point.
The reality (sadly)is now that online bookmakers have got themselves a mass of high margin, low cost, high volume, short duration, products they just don't need to participate in horse racing which by comparison is very labour intensive, very high cost, bound by time, much lower margin, much more volatile, etc, etc. Add in all the new demographics (young people, women, etc) that they can "attract" to their shiny new "products" and then the availability of them (which is absolutely anywhere, absolutely anytime, to almost anybody) - and you don't need to be a rocket scientist to understand that racing is already well on it's way (outside of a couple of Festivals) to dying out as a mainstream betting medium sooner rather than later. That wouldn't really bother me now (certainly not to the extent that it really would have bothered me 20 or 30 years ago) - but for the people that it does still bother - they need to get their head out of their 4rses and do something pretty radical, pretty quickly. I think (as suggested by the OP) some version of the Australian approach is about the only option taht could work - i.e. Government intervention that dictates, if you want the very lazy/easy money (gaming) that can be made from your operating license you also need to do a bit of work to save some heritage and the almost dead sport that the foundations of your "industry" were built upon. If you leave it to "free markets" to find a solution or a load of old/out of touch duffers with double-barrelled sir- names - well, you might as well turn the lights off now. That's the harsh reality. The bookmakers have destroyed betting (in favour of gaming) and from a purely commercial stand-point you can't blame them - they've been very ably assisted by a lot of over privileged, in-fighting, idiots that have refused to collectively adapt or embrace progress/technology. |
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To 1st time poster and ramruna and any others who say, well what happens if 2,000 people all want to back any one horse and the bookie will go bust etc..
Sorry but no, you are missing the point. The bookie will have to make a book. Cut the price if they don't want their liabilities mounting up and then push something else out as a result. Remember , there are tons of bookies out there so if their prices aren't competitive they won't get any business. No one said anything about them having to lay the same odds to 5,000 different people, but if they advertise a price they must take a bet to lose 1k or 2k. If they're not prepared to then they should be stripped of their licence , but there is plenty of low hanging fruit for them to still take advantage of but it can't just be a one way street where they abuse degenerate addicts on fobts without having to take physical bets. I go on course and speak to real bookies and they all tell me to a man , that they are happy to stand a bet. So why should the high street bookmakers be allowed to duck taking money on horse racing ? They shouldn't. . |
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you can already get any price you want for vast MAJ of fields,ain't that the problembookmakers cant get enough horses in the book,to many races revolving around small % of the runners,books carried out on stretchers at WinCo today
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if you believe that Knott fella tales they barely take enough for a cup of of tea all round and that's in winning races
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stand a bet to whatever the machine stands
, for someone who wants to stand a bet why do they spend 90% of their time huddled around a betfair screen ? |
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On-course and online = two completely different beasts imo.
On course are flogging a dead horse 90% of all meetings. Whereas Online are trying to kill off a horse that is already on it's last legs. For the squeamish - no actual horses were harmed or killed during the construction of this ^ post. I'd guess realistically neither can make an actual book - even though the internet should have made it easier to do so on-line. In reality both are probably dependent on results (on a race by race or daily basis) i.e. Favs getting beat - but over any length of time - the over-round will enable them both to win in the long term. In dread to think what the overheads must now be (on-course) as a % of turnover. Anyway - the point is, they are two completely different subjects (imo). |
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1st tp, pt 2 pts no machine, they all happy to take one and they tell me the same under rules as well. Just need to take a few minutes and have a chat with them and ask.
Some were saying the ring seems to be picking up as more are going on course to punt again because of the high street knock backs. |
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well if you read Knott's blogs their not betting on their 2 joints on course to any numbers, tea money race after race
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The Management
06 Mar 25 10:39 Joined: 27 Dec 00 | Topic/replies: 11,124 | Blogger: The Management's blog I agree with the sentiment oneten but I think it's now too late. While all the disparate factions within racing have been pursuing their own self-interests (rather than uniting together) - "bookmakers" have simply moved on, they've exploited technology, they've embraced new markets and created new products. Racing has been left behind - outside of a couple of festival meetings, it's no longer the bread and butter product for bookmakers and it's not even their preferred "gateway" product anymore. Put simply they just don't need racing anymore. They've got products that are much more popular, that also happen to be cheaper to provide and that return a much higher margin for them. In a nutshell racing is now an analogue product and the bookmakers have long since embraced/exploited the digital age. Spot on TM. How many bingo/arcades advertisments do you see on TV nowadays? All run by thieves who do not take bets. A complete shambles and it's going to get worse as more parasites clock on. As for a bookie going into the rails, there has to be jurastiction for that with a minimum of at least 20k cash. Say Cheltenham for example, yes, they do try their best to make a book but what if the get cleaned out after the first two races.....what then? Yes, they can borrow from others or use their cheque book but at the end of the day it will all be T0TE related....as in many countries. |
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Yes, a tote monopoly would be the other option that could possibly save racing and maybe that is where it will end up when things get really desperate - but obviously that is only a solution for saving the sport and it's not really a solution for people that want to bet on the sport.
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Plenty betting goes on in the pub I venture into now and then..
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Yes Stewarty TM is bang on the money with that one.
The sport we love is literally driving people away with its lack of nous / inability to solve any of its multiple issues. Sort out the bookies / betting and everything else follows. Prize money up, best horses wouldn't be sold to race abroad, owners can back their own horses, normal people can enjoy a bet. Reduce the bloated calendar , which again is bookie driven , the irony is they want increased number of meetings yet won't take a bet.. |
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oneten -- it is you who are missing the point when you say: "No one said anything about them having to lay the same odds to 5,000 different people, but if they advertise a price they must take a bet to lose 1k or 2k."
OK, let us say they take that bet from the first punter and then cut the price, as you say they can. Well then, from the point of view of the other 4,999 punters, the bookie has refused to honour the price. So all this guarantee has achieved is the difference between 5,000 disgruntled punters and 4,999 disgruntled punters. What's the point of that? And remember this is a virtual queue over the internet. The 5,000 punters are unaware of each other's presence as they sit at home clicking the web page. It is not like on course where there is a physical queue of punters who can see a bet being struck before the price is rubbed off. If anything the guarantee has made things worse. Before, it was the cowardly bookie ducking the bets, but with the guarantee, now it is a dishonest bookie refusing to follow the rules (or that is how it looks to the 4,999 even if the first guy knows they did). |
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£2,000 ??
Are you having a laugh? It would be great if they laid you odds to £20. The worst is that they let you have £10 to 83p but leave the price up - that's the thing that should be illegal. If the price is still on Oddschecker after I've had my 83p I should be allowed another 83p and another and another. It would be less irksome if they just closed the account and sent me my money, but they don't do that because they are still hoping I'll get rat-arsed some night and go on tilt in the casino. |
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Ramruna, sorry but no, you are missing the point .
The point being the same as what happens now when a price is advertised and if it shortens, you miss out , are you disgruntled ? No, it's a fact of life , when making a book, prices fluctuate. The whole point of a minimum bet rule is that all bets are accommodated, whether they like it or not. I fail to see what you don't understand about that ? Bookies adjust their odds the same as they do over here. Every punter backing in a race don't all back the same horse so the bookie makes a book.. All punters in Australia are accommodated to win and it works absolutely fine. Some punters will have 10 or 15 accounts and get the same bet matched across all their accounts . It's tried and tested and proven to work, so your argument holds no water, sorry. Punters don't all want to back the same horse, it's why it's called bookmaking. It's down to the bookies to manage the odds correctly . |
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Spot on PTB - it's not about the price or managing a book - the price doesn't move - it's punter specific - they don't want business from certain people at the price they advertise but are happy to lay the price to others with different betting profiles - that's the key point - and it's killing the sport.
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Yep. Any other seller is expected to honour the prices in their adverts.
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The bookies should call themselves forensic turf accountants (fta); they are NOT horseracing bet acceptors or facilitators. Most are peddlers of gaming "crack cocaine" online and in the high street.
I'd challenge the bookies to dispute my assertion/statement legally on the above. |
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OWNERS SHOULD BE ALLOWED A BET ON THEIR OWN HORSES ?
THEY CAN they are most of them laying their horses to lose |