Lossiemouth V Sir Gino....

I cannot see any good reason to scrap the mare's allowance - looks about fair and right to me.
Since Dawn Run we've had I think 3 mares winning the Champion Hurdle and no mare since has won the Gold Cup so why would they scrap it now?

The mares allowance is an overhang from the days mares didn’t really race or have a race schedule.
Now there’s a full mares program,this allowance isn’t needed to entice trainers,owners into keeping them in training.

Either the mares good enough or it isn’t.its a bit of a cheat if they win a big race because of the allowance.

If you think your mare is good enough you don’t need the allowance,if you don’t think it’s good enough,then run in mares races.but it’s unfair on the males who miss a chance to win a champion hurdle,gold cup.

It’s basically saying,the USA women’s football team can enter the male World Cup,but they get 2 goals start in every game.

It’s ironic,they’ve stopped the turners forcing the novices to pick,2m,3m.
But the mares can pick and choose what to do.

It should be scrap. Horses are different to humans eg they'd run to the same potential as their male counterparts as an adult. No weight concession is necessary; concession is trainer/owner benefit - not horseracing.

Totally agree comingupthehill.

Would you seriously take evens US womens team with 2 goal start v any mens team?

Fillys on the flat have been competing against colts and geldings forever. getting an allowance. I cannot understand why it was only in the 1980s that it came in to jumps racing.

On the gold cup,keep the allowance.

Surely the object of the gold cup is to find the best staying chaser that year.

Why not have a 2lb allowance for Lucinda Russell’s horses,because they ve travelled from Scotland,or 2lb extra allowance if trained by Willie Mullins,cos he’s too good at training.

Why didn’t connygree,get an allowance for being a novice,like 3 yr olds do on the flat,against the older horses.

Maybe no allowance in grade 1 s,but allowance in lesser grades,

The fillies allowance exsists to encourage people training them entering them..

That’s all changed now in the modern world,where males and females seen as equals.

Seperate options for mares.so the inducement is not needed.

It’s actually saying.

Women are useless so we need to give them a help to be any good,(now all us blokes know this,but you just can’t say it these days).so the logical outcome is no allowance.

Horse can lose a race cos of a 10th whip,but a mare can be gifted a gold cup for 7lb.

3 year olds are not fully mature so are given a weight for age allowance which has proven, over 2 centuries to be fair.

Since jumps mares allownce was introduced 40 odd years ago, the only 4 mares have managed to win a Champion Hurdle or Gold Cup..... Dawn Run, Annie Power, Epatante and Honeysuckle, and yet whenever a good mare comes along people start screaming about the unfairness of the mares allowance.

Novice chasers.

Surely they have a case for an allowance then based on your logic.

It’s either the best horse or not,can’t shoe horn any excuse to get less weight to equal it up.

Claimers can’t claim allowance for riding,why not if mares can get an allowance.

On the USA football ,give them a 7 goal start then.

Willie will separate Lossiemouth and Stateman imo.

Willie has just said they wont meet before Cheltenham.

They wont meet at Cheltenham - if they both stay sound then same festival targets as last time. Guaranteed

No way on Earth will Lossiemouth skip The Champion Hurdle.

How can you make a comparison between a novice chaser and a 3 year old needing a weight allowance??

Beat 3 milers  over 2m4 in a race that was run @ a crawl. Learnt nothingmore about Lossiemouth than yer didnt already know before the  race.  Sir Gino impressed me just as much. Last Jan @ Cheltenham Gino was quicker overall over Cheltenham course & distance plus quicker up the hill than Lossie.

To highlight just how slow this race was run at, the novices the day before went 55 yards further in a 25 second quicker time on ground described as the same.

Lossiemouth ran a slow time, recorded a low speed figure and out sprinted a stayer who prefers soft ground.

The 152 rated Sir Gino beat the 143 rated runner up by 8L, with another 4L back to the 136 rated horse un 3rd.

Both Lossiemouth and Sir Gino are open to improvement,  but neither did anything on the weekend to warrant the reaction in the antepost market.

but neither did anything on the weekend to warrant the reaction in the antepost market.

Not in a Champion Hurdle with the type of horse that warrants a position in the race it doesn't, but with Constitution Hill on the missing list, the quality is thin to non existent so those type of performances carry more weight than they really should.

For crying out loud are you guys blind?.....Anybody that was not impressed by that ffs.

I am talking about Lossiemouth.

This is how i see it....No way will Constitution Hill ever come back to the Brilliant Horse that we have seen it just wont happen and that is a shame.For me Lossiemouth is good thing for the Champion Hurdle.

And i will tell you another thing Townend will be jumping ship as quick as a flash if he has to choose between Stateman and Lossiemouth.

She was impressive to the eye, but won a 2F sprint against stayers.

Everyone saw her win hard held so there is little point in jumping on the band wagon. As at the prices there is little upsides to having her onside at the moment.

Beating 3 milers in a 3 furlong sprint Acey. Impressive yep. But what did you expect ???   Her to struggle. She did what was expected of her. Clearly outspeeded 3 mile hurdlers in a 3 furlong dash. If wasnt aware of this before the event in the words of the O.P."You really should not be betting on Horses"

Gino,arkle
Lossiemouth,mares
Hill,champion

200/1 treble CUTH. 50/1 all 3 run in stated race.

I will say this one more time only.....Hell will freeze over before Lossiemouth goes for The Mares Hurdle.

The Trainer and Owner both say Champion Hurdle so please keep up guys.

Hard to be impressed by the mare doing what was expected and less so when seeing the actual time of the "race". Sir Gino on the other hand could have easily put more distance back to his rivals and the time was fast which for a 4 year old entering his second season and against older opposition was visually and factually more solid imo for meeting in a 2 mile race?

Offer of even money match still stands in the CH acey, the alternative is loser shows their bare backside in Harrods window, no worries btw as anyone looking would think it was Shafter grinning at them!!!

Her 2m form is not Champion Hurdle material. Also, she was beaten when in traffic against 2milers. And, she only won The Triumph. All in all 2/1 is a crazy price. As such, she's not for me.

I'm waiting and hoping for an atonement from either Constitution Hill or State Man. The former has been backed today which is seldom a good sign for a bookie stable; I may even put Sir Gino before Lossiemouth.

I wouldnt pay any attention to Willy Mullins' statements in December regarding running plans for next March.

He is the ultimate creature of habit. Last year Lossiemouth ran in and won the Mares hurdle and State Man won the Champion so assuming they both stay injury-free until March then it would be completely out of character for Mullins to have them clash, leaving a Mares Hurdle behind for someone else to hoover up.

Lossiemouth will only run in the Champ Hurdle if Stateman gets injured or he shows a dramatic loss of form.

Mullins every year says,win just happy to win any race at chelt.

Loads of his mares never ran in champion.annie only did cos of its fall.plus stateman aswell.

Gino beat nowt,wasn’t a good a run as people think.plus if hill runs,why run it in champion.

Was told 3 years ago by a mate who gets the best info from Mullins yard,that stateman was is best novice,then told 2 years ago Lossiemouth was is best,but defo going mares.

Comingupthebrae, you must have been deeper in than Ruby? If Sir Gino beat nothing in context what did the Mare achieve IYO. Sir Gino ran a fast time in relation to the track and against opposition that cab be measured, could have won quicker and further.

The mare won a farce of a race against virtual trees at the trip in a time that a 130 rated handicapper could have smashed with ease whether a 2 miler or 2 and 1/2, in other words she proved nothing compared with Sir Gino proving as a 4 year old that his talent is latent.

Same offer to you, an even money match in the Champion Hurdle, you make the stake? It is a bet whether Constitution turns up or not as long as SG and the mare line up?

Gino beat a horse that won a hcp off 129 lto.

The novice race before was quicker compared to standard than Gino.

Lossie is running in Champion Hurdle with or without State man. Ricci told me in Jan after bought him a drink at Cheltenham hotel and then repeated at Sun Cheltenham 2024 preview with 400 people, Nick luck and Matt Chapman. Obviously can change his mind but Mullins has always said going Champion Hurdle this year as well. It’s only people on here who are trying to double guess the plans.
There is 11/2 on Mares available on here that’s not being taken.

have the even money match bet then comminginyourpants? A bet to nothing IYO, name the stake?

It’s hard enough backing winners that run in races,without trying to back them in races they might not run in.so I ll duck the bet.

Trying to 2nd guess races Mullins runs his horses in,is hard.but he does seem to run his best mate in the mares race.

Limini
Benny
Quevega
Annie before fall
To name a few.

Whenever he’s been pushed on running a good mare in the champion,he’s said many times,we are happy to win any race at chelt,so we ll run them in a race they have the best chance of winning.

Given it looks like they think stateman is better than Lossiemouth,would they take on hill if all seems well with him.

Nothing to duck, no bet if they both do not line up, giving you evens on a 7/4 against a 4/1 shot, no need either to win?

If State Man is regressing and the only viable sub is Lossiemouth then I'd think most likely she'll be heading for the Champion Hurdle. The ownership plays a part too eg JP (sporting/has advisers) will want to go for the most prestigious race eg Fact To File/Spillane's Tower, etc, despite multi runners from the same trainer; Mr Ricci leaves it all to his trainer esp Mr Mullins; Mr Wylie was the same in the past.

Nevertheless, most of all I'd like to see Constitution Hill after winning his next race running against State Man, Sir Gion and Lossiemouth.

CUTH FYI Annie was supplemented into CH after Faugheen suffered a season ending injury HTH

Not a day goes by when impossible 123 confirms himself as the village idiot of the forum.
Mr Ricci leaves it all to his trainer…….give me strength!

Fashioning an argument to enhance her position at the head of the CH market on what she did on Sunday is completely pointless, the crawliest of crawls over 20F against stayers, the novices went further and much quicker the day before and she received weight to boot.! and she STILL hasn't ever raced a proper 2 miler, she's visually very impressive and might be the real deal but she's never in all her races had to face anything resembling a champion hurdle horse but she's priced up as if she has, impressive yes, but so was Laurina.

Some of your posts are unbelievable Duffy over the year's as if you know everything.
How can you relate laurina with Lossiemouth when laurina was basically kept in mares company b4 CH.
Lossiemouth has won 6/9 outside mares company and is rated higher than laurina at this stage,overall she's 9/10 which should read 10/10.
I wouldn't be laying her too quick.

Bentring, I don't mean them to sound that way, and if they do then that's all on me so apologies, just opinions and mostly wrong but opinions all the same, the point on Laurina is that she went into the CH with a lot of hype before she'd raced a proper 2 miler and I believed in her and had backed her and that might be why I've been trying to get Lossie beat.

Anyway I'm going to have to think about how I come across on here because it upsets me if I am coming across as a self appointed know all because I don't like that and you irish and sonko can't all be wrong

'duffy', I'd not worry about it. Every opinion is welcome; nailing one's colour to the mast is worth 10x sitting on the fence. If backed with money, it's even more definitive and potent. Good luck!

Duffy who's sonko?
Keep posting as you post a he'll of a lot more than I do.
I've history with laurina £50 @ 20's a/p laid in running to win £280 profit.
Just think Lossiemouth has more boot and haven't a bean on it (market/race too cloudy).
My post was not a dig just wish you could see a probable winner( but what happened in past isn't guaranteed in future) as I think it may win.
I tried posting the wingnut below your post was looking for an imaginary friend b4 I started writing a previous(long) post which I lost(dodgy tablet)and can't be bothered writing it all over again.
Best wishes

Impossible read back post of 15:58 describes you perfectly and don't say you can't see this as you last post says it all

Cheers Bentring and cheers imp

I can see Lossie as a potential winner 100%, if they both get there, as a SG fan I would be scared to death of her stalking in behind in case she can deliver that turn of foot at that level, what I was meaning before is that both those races at the weekend, although with two impressive winners, both races could be picked at and I've just felt that SG has received a lopsided amount of it compared to Lossie, as I've backed SG I'm probably being over protective

Did anyone learn anything about Lossiemouth they didnt know before Sunday???

I won't back anything until the day

How good was Lossiemouth over 2m? What did she beat over 2m? Could she show the same acceleration against genuine Gp 1 protagonists over 2m eg Sir Gino, State Man (if atoning for recent disappointment) or Constitution Hill (if winning his next race)?

Lossiemouth was visually impressive last time however, her opponents were not Gp 1 two milers.

Though I agree with some people regarding her victory on the weekend did not tell us anything new about Lossiemouth.
I do not get your point regarding will she be good enough at 2 miles, when her attributes are a strong traveller and a sharp turn of foot.

Neither Lossiemouth nor Sir Gino did anything more than you would expect them to last weekend. With Mystical Power running no race at all the Fighting Fifth became a non event - the rest of the runners would be lapped in the Champion Hurdle if Constitution and State Man turn up. It they do turn up it will take a 170+ performance to win at Cheltenham and I can't see Lossiemouth (with the allowance) or Sir Gino as capable of doing that.

Neither has Stateman. Perhaps early 160’s best ever run there. Constitution is the only one proven at the moment but both Lossie and Gino have the possibility.

the donallys have another unbeaten could be anything who is entered in the champion hurdle 3 from 3 two in france and hacked up on debut for willie on sunday  in the graded hurdle ,not a bet at the moment as there are lots of options   but willie  and paul townend were  impressed by all accounts  willie saying he is something special , one to keep an eye on imo the international on trials day could be the next target..........  anzadam looks a top notcher .

won the grade 3 n grade 3 hurdle on saturday  at fairyhouse.^^^

Foyles  Willie said he looks something special not he is. So is that a judgement on appearance??:
"He looks something special. I couldn't get him out last season, his form in France was good. I didn't know what was going to happen on Saturday to be honest, and was very pleasantly surprised with what he did.

Later he stated very pleasantly surprised  , which he wouldnt have been if he thought he was something special??

That said on strict interpretations beating Kala Conti 6 lengths comfortably ranks him higher than Sir Gino and triumph winner Majborough thro Kargese.

Would Donelly run in the Champion??

Would Donelly run  3 in the Champion??

no he wont run 3 i wasnt saying this will run in or win the champion hurdle the water is too clouded for even thinking about an ante post bet atm just highlighting a possible dark horse .

Well he is certainly that foyles. Be interesting next targets .Willie talking International (Bula) in Jan .So interesting where Sir GIno would go. No doubt Xmas hurdle if C.Hill doesnt show, but cant see Nicky running C.H v S.G until Champion.

I am sure most of us would like to see a healthy and fit CH return with all his ability intact and if that was the case then all the debate between the mare and Sir Gino would probably be moot?


Failing that then all the debate is what makes the sport so compelling is it not?

I am firmly onside with Sir G at this time despite the mares ability and allowance btw.

I think even if State Man is beaten again I do not think Hendo will run Constitution Hill against Sir Gino until March at Cheltenham. However,I think the Donnellys will run both Sir Gino and State Man against Lossiemouth if Constitution Hill is an absentee; Constitution Hill might have another gallop (home or away) with Sir Gino.

Can somebody please have a word with the Donnelly's it would be good to know what they are thinkin....I thought Nick Luck would have been on the case by now.

'acey', follow the money. State Man is 4/6 for the December Hurdle; Sir Gino will be kept in England; Sir Gino and Constitution Hill will not meet until Cheltenham if at all. I think the Irish contingent will stay in Ireland except Fact Or File (King George for prize money) perhaps, and English ones in England.

You have to laugh at Duffy, total bolleaux merchant...this was him slagging Lossiemouth two years ago ...

duffy04 Dec 22 19:20Joined: 28 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 28,795 | Blogger: duffy's blog
I'll be treating the Lossiemouth form as it stands with a deal of caution, they went very steady, miles behind the admittedly better grade 1 hurdlers and more experienced handicappers later in the card, the handicap was won in a similar time by a 123 horse carrying 10lbs more, what ever way you slice it its miles off the 150 he'd eventually have to get to to win a Triumph..

duffy
Date Joined: 28 Mar 03
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31 Dec 22 20:39Joined: 28 Mar 03 | Topic/replies: 28,795 | Blogger: duffy's blog
Lossiemouths race was run very slowly once again, slower than Dark Raven's and quite a bit slower run than the novice handicappers later,but, once again she was the fastest horse,all things being equal though the Triumph will be a much stiffer test, she may well be up to it but she's getting hammered in the market without us having seen if she could cope with a stamina test on quick ground that the Triumph is likely to be.

duffy • January 2, 2023 4:29 PM GMT
"I've not conducted a highly scientific experiment but it's quite possible to run a couple races side by side pretty accurately in order to see how they compare and Lossiemouth's two wins have been run slower than other races on the same day.
Yes she might have more up her sleeve and be laden with stamina but my point is that the market has reacted to her easy wins which she gained by injecting pace at the end of a couple of slow run races whereas the Triumph is likely to be a stamina test on quicker ground that will be something completely new....."

Since then .....

01Dec24 Fai 20f Yielding 4y+ H(120K)11-3[4/7Fav]  1st of 4, 3.75L to Teahupoo  P Townend   Rated 156     1/14/7Fav
04May24 Pun 21f Soft 4y+ H(125K)11-7[2/11Fav]  1st of 5, 7L to Gala Marceau    P Townend   Rated 155     2/11Fav
12Mar24 Che 20f Heavy 4y+ H(120K)11-5[8/13Fav]1st of 11, 3L to Telmesomethinggirl P TownendRated 155  8/13Fav
27Jan24 Che 17f Good to Soft 4y+ H(125K)11-0[4/7Fav]1st of 5, 9.5L to Love Envoi  P TownendRated 147  4/7Fav
29Apr23 Pun 16f Good to Yielding 4y H(125K)10-7[1/2Fav]1st of 8, 1.5L to Zarak The Brave P TownendRated 141  1/2Fav
17Mar23 Che 17f Soft 4y H(139K)10-9[11/8Fav]sr1st of 15, 2.25L to Gala Marceau   P Townend    Rated 142

Thats not a rating of 156 is it ?

I still expect WPM to keep them apart but if I'm wrong I think Lossiemouth would beat Stateman in a duel right now as I think the defeat by Brighterdaysahead indicates a regression/stagnation for Stateman,the man with the biggest headache though in March will be PT on which one to get off.

I think Stateman will get beaten again by Brighterdays ahead but who will ride her?....Mark Walsh would be my choice failing that i would fly Cobden over.

Although Ewing will probably ride as he has Won on her.

irish,

I'll take the FACT that ypu've trawled back 2 years to retrieve my posts as a compliment

By the way how is your Gaelic Warrior is a stayer theory (Willie knows it, Patrick knows it, Ruby knows it), coming along.

Champion Chase campaign confirmed

Football , the games, been good to me....David Brent eat your heart out

Lossiemouth could be the real deal but all those points still stand, she's not beat a decent 2 miler ever, she just beat Beacon Edge by 8 lengths receiving weight in a crawl, that does not support a champion hurdle claim.

Say that you think that she'll win the champion hurdle because you just think it and that you think that wicked turn of foot that she has shown in lesser company will be there in better company, and say that you're just blown away by her, but don't say that you have built your argument on solid form lines from  what she has actually achieved.

She looks awesome, I THINK SHE LOOKS AWESOME, but I realize that she still hasn't done it at the highest level and doesn't support her price at the head of the market.

Fly Cobden over never heard so much shoite in my life you do sprout some

its all about opinions guys and we are all entitled to voice em !

What is wrong with trying to oppose a short priced favourite 4 months before the race.
There is no upsides to backing a horse that everyone has seen put up an eye-catching performance.
Like Foyles says, it's all about opinions.
Which should be encouraged on a public forum.

Nicky says CH is 100%, get laying folks.

I've CH in the finality of a treble. I'm holding my breath he gets there let alone winning. Lossiemouth is neither Annie Power nor Honeysuckle. She's unproven at top level over 2m yet 2/1f. Absolute madness!

Hendo is waffling again. This time it's about Sir Gino on whether he stays hurdling or goes chasing in his next race; if chasing he'd be disadvantaged as he'd no longer be classified as a novice. The conundrum is Constitution Hill.

I find it hard to believe you can get any more stupid impossible but you keep defying me, why would Sir Gino not be a novice if going chasing IYO?

Because he schooled over some fences at home.

I believe you lose your novice status with immediate effect.

Nice fishing, brandy!

Duffy

you talk absolute Bolleaux

"she has not beaten a decent two miler ever"

.... she beat the winner of the richest hurdle race over two miles in Europe you dipstick

Galway Result   Thu, 3rd Aug, 2023

Going - N.H.: Good to yielding, good in places. Flat: Yielding. Fine
.

5.052m. 11yds. 4-y-o plus19 Ran
Guinness Galway H´dle H´cap (Grade 3) of €270,000.00 4-y-o plus

1st


Zarak The Brave (FR) 4, b g 11-5 (Simon Munir

W P MullinsP Townend






.

Bloody hell, Irish.
I know you like to bang on about the Galway Hurdle and it's prize money, but trying to squeeze that in as a form line is laughable.

Zarak the brave What a numpty Irish is.

Lossie had to work for it that day too receiving weight, but I don't think it's all about Zarak The Brave per se, it's probably more to do with Galway, that as we know has been scientifically proven to be the centre of the universe

Wrong  duffy   CHELTENHAM  is

willie and Gordon get their horses educated there

At galway that is .....

then they go to Cheltenham and educate the British

Hibore

Hows your horse ownership going ????? 

Duffy and Hibore .....


."...... and the winner of the biggest pot of a European handicap is not a decent two miler hurdler "

You would not know a decent two mile hurdler if it sh4t on your doorstep

Lossiemouth could be crossing sword against Constitution HIll at Kempton. She's ducking a duel against State Man at Leopardstown over the X'mas period.

Massive difference between Kempton and CHeltenham

impossible123
You have been proved an idiot on the KING GEORGE thread, so please refrain from infiltrating rubbish on here.
Eg, What is Leopardstown like.
You are an imbecile.

"She is ducking a duel with State Man"

Apparently Lossiemouth makes her own entries now

comingupthehill • December 2, 2024 5:07 PM GMT
Gino,arkle
Lossiemouth,mares
Hill,champion

200/1 at time of post,all odds on now,I hope someone got on